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tugboatwa
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...50346/1106/NEWS
QUOTE
The Nature of Things
Sightings of `Swamp Ape' Should Be Noted With Skepticism


By Tom Palmer - tom.palmer@theledger.com

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The most recent sightings of the so-called "swamp ape" are intriguing. But, to quote the late cosmologist Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The extraordinary claim is that there is a large mammal unknown to science roaming the wilds of Florida.

If you're not skeptical, you should be. Here's why.

For one thing, Florida is not some remote area of the Tropics. It has been pretty well explored for centuries.

Florida is a fairly developed state, crisscrossed by highways.

Even when the Florida panther was down to the last couple of dozen animals, they were still getting hit by vehicles. Animals may evade science for a time, but the chance that they could evade scientists and speeding cars is slim. Road kills are a useful, if grisly, research tool.

I have to blame pop culture, especially movies, for fostering the idea that such creatures might exist.

My favorite example is "Son of Kong," a 1933 sequel to "King Kong."

Among the logical questions arising from that movie, the most obvious concerns the whereabouts of Queen Kong. King Kong was powerful, but he was incapable of giving birth.

Where wildlife survives, it is because there is a breeding population of them, not a single specimen. That's how things work, myths and fancy to the contrary notwithstanding.

Does this mean there are no undiscovered creatures somewhere on the planet?

Certainly not.

Scientists working the Tropics continue to find previously unknown (to them anyway) species of birds, frogs and other vertebrates.

Odd creatures are pulled from the sea as well.

However, you don't have to go that far afield.

Scientists at Great Smoky Mountain National Park began in earnest in 1998 trying to fill in gaps in the park's species list.

They felt there are 100,000 species in the park, 90 percent of which they had not found.

By 2003 they had come up with 334 species that were new to science and 2,192 species previously unrecorded in the park. Scientists expect to find more.

Many of these new species were insects.

In 2002, scientists reported the discovery of a new species of centipede in New York City's Central Park.

Here in Central Florida, scientists have discovered new species -- mostly ants and beetles -along the Lake Wales Ridge in Polk and Highlands counties.

Entomologists have told me there's an even chance of finding new insect species somewhere in my yard.

So what did the people who reported these skunk apes see?

Beats me.

Wildlife misidentifications are common. Most people aren't trained observers and they make mistakes.

I wouldn't make fun of them, though.

Instead, I would hope they continue to be interested in their surroundings and continue to look.
belleoftheball
So, you people from Florida are Crazy after all. new_tonguesmiley.gif

I like to know where's his Extraordinary Evidence is to back up his Extraordinary Claims? dry.gif There are other unknown animals out there but just no Great Ape. At least not in the States. blink.gif Okay
Belle
Wolf
Good post Tugboat. The article makes a good point without slaming anyone.

As a native of Florida, I have never put any stock in the "Skunk Ape." Out here in the PRK and PNW (yep, I was in the military and love my acronyms!) it is a different matter altogether.

All the best,
micahn
I have lived in Florida for over 30 years now. I also was never real big on anything like a Bigfoot living here. However I have read a few stories about things and even know one person who happens to be a Police officer that says he seen a Swamp Ape years ago.
If I had to bet on if a Swamp ape was here or not I would not bet to much on it. I believe in Bigfoot 100 % but I am just not sure if they live every place some people say they do.

But then again I have done a lot of hunting and all here in Florida and a lot more empty land here then a lot of people think.
tugboatwa
QUOTE(tugboatwa @ Jan 5 2005, 09:16 AM)
...to quote the late cosmologist Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The extraordinary claim is that there is a large mammal unknown to science... .

If you're not skeptical, you should be.

It is very hard to argue with at least that part.
Fishbone35
QUOTE(belleoftheball @ Jan 5 2005, 12:48 PM)
So, you people from Florida are Crazy after all. new_tonguesmiley.gif

Gee Belle, I hope you're not just figuring that out. wink.gif icon_razz.gif

And Tug, you're right. We should remain skeptical. However, I do take issue with a couple of statements that the writer of that article made.

QUOTE
For one thing, Florida is not some remote area of the Tropics. It has been pretty well explored for centuries.

I'd like to see the author validate that statement. Sure, most of Florida has been trampled upon by a white man at one time or another, but does the writer mean to suggest that Florida has been explored in its entirety, all the time? Does he think that something like a sasquatch would just sit in one spot all the time like some unique trinket just waiting around to be found? We are talking about a mobile species here, not some landmark.

QUOTE
Florida is a fairly developed state, crisscrossed by highways.

Pardon my French, but whoop-dee-shit. So what? Most of the sightings I've investigated involved a sasquatch crossing a road. If anything, having these highways criss-cross the state has only increased the chance of anyone here having a sighting.

QUOTE
Even when the Florida panther was down to the last couple of dozen animals, they were still getting hit by vehicles. Animals may evade science for a time, but the chance that they could evade scientists and speeding cars is slim. Road kills are a useful, if grisly, research tool.

Talk about a straw man! If we are to accept the author's reasoning then there are absolutely no sasquatch anywhere. And just what the hell does he mean about them evading scientists??? Seems to me that they've evaded damn near everyone else as well.

Perhaps if the author of this article were to actually interview some of the witnesses who have seen these creatures in this state, he might change his viewpoint. Or am I to believe that no one else ever lies about bigfoot sightings with the exception of people in Florida? Puh-lease! Once you've looked these people in the eyes and seen their conviction and the depth of their sincerity along with the fact that they are still trying to come to terms with what they saw, it becomes very hard to simply discount what they have said with a blanket, "I just don't buy that they're in Florida" statement. :rolleyes:
belleoftheball
QUOTE(Fishbone35 @ Jan 5 2005, 03:24 PM)
QUOTE(belleoftheball @ Jan 5 2005, 12:48 PM)
So, you people from Florida are Crazy after all.  new_tonguesmiley.gif

Gee Belle, I hope you're not just figuring that out. wink.gif icon_razz.gif

And Tug, you're right. We should remain skeptical. However, I do take issue with a couple of statements that the writer of that article made.

QUOTE
For one thing, Florida is not some remote area of the Tropics. It has been pretty well explored for centuries.

I'd like to see the author validate that statement. Sure, most of Florida has been trampled upon by a white man at one time or another, but does the writer mean to suggest that Florida has been explored in its entirety, all the time? Does he think that something like a sasquatch would just sit in one spot all the time like some unique trinket just waiting around to be found? We are talking about a mobile species here, not some landmark.

QUOTE
Florida is a fairly developed state, crisscrossed by highways.

Pardon my French, but whoop-dee-s**t. So what? Most of the sightings I've investigated involved a sasquatch crossing a road. If anything, having these highways criss-cross the state has only increased the chance of anyone here having a sighting.

QUOTE
Even when the Florida panther was down to the last couple of dozen animals, they were still getting hit by vehicles. Animals may evade science for a time, but the chance that they could evade scientists and speeding cars is slim. Road kills are a useful, if grisly, research tool.

Talk about a straw man! If we are to accept the author's reasoning then there are absolutely no sasquatch anywhere. And just what the hell does he mean about them evading scientists??? Seems to me that they've evaded damn near everyone else as well.

Perhaps if the author of this article were to actually interview some of the witnesses who have seen these creatures in this state, he might change his viewpoint. Or am I to believe that no one else ever lies about bigfoot sightings with the exception of people in Florida? Puh-lease! Once you've looked these people in the eyes and seen their conviction and the depth of their sincerity along with the fact that they are still trying to come to terms with what they saw, it becomes very hard to simply discount what they have said with a blanket, "I just don't buy that they're in Florida" statement. :rolleyes:

Eh, I'm just a little slow on the uptake... unsure.gif don't mind me Fishy! wink.gif

QUOTE
Pardon my French

I happen to like your French. I speak it very well.
I too believe somethings down there other than Dave Shealy.
Tirademan
Well, just for kicks I'm sending him the Florida stories I've found...even though they "prove" nothing, at least the ones from 1818 and 1900 should give his "movie theory" a rest.

And one is even a claim of a man hitting one in his car! icon_really_happy_guy.gif

To me, it sounds like the typical skeptical non-logic..."We don't know what's there, but we know what's not there!"

tirademan
jimf
What Fish said... and to add.
QUOTE
Florida is a fairly developed state, crisscrossed by highways.
It certainly is.. On the coasts!! I suggest the author spend a a little more time away from the beach resorts. Or better yet take a drive down to Flamingo and then tell me how populated it is.
QUOTE
I have to blame pop culture, especially movies, for fostering the idea that such creatures might exist.
What he fails to consider is that but 10 years ago.. Nile monitors, we were told could not survive in Florida, and reports of them were recieved with skepticism to say the least, with the same "misidentification" label being applied. Now its a fact that in some areas the popualtion of them has grown so large that they represent a threat to some of the other domestic and local wildlife.

And that's just one example.. google search for more. or pick any animal and add Florida to the search and you may find there are more strange and misplaced animals are here than most ever imagined. From rhesus monkeys that are seperated from the mainland by nothing more than a slim stretch of water to pythons seen by biologists in the evergaldes.

Just something to consider before any one comes along and says that something cannot exist here.
Painthorse
It's articles like that, that keep my desire alive to prove the damned things exist in Florida. mad.gif
crewchf
If we're not even sure what this thing is,,, then we for SURE can't say where it lives or doesn't live..

Crew Chief

PS Lots of remote areas all over America,, that may not even be important!!!
SkunkHunter
I have a hard time believing a "Skunk Ape" or Bigfoot exists in Florida. I actually have a hard time believing it exists anywhere. But that does not mean it’s impossible. Folks who think Florida is over developed need to drive 20 miles away from the coast. Florida is one of the top 3 cattle states in the US. Or at least used to be. The State is largely unpopulated as far as the spread of humanity goes. Everyone is hugging the coast.

I personally think Florida is an excellent place for an undiscovered primate to live undetected. Most places are flat out impossible to get to without an airboat. And those are not exactly stealthy. If it were a little more dry like some other States or northern Florida, I think I would be out looking more. But the fact is the everglades SUCK for looking around. I just don’t do it anymore. It really is an exercise in misery. Hot, chest deep water in every direction. An occasional hardwood hammock that happens to be next to impossible to navigate through due to the undergrowth and spider webs that make a blinding curtain of webs. It really sucks, and yet it’s so beautiful. There is nowhere else like it in the world. It is truly a unique environment on this Earth. Folks, who never left their hotel during vacation and actually went into the wilds of Florida, have no business writing about the unlikelihood if such a creature as the Skunk ape.
Desertyeti
I think the evidence for a Skunk Ape is pretty good (chimp-like tracks, knuckle imprints, certain behaviors, etc.). I just don't think it's a native North American primate. Probably one or more captive chimps and orangs get released periodically (just often enough to keep the stories going) and are honestly reported by sincere citizens. Then the wack-jobs take over and try to make the sightings into a BF-like creature. The apes may live for awhile, but probably wind up either as gator bait or starve to death since they're probably used to being fed things that don't grow native in the wilds of Flroida.
Bigfoothunter
I too, have had a hard time believing that there is a skunk ape, but I personally know one witness named Jason Valenti who told of his sighting in Vancouver a few years ago and I must say that it is a credible story in my view. As I recall, the guy who was with Jason recalled a few things differently as far as the creatures appearance went. This led me to think they both are actually sharing their own personal observations and not working for a script. Jason was studying at the time to be a Preacher, but this sighting he had changed his views on religion and the creation of man. If I had to bet all or nothing on Jason's veracity pertaining to seeing a skunk ape, then I'd go with betting it all.
JayleeD
QUOTE(Desertyeti)
Then the wack-jobs take over and try to make the sightings into a BF-like creature.



Not all of the people who report or investigate sightings in FL are 'wack-jobs'. I find that rather offensive.

Sure, the ones I know are a little nutty from time to time, but hey...who ain't? wink.gif

new_tonguesmiley.gif laugh.gif
billgreen2005bigfoot
hi everyone i think all the florida sasquatch sightings are real as long as they dont come from the tabloids but real newspapers etc. bill green ct sasquatch researcher. please keep in touch ok...
Desertyeti
The wack-jobs I was referring to are the ones whose viseos wind up all over the t.v. and net...you know who... new_whistle.gif
JayleeD
Oh yes, I know who your talking about. It's OK to blast them. wink.gif laugh.gif
Huntster
QUOTE(SkunkHunter @ Jan 10 2005, 02:21 PM)
I have a hard time believing a "Skunk Ape" or Bigfoot exists in Florida.... But that does not mean it’s impossible...

That's how I feel about it, too.

QUOTE
...I personally think Florida is an excellent place for an undiscovered primate to live undetected....


I don't know about staying undiscovered there, but it sure seems to be classic ape habitat...

QUOTE
...Hot, chest deep water in every direction. An occasional hardwood hammock that happens to be next to impossible to navigate through due to the undergrowth and spider webs that make a blinding curtain of webs...


If such apes don't exist (or there are very few left) there now, I'll bet they were there some time in the past.
scotto
QUOTE(SkunkHunter @ Jan 10 2005, 02:21 PM)
I have a hard time believing a "Skunk Ape" or Bigfoot exists in Florida. I actually have a hard time believing it exists anywhere. But that does not mean it’s impossible. Folks who think Florida is over developed need to drive 20 miles away from the coast. Florida is one of the top 3 cattle states in the US. Or at least used to be. The State is largely unpopulated as far as the spread of humanity goes. Everyone is hugging the coast.

I personally think Florida is an excellent place for an undiscovered primate to live undetected. Most places are flat out impossible to get to without an airboat. And those are not exactly stealthy. If it were a little more dry like some other States or northern Florida, I think I would be out looking more. But the fact is the everglades SUCK for looking around. I just don’t do it anymore. It really is an exercise in misery. Hot, chest deep water in every direction. An occasional hardwood hammock that happens to be next to impossible to navigate through due to the undergrowth and spider webs that make a blinding curtain of webs. It really sucks, and yet it’s so beautiful. There is nowhere else like it in the world. It is truly a unique environment on this Earth. Folks, who never left their hotel during vacation and actually went into the wilds of Florida, have no business writing about the unlikelihood if such a creature as the Skunk ape.

What skunkhunter said is true, almost all of the population here hugs the coast. Has anyone ever taken a drive down the Florida turnpike? Nothing but trees, bushes, and palmetto scrub for miles.
I talked with some guy who had helped put cell phone towers up in the everglades, and he said he heard and saw some crazy things. He would not elaborate at all, he thought people would think he was crazy.
billgreen2005bigfoot
hi everyone i still think the florida sasquatch exist. i think the bfro or other bigfoot organizations should go on a expedition to look for evidence of the creature etc. bill green
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