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Bigfoot Forums > Bigfoot/Sasquatch Discussion > Sightings & Encounters > Western, including Pacific Northwest
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damndirtyape
I recently paid a visit to John Green, up in Harrison Hotsprings, BC, and he asked me to post some pictures that may never have been seen before of all the tracks found on or between Onion Mt. and Blue Creek Mt. back in 1967. Both Rene Dahinden and John were photographers here, but you can also see the rest of the group has cameras also. These are of course some of the tracks that people have claimed Ray Wallace made. I will point out some interesting features as I go in some of them but first a map showing both mountains and their proximity to Bluff Creek and Notice Creek.
damndirtyape
Here the group prepares their cameras before walking along the dirt roads to look for tracks. Don Abbott is the man in a "T" shirt on the right.
ontheloose
hey cool, great pics, thank you for posting them............. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
damndirtyape
John had called for Don Abbott to come down (he worked at a museum in BC) to the area after many tracks had been found. Don thought up an idea of trying to remove a whole track from the ground with a watered down wood glue concoction. It never hardened though.
socaldave
damndirtyape,
Thanks so much for posting those vintage pictures. It's kinda like seeing old pictures of the first super bowl! Everything seemed so much more simple and primitive almost 40 years ago
damndirtyape
They used a paint brush to drip the liquid into the track and hoped it would solidify the dirt it was made in.
damndirtyape
Don picked out what he thought was a good canidate for extraction. Many of the tracks were right along the side of the road... but they didn't stay there long.
Maheekat
I like the way film looks! thanks thumbup.gif
damndirtyape
I love this picture.

Don, after gluing the track proceded to dig all around it and was going to use a cookie sheet to close off the bottom.
damndirtyape
The experiment didn't work out unfortunately. But destroying one or two tracks out of hundreds didn't faze them.
damndirtyape
This is what the area looked like. The group also brought down a track dog, but no scent was picked up.
damndirtyape
Here we see a trackway along the side of the road without fresh tire tracks nearby.
damndirtyape
This one has been seen before. John Green measuring the step length.
damndirtyape
Here Don is applying a surface fixing agent (like hair spray or lacquer). This arrests movement of the loose soil particles prior to casting.
damndirtyape
Here, Don is photographing a track. Most of the other pictures the group took up on this mountain have never surfaced.
damndirtyape
I love old Black and White polaroids!

Here we have two different size and shaped tracks.
damndirtyape
The group found many overlapping tracks of different sizes up there.
damndirtyape
The stark lighting angles up on the ridge really showed the tracks off in relief. Hopefully I am maintaining the picture quality yet sizing the images properly for most people's monitors.
GrandCherokee
This is all too cool for words.....!!! thumbup.gif
damndirtyape
One of the members checking out the step length with his own. Note the rifle stock in the lower left hand corner. Obviously these guys thought they were near to solving the mystery.
damndirtyape
Most, if not all of the tracks showed natural looking soles in the tracks... they were not dug out.
damndirtyape
There was movement in the toes, some at different depths, others lifted from the surface. The tracks were found in many different types of soil as well. Rocky, dusty, sandy, muddy, duffy...etc.
damndirtyape
This is an interesting picture. The rocks look like they were slowly pushed down with great weight. The track edge is already deteriorating. These guys must have been only a few hours behind what made these.

Oooops... some wild oats just fell out of my pocket. More tomorrow night folks. Hope your enjoying them as much as I am.
cut4sign
First of all, I've never met John Green but would like to some day because I feel he's an intelligent person and has some credible information on BF. However, am I the only one who sees these as a match?
cut4sign
By the way, this is where I got the comparison from.
billgreen2005bigfoot
hi everyone those are wonderful sasquatch footprints please keep me updated bill green ct sasquatch researcher..
rhinohunter
DDA,
i luv you man. biggrin.gif
This is good stuff.
julio12
Great pictures.How come in the row of foot prints this creature foot prints are flat footed were there any pictures of a heel to toe foot print?It just seems like it lifted its whole leg straight up and planted its foot flat into the ground .When I walk or anyone walks there is alway a deeper indentation of the toes when one steps off while the same time there is a deep heel indentation when you place you next foot down.On these tracks there is an evenly stepped foot print with a even depth and that heel to toe rotation when one walks.
Mark A
misfitguy
Good question, Mark. When you watch the Patty film, notice she walks with her knees bent. Difficult for us to do, but try it. You walk much more flatfooted than if we extend our leg as we push off. Well, anyway, that is how I see it.
cut4sign
Here is another example of what I was trying to show. Think of this wood sandal being lifted right out of this print. Note the distinct cut or carving in the Ball of the sandal. Everytime I see that, I think of Wallace's Sandals. I may be wrong because I wasn't there to compare it in person but it's interesting.

Cut4sign
5towz2
Or look at it the other way around, c4s - where do you think Wallace got his idea to make the sandals look like that? new_whistle.gif
cut4sign
For those of you who don't know me, believe it or not, I'm not trying to be a skeptic. I'm just trying to keep it down to earth and rule out humans first. I want to be able to track one of these things more then ever. Mostly so I can prove to myself that they exist.... but as soon as I find it to be human or another animal, I'll stop the tracking or continue to follow it till I find out who did the hoax.

When I come onto this sight and post some photo's that I truly believe are Bigfoot, then you can be sure I have done everything I can to rule out everything else!

In my opinion, we all should be doing that. It makes us look much more credible then the people who talk to a Garlic breathed Fox

Cut4sign
julio12
cut4sign
I see the resemblance , not actualy being there gives us a disadvantage.They look to staged.
Mick
I tried to walk like what the creature did in the Peterson film and found that it is hard but that there still was a heel to toe rotation.These creatures have to have some strong thighs just to be able to support its own weight as it steps.I still can not see the advantage as to why a creature would high step through the woods.There has to be a reason why they step high and leave a flat foot impression and for a creature that supports alot of weight you figure that the foot impression should be deeper in the ground .Also with the distance from heel to heel impressions these creatures have to use alot of energy to leave a flat footed impression for a lenth of time .You figure if one was to walk with a long stride for a long period of time one would be burned out.I sure could not keep up with a long stride walk in the woods .I would make it a few feet and be back with my usual short stride walk.But it seems that these creatures do it with no problem.
5towz2
I've followed your posts, c4s, and been intrigued with your tracking expertise. I've also been wishing you'd get the opportunity to follow some fresh tracks until you either find the hoaxer's escape vehicle or the bigfoot hangout (preferably the hangout). It would be an exciting time for all of us, I'm sure! So, keep on track'n and keep us posted! thumbup.gif
WillinYC
DDA,

First off, thanks for taking the time to post the pictures. I would like to see more if they are availible. I however think Cut4sign, brings to light many good points. There was a time when I thought that a good portion of the Bluff Creek tracks may have been actual prints possibly left by an unknown animal. I now am highly skeptical, and think many of the trackways that appeared in the Bluff Creek area were clearly fabricated. I recently got Chris Murphy's Book. The photo of one of Wallaces fake feet on page 109, I think is very damaging not only to the credibility of the nature of the Bluff Creek tracks but also is the closest thing to cut and dried proof that Wallace did fake at least some, if not all of the Bluff Creek tracks that were found in the vicinity of the BC logging operations. There is very little doubt in my mind that the aforementioned fake foot was most likely involved in the fabrication of the trackway Green is seen examining on page 111, and Dahinden is seen examining on 191. The crack or seam in the fake foot is a perfect match for the lateral ridge of dirt that can clearly be seen in the footprint. The same picture is also in On the Track of the Sasquatch. The fact that Green nor Dahinden ever really mentioned anything that would indicate they were dubious of anything going on at the time doesn't set well with me also. That lateral ridge of dirt caused by the crack on the Wallace fake, would be replicated in a trackway left soley in the dust present along the roads. IMHO, it would be a pretty obvious flag that the trackway was of human manufacture. I simply cannot see Mr. Green publishing a picture of a trackway in his own book, if he were in the least bit skeptical in it's origin. Also, does anyone know of Wallace's whereabouts during the early 1950's? In the early 1990's I spoke with an older gentleman that was working on another road building/logging operation in the late 1940's early 50's in Ca well away from the Bluff Creek watershed who told of strange goings on, that almost mirror the Bluff Creek incidents. He had an old faded picture of a track. The track was several days old and was somewhat degraded, but looked very much like a typical, hourglass/doubleball, BC track. I'm sorry is my skepticism offends some, but I think the points are valid and the questions need to be asked.
WillinYC
QUOTE(damndirtyape @ Jan 31 2005, 08:43 PM)
The group found many overlapping tracks of different sizes up there.

Again, I hate to sound like the hardened skeptic, but the lower track in this photo looks to be of dubious origin to me. The substrate the track is left in appears to be very soft, fine dust, yet the midpart of the foot leaves no real visable impression or even the vaguest hint of soil deformation. Yet the substrate was not of the nature to provide adequate resistance from this kind of deformation. This is clearly different from the Laverty Pic that shows a pressure ridge made by what can presumed is a metarsal break, on a living flexible foot. I think it's much more likely that this particular imprint, was made by a rigid fake foot. I've always wondered what the the rest of the Bluff Creek tracks that were always talked about, but never published looked like. I think it's human nature to publish the best pictures first, and don't think the rest of the photos were excluded because of what may be their potentially damning nature. I would like to see more of them however.
billgreen2005bigfoot
has there been any possible photos of sasquatch creatures from onion mountain & blue creek mountain please let me know ok. bill green
cut4sign
In all fairness to John, here is what he had to say about some of my questions:

QUOTE
I didn't know that Rick had already posted some of the pictures, so I have just been reading the thread. You are welcome to post what I have to say.

The purpose of having these photos (there are 35 altogether) was so that everyone could see how ridiculous it is to suggest that all the various shapes could have been made with a pair or two of false feet. From this sample a lot of viewers have gone on the opposite tack, noting how much some of the tracks look like one of the Wallace wooden feet. They do, of course, because those are the tracks the carvings were made to imitate.

That track, generally referred to as the "!5-inch track" was first recorded on a sandbar in Bluff Creek in the fall of 1958, just a few weeks after Jerry Crew made the first cast of one of the somewhat larger tracks that had been showing up overnight that summer on the road construction job above the creek. These tracks were found by Bob Titmus, then a taxidermist at Anderson, California, who is dead, and Ed Patrick, who now lives in Redding. They sank as much as an inch into the sandbar, which, as I saw for myself, was so densely packed that human boot prints did not even show the outline of the sole, just a flattened mark. Titmus made casts, now in the Willow Creek museum, and at one time sold a few copies of them, so they would have been available to copy from then on.

It is probably the most distinctively-shaped of any of the tracks that have been recorded in California, and it certainly the one that has been most frequently photographed and cast, by a quite a few different people, at various locations. At least a couple of times these tracks were reportedly accompanied by a smaller set, once going along a dirt road for a very considerable distance, but until 1967 I had never seen the smaller track, generally called the "13-inch track."

In August 1967 I got a call from a friend at Willow Creek telling me that tracks had been found on a road on Onion Mountain, and I drove down there with a man who trained tracking dogs, one of his dog handlers and their best dog. There were a few of each of the 15" and the 13" near where a road contractor had parked a water wagon, on a side road just where it branched off the main road. They were too old to interest the dog, and were not particularly good tracks, but I cast a couple of each.

A few days later I was notified by the road contractor that a lot more tracks had showed up overnight where he was working on the main road farther along on Blue Creek Mountain, which is really more of a ridge, and this time I managed to raise money for a plane and flew down with the dog and the handler, bringing Rene Dahinden with me. A  cougar hunter named S.C. Buttram came from Willow Creek with a jeep to provide transportation. The dog's owner was not able to come, and after having seen the big tracks he now required that men with rifles were to run a distance out on each side to protect his dog, hence the gun butt in one picture. We certainly did not expect to shoot anything.

By the time we got to where the tracks were it was late at night. At the first track we were shown, a 15'", the dog stiffened abruptly and the hair on its back stood up, but no one was in favor of trying to follow in the dark. The next morning the dog showed no interest. Where that track ended, heading down a hard-packed old side road that showed nothing,  the handler made a determined effort, but the dog only sniffed at the underside of bushes by the road, which the handler said is the last place the scent would linger, and apparently it found nothing it could (or maybe nothing it wanted to ) follow.

The contractor had said there were three types of track, one large and two smaller, but we only saw two. However traffic had wiped out the tracks on two wide strips of road, so he may have been right. The two that were still to be seen had both come onto the road from the Blue Creek side, but not at the same place. Both tracks did quite a bit of meandering about,  the larger one going right off the road on the Bluff Creek side at one point and returning farther back than where it had left, making double tracks for a short distance. We did not record the distance the tracks covered, but we counted 590 of them and estimated that there must originally have been about a thousand. Both tracks left the road on the Bluff Creek side, again not at the same place, the larger track being the first to come on and the last to go off. I don't remember just how the smaller one left.

There were some tracks off the road but in dirt disturbed by the work, otherwise the ground was too hard. The road itself also was quite hard-packed, but had a deep layer of fine dust on it, and this is what most of the tracks were made in. Typically such  tracks are deeper at the heel and toes, and far deeper than human tracks, but in this situation most of the tracks were shallow and rather flat, in those respects  more favorable than usual for possible fakery. On the other hand, although it was during a spell of very hot weather there had been a sprinkle of rain that dimpled the dust where it was undisturbed, and shaping all of the tracks, under a layer of new dust, was a fragile skin of hard-dried mud. As the day wore on, with traffic on the road contributing more dust, we could see the shapes getting less distinct. We considered this to be a clear indication that all of the impressions had been made during a short period while the top layer of dust was still damp: that they could not have been carved out, as the hoaxer's tracks would have been obvious and impossible to remove in the dimpled surface; and that they could not have been made by walking on false feet because there were many small and large variations in shape from impression to impression. To make so many tracks in a single night by any more-elaborate method seemed out of the question, and during the day there was traffic. The contractor, by the way, was not a Wallace, and while Ray was well-known by then for faking casts and movies and telling tall tales he was doing it back home in Washington, not in California.

Not being able to follow with the dog, we spent a lot of time examining and photographing tracks, but we cast only some of the poorer ones because we were waiting for someone to come from the British Columbia Museum. Also we heard, I forget how, that the same two tracks had turned up where some loggers had trailers parked on a small sandbar beside Bluff Creek and we went to look at those. There proved to be only a few left to see, because when the loggers came back from the weekend and saw the tracks around their trailers they hooked up and took the trailers elsewhere. However I did get the only photo I have of a deep track in hard-packed sand with boot prints hardly showing beside it.

When a man from the museum arrived the next day he proved to be an archeologist, not a zoologist, and after examining the tracks he spent his time trying to solidify and lift a track with one of the techniques of his trade, rather than casting any. The following day he spent the morning persuading some scientists from the university at Arcata to come, and by the time they arrived and were taken to the site the contractor had decided that we had left, the road had been graded, and almost all the tracks were gone.

As to the comments on the BFF thread, one of the Wallace carvings is a fairly good copy of a typical 15" track, but its mate, the one with the long thin mark at the heel, is not. It is too narrow, too straight-sided, and the three small toes are only notched at the front, not separated. It looks to me to have been made obviously artificial so the maker could experiment with what could be done wearing fake feet but not risk fooling anyone--something both Grover Krantz and I have also done. There is indeed one photographed track with a similar line, unexplained, in the heel, but it is in only that one among hundreds. The line is not there in any other photo or any cast of the 15" track, and on close examination it is not a match.

John
MountainLady
That is awesome!
Thanks so much for sharing these pictures DDA. I've thoroughly enjoyed them!

John's narrative to C4 is icing on the cake!

It's very nice to have this explained by someone that was there. I also noticed the fake foot looked similar to two of the prints posted by DDA. smile.gif

Thanks guys!
JayleeD
These pictures are great! I especially like the one of the overlapping tracks of different sizes. That one speaks volumes about what was actually found that day IMO. Thanks for sharing these with us. smile.gif
damndirtyape
I still have about 12 or so pictures to post tonight and they should show everyone that it was not a flat wooden device that made them.
damndirtyape
QUOTE(WillinYC @ Feb 1 2005, 01:26 AM)
QUOTE(damndirtyape @ Jan 31 2005, 08:43 PM)
The group found many overlapping tracks of different sizes up there.

Again, I hate to sound like the hardened skeptic, but the lower track in this photo looks to be of dubious origin to me. The substrate the track is left in appears to be very soft, fine dust, yet the midpart of the foot leaves no real visable impression or even the vaguest hint of soil deformation. Yet the substrate was not of the nature to provide adequate resistance from this kind of deformation. This is clearly different from the Laverty Pic that shows a pressure ridge made by what can presumed is a metarsal break, on a living flexible foot. I think it's much more likely that this particular imprint, was made by a rigid fake foot. I've always wondered what the the rest of the Bluff Creek tracks that were always talked about, but never published looked like. I think it's human nature to publish the best pictures first, and don't think the rest of the photos were excluded because of what may be their potentially damning nature. I would like to see more of them however.

This may be due to dirt being flung onto the track from the other track, filling in the arch area or by something else.
damndirtyape
Here is a track that exhibits the double ball characteristic. The edges of the track are also quite rounded as you progress from the sides onto the sole.
damndirtyape
Here an attempt is made to illustrate the huge step found between successive tracks.
damndirtyape
This pictures shows a very low angle light hitting it. John believes that most likely this was made up on a ridge because you could not get such an angle in one of the canyons.
damndirtyape
More tracks on the side of a road. If some one where holding a rope attached to a truck driving along a dirt road, with fake feet on, I don't think it would look like this. The main purpose for using the vehicle would be to lengthen the step or stride, increase the foot depth and decrease the fatigue. In doing so though, the treads of the tires on the vehicle would not be very sharply defined and the tracks would have layers of loose dust in them. Tire tracks could be laid down later or earlier for this observation to hold no water.
damndirtyape
Here is the track that John spoke of. It has what appears to be a line on the right side of the heel. One of the wooden feet that the Wallace family showed to the public also has a piece of wood missing from that section. An overlay though shows that the two don't really match except for the basic overall shape. The double ball is not in the same position among other things wrong with the similarity.
damndirtyape
A track with what looks like an upward bent ball and toe region.
damndirtyape
Not having been present during any of this it is hard to say what could possibly be another explanation for the tracks other than a real live Sasquatch, California style. If I were in this picture, I would be questioning the close proximity of the tire tracks, degradation of the tracks and then their disappearance, if they were not in fact from my own vehicle.
damndirtyape
Tracking conditions look real good. Here is the opposite foot from the one above with that questionable line in it's heel.
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