8 i say what was learned about bigfoot in the past is hogwash, and we should start anew. first we should take inventory, 500 animals may be closer to the truth, at least 200( 40% ) on the west coast, so that leaves 300 devided by 45 or about 6 per state. the average state is about 55,000 sq. miles so we have roughly 1 bigfoot per 9,000 sq. miles or 1 bigfoot for every New Jersey,( the westest coast climate, does not exist in the east and midwest ) . So it plain to see, that 1 bigfoot could and does elude man in N.J. that's 5 in Pa., 4 in Tenn. etc. So being as rare as they are, it is hard to attribute bigfoot as the answer to all possible weird stuff, done by coyote, big cat, bear, dogs, and who knows what. WHY WOULD A BIGFOOT KILL A COW? MILK? IF these creatures were dangerous we would have been gone a looooong time ago. thankyou

KR, how do you come by your estimates of 500 animals? I believe current thinking is in the range of 1500 - 3000.

Five hundred ????
At that population level, they would never reproduce.

Been to the evergades lately ?Big cypress swamp ? or one of the larger forrested areas in U.S.?(Montana comes to mind,scarce population,lots of cover)And like Rob said with that population # there wouldn't be enough to keep any number of reproduction at a substantial level.Krantz (?) had the estimate at between 1000-2000 on the west coast alone ,in terms of a viable breeding population.Food ?Got tired of the constant,moooo sound ?like the commercial says "you gotta eat!!"

The climate of the west coast(coastal temporate rain forest) indeed does not exist elswhere, but, very good habitat does indeed exist elswhere. Indeed, the deciduous forest of the east, and the mixed forest of the upper midwest, both offer higher fertility than does the evergreen forest of the far west.
Having said all of that, however, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that your idea of a low population is, IMHO right on. I think a bit higher then you, in the neighborhood of 1000-1500 animals, but still I think it is much less than the tens of thousands postulated by some.

8 Please let me explain; i've never read any bigfoot books, i don't watch TV, or go to movies. All i say is based on my findings, not repearting the words of others. i say John Green is wrong about almost all of his stuff, he knows very little about bigfoot, he's a newspaperman. Bindernagel Knows nothing. Byrne knows next to nothing, and Krantz the same. NONE ever saw a bigfoot, they are promoters. BUT some take their word as gospel, these guys aren't even American's! JIM KEEGAN came up with the idea of starting over, use the correct information, use up to date information, and go from there, THE INDEPENDENT RESEARCHERS have the ability to do that. and to Jim in Flordia, didn't mean any offense, i was just making a point about how much space there is in the USA and how un-noticed 1 animal would be. we have bigfoot in areas and we think there are about a dozen good ones in the country, we travel alot, working days are over! and bigfooting is the ultimate FEAR, we love it!

So what?!? :roll:

No offense taken KR. I'd just like to know how you support your data ?You have to have some kind of statistical analysis to back up your findings.I happen to believe Green,Byrne and the others for the work that they have done,but to each their own.Remeber most of Greens data comes from years of studying reports,and sorry but his books are still "the consitution" of BF research.(though there have been a lot of ammendments over the years. )Basically what I'm saying is you have to realize that 500 or less BFs,spread out throughout such a latge region,does not leave room for much of a viable breeding population.Maybe those you mentioned do know nothing.(unlikely,given their time and effort spent on the subject) or maybe what all of us are doing is wrong based on this (also unlikely) But until a better Idea presents itself from a source who can back it up with facts,reports,field experience,or a body or other verifiable,indisputable evidence.I'm not one of them but there are some on this board who by the years alone spent on this,in the field,I would count among Green,Krantz and the others in sheer terms of knowledge and ability alone.They may be unpublished or "laymen",but many of their thoughts and ideas I incorporate into what I do,when I go out .Why ?Because its harder than anything for someone to admit "I don't know." Me,I don't know,not afraid to admit it,and since I don't have a good pic or body part of a BF,I can verify this fact. So I'm more than willing to accept the above mentioned parties as knowing more than me (for the same reasons stated above) and take their advice,mingle it with what I believe,and keep plugging until that 'Better Idea' finally does come along.thats my $.02 for what its worth.

their data and mine greatly differ, i never heard of these guys until i got on the computer, and i say their wrong, they don't cover up their footprints, their not nomadic, their not nocturnal, and if we came from LEMERS then it's not to hard to believe these guys and Orangutans are also. THE POINT ABOUT NOT BEING AMERICANS was this is where the market is, so the greedy rob the innocent ( carnie stuff )

Well, if your data and theirs differs, I'd love to see yours. It'll be easier for me to see your point if you throw some numbers or other info up to support it. Green was studying sasquatch before the word 'bigfoot' entered the language, so It'll be hard for me to dismiss anything he has to say on the subject. As far as the market being down here, Green's in B.C. and they have a right fine population all their own (complete with little maple leaf flags and everything), so we haven't cornered the unknown primate market yet.

Well, i for one, think that "if" they exist, we should HUNT THEM DOWN, assign them a social security number and force tax upon them, just like any other two legged being in this country. I mean, just who do they think they are !?!?!?! Special !!!????!!!! Go git em Kevie !!! (good luck dude) hehe

Rob, you kill me man!!!

kevie ray, I see where you are coming from with the low estimates… but I’m thinking you haven’t given enough value to Sas’s skill at staying unobserved even when people are very close nearby… this ability for concealment would allow a much denser population without any appreciable increase in sightings…

And what about the number of sightings? What % of animals do you think are ever sighted by humans?

Because if it were as low as 1%, then the numbers of Sas would be quite high, and if the number were to be… say 30%, the numbers would still be rather high… but for there to only be a population of 500 in the country, that means these creatures must be very sloppy indeed! And if they are all so careless as to allow themselves to be seen, then why can’t we go view them whenever we wish? Because these 500 must be real idiots! :wink:

Thats my thoughts too RB.


I'm thinking that there is approx 200 (or more) in Maryland alone, and we be a smalllll state

Just some food for thought. http://www.wolverinefoundation.org/research/nrmp01.htm We know wolverines exist,they've been documented several times.What we don't know according to some of the sites I've visited today,are any of the population or dynamics of any of the groups studied.alot of these studies are in centralized areas,and go on to describe the difficulty in finding an animal they know is there,year after year.Rb and I once discussed a doc. we saw on discovery ch. studying bears.and the difficulty the researcher had at first locating the family unit he had studied.Go to any of the search engines and type in : wolverine + population. there are alot of great websites on all kinds of studies involving them,to many for me to throw on 50 or more links for this one point.Which is (drum roll please)....ummm,oh yeah.we can guess all we want at Bf poulation numbers,but even if we bring one in,all its going to do is prove they exist.reading the difficulties the scientists had doing wolvie research,how can we expect they'll even be able to find let alone study their interaction in the wild or anything,and as Rb and Rob pointed out maybe the one thats finally caught/shot/verified will be the stupid one of the group. :wink:

i'm not here to make enemies folks, i'm trying to get some organization started so this thing can be cataloged, and we can get some clearer language in wildlife legislation, that's my ONLY goal. I'm not here to brag either but i been doing this over 50 years. The bigfoot writers of the past lead everyone up a blind alley, because they knew nothing and used half-truths and 2nd and 3rd hand information, mixed with guessing. At least my stuff is original done by me, and i'm already working on SEN. John Hanson of Nevada a Veternarian. And yes i have figured a way to determine how many in an area, and MARYLAND doesn't have 5-6X as many as the Hoopa Valley( bluff creek area ). at that rate California would have 3200 alone. FORGET WHAT IS KNOWN lets start this thing over! FOR INSTANCE Washington State has the most sightings, WHY? Because it's the smallest state in the west and other than Cal., has the most people, the same with PA. it's not 4th in sightings because it has the alot of bigfoot, but because it's small and has alot of people. OREGON has the most bigfoot, and thats not opinion. thankyou

KR, until you provide some data or other evidence to back up what you're saying, it's only opinion! You may be right, I have no idea, but to come in here and start bashing giants in the field (pardon the pun) without anything but your word can't really stand up.

And don't worry about it, you're not making any enemies!

GIANTS, to who????? i've done everything they've done, bigdeal, they won't even put up $$$$$ to back their positions, their all beggers, like the crypto boys. you need to do your own research, because almost all they say is WRONG, of course it's my opinion, the bigfoots aren't going to tell us, and their stuff just doesn't hold up. for instance. NOCTURNAL, not deep in the woods, only when they come out. and no 2 are the same anyway. what do the Giants have to say about that? nothing look bipto, there is a road to bluff creek any writer can go there, that does not make one a GIANT. Green was BOB TITMAS a wanna be, now there is a GIANT, CHIEF ROD DAVIS is a GIANT, to be a GIANT it takes sightings, and lots of them that's why i have no respect for the 4 horseman.

Beggers ???? BEGGERS !?!?!?!?
Listen you , it takes alot of money to create a major field trip, and MOST of us do it out of our OWN pockets, not thru outside funding.
There are giants that have no books or tv shows, they focus on research and data collection. Unlike certain "crypotzoologists" who have a shelf full of books out, and when asked a question regarding behaviour, only say, "Buy my book".
I for one, am in the field ALOT, and i'm not askin anyone for money or time or any damned thing !! AND . i Have had several sightings, tracks, vocals, things thrown near me ... and i've never been to Bluff Creek , so There !

And another thing, whats wrong with asking for funds anyway ??? National Geographic has outside funding, Jane Goodall (angelic music here) does too !!! So hey, lets have a yard sale for Bigfoot !!! Whoopie !!!!
(got a buck so i can get some coffee?)

Hey kr, just a suggestion here... this is the absolute best website you could ever possibly visit for the exchange of ideas, information, etc... we all try to support each other in here... the ass-kicking boots are really not necessary here... how about you slip those things off and slide into some nice soft cozy moccasins and relax?

I recognize your passion for this subject, and I can relate... I think I can also relate to your motives to accomplish something positive and the frustration you must have endured to this point. I also wish to change things for the better... but this is not the way...

So for what it's worth, if you want anyone in here to take you seriously... you may want to start over with a little better attitude and without a chip on your shoulder. Otherwise, it's a huge waste of everyone's time... including mine (and that's all I'm really concerned with... LOL :wink: )

Peace brother. 8)

And these creatures have a lifespan of how long ?

Assuming they exist, then they need to breed - they can't breed if it lives in NJ all by itself can it ?

Kevie Ray, come on back, take up RB's suggestion, and slip into something comfortable and let's chat. I liked a number of the points you made. There is a lot emotion, personal pride, and strong opinion in this game. Regarding Green, as you know, he was a chronicle gathering kind of guy... I agree with your comments on Titmus. Yes, Green would have loved to hang more with that guy. And I am sure that the term :"giants"
is going to be challenged like celebrity status. But you have to understand we only know what we read or hear... and if the communication is not there for us to absorb... we know little or nothing.
Regarding the internet, yeah, there is a lot of crap we have to wade through. But we need some meat to chew on to help separate the meat from the other nondigestibles.
I think more ought to be discussed about the differences of opinions and why... you can't sway people without helping us see some of your take.
So sit a spell and let us have it. Great stuff. And by the way, Welcome Dude.

Sorry, SR, Kevie Ray stepped over the line with his last post. He won't be coming back...

Oh.... ...... at least I didn't have anything to do with this THIS time

Hey Bipto, saw the post Medic used to describe the guy. Understood.
Guess with some people there is simply no reasoning.