I recently had a conversation with a friend who made the decision to live in the bush about a year ago. Not a "wildman" or a hermit, just a fellow who made a lifestyle decision based on certain circumstances.

I should clarify that what I mean by living in the bush means moving to an area that is secluded, in his case a small piece of heavily wooded land in Northern Ontario, then building a concrete pad and dumping a small trailer on it. Since then he has built a small screened-in patio attached to the trailer entrance and a little 10x10 shed. Power is derived from a solar/battery array and a generator if necessary however he has successfully negotiated an electrical contract to have a power line brought in later this spring.

He made the decision to move for several reasons but most notably the main reason was the cost which quite honestly astounded me when he told me how much (or should I say how little) it cost him to set this all up. At the time the fellow was hard up on his luck and after going through a painful divorce it had drained him financially and mentally. Seemed like the right thing to do at the time, perhaps it was even to his benefit as the courts have seemed to take pity on him because of where (and perhaps how) he lives.


Anyways, I was at his trailer having a conversation with him when he said to me "why don't you live in the bush too? You are always out here. You love it don't you?"

You know, for what seemed like a very long moment I seriously thought about it. And it has really stuck in my mind. Perhaps not a trailer but a small unobtrusive cabin nestled in the deep woods. I really dont know......I mean, I already live in a small rural community so I am trying to look at the pros and cons of such an undertaking. I love the outdoors, the peace, privacy and tranquility.....and sure, there is the 'squatching' potential but can I really bring myself to do this?

Im looking for some opinions, perhaps from those thinking of doing the same or from those who have done it. Pros? Cons? Things to consider?

Don.

Sounds like a very doable and very enjoyable thing to do. Nothing but the bush for miles around. And we do not need that much power. In the proper location, all of your power needs could be supplied by solar/batter systems and for emergencies, a small backup gas/diesel generator would suffice.

There is a lot to this concept, and a most ingriguing and I feel rewarding path to follow if one is so inclined.

Good luck!!!!!

Thats one of my main concerns, and also heat. The area has no problems dipping down to -30c for a long period of time. Then there is the windchill issue.....
I can't see an electric heater being very efficient. He uses a kerosene space heater which seems works quite well.

What scares me about solar is the cost. I have seen those systems priced astronomically high but I guess you only make a one-time purchase and your set.

Don.

A properly engineered solar system can, for less than $500 provide all the power you need. There are plenty of heating options other than electric that will work well also. The idea is to be as effecient as possible. Of course, you can have standby emergency heat like a fuel-oil heater of some kind. But for the most part if you keep out the draft and insulate properly, even in -30 F temps, you should stay cozy enough to walk around in light clothing in a nice log cabin.

It sounds like heaven to me. Of course nothing is ever as easy as it sounds. I've seen some very nice cordwood cabins which are about as cheap as it gets as far as construction. I lived in a house for a while that had a woodburning stove and it kept the place nice and warm. of course Oklahoma gets nowhere near as cold as Ontario. I'm not exactly sure that I would want to live there full time but if I had a cabin in a remote area in the woods I would probably spend more than half my time there.

A lot of people do not know this, But it is cheaper to make a whole modern house solar then to run power lines 100 yards to it.
Now that was 10 years ago so the distance might be much less today. I learned about that when I took a solar class for work back then.

Indeed you are correct.

As a person who has engineered many solar systems for offshore and remote pipline systems as well as recently autonomous WiFi links where the nearest powerline is measured in miles, it is amazing to me that people still think you have to have that old transmission line to make effecient power systems. The idea is to not waste power just because you have it, but to over-supply what you need then conserve or store the rest.

Inexpensive solar panels and deep cycle batteries make very effecient systems and a single day of 'charging' can run several nights off the batteries with plenty to spare.

Are there any sites to show you how to make your own house, plumbing, solar electricity, etc.

I've been wanting to do something like that, not necessarily out in the bush though. But it can apply anywhere.

I learned in class long ago, people used to order wood and assemble quality Craftsman homes?

Just go to www.google.com and type in a subject. You will find a LOT of information on this subject online. You can get every thing from pre made systems that you just install and it is ready to go, To sites telling you every thing you need to do in order to build your own systems.

Check out this link: http://www.solar-electric.com/batteries.html

Of course, you can mount the solar panels anywhere that is convient as well as inital storage batteries.

However, the most common mistake people make is to try and run the low voltage DC hundreds or even a thousand feet to their cottage. The best thing to do is to use a simple 30 watt inverter to generate 110 VAC from the 12 VDC system. Step that up to 480 VAC using a dry-type transformer, then you can run it a half mile or so and then step it back down and rectify it for charging local batteries. Then just simply use the DC power from the batteries to power EVERYTHING you would ever need right there in your cabin.

This is a very effecient system.

Here is a link to a site about the cordwood homes I mentioned. I love the look of the cordwood homes.

Cordwood homes

Thanks a lot for the info WildernessGuy!

So when it comes to electrical / electronic items used in the cabin, I'm led to believe that finding and using a 12v equivalent would be more efficient than using an inverter and a 110v item (perhaps because of the inverter efficiency and loss)?
Would you say that is a safe assumption to make?

I know that there is always going to be a need at some point for 110v so there will be an invereter somewhere in the system but it should not have to be on full time?

I've also heard that LED lighting is the way to go but I am not sure if I like the way LED lights look. Very cold and harsh. I am sure new technology will change that at some point......

Don.

Your welcome.

The inverter would be to 'transmit' the power over a distance, and perhaps a small inverter in the cabin for the odd short duration device. But most everything today can run on low-voltage.

I've purchased as lot of low voltage 'appliances' from Truck Stops. You would be amazed at what you can find at those places to run on 12/24 volts.

But, a basic design would be to put in a 1.33% over power Solar array, then invert the low voltage, step it up for transmission over smaller wire to your destination, then step it back down and charge your batteries.

As a backup, use a generator to charge the batteries when there is a problem charging from solar power. But only as a last ditch soluiton.

Also, mechanical recharging methods, like a peddle operated generator for topping off the batteries. For example, if you wanted to put in that latest BF Movie to watch, peddle power for the DVD/TV and let the excess go into storage in your deep-cycle batteries.

When folks talk about living in the "Bush" in Alaska, it's usually off of the road system, or on an island/area that has only periodic ferry service. That truly is a dramatic lifestyle change, even if coming from a fairly rural area.

I know of folks even here (with little sunshine in winter, and dramatic array aiming problems in summer) using solar energy successfully. Fuel cells are also getting popular up here.

The reasons I can't move rural are primarily these:

1) I'm still building a retirement nest egg (even rural, a monetary income is critical)
2) I have a family that prefers a rural, but connected, lifestyle

The best I can hope for are long period nomadic retreats. And, frankly, I'm liking the idea. Going on my own little "expeditions", then having a comfortable home and loved ones to return to, has become more appealing to me than actually working my fanny off building another home (I've been doing that, and it has taken a lifetime; I don't know if I have enough umfph to do it again).

Besides, it allows visits to different areas rather than getting stuck in the same patch of woods.

cool idea. i hope you get what you're looking for

my dad bailed when i was 5 and moved to alasaka, north of fairbanks, in a area that i think was called 'goldstream'. he lived there for 22 years, in a one room shack with no electricity or running water. i spent 4 months there when i was 11, and it was summer so i dont recall how he heated the place. but i do clearly remember using an outhouse, driving a few hours to town every month for supplies and public showers, driving with huge trash cans to a place called 'fox' where we caught water coming out of a mountain.

my dad made a living by taking hunters from the lower 48 on hunt trips for a week or two at a time. one year he lived in a town called chicken and was the cook for some gold miners. one winter he had very little food, and ate grubs, he and my step mom were literally starving that year. he's told me many stories about being out there. he never did see a sasquatch tho, or any sign of one. in fact he gets a kick out of my interest in them.

sometimes i think i'd like to be out in the boonies. but i like to know someone will hear me if i scream, and come running, so i live downtown

gael

I think you will love it. There are so many good things I can say about living rural that the few minor inconveniences involved don't even make it on the radar screen. Get yourself a good airtight canadian box stove, or a jutol. Something that is very efficient. A Russian fireplace will also do. Check out Mother Earth News (a little weird occasionally, but a lot of very good info) at www.motherearthnews.com Link 1 and backwoods home magazine at www.backwoodshome.com. Link 2. I believe you will find yourself becoming much less stressed, thinking more clearly, more self-reliant and self-confident almost from day one.
BSF

Hey wouldn't that be nice!

Those links are pretty good, I have bookmarked them for reference later.

I'm assuming your out in the sticks now?

Don.

No, I am stuck in the suburbs temporarily. I grew up on a farm deep in the woods, and have lived most of my life far from a town. But this experience at suburban living only reinforces my appreciation for the backcountry.
BSF

I too am now grounded in the 'burbs...complete with a neighbor from hell that tries to enforce his views of landscaping and other trivial shee-ott on us. To him, it's gravel and sod or nothing! He hates our wildflower garden...but I digress...I miss the rural, wide-open areas of Wyoming. i like having a neighbor that's "right next door" when he's 5 miles away.

Yes, I remember those days.....We lived way out in the middle of nowhere and they hadn't even brought in rural telephone service yet. CB radios were pretty new at the time and we would all chat using those wireless wonders of the time. Tube radio, took about 25 minutes to warm up. After it got going you could put your mug on it and keep it warm all day. Eventually we got party line telephone service. We were two rings, the neighbour next to us (4 miles east) was three rings, etc.

Brings back some fond memories.....

Don.

Yea, I remember this. We were two short one long ring.

My budding electronics curiosity and a partyline phone was a lot of fun when I was 7.

I remember walking next door and it taking about a half hour to get next door. Mostly I either road my bike or sattled up the horse. Nothing like living out in the boonies. And I had miles of woods allaround the house to explore....

Ahhhh, such childhood memories.

One thing that has always amazed me here in Alaska is that there are lots of Bush residents that have "neighbor problems", even though that neighbor lives miles away.

Some things are just inescapable.

Russian fireplace:


A little work building it, but they are clean burning, and highly efficient.
BSF

Thats a pretty neat looking fireplace/stove setup there BSF wouldn't mind having one of those those. I liked the fireplace frome alone in the wilderness where Proenekke builds the fireplace out of stones found around the area. I wouls like to someday build my own little fireplace.

My uncle built one in his farmhouse 30-some years ago. It keeps his house warm all night without waking up to feed it. And it uses surprisingly little wood. We had a home-made wood-burning furnace in my house as a kid. The house was huge, but heat was distributed through steam radiators. I think this method used a lot more wood though.
BSF

Have a friend who has a Tulikivi (huge money, same premise though) at his place up by
Lake of the Woods and it's amazing the heat they give off...put some soapstone in for some of that brick and it's even toastier!

A friend of mine who owns a plot of wooded land, built a cabin on it.
He purchased a blown-motor RV for very little money, and stripped out all the 12 volt stuff. Lights, water pump, deep cycle batt's, radios, tv, heck, even the toilet ! He mounted a small solar battery charger on the roof of the cabin, and that takes care of his needs. He still has the gen set from the rv, but its not hooked up, he says he's never needed it.

I would LOVE to live full time, off grid I already have the woodstove ...

What I would like to do is bring in a large heavy duty wall tent with stove and all the good stuff and live in it for a while. I like this Idea because it would provide good shelter and I would not have to stay in the same place all of the time like if I were to build a cabin. Who knows, Cascades in january and head over to live in a remote spot of wyoming for the summer. Just pack it up and travel to any wilderness I would like to.

After I got out of the Navy, and before I moved to Texas, I was an Ironworker, working long hours. I was fed up with working and staying in urban areas, so took 3 months off and erected a cabin out in the mountains. I bought an old wood stove for a few bucks and took some clothes, cookware, fishing and hunting equipment, a coonhound for companionship, and stayed in the cabin for the 3 months. Came to town a few times in that period to stop at the saloon, get some supplies, and headed back.
I lived mostly on trout and venison, with rabbits, grouse, squirrels and even a goose on the menu. Only food I paid for was whiskey, flour, corn meal, beans, potatoes, bacon (real, slow-smoked slab bacon) and coffee. Maybe a few carrots and onions once in a while. Bought some home-made lye soap from a lady in town and I would bathe in the trout stream.
I had not a single visitor in the 3 months I was there, and I loved it. But, I did get lonely for female companionship. Damned enjoyable and inexpensive way for a man to live.
BSF

Jerimiah Johnson
Bear Claw
JJ
BC

Jeremiah Johnson was a pretty cool movie, even if Redford is a flake. I spent an entire spring, summer and fall traveling the PNW and living outdoors. After I had an injury, I had a lot of time off. Started in No. California, where I was living. I explored Oregon, then Washington, but when I hit Idaho, I realized I had hit the mother lode of real wilderness in the lower 48. Spent most of that time in Idaho after that. I had a tent and a camper on my truck, but mostly slept under the stars, near my campfire. I lived mostly on trout and potatoes. My advice, Don and Jack, is get out there and do it. You owe it to yourself.
BSF

PS: I happen to like women.
Edit: Added the N th the end of Washington

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads. I lodge-poled her at Deadwood Creek, and traded her for a Hawken gun. But don't get me wrong; I loves the womens, I surely do. But I swear, a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the Almighty ever made on this earth, and I can find no sign on it.

Lol, what a great movie this is I was given the dvd as a gift for christmas and I keep watching it. One of the great movie classics.

We use one of these when we go elk hunting. I could live in the thing for a while!



Montana Canvas Wall Tent

Tested for extreme conditions, Montana tents are made from the best class A canvas available, with a parrafin base coating containing UV inhibitors, mildew resistors, water proofing and fire retardants for the ultimate in durability. Every Montana walled tent comes standard with a military stove jack, a full length ridge pole reinforcement through the center and additional reinforcement at the gable ends. The eaves are constructed of a double canvas layer with double stitching, while the endwall seams use 6 layers of double lock-stitched canvas. Large, roomy weather flaps are secured by a heavy duty, trouble free YKK zipper when closed and Fastex side release buckles when open - incredibly easy to use. The tent bottom is reinforced with webbing and grommets instead of stake loops. Sewn-in sod cloth extends a full 12" beyond the tent floor, providing a weather-tight seal. Each tent comes with rope, rope slips, and storage bag. Stove not included. Made in the USA.

Floors
Durable 13 oz. laminated vinyl floors stay where you put them and lift easily for cleaning. Banded edges provide additional strength and metal grommets offer a secure staking base. All floors come with a 5'x5' cutout to accommodate a stove.

:doh: I stand corrected !! (its been awhile since i saw that movie) Yes !! One of the Classics.

Jack knows his shiite !!

No I don't have it memorized I just went onto yahoo and looked up quotes from the movie lol. JayleeD these Montanna wall tents look quite nice to, wouldn't mind staying in one these for a while either.

Well I called my friend this evening to ask him a few questions and to share some of the feedack I have gotten so far. As the phone was crackling away (That's another topic for discussion......he's using an old analog Motorola bag phone with a external directional antenna on a 30ft tower. Only thing that works up there), anyways, he mentioned that the temperature was bitterly cold at -36c and there was a local bear that insisted on picking through a portion of his firewood pile and removing the bark off some pieces ????

After a few minutes I got off the phone with some more info that he felt I should be concerned about:

A good reliable source for fresh potable water
A good and sanitary way for sewage and garbage disposal. (He mentioned a composting toilet called an "Envirolet"
A backup heater
Protection from agressive animals

So i'm learning and becoming more and more facinated by the hour. I'm starting to make a list of everything I need to consider, so If you have 2 cents to deliver I will take anything I can get!

Thanks to everyone for your input so far!

Don.

If you build, or place a mobile, you should first make sure there is water. Drill a well. I have dug my own septic tank a few times. Also dug a well. Just takes a little elbow grease. Make sure you have a heater, and a back-up system for heat would be prudent. If a bear wandered too close to my dwelling repeatedly, he would become groceries. We incinerated all combustible waste, composted all food waste, and separated glass and metals into heavy metal mesh trash bins off the back porch, for recycling. This was a long time ago, not sure if all that still goes on. We also had a small private land-fill at the far end of our farm, but not much ever went into it. For an incinerator, we had a six foot section of 60" ceramic sewer pipe stood upright, about two foot off the ground, with a heavy metal grate at the bottom. A little gas and a match would get her started.
BSF

This pic was posted on another forum I sometimes frequent, I really like the setup that this guy has for his hunting camp, this would be pretty nice. heres the pic.

I've got a 5-man Army tent with Arctic liner and Yukon stove in a 55 gallon overpack stashed out in the yard. I keep it out there so that if an earthquake shakes the house down, we have a place to stay while picking the place up.

It's amazing how cold it can be outside and how warm you can be inside. I've stayed a week in one of those things at 30 below. You could literally live on the Arctic Ocean icepack in one of those things.

And it is worth a few bucks to have that well water tested, Don, no matter where you are. Amazing how much bad water there is now.

-Vern