Riding in from the sky so blue
GCBRObusters

http://www.network54.com/Forum/241355

I think if more energy revolved around research and not DEBUNKING this might and I say might be a more pleasant BF Community.

It looks as though someone needs to
GET A LIFE :wink: :roll:

just my opinion

:roll: Here we go again.

Oh, so now ###### has been banned by EVERY other board out there, so he starts his own ??? how pathetic.

does THIS sound familar??? >>



and the first post goes to ----- "######"

Oh i forgot, he's allowed to do that .... because he's the bestestest

Geez...I agree.

People.....please get a life! :roll:

Everyone needs to drop the personal vendettas and get on with bigfoot research. Enough is enough.

And besides, if we're going to get down to brass tacks, it was this forum that blew the roof clean off of MG and JC's house of cards. Not some penny ante hoaxerbuster Network54 hunka' pop-up crap message board.

Actually I think real credit goes to Jim Keegan's message board (that no longer exists).

That would be correct. Was a good message board.

Hey George why dont you use this service for your MB? Works real nice.

I'll buy that. However, to quote a Tom Clancey character (can't remember the name, the one Harrison Ford played) if it isn't written down, it never happened and since Keegan bailed with his board...

Never really looked at Keegans board ,to much Eb for me to stomach.So for me its still Arky and Fish for the most part on the whole book debunking.

Well so much for XYZBusters the message board has been deleted.
Damn there goes a good thread ...right down the pipes.



Wipe?

[quote="GEORGEKARRAS"][QUOTE]And besides, if we're going to get down to brass tacks, it was this forum that blew the roof clean off of MG and JC's house of cards. Not some penny ante hoaxerbuster Network54 hunka' pop-up crap message board. [/QUOTE]

Actually I think real credit goes to Jim Keegan's message board (that no longer exists).quote]

Yup... I'll second that.

Yes this MB is first class but it is not a "service" its just softwear and requires a host. I not sure what it costs to maintain but I think if I attempted to run this on my server my host would want more money than I pay him now. Just a hunch. Bipto could probably shed some light.

For what I pay Delphi it delivers much more value than Network54 ever did and I dont have to worry about bandwidth. The admin tools are pretty user friendly and Im pretty happy at Delphi.

No, it's not a service, it is a product. It has to be installed on a suitable host and (since it's free) that means you have to do it. Then it needs to be maintained (updated, etc.). I pay a hosting company to host the site (hint, hint), but I started it out on my own computer. There are a bunch of free forums our there and many hosting companies that will host them for you, but you don't get much help from anybody...

Unless you're comfortable dinking around with mySQL, PHP, HTML, etc, stick with the service-based forums like Network54 or Delphi (which I never even heard of until I saw George's forum).

I am glad you got off Net 54 though. You new forum is free from those pop ups that net 54 spams us with. Delphi was a good choice on your part.

SkunkHunter

Thats right Skunky,

And that is just one reason why I left Network54 ...

Others being that along with the popups they secretly install "spy-ware" on users machines to do marketing surveys (or worse maybe?) and also if you become a paying customer to have the popups removed from your forum, they will STILL run popups if you exceed a certain number of page views!

Delphi does not do this. If you pay to not see popups. You wont. They dont play games. Network54 has a nice interface but their customer service and advertising policies stink.

You know what I find truly amazing about this whole GCBRO / Mary Green / HoaxerBusters merry-go-round is that they are for all intents and purposes the same people...

Mary Green is a long time GCBRO "officer" (not just a member) Bobby Hamilton the GCBRO "founder" Jim Lansdale pulls Bobby's "puppet strings" and runs the show. He and Rick Tullos (GCBRO member) are the "HoaxerBusters" ...

What this really amounts to is the GCBRO imploding in on itself...

And what NOBODY is taking note of is that they ALL are card carrying hoax perpetrators! Mary, GCBRO and company ... are all the same ... all just as CROOKED as their mentor Cliff Crook.

But NOBODY seems to notice.

Amazing!

Thats only 'cause I don't pay much attention to them in the first place.I don't know any of them.nor from what I've seen do I want to.JMO.

Delphi is the grand daddy of 'em all. Its the oldest Forum service on the internet and almost went belly up recently when they realized popup advertising was driving their customers away and they decided to try to find a different way to make a profit. What they came up with was a multi tiered subscription service and if you want to host your own forum you must be a subscriber. Readers do not have to subscribe and may still be subjected to advertisments but they are minimal compared to Network54.

Anyway of the service-based alternatives out there I think Delphi is the best at this time. I have thought for a long time about running a BBS like this one but have never been ambitious to really take on the job of learning how to run one. I guess Im just too lazy!

They are hoax perpetrators?

I don't know any of the GCBRO, but I never knew them aside from MG to be hoaxers!

Is there something I don't know about?

BRAVO George.

But if it ain't their way it aint real. Bigfoot 101 never question the GURU.

Exactly!

At least *YOU* have been paying attention...

Hmmmm....I am still lost. Well I either missed something or this all took place long before I got online two years ago.

Anyway, I do know you are not allowed to question them. That's all I know, but I didn't really associate that with hoaxing exactly. But what do I know...like I said...I don't know any of them personally.

Oh my dear the stories I could tell you ....

$60 membership fee (for the gullible BF hobbiest)

BBQ's where you are guranteed to cast a BF track (for the truly EXTRA gullible BF hobbiest)

Oh and lets not forget the GCBRO's book ... they got one for sale too!

Offers of access to other researchers *IF* those researchers *PROMISE* to stay in a deerstand all night and NOT get down and walk around.

OH! OH! and the Danny Sweeten Texas hoax incident!!! OOOH OOOH YEAH!

Theres more but I am relying solely on my memory over the past 5 years or so.

The GCBRO is the biggest scam in the whole Bigfoot "community"!

Why do you think they wanted to get rid of Mary Green? She was so poor at running her scam they didnt want to be associated with her when her scam fell apart and drew attention to their own scam!

And THAT is what all of Mary's current threats to the GCBRO are all about. Shes threatening to expose what she knows if they dont get off her case!

Why aren't I notified of these things?

Meet me on the bridge!!

Geesh, we need a Bigfoot 101 for newcomers to this field. Something to update us all on what's past. :roll:

Its fun to watch too!

If Mary does tell the dirty secrets she'll be exposing herself right along with her former cronies. So the next few rounds will be entertaining for sure ... any bets on whos the last standing in the ring?

Well Little Lady sixty bucks and a membership and you still won't "KNOW THEM".

For years it has been rival BFRO vs GCBRO and so on.
One group delves information that the others and individuals can debate or accept.
In the case of the GROUPS.... never question a statement as it is accepted as gospel.
Why??? Because it came from the AUTHORITIVE source. The GROUP or the LEADERS of said same.

Many many times things have been accepted and passed around without question.
Some of the items were "plants", purposely given to see a response.
I've done this myself.
There were infact those and I use "Jim Keegan" as an example who questioned anyone anytime no matter who what when or how.
*Some disliked him for his straightforward assholish demeanor.
But I miss Jim LOL

If they could produce the burden of proof then it was easier to accept or reject. The dino's are thinning out.
But hey
I've seen entire groups go crazy over a faked photo (one that was known as a fake)and it never phased them or anyone wanting membership into the prestigious Bigfoot Commune.
I'm gonna get some feed back from this one. :roll:

Our group MC (though always at low profile) questioned documented evidence from any and all. Even amongst ourselves. Then individually it was accepted or rejected. You can't force individuals into your beliefs.
As some one else said
" Just because THEY say it's TRUE don't make it GOSPEL" :wink:

Robert

Well I'll be damned! You learn something new every day. :wink:

Thanks for the heads up George and Robert. That's good info to know.

As for myself, I gave up on the GCBRO quite a while back when I went to question Jim Lansdale about two contradicting posts that he had made and the "moderator" refused to accept my post stating that, "it would only serve to cause a heated debate and they didn't want that kind of thing on their forum". Como??? :roll: Of course, I was invited to come into their PalTalk room where I could speak with MonsterHunter about it myself. As if! I don't have to walk through bullshit to know that's what I'm smelling.

Anyway, I emailed back and told them that I sure hated to know that my question was something that could turn the GCBRO on its ear and I haven't posted there since.

I do have to throw this in. I cannot see where the BFRO is in the same league with the other group mentioned. They(BFRO) seem much more professional in their studies. No books or definitive claims from them, that I can see, and certainly they have avoided the mudslinging that the other group seems to revel in.
JMHO.

I can see your point and mine was not intended to reflect the arguements being presented today.
I hold no grudges or annomosity to either group.

The statement (Back to Bigfoot 101)
was to reflect a old known fact concerning both groups.
Once upon a time
MattM and BobbyH were bud's....they had a falling out,
as I understand,
this is what created the other mentioned group.

The "league" they are in is each organizations own choices.

Both have accomplished many goals.
Battles along the way were viewed by many.


I'll stop here.
Thanks for pointing out my mistake in phrasing.

Robert

Damn I hate to bring this up. But there was this big outing yall had with Coonbo and Bear (accepted by many to be hoaxers on multiple occasions) and everybody heard bigfoots all around. Yet no tracks, recordings, photos nothing. No one even went out looking for any evidence , they all were in fear hiding in their cars. I guess your statement holds true about questioning documented evidence as nothing at all was documented at that outing. It was accepted as gospel by most much like Mary's current event. The lack of research was brought up and was quickly shot down by most of your members. They also thought Bf was emmiting this ultrasound wave that made some of the people there sick and so forth (could be possible to some degree, we will never know untill we have a specimen). So from what I can see so far is this tyoe of stuff happens in all groups, no matter what. It is inevitable. And that is why I will never join any organization ever.

Sorry to seem like an ass for posting this Robert, but that one event sure as hell was debatable and seems like something the other groups have been, and are being accused of. Now if it was not a MC sponsored or condoned event, I stand corrected. And I hope I did not start up any ill feelings but that is the only thing you had as an organization that was difficult for me. But other than that I always enjoy your message board and its posters.

Man now I feel bad bringing that up. I almost forgot.

SkunkHunter (opening his mouth to much lately)

Ok let's talk about that outing you mentioned.

First off ....I was not there (nor where you)

What you are basing your belief in that statement

is on hearsay or what you read on the Internet.

I do know
No one Ran (as Voldemort broadcast).
They were in thier vehicles not one or two but as many as 10 people.
There were recordings made.But they were transferred distorted and not much use.
No evidence?? It was shot down because most of us agree we do not owe people like Voldemort an answer to assnine questions.
There was evidence gathered on several followup research trips in the same and surrounding area by Individual Researchers.

The ULF was a series of threads dealing with "what if" no one said that's what occurred. A couple of the folks got sick after the encounter.
Prompting a discussion about ultra low frequencies.

That was blown out of proportion by another board.
One that we had no access to for rebuttal.

As far as your opinion of Bear and Coonbo
I don't accept heresay about individuals.
But they have not been members of MC for over a year.
I can tell you I have been in the woods with them both
and don't have a problem with them being there.
Show me where they were "proven to be hoaxers" by many.
You can't, it all came from the same sources initially
Grinding MaryG.
The Coonbo picture submitted to Mary Green was crucified by Voldemort and others and I'm not so sure he thought it was a bigfoot at the time
but was told it was. He would have to answer that.
all one sided heresay (it litters the boards now)
and I will not debate that because that is none of my business.

MC was started for individuals to remain individuals with group support.

Any other questions?

When we have outings there can be as many as 20 people
transporting to the woods.
Sometimes too many to actually RESEARCH.
But RECON is good
with that many folks discoveries can be made
and a lot of ground can be covered.

Robert

No schmidt, good call.



What I read was on your message board. First there was a 20" track, then later the pine needles covered the ground hence no tracks were detected. Ok the hiding in cars was not fair on my part.

"Apparent 20" track post http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/messag...geid=1014691922





I certainly never mentioned anybody running, Your man Bear did "I have read where we are accused of running from what we came to see! You damn right and as fast as we could!" His words exactly. http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/messag...geid=1015024775

. But it seemed the evidence was never presented, much in the same way one it was handled by MG and company. The "we do not owe people....." Not all the questions were assinine. Some were actually thought out real well. My questions were honest and were only answered with a repost from coonbo. If recordings were taken and they came out garbled, I can understand not presenting them. But no one until now made that claim that I can remember. the only claim to evidence, well one of them from the people on that outing was this quote "Evidence of these creatures were everywhere even under neath those open-type pines! Bows and twists were prominently in plain view of where we were walking. The footing underneath was a carpeting of pine needles so any tracks were hard to come by." http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/messag...geid=1015024775 But that 20" track must have been something.



My questions and their response was more or less, "yeeeehaaw"
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/messag...geid=1019882449




Actually was a good post , http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/messag...geid=1014840508

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/messag...geid=1014695503


No one said point blank that is what occured , but surely was eluded to. But you are right, that is entirely besides the point and you had no access to rebuttal on their board.



The words accepted and proven are two entirely different words. I said accepted. Why did you decide to change it to proven? Actually I am sure it was a mistake.

I cannot prove they are hoaxers, I also cannot prove Cliff Crook, David Shealy, May Green or anybody else is a hoaxer for that matter. Almost impossible to do something like that. I just have a hard time with people who have multiple Bf encounters, especially in multiple states. The calling in a BF always gets me too.

Bear the Bf summoner http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/messag...geid=1015024775

I guess I shouldnt accept what you say about MG and company or others, because it is hearsay in my eyes. But you know what? I trust your opinion on this. I have no firsthand experience on some of the people you spoke of, but I trust you. As far as MG, she would not even privately answer some questions I had, but she is not obligated to answer my questions.

Again, I never said they were proven. I said accepted. Just like Shealy, Crook and others are accepted in the BF community by some to be hoaxers.



I was not aware of a photo by him or anything like that. I too now see my guilt in accepting hearsay from folks I thought were reliable. Thanks for making me see that. I dont mean it to be sarcastic, its good to realise our own faults.



That should do it. Thanks for the input, got me thinking and realising some mistakes I have made. Thanks again and I am sorry to have brought this up from the past. Seems to be getting popular by many right now, and I just joined right in it seems.

SkunkHunter

No problem.
I will answer questions when I can.
As far as those present in the "group" many are no longer there.
As for the 20" track ...don't know.
The defense or bulk of Bear's response was to rebut Erik
Now we all wonder who and who not to believe and there is no foul in that.
I have questioned statements from within our group as well as they have questioned my statements as to personal experiences.
No biggie.
I remember you (if you're the same skunkhunter)
from the Message board and PalTalk.

Robert

I must ask, (though on this message board I dont have to worry about it) that the event I dug up be untouched and needs no further nitpicking as it was done over a year ago and I shouldnt have really brought it up. I was not there and no one was obligated to share any info with me.

I dont know if Bipto can delete it, or he may choose not to. If he does, that is great, if not, that is great to as it shows I am capable of getting unprofessional at times and will keep me a bit more humble.

That was not professional of me and I appoligize to the posters of this message board. It wasnt so much as having relevance to actual rersearch as it was my frustration from the past. Shame on me.

Ok, back to quiet mode.
SkunkHunter

Don't you dare!!! Hey guys I honestly thought that was a lot more interesting then the whole Coy/Green fiasco.It was well thought out, no flames,actual questions and answers on both sides of it.My thoughts, though probably not wanted or waranted,is that the Bf community (if there is such a thing) could use more of these honest exchanges than whats been going on for way to long.I've read Roberts and your posts for a long time before I ever started posting on any board.I respect you both for what I've seen on the MB's over that time.Its far removed from what more than a few post around and as far as I can tell always BS free.Ask the questions,provide the answers to them.Thats the way it should be.but like I said thats just my opinion. :wink:

My Humble Opinion regarding groups.

I had been doing sporadic research for many years. When i joined an organization a few years ago (when i went online), my knowledge tripled, quadrupled. My network of fellow "enthusiasts" increased ten fold. My database increased , my understanding of these delightful creatures increased.
I had some of my theories smashed to the ground, but i learned soooo much new stuff, that its worth it. I realise just how little i knew on my own, and how much MORE i can learn by talking to these people, working with them on projects, and how much more there is to learn about Big-Ol-Stinky-Pointy-Head.

I highly recommend anyone , join a group or an org. You benefit from it, they benefit from your presence, its just an all around win-win situation

But, do be careful of which group or org you choose to join. Some are blacklisted or just a bunch of crazed-wanna-be's . Guilt by association is overly common in this hobby. (dont ask me to name names, consider me Switzerland on this one ) It only takes ONE hoaxer in an org to destroy that Orgs reputation for EVER (unfortunatly). (no, nothing implied by that statement to any org, well, except for maybe eb and mg )

First, I won't delete it because it seemed to me to be an honest and civil exchange between two people who saw something in a different light. I agree with Jim's post totally. Skunk, you approached the topic with respect and deferred to Robert's interpretation of the facts. What's to delete? What's to apologize for? That's the kind of exchange this board was set up to facilitate. Deleting and blocking posts isn't my style (unless your initials are E and B).

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but I have went and deleted my initial 12 postings to this board. I just want to say that I am starting out fresh, starting over with a new perspective. I am embarassed to say that I was on that old bandwagon that was bashing other "researchers" and their "work". I will not do that again as it just fans the flames that are getting out of control. I still retain my view that this is one of the best boards on the net, you just can't get much better than this, grade A filet mignon of Bigfoot boards. I do want to say that I have been into the search for Bigfoot for about 11 years, and have been following the boards for about 3. I have had first-hand, direct dealings with some of the members of the "warring" groups that are fighting it out right now on both sides. I have shared some important evidence before in the past with some of them on each side, and it caused another big uproar. I don't want to be in it at ALL this time, so I am going to be like Switzerland myself on this one and remain neutral. I am going to buckle down and learn from past mistakes. That doesn't mean that I am going to model myself after Schultz on Hogan's Heros and "know nothing", but I will not be posting any fireball post in the future, as it just makes things worse. I will say one thing though, I DO NOT like hoaxers, they damage all the hard work that has been done on this subject, and you all know who I am talking about, enough said on that without mentioning any names. I do have a lot of respect for certain individuals of whom I think have made a good contribution to this field, and most of them have posted right here on this board. I am proud to be associated with the people on this board, and still appreciate the warm welcome I got when I first came here, and I hope to make this a nice place to stick around and share ideas.

I understand Volsquatch.

I have decided it is fruitless to try and expose a hoax as the ones who want to believe it still will and the ones that don't believe it have enough sense to know it to start with and don't need my help.

It's ok to post opinions about things but getting personal is a whole other thing. But that always seems to happen. Personalities begin to show and then it is an exchange of insults and the real debate is lost.

I guess it is best to remain neutral as I always used to do and just post on the boards you feel comfortable with relating to and ignore the flames as much as possible.

I have just gotten so tired of all the backstabbing and infighting lately. It makes me ill.

Well, it looks as though MG is going to freeze her board in three days. I just saw this on her board and it has NOTHING to do with the fact that I have deleted my past post and starting over fresh. This IS a big coincedence, and nothing more. I want to state right here and now, for the record, I have NOTHING to do with this in any way, form, or fashion. What she chooses to do is her business, and I have NO dog in this race. Like I said before, neutral neutral neutral. I will agree, Arkansan, there is just no way we can convince anyone of the hoaxes being perpetrated if they just will not listen. All clear thinking individuals already know anyway.

Nah. No shame on you at all. I was hanging around the MC board a bit when that incident went down. I felt the same frustration you did/do. That incident and some other nonsense that happened in the MC Pal Talk room, was the trigger for me to keep out of groups and or lending much credence to them and “collective mentalities….”

This post on the MC board kinda spoke what I was feeling at the time. Pretty much hung it up and didn't have much use for message boards after this… Except for the sheer entertainment value...

I have a different thought on all this sort of arguing. When it comes down to it, we have a major unknown we're all interested in in bigfoot, and in opinion with any unknown, what something "isn't" is as much a concern as what it is. So to some degree you have to be harsh or argumentative, and you have to be concerned with submitted suggestions of evidence that are false. There's a ruling out process and without hard evidence the "what's it's not" opinions are often what you have to go on more than anything else.
So while it might seem to some that people who continue this line of debate have agendas that are personal, they aren't personal against those disagreed with, they are personal in another way of caring about the subject.
Often it can get more personal than that as in some cases but as most people realize it's because those being questioned don't have any evidence that can withstand the rigid questioning.
My last comments as for it being a personal matter, while we only have theories and speculation for the most of it, bigfoot is a fascinating creature, or myth, that so far has eluded us, and in my opinion, such claims of false evidence and accounts and hoaxes undermine what it is, the harder speculated evidence such as the patterson film and the skookum cast, ect., and the more serious studies and research of bigfoot. So in my opinion not speaking out against the false claims and hoaxes only permits room for more.

I agree with that statement. The point I was trying to make is that there comes a time in any argument when all has been said that can be said, any more is just "piling on" for personal gratification. Make no mistake, when I smell a hoax, I AM going to speak up about it. BUT, once one has voiced all he or she can about a suspected hoax, then there is no need to keep blowing their own trumpet just because they like the sound it makes. I can understand if there has been a new revelation on a previously discussed hoax, but when the same stuff is being raked over the coals over and over and over again, it just starts to become stale. There just comes a point where enough is enough, and their is nothing else that can be said to sway peoples opinion one way or the other. JMHO, to each his own.
VS

I read what your sayin and overall I agree, there's only so much to be argued about a single subject. I guess my post wasn't specific about that, but yeah that book is for sure debated as thoroughly as possible, the only concerns I have had about it as I've written before on this site are that as a suggested factual guide to bigfoot, that's their way of saying "here's how I know all about bigfoot and so much more than anyone else", and clearly that's been debated, but the concern now is what they're going to do with that suggested knowledge, which, is going to be an ongoing thing. After all teachers have pupils, and before long many, will know so much more about bigfoot than everyone else, and wrongly at that. Who knows when, if it goes unchecked, it could potentially undermine someone's else's real, credible research.
Also consider guilt by association, as bigfoot researchers. Only something to consider though. Overall I'm certain people will be on top of what goes on.
Since you're "starting over" with this site, refer to this questionnaire and answer it if you care to or eventually have time, it's been interesting reading the different answers, at least it has been for me.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/viewtopic.php...p?t=828&start=0

*bump* - just for the history

History is scary sometimes

Nah...to hell with it...Nevermind...

Randy
if you have a response from a year old thread ...... go for it.

These were issues of the time and some were not viewed correctly I admit.
In hindsight many of the things talked about in this thread,
have opened opinion changes,
at least I know they have with me and several other folks.

Why this was bumped up
I do not know?

Robert

AYE! The things that go bump in the night.