I was reading some posts from the Tennessee Bigfoot Lady's page, and this one regarding feeding and donations for food was quite interesting. Any comments? Is feeding actually done artificially during primate research?

by Mary Green (Login bigfootlady)
Forum Owner

I was thrown inadvertently into an area where the bigfoot thrived at the age of 17. I spent 38 years of experiencing their antics also. I met Janice when she contacted me from my TN Bigfoot Lady web site. I am so thrilled to relate to someone else who has had many more close hand experiences than myself. I know she's telling me things that I myself have experienced but I never had the privilege of seeing them close at hand. I've seen their eyes in the windows, their tall shadows late at night when they passed in the yard, heard their screams, had them enter my house also and steal food from the freezer on a continuing basis, leaving my doors open too. I've heard the soft thump thump of their feet in the basement directly under where I slept. Janice has experiences worse than these and Fox came in and took a hold of her legs one night when she was around 8 years old if I remember correctly. NEITHER of us wanted these experiences nor sought them!

I went into bigfoot research to find out the truth about them and especially for my children's sake who had many more sightings of them and closer than I did. I used to tell them it was a bear or that they just saw something strange, etc. and they remember this to this day. It took them a while to forgive me for not believing their outrageous claims! I had to see one fairly close myself first, I guess. That didn't happen for many years.

So now Janice and I both in our time were presented with the problem of "telling" what we experienced. Janice's claims are extremely unusual and therefore difficult to grasp and believe. I can't express how it is living with this day in and day out and coming to finally accept it as a normal day to day part of your existence. You DO though and then when you wish to talk to others about it, they laugh at you.

So now the truth is out and I am working on my own autobiography currently. Janice and myself are not seeking any limelight. We want to be left alone to finish the task of gathering all pertinent physical data. It's tough and tough going. One thing Janice has in abundance is hair, and lots of it. She also has scat and an over abundance of that too. Time will get the results she needs!

One thing we do need help with and that is donations for food expenses as it's costly and not fair for just a few persons to carry the burden of it. Whatever is donated to Janice is not as much as she personally spends on the bigfoot food herself. Many do not know this. Rick Cruz has offered to help and Janice is embarrassed by offers to help. I am in the process of setting up a fund for monies to feed the bigfoot there. It cost a fortune to feed them and that is what was Robert Carter's final downfall. Little known facts are Mr. Carter cleaned out his bank account feeding them before he died. His health got bad. Eventually he had to quit feeding them and then he had to contend with the bigfoot knocking on the house and trailer of his daughter and suffering ongoing property damage from them.

The bigfoot are into everything there and Will can vouch for the fact that he came to visit one day and Janice was busy at something. He went to look around a bit and in one wooded area he found many of the children's toys and many very nice china dishes just laying there all around this area. He went to get Janice and took her there and showed her. She had NO idea that the bigfoot had gotten into her cabinets and carried off her best china! I don't think any of the dishes were broken, but this area was not capable of being accessed by any of her children either. It's things like that which goes on and now that we're trying to help Janice feed the bigfoot in order to obtain clear video and other physical evidence, including DNA samples, donations would be appreciated. I am not talking about folks who want to donate to gain access to the property either.

If and when we get this set in place, I will post the information and announce where to send any feeding donations to Janice. She knows what her grandfather fed them and what they like and what they will eat, as no one else does. She alone helped her grandfather feed them for many years.

We were asked to send our book to the Art Bell show and be interviewed but no dice right now. We don't seek national attentional nor need it. We've had it up to our ears with those who say we're doing this to get rich. When I get accused of doing this to get rich by e-mail, I just write back and tell the person that YES, I am going to get rich off of this! Har har har! That is why I did everything in the bigfoot research world is to get a name for myself and get rich! DREAM ON. It's the scientist who will make anything from any of this, we are doing the leg work and paying the way to hand to them on a silver platter what they should be doing in the first place and get paid to do!

I would like to prove to the world that bigfoot does exist just as any other sane bigfoot researcher does, and I believe this is possible to prove that bigfoot is a very physical creature and capable of much more than first thought. Janice and her Grandfather's experiences help prove this.

Another way to help us continue our work is for those of you to recommend our book to others and help sell it and the CD. All proceeds go towards bigfoot research, helping Janice and I with expenses.

The main thing is we need to keep feeding the bigfoot and that takes a huge chunk out of Janice's time every day. She has sources that donate their opened or damaged bags of feed and a store that gives her the vegetables they are going to throw away. Janice and Paul get them when they can but sometimes there is nothing. As with ANY OTHER primate research project food is the most important thing.

I hope this helps others to see where our hearts lie in this matter. It may be that it will eventually bring some fame and fortune, but I for one don't welcome it at this point. My heart lies in getting the physical proof, the DNA proof, and NOT the damned video's as they are STILL arguing over the Patti Film!

Mary

Does anyone know when this letter was written?

RB- It was posted on January 15, 2003. You can read this post as well as others regarding the Tennessee Bigfoot farm here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/230726

Here's the reason why this disturbs me a bit. When researchers feed animals for the purpose of drawing them close for photos, they program those animals to associate humans with food. We've all seen and heard this warning before. It just isn't a sound thing to do. The premise of Squatches being lured with food is ultimately going to harm them. If these creatures have been feeding at this farm for as long as it has been claimed, then they have undoubtedly had a detrimental change in diet, instinct, and social structure/inherited survival values. I feel that this practice of feeding is built on good intentions, but is a bad thing to do. Anyone agree with this?

GG, i agree completely. if this is indeed happening, feeding is not a good thing. plus, to hear that they get disruptive when not fed, only adds to the case.


i may get flamed for this but.....

if feeding them is so expensive and they demand such a steady stream of food, then they must come by on a semi-daily basis. VERY frequently, to say the least. if so, then why is it so hard to get decent photograph? i know, i heard the nocturnal(sp?), camera shy arguments, but i can't help but think something better than the 'shadowy 2 bigfoot among the trees' picture could have been produced after all these years.

i guess i'm just anxious to see more stuff

You'll get no flaming from me, NBH.

I've been wondering the same thing. I mean, we're not talking about a bunch of stupid seagulls that will become acclimated to being fed by people to the point that they're dependent on hand outs. I've got the same argument with our state fisheries commission. They have decided that feeding dolphins could possibly make them dependent on people for food and that they'd end up starving to death if that food source were to become unavailable. It boggles my mind that these idiots give so little credit to the intelligence of dolphins. In my opinion, it would be the equivalent of living in a grocery store and someone thinking you'd become to stupid to get food off the shelves if you had someone bring you a hamburger once in a while.

In the case of sasquatch, I believe the same line of thinking would apply. So, in that vein, we can deduce that sasquatch are highly intelligent and extremely resourceful creatures who are masters at avoiding detection everywhere in the continental United States with the exception of one locale in Tennessee where, for some unknown reason, they happen to be village idiots that can't find food for themselves and are completely dependent on the people who live around them for sustenance and yet they are still able to avoid detection by those same people who live in their midst even though they're allegedly grabbing people by the feet and shaking them when they're in their beds sleeping and yet no one can get a simple photograph.

Como???

That just doesn't hold water. If anyone thinks it does, please contact me if you're interested in some nice, high, dry Florida land. I can get you an exceptionally good deal. :wink:

The main part I have a problem with on this is that these statements are being made as if NOT FEEDING them will cause them harm. Come on!

Where else on the planet do bigfoot RELY on humans for food?

I don't see it as a necessity and like NBH and GG, I think it could in the long run cause more harm than good. JMHO

I am a bit busy right now, however as the only outsider who has been there, let me try to clarify in the interests of science:

1. None of you smart people would be asking these uninformed questions if you had read the book by Green and Coy. As Huxley said about Darwin in 1859 or so: Those who would critique the work must read it. Darwin was flamed all over the world when he wrote Origin of Species, by those who thought they knew what it said but had never read it. Green and Coy's book is also astounding and revolutionary with regard to bigfoots. Until now, nobody had any detailed information about them whatever, of any kind. Many of us who have read it are sort of amused that people are flaming their book just like the world press and public flamed Darwin.

2. No the bigfoots there have not become dependent on the feedings. They just tend to get rambunctious when they come back to the farm after raiding the neighbors cattle and decimating the local deer and finding their feed bucket empty. Like bang on the house at night. They can get along fine, and for several years after Grandfather died they did not get fed. They do not need feeding, but they like it and sometimes their demands can be fairly intimidating. They are not tame and the males weigh about 1000 lbs. You gotta feed em or they will tear it down and when you go to town they will break in. Alternative to feeding spoiled bigfoots is to move out and abandon the place.

3. Nobody ever succeeded in geting a single photo in all those years. You cannot imagine how quick they leap the fences and leave your sight when you pull a camera out and try to point it at them. Speculation that they should be readily photographed by us cunning humans is based on a failure to appreciate how wary and clever and elusive they are, and always have been. They never stand out in the open, never did. They never pose. Now they have gone entirely nocturnal, since so much brush has been cut off the place. They are suspicious of any technology you might carry, the mini buttonhole camera, the minitape recorder, the little disposable camera, the strap on your chest 35 mm with cable release in your hand, the camcvorder shot from the waist...all tried, all failed over and over.

4. I am working at night using thermal imaging that is cloaked and concealed. They will never find it or spot it. But they might know it's there anyway, if my behavior or my thought s give it away. A fascinating challenge for me to control and discipline my own thoughts and attention away from the equipment. If you don't think this self-discipline is necessary, maybe you havent had enough failures yet.

5. There may be some who think the whole story about this farm is poppy-cock. Let me assure you that it is the real deal. However there is no proof.

6. What could be shown the public or a cynical press that will "prove" it? It will require clear video of an extended duration (not just several seconds or a long glimpse, but enough to study) and perhaps some audio when they are talking to show the speech. We expect to have video and audio of an interaction between Fox and Janice soon, within the next month or two. Objective crtitics should meantime reserve judgement. Those who just cant restrain their instinct for flaming will have to eat crow.

Ha! That's where you made your first mistake!

Who said I was smart? Some dirty liar.... or maybe just uninformed....

But really now, let's not get ahead of ourselves... a book is just that... a book.... one of personal views and opinions....

There is not a book on this subject that has been printed that can be called accurate (not saying they're not, you just cannot call them that).... oh I have faith, but until it is proved to everyone's satisfaction, a book is, unfortunately nothing more than quite insightful conjecture....

We must all resist the urge to take one or several persons views as gospel...

The answers will come in short order, I'm sure. And no one will even come close to eating crow... once a discovery is made, all past indiscretions and varying viewpoints will become moot. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying I'm willing to bet money that's how it will transpire...

I don't think anybody's flaming anybody here. We've got some folks on this board who need more than someone's word before they'll believe a story as unusual as this one. I'm not saying it's true or untrue, but it does stretch the limits of what I'm willing to believe without a bit more evidence. And just because someone wrote it in a book doesn't make it any better...


Are you saying they read you mind or that you subconsciously tip them off?

Thermal1- Please don't take my post as a flame. That was not my intention. I just wanted to discuss the ramifications of feeding a BF population over time. I have a great interest in your viewpoints and the book in question. I think I'm actually going to order it

I asked this in an earlier post, but I'll ask again in case you missed it. Since the BF's are so in tune to photographic trickery, have you not considered stationary motion-triggered cameras? They can be concealed quite well, and if insulated properly, will not make much noise when activated. Also, what about a telephoto shot from afar? Surely, their sensory abilities diminish with distance, so would this be an option?

Please keep us up to date on all the happenings at the farm. Remember, nobody here is out to judge you. We're just starving for information and honest answers to our questions. Thanks Therma1!!!

I am most certainly not flaming you or Mary Green or Janice Coy. However, I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, Thermal. No animosity from me at all. I think Bipto summed it up best;



...and the only thing I could add as a weight to that statement is the fact that we all know Al Gore created this wonderful Internet that we're using.

Peace

Although I would love to believe this story its a little hard to believe that a group of these creatures frequently visit this farm for years and not one photo, or sound clip has emerged. I am very interested in this place, if everything said is true. But if I lived there I'd be scared to death I mean com'on a 1000 pound creature comes into your house! Into your bedroom and touches you!!! Holly Christmass in July!!!! If that were me I'd probably sit up see this huge animal at the foot of my bed and s**t my pants literally then pass out in a pool of my own piss!!!! These people say they know these creatures, and know they wonder thier property and thier house if they were to plant motion sencored cameras in every room and outside a picture would have to emerge. Besides if they know these creatures isn't thier trust between them?

First of all, why is that? Why are you the only "outsider" that has been allowed in there? I asked Janice to go a while back and wasn't even bothered with a reply AT ALL!



Well now I see you are barking way up the wrong tree. I did buy the book when it was first released for sale and I have read most of it! My questions are NOT uninformed as you say. I know everything that has been publicly released about this story. But I can also say that NOTHING has been proven that was written in the book. I was willing to stand back and wait for the proof and give this whole thing the benefit of the doubt without saying a word, but when someone asks a logical question and gets a retort like this for an answer, well that just tells me that the person is just a little too defensive for no apparent reason.



There are many istances where bigfoot bang on people's homes. I had it happen to me. I was NOT EVER feeding them. That isn't what causes them to bang on homes. What is going to happen when Janice can no longer feed them? Who does it then? They had been left alone for several years from 1993 to 2000 (?) was it? They got along fine then. Baiting for photos, study efforts, or video is one thing, but to make claims that someone NEEDS financial support to feed the creatures is another thing entirely. I still believe wild animals are best left to fend for themselves when possible. Feeding them to begin with is apparently what caused them to begin relating food with humans and thus caused their more aggressive side to show when they were no longer receiving it. It only gets worse the more the vicious circle continues. IMHO it should be discontinued. But that's just me.



But you are going to be the ONE PERSON who can pull it off right? You stated it could happen in less than a month. Everyone ELSE must've been doing something wrong then or just not trying hard enough?



Is this the same kind of telepathy Janice was talking about when she referred to the bigfoot (Fox) playing a "movie" in her head of dead mutilated bodies? So you think they are telepathic in this manner, where they can not only read your thoughts, but relay their own back to you as well?



And therein lies the dilemma. I really truly believe the proof should have been forthcoming before this whole thing was brought to the public's attention. Then the whole he said/she said thing could have been avoided. Human nature demands proof. Science demands proof. That is just a natural reaction to what we are told. If you also tell me Superman is real and you have met him, I will also ask for proof. What is wrong with demanding proof? If we believe everything we are told, we are in for a long ride.



No one was flaming here. Everyone was curious and only asked a few questions and stated a few of their own opinions. I have defended Mary and Janice from the beginning and from things Janice had said, I had believed there were even bigfoot on that farm. But even so, some of her claims go a little too far for even the most open-minded person to swallow.
That NEEDS to be understood. So when you come to a message forum and pose questions....expect opinions from others....and be ready to answer a few yourself.

Peace to you....as I have no intention of flaming you or anyone else, but I also see no reason why I can't state my own opinion, especially when you asked for it.

I couldn't agree more. When amazing claims are made with no supporting evidence then how else are we to respond? This is a field littered with outrageous hoaxes and lies that do nothing but distract from the real work at hand (Wallace anyone?). The good researchers must react skeptically even to the most mundane report because of this type of stuff. To expect us to blindly go along with a story like this one just because a few folks tell us it's the real deal just isn't realistic.

Mind you, I'm not saying all this is a lie or a hoax. There may indeed be sasquatch activity on that farm. The hard part is separating the wheat from the chaff and if the response is always going to be "shut up and trust us" then you might as well keep it to yourself until you have something more concrete to show.

interesting thread, by the way I haven't been able to visit Mary Green's webpage, sez it has consumed too much bandwidth and is temp unavailable.
Thermal1, don't be so defensive, this is the sanest forum about Bigfoot you'll find and everyone wants to believe, but the fantastic nature of these claims invites skepticism. It's simply human nature. I'm sure everyone here looks forward to seeing this relationship between man and sasquatch proven true.

For those who don't know, there's a related thread regarding this story here:

Feeding Bigfoot?

Spork, Mary Green has moved her website from the angelfire one to one with it's own domain space.

Here is the new address: http://www.tnbigfootlady.com

First you must all know what a pleasure for me to participate in this levelof enlightened discussion. This topic always tends to veer sharply towards incivility on other boards. I appreciate your restraint and intelligence here. This place is great.

Yes it is too darn bad we have no proof, but that is not fatal. So far the whole accumulated experience with bigfoot is not proof, just more evidence. All our best evidence consists of reputable honest people reporting what they saw, or think they saw, lots of tracks, and some fingerprints and some DNA and hair samples that have been identified as belonging to an Unknown Primate. That's it.

I do not concur with the view that this new book by Green and Coy should have been withheld from publication pending more better "proof." My preference is for all of us researchers to be aware of the detailed information that is in the book now, as soon as possible, and not to have Green and Coy withhold this information until somebody figures out how to get "proof." Just my opinion.

Green and Coy's decision to publish now was consistent with the tradition of research on other mysterious fringe topics where proof is hard to obtain. That is, one should publish what is available, if yet unproven, so as to add to the state of our knowledge. Crop circles, animal mutilations, and alien abductions, for example. Many people do not believe in them, there is not much evidence or proof, yet many useful contributions to their understanding and study have been published.

Green and Coy's bigfoot book is in this same tradition. It is not a zoology book, it does not really "prove" the existence of bigfoot, it does not completely explain their psychology or culture, and it seems to raise many new questions while answering others. Yet it contributes greatly to understanding. I am glad it is available now. There is no other reference in the world providing this level of detail about bigfoot.

If you have not read it, you must have a serious research interest in bigfoot to be reading this, so my advice is to read it right away. You owe it to yourself to keep up to speed, and to make your own informed conclusions.

Hopefully somebody will read the book, understand my problems obtaining video and audio, and will think of clever way to get video and audio of a quality that we hope for. If you do, let me know?

Good luck yall in your own research! I am the guy screaming in the woods, so say hi. Better yet say it in Cheyenne. Oh, make that Chinook Jargon in Oregon. --Thermal

Thermal, I am also hoping that something comes of this. However, you are really a bit overly defensive of some very good questions. None of the questions asked are "uninformed". Indeed, they are required to be asked, and addressed, if this is to be taken seriously. Like the rest here, I really hope this is a true case, but getting defensive and upset about perfectly legitimate questions is not the best way to convince us..

." What could be shown the public or a cynical press that will "prove" it? It will require clear video of an extended duration (not just several seconds or a long glimpse, but enough to study) and perhaps some audio when they are talking to show the speech. We expect to have video and audio of an interaction between Fox and Janice soon, within the next month or two. Objective crtitics should meantime reserve judgement. Those who just cant restrain their instinct for flaming will have to eat crow"

Unfortunatly, in this day and age of amazing special effects and video capabilities, I am not sure that even the best video footage would do the trick. Many, even most, will simply say its fake no matter how good it is.
I think some sort of physical evidence is still going to be needed. Maybe there is an opportunity here, however, with the scatt and other physical evidence at the location, to combine with top quality footage to prove the existnance of the things without having to bring in a body. Hope so.

Understand your point. I just cant prove it yet to the public beyond telling you what I have personally observed there.

I tell it like I see it. As you noticed, I do not appreciate having my veracity or my own eyeballs questioned. Sorry if my skin wears a bit thin when somebody states that what I am reporting is bull. Not you of course.

The more outrageous comments come from people who state that the book is just a total cash-cow hoax, and they will never read it. There is probably no cure for knee-jerk cynicism. I am sort of sorry for them. Must have some real misery in their lives.

As for a profit motive driving this book, that's absurd. When I went to the farm, I saw no signs of affluence at all. Also no attention was being paid to book sales. The focus on the farm is to redevelop a trustful relationship with the bigfoots and further this research. The old trust of many years was shaken last summer when a camera was pulled on Fox (no he got away too fast to snap a picture), and it has not yet returned to its former level.

When it does, if it does, proof should be obtainable. Meanwhile I invite you to read up on this and raise whatever new questions and topics of further study that appeal to your own curiosity. Honest answers will be given to the extent known.

That's the problem...this statement is said as if it is declaring the book as factual and useful "evidence" when it is only observational opinion of one person at best. One person will not see things exactly the same way as another. She had most of her encounters as a child and teenager, which leaves us going only on the objectivity of a child. While I believe there may be bigfoot on Janice's farm, I have only her "word" and "opinion" to go on for proof of her claims. I want to believe a lot of what she says, but I can't just take anyone's word for anything. No one has heard the supposed language usage except Janice. No one has seen them doing most of the things published in the book except Janice.
You haven't and Mary hasn't. We are going only on the word of one woman that none of us know. Even her sister, Lila, did not see most of these things.

Sure you can go there to Tennessee and view footprints and hair and other evidence that says the are there, but that still does not prove any of the main statements about their habits that Janice has made. Period.
Even pictures will not prove the things she has claimed. Only after a lengthy study under close observation can she be proven right or wrong. I think taking this information in the book without a little skepticism would be wrong and possibly even impeding to honest bigfoot research. We can't rely on that which cannot be proven.

You can't make statements about the authenticity of the claims in the book or about Janice's statements about them until such time as they have been proven to be seen and documented by more than just one woman. You weren't there when they happened.

Please don't take this offensive because I do not mean this in a rude sort of way...I only wish to make you understand where we "the outsiders" stand on this. It is hard to swallow all of it.

I applaud your efforts in this and I truly hope you get the proof you seek. I am hopeful for it and wish you and Mary the best of luck.

Thermal1- Thanks for realizing the genuine interests of the people inhabiting this board. We are all very interested and supportful of your cause. I have yet another question for you, if you don't mind.

You've spoken about the sharing of a common "language" between the farm and the BF's. If this is gone over in detail in the book (which I am planning on ordering soon), forgive my inquirey now. I would like to know to what extent this communication has taken. Is there a possibility that you could explain to them that a camera is not a soul-stealing device, but one that humans use to enjoy the image of a friend when not with them? Also, with the ESP abilities that these BF's have, why is there still so much distrust? I think that yourself and the women on the farm have nothing but the best intentions for these friends. Couldn't there be a way to mentally convince these creatures that proof of their existence would ultimately benefit their species? Protected status and private land tract aquisitions could all be just a detailed photograph away (although more would ultimately be needed, this would be a great start). I still believe that an up close, detailed photo of a natural, flesh and blood Sasquatch will be beyond what the best photoshop job could produce. If that statement was not true, we would have seen unbelievable pictures that show more than just far off images or obvious fakes.

Has anyone communicated with these BF's and received an answer of why they refuse to allow themselves to be observed by visitors to the farm? I understand the soul-stealing argument, but what about a simple close up eye to eye contact with someone?

Arkansan, thanks for the link!!

You're quite welcome Spork!

I have visited the website linked above by Arkansan and I am wondering if anyone else has had problems seeing anything in the photos?

Well, I'm not sure which one's you're talking about specifically, but last time I was there I didn't see anything in any of them!

And thank you for hanging around to discuss the issue! I know it would be easier to just drift away when presented by a wall of skepticism. You're taking the harder path here and I appreciate that.

I'm not sure which photos you are referring to. But if you mean the ones regarding the Tennessee farm claims, I can see just as much in them as I can see in most of the other "blob" photos out there. :wink:

I really hope I am not being too overly sceptical here, but...
The "bigfoot scat" photos on the page that Arky linked, look exactly like that of racoon. In aparent size, shape, and color/consistency, that looks identical to the racoon scat I am familiar with. And, racoons commonly pick a spot and use it repeatedly as a latrine area. This spot is often in a barn or shed or other sheltered location.
Now, I am NOT saying that is what it is, just that it looks just like it, and therefore can not be considered as strong evidence of BF.
A prime candidate for further testing, however.
Again, I know it looks like I am being overly sceptical of this, but I am really not trying to be. But, when I see things being presented as evidence that could easily be something more mundane(as in the scat photos), I have to remain on the somewhat sceptical side until more convincing evidence is put forth.
Once again, however, I really do hope for the best, and hope that the proof promised in this case does indeed become evident.

Do not know if coon scat, it would have to be some big coons! Samples have been taken by others, they are being analyzed. Hair from those boards was already analyzed and determined from "unknown primate."

The most intersting aspect of this poop barn to me is how the bigfoots take that scat periodically and rake it to the edges and scatter fresh hay all over the loft. This happened again last week. They carried fresh dry hay from a different barn all across the pasture to this poop barn and scattered it all over the hayloft like a carpet. Looks poosible they are preparing a winter nursery for little Squeaky and Nikki's baby.

Was this DNA analysis or comparative analysis? Do you know who made this determination?


So how much direct observation of these animals is taking place? It they've been given names and it's known that one impregnated another, I'm thinking a lot of observation would be required (which again begs the questions about photographic evidence, but I'll stop beating that dead horse for a while). How many animals do you think are around the farm? What are all their names? Is this thought to be an extended family group?

Finally, any animal that's preparing to raise it young in its own filth isn't planning on having very many young...

I would like to ask, how you KNOW for sure it was bigfoot that scattered the hay? Couldn't it have been "somebody" that did it?

How close of a watch is being kept on this farm by outsiders such as yourself, in order to make sure no tampering or planting is going on while you aren't there or while you aren't watching?

As far as the poop goes, I know absolutely NO animal or human who sleeps near where they poop. I'm sorry, but a creature as smart as bigfoot would not do that intentionally IMHO, and would definitely have the smarts NOT to give birth or keep young offspring on top if it either.

And keep in mind that "unknown primate" could also include humans as the suspect when we don't know the details surrounding the tests. It isn't good solid evidence alone and can also be planted.

Bipto, there is a "family" unit of bigfoot on that farm.

Fox being the oldest male (60+ yrs.), then Sheba (or Shebah as Janice spells it), his mate. Then there's Blackie, the mean one that supposedly raped the teenage girl and put her in an institution. Let's see, just getting these off the top of my head, there's the younger female Nicky (funny how no one associated with this actually spells the names the same way, this is Janice's spelling of it) who is the pregnant one now and the young males, Bo and Squeeky (this also Janice's spelling).

Oh and let's don't forget the one baby that died and was buried on the neighbor's property.

So that's makes 6 live ones, 1 dead one and one on the way. :wink:

WHAT!?! Are you telling me there's supposed to be a dead one burried somewhere? OK, I'll bite, where is it now?

Oh it's still there. According to Janice, they can't dig it up because...

1. The neighbor won't allow them to dig on his property.
2. They are afraid of upsetting the bigfoot family by digging up a family member's grave.

You asked!

...Nocturnal subterranean corpus delecti retrevial???...

Who ya' gonna call?

....Ninja dog... 8)

In fact Blackie left years ago. Sheba has been dead a few years now. It's down to 4: Fox, Nikki his daughter, Bo her mate, and Squeaky, about the size of a 3-year old human. who is evidently an orphan who they are taking care of. Not theirs, but they feed it and protect it. So the total is 4, and Nikki is preganant with first baby.

The size of the bigfoot poop in the hayloft certainly is not all large, much of it appears to be Squeaky-sized. So I guess they do where they please then clean it out periodically.

That is how I interpreted what I saw and smelled. Your speculations to the contrary are taken as healthy skepticism not an affront to intelligence or integrity or lack of experience.

There were no witnesses, so an analysis and identification of origin of the poop samples needs to come back before we know for sure. Has not come back yet that I know of.

If you like this poop topic, it recalls a discovery near Mt St Helens last year of a sort of cocoon-like nest in the ground that was a bigfoot shelter. One guy crawled into it to check it out, later had to throw his clothes away, never could get the smell out. Anyway next to the entrance was a pile of poop between 2 little trees where the bark had been sort of polished or worn by holding on. Not inside but close. There was no scat definitely reported in the cocoon-thing, but it sure smelled like it. This was BFRO report somewhere around Morton WA, I think, investigated for BFRO by Kevin Lindley.

What happened to Sheba's body? Is it buried somewhere on the property too?





As well it should be as I can speak for Nightwing's manners. Lack of experience however has nothing to do with it as you have no experience in bigfoot poop either. Nightwing was relating his experience, not the lack thereof.

Thought I'd bump this back to your attention Thermal since you never answered them.

And while I am bringing this up....these went unanswered too.








I am anxiously awaiting responses to these questions.

*while balancing on the fence* ... i think there is some real stuff goin on there ... you can back reference alot of whats being said to older reports of behavior and sightings. But there seems to be alot of "green data" here too, which should recieve some skeptisim, as ALL green data should. Thats what research is about, looking at the green data and either rejecting it or accepting it as actual data.

*I'll read the book, and wait for the movie before i comment further )

The only thing I ever got riding the fence was splinters in my butt!!!

That old barn must be very well constructed to hold all that weight in the loft...

Has anyone tested the loft to determine if it will hold several thousand pounds without collapse or damage?

Uh oh....not another question! He hasn't answered the other ones yet!

Thanks for the additional info Thermal. I am simply looking at the photos, and comparing size of the "bigfoot" scat to other objects in the pictures, and can say with a fairly strong degree of confidence that it is not particularly large for racooon. Racoon scat is often the size of med. size dog, and when compared that in the photos, is very similar. The color, and "aparent" consistency are also consitent with racoon.
Again, not to say that it is not just what it is claimed(bigfoot scat), but that on the surface, it has very appearance of being something a bit more mundane.
If as you say, there has been some scientific testing done that determined a different origin, I for one would be very interested in the details.
Thanks also for understanding that we are really interested in getting to the bottom of the matter, and are not just being knee-jerk sceptics.

I have to agree with Arkansan, too many unanswered questions and the claims made are too fantastic for anyone to get defensive about the veracity of these accounts. I find it especially hard to imagine all this activity taking place over decades escaping the attention of neighbors, local townspeople, authorities, etc. As for the alleged rape victim, I would like to know what was told to the authorities when she was institutionalized, did she ever recover from the experience and reenter society, has she made any comment, etc.

Coming into this late,and I don't mean to be impolite but unfortunately I don't have as much time to dink around as I used to and do have to go with my first or gut reaction on alot as of late.To many questions and as far as I can tell not a single verifiable fact.Several questions were asked that were legimate to anyone who has ever questioned anything in this field.No offense ,Thermal 1 but if you want to have the "research" taking plcae on this farm as fact,at least be able to back up what is being reported with proof.Anyone here could probably write a fairly convincing book of reports and or sightings.It doesn't make it true.It just means they have a grasp of literature and a good publisher.I have not read the book,and most likely, by what has been reported by those who have never will.Simple solution,invite an outside party to the farm to see for themselves what is going on,obtain photos or other proof for analysis by a scientific agency to add legitimacy to the claims.Otherwise thats all they are, "claims".I have many more questions but I'll wait until some of the others are answered before posting them.Since many of mine are repeats of what has already been asked and not answered.

OMG! A movie! Great idea, Rob...


Good point, RB!

Here's something else from Mary's letter that's been bugging me:


*SIGH* Would any parent here not look at that situation and immediately assume it was the kids who dragged the dishes off into the woods so they could play house or something? I mean, they were found with the kid's toys for crying out loud. I'm not sure what "this area was not capable of being accessed by any of her children" means. Are her children somehow disabled? Were the dishes found at the bottom of a treacherous crevasse? It's this kind of jumping to the most unlikely conclusion that casts a cloud over the entire saga.

Another telling quote:


You can say that again! For once, something I entirely agree with!

As you can see, I'm nowhere near the fence at this point. I'm more over by the pool on a chasie lounge sipping a drink with an umbrella in it.

One more thing! Thermal, it sure does look like were all ganging up on you. It's not you, it's the story were' ganging up on! As the purveyor of this little corner of cyberspace, I'd like to extend and official invitation to Janice or Mary to come on over and tackle some of our questions themselves. I'm not 'challenging' anyone here; this isn't that kind of place. I'm just saying they're more then welcome to come over here and help us out with some of these doubts. If you could pass that along next time you talk to either of them, I'd appreciate it!

I don't think he said it had "already" been tested. I think he said it had been collected and is "being" tested now. I just hope the results will be announced for all to see...even if they are negative.