must be successful, looks like they're rolling out with a dozen for 2005.....east and west coast. good for them.

That's interesting. When I spoke to Matt in September, he told me that there probably wouldn't be any more expeditions in the foreseeable future, since he'd have to concentrate on the Fox show he's working up. I wonder what happened? I hope this doesn't mean anything went wrong with the Fox show.

Why do you say good for them?

They mission is not to bring back BF. Which is part of the problem....
And the rusults are predictiable....

BF tracks , eye shine, vocals, scate, wood nocking, ect. My point is it does not change...

with the amount they charge the could get night vision video, and instead of running in the opps direction when hearing sounds or wood nocking or eye shine, follow it with two in tow, for protection....

I'm not a proponent of killing a bipedal primate like ourselves, so I'm not concerned with them not bringing back a body. A dozen expeditions increases the possibility of getting choice photos, so "good for them" and "good for me".

We have photos, and all every says its fake, man in suit, or unidentifable, or the one i love the most, It a hyaena lol

As you know Iam in the bring them back alive or dead camp.

They don't "run in the other direction" and they are in the business of 1) attempting to collect evidence, and 2) training others to collect evidence. The expedition was a great experience in itself, but I can't tell you how much I learned that will be valuable to me in my research here locally. And people know I went. I've already gotten two contacts about sightings in VA and MD (and I understand from Mel S. that there is another being worked in MD also). So good for them, AND good for us.

I will no way no how shoot a BF. I think if you shoot one, you should get the chair. Just my opinion, of course..

Thats good and thats your opion and I respect that. But For me its either way.
as I recall on one of the trips two girls were on the edge of the woods, somthing was there just inside the woods and the girls asked to move so they did , and two other went where the girls were, uninformed of why, and had the same experiance. To scard to push the envelope and go in the woods.

My thought is you can collect all the evidence you want , but with no body you got nothing...

You got BF killing dogs and soforth, banging on peoples houses, chaseing them out of the woods, and so on.
If BF is agressive I will be agressive, if he is calm I will be calm. Iam not saying that Should I have the chance to see him stip out on a trail , and wave for me to come over and have a beer , or a leg of dear with him, that I would shoot him. only the aggressive who require it. And I dont mean being aggressive because he protecting his family.

Well Dragoon, when you get that body, you let us know, OK?

I wish the BFRO much success with any expeditions they see fit to undertake. One day I hope the "southern" members of the organization will see fit to have an expedition here in the southern states. I would be so there!

I'm not going to get into what happened on the other trips....that dog has been beat to death. I'm just really proud of these people for having the intestional fortitude to get out there and try to get the job done.

How would you determine upon seeing a bigfoot whether he was protecting his family aggressively, or whether he was the sort of aggressive animal you think should be shot? How would you tell the difference?

Why do you believe the aggressive animals "require" being shot? I'm interested in your reasons.

I'd be pleased as pooh if an expedition comes back with a decent photo, an observation of a behaviour, a chattering recording, whatever. Evidence is evidence, science already says sasquatch doesn't and can't exist, so who gives a rats arse what they have to say about any new 'evidence'. Put weight in what you think, f' everyone else.

Chronic..........

You know Jaylee, If I should ever get that lucky, I will remember you,, lol


ARsquath... If you step out on a trail And he drops to all fours , and runs at you. well there your clue, you are now being challenged... do you run, shoot, or become bait?? if you see wee one or little BF, and mom and dad ar there , well dad will be agressive.. As noted in primates and humans...


And if you dont know your history, MAN has be getting rid of aggressive animales as long as we been in the world... and we are still doing it today. when you are threatened, by a grizz, and its you or him you can decide your fate. live or die...

Dont missunderstand, I am NOT saying shoot all agressive animals. Its fight or flight, Preditor or Prey

Chronic, dont we allready have recordings, as all that stuff, ??? what diff is Anew recording going to make?? A new pic will be viewed thet same as all others, we need a body...

What expert determined this behavioral trait and how many times has this been witnessed to verify said trait?

Fishbone do you have to be an expert to know if your being challenged, I sure the heck dont. Its call common sence, IF a rock hits you in the head, do you have to ask if a rock hit you in the head? Be back monday time to go...

Being hit in the head with a rock is an apples and oranges comparison. And please allow me to rephrase that question...what layperson has witnessed a bigfoot drop to all fours and make a charge? Anyone? Bueller? And if...IF that has been witnessed, has it been witnessed multiple times among multiple creatures to determine for a fact...A FACT, that this is indeed a behavioral trait? I hardly think so.

[edit] In other words, we're only discussing your personal speculation and opinion.

[edited further to add] Not that there's anything wrong with speculation and opinion. It simply shouldn't be stated as if it were a known fact.

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but the Patterson film is what, 15 seconds? I could go for about 100 hours of crystal clear film observing a sasquatch hunting deer/pigs/fish-n-birds, communicating with eachother in whatever fashion they may, snapping young trees, setting up territory markers, spooking the snot out of a couple unsuspecting campers, surviving an Alaskan winter without fire.....you know, entertaining stuff you can watch over and over and over.

All I have right now is a female sasquatch taking a dozen steps and turning her head.
That's nifty, but we can do better. My bet is the BFRO expeditions help that along.


A body won't show me any of the above, though it would certainly be cool to look at......'course if he was shot in the back of the head with a high calibre, there won't be much of a face left to observe.

Talk about a never ending question.......




Don't mind me I'm just watchin
Robert

I'm not sure the "dads" are the only animals to fear both in the animal world and human world, though I've never seen a human drop to all fours to attack. I do know that a woman who is a mother in *most* cases will scratch your eyes out and make mush of your family jewels if you look like you're going to hurt her children, so I don't see a correlation of the human element with respect to all fours or that the "dads" are the only ones who will take on what they perceive to be an agressor either in the human or animal world where offspring are involved.

The rushing forward on all fours charge.....isn't that a gorilla trait? While I've seen a few reports of Sasquatch running on all fours, it doesn't seem to be the trait most often seen either agressively or passively, for the species. That's just my observation of the available data.

What if you don't see a "wee one or little BF" do you assume there isn't one and shoot assuming it's just an overly aggressive BF? That's what I'm trying to determine. How do you know in the split second you have before you are charged, the difference between an overly agressive animal without young, and an agressive animal with young (where the young might not be in plain view, but hidden) How do you determine the reasons for the aggression in that instance?

It hasn't been proven that the dominant trait that sasquatch are usually dangerous to humans. How many times have you been charged by a sasquatch either on all fours or bipedally? I'm curious.

I know the answer to this one...

You become bait.
(you should always be carrying a swab and at least a syringe with a needle or small sharp object with you of some sort.

As he charges you on all fours, let him bat you around a little... while he's doing this, grab his hair and yank those hairs out! Stick him with your needle or other sharp object and try to make sure the blood gets at least on your clothing or in the immediate vicinity if not in the syringe (that's tricky to do).. so it will hopefully be found for testing at a later date. If you're really good, you'll swab one of his orifices as your being swung wildly about, and drop the swab in a baggie...immediately drop the baggie on the ground.
Later, with the scuff marks on the ground, tufts of hair laying all around, hopefully the syringe in the baggy is near... well... evidence may prevail yet.

Someone will eventually have to make the sacrifice with these aggressive sasquatch.





yes.. I'm being fascetious.. please forgive me in a weak moment of jackassiness

Okay, I'll ask... "FOX show"?

ML you do this state credit!

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing..what kinda show on Fox? Anyone have any details on this?

That is on a 'need to know' basis


I have never been in favour of paid expeditions - especially when there are rumours floating about around the non-payment of permits for these outings.

But, if this works for Moneymaker, then who am I to disagree.

I do however think it cheapens the whole field of research - especially when we are at such a critical stage.

We are ???

Yes - we are at a stage where we need science and the general public to take us seriously.

I don't think that the field is ready for paid 'weekend experiences' - have a think at how this looks to the outside world.

Something like Mysterious Encounters but better because Matt would run it.

Only people I see complaints about expeditions have been from this forum.

I have had access to all expedition forums and talked with individuals that participated in these outings and none of them complained about their experiences while attending.

When I go hiking I have to pay a fee, when I have to park my car in the city I have to pay a fee. Do I have to pay this, no, always looking for a way around it. Same with the expeditions, don't want to pay to go out with someone, don't complain about it, go out on your own, I was gathering my woods knowledge well before the BFRO Expeditions.

I have made a great deal of new contacts out there since attending the expeditions and shared my biped experiences and stories with them. Did get to experience somethings that were unexplainable, but not on all of the outings, can't expect to be in the middle of them all the time and that was explained to the participants.

My opinion only of course, got to remember to say that around here.

Absolutely - My opinion is just that - My opinion (sometimes I even agree with it )

Yes, we have to pay for everything in life. I just can't see Dian Fossey charging a participation fee and taking people into the forest to stare at the apes.

She did though. Part of the aggreement for her own pay.

I stand corrected.

So much is being said about all this. If the BFRO wants to go in what ever
direction it wants, that's fine. If they want to Fox it, have twelve expeditions,
let them knock themselves out! I might even take one up.

But remember this. -I don't plan on working around them as such. Just say
I happened to be in a given area when they come in. Don't expect us to move
out or over, it's not going to happen! And I don't expect any other individuals
or small groups to give up their positions either. And yes, I wouldn't infringe
on them if they were researching an area before me.

I think Bip handled it well...he just about said it all - letting everyone know.

But I would like to add, that the Sasquatch topic is being ridiculed to DEATH!
I don't care who it is, or who they represent, but they are going to get a nice
pat on the back when the video comes, or one of these creatures are dragged
out of the bush. This will shut up, and shut down most of the things that rubbish
the phenomena. (And that's the bottom line!)

So, whoever it is, quit playin around, and pull-it-out-of-the-hat. If you're that
close...bring back the evidence. Some are up there in years. Maybe just maybe,
they'd like to see true evidence before they pass on?

Don't know that I'd call that "critical". Without the formentioned body or some other form of undoubtable proof, there aren't a lot of people going to take you seriously without talking to or knowing you.

Hey! What's that crap all over my feet? Did I step in something?

Without knowing any details of course, I wonder if these 2005 expeditions are tied to the FOX show ? I wouldn't mind going on the northern NM expedition, I flyfish this area twice a year I could save on airfare and car rental, 4days of fishing 3 days of bfing.

Man I go for the wk end and all heck breaks lose. lol Where to start???

AR And to those who have not read some of the BFRO stuff in a while. There are reports on there site that states, Seeing BF drop to all FOURS, At the momment I have two in mind. Please for give I would bring it hear, but Iam a comp dummy. The one where BF ambushes a hog, he comes out of the bush charging down hill, on all fours. there is another where BF againg comes out of the bush to attack a dear on all fours, the with ness is in a tress stand, those he was not sure if Bf new he was there or just did not precive him as a threat.

Also, I said the male takes the role. How many reports have we where there is a fam of BF , and the male is incharge, I not to take anything ayay from the ladys, but the male BF are Bigger and probley more stonger. just thinking from the primates, to the pithocenes (sp) back 1.5 mil yrs ago. But I will also be the frist one to tell you dont get in between a mom bear and her cub. All femals are like this its prewired in there makes up to protect the young. as it is in the male make up to protect, and procreate....

If a squatch comes at me with what I consider malicious or aggressive intent, I will shoot it, family or no family near by. Of course, I will try to wait long enough to see if it is a bluff, but maybe 30 yards or so is as close as I will tolerate. They are pretty fast. I am still on the fence as to whether I would kill one to collect a specimen, so in the mean time I will err to the side of no-kill, unless forced to kill. While I think it may be true that the scientific community may need a body to accept BF's existance, I can envision several possible consequences of someone producing a body. Not all of them are good for the remaining population of squatch, or for humans who love the wilderness and hunting. I do consider this serious enough to merit a great deal of thought. Not going to flip a coin here so I don't appear indecisive. Right now, if attacked (my call there) I will drop one in a heartbeat. Otherwise, I will refrain.
BSF

Just think!...

On the 'shoot one' idea - if say...ten thousand (or how-many-ever) pulled
the trigger at the same time, we'd have ten thousand dead or injured
Bigfoot.

Split-second timing, but it is remotely possible!

If a report states that a Bigfoot dropped to all fours and ran off I would highly suspect that it may have been a bear versus a Bigfoot. The bone structure for bipedalism is quite different. Unless you suscribe to the morphing theory I would stick with the predominate observations.

I would hope that all the members of these expeditions are very familiar with what the local wildlife looks like and their behavior. One can easily prepare for an expedition by taking a few trips to your local zoo.

I would agree, DDA. What I saw in the Sierra's would be very hard to mistake for a bear, or vice-versa. But, in the woods, especially at twilight or night, and under duress, fatigue or fear, your eyes can and do play tricks on you. Several times I have been sure I was looking at a bear or buck, only to find it a tree stump or other inanimate forest object. Glad I was taught to make 100% ID before squeezing the trigger. Know your local fauna.
BSF

No offence , we all know how the wood can play trick with the eye's. these reports were by seasoned people who said thay hunt all the time. so I am sure, it was not a case of identy, the one inreguards to the Hog , after he kill the hog He picked it up and walked on TWO legs, back up the hill he charged down on with Four legs...

We must remember, that even thoe it might have human features, its still an off shoot of the primate line some where, and all primate use a quadraped motion of some kind. Even us humans use a quadaped motion in are development.

Sorry, Dragoon. I was speaking in general, not specific. What I saw resembled a bear about as much as a camel does a horse. Not very likely for someone familiar with either to mistake them. There are some very major differences.
BSF

Those of you who are saying "bigfoot doesn't go on all fours" are playing into the same kind of narrowed thinking that makes scientists say "bigfoot doesn't exist."

Actually, we don't know *what* they do. We have reports that they have occasionally dropped to all fours.

It's just as wrong to say that these reports are in error as it is to say any particular "classic" report is in error. Perhaps they are, but we do not know. We should not discount anything out of hand.

It's almost impossible for me to run on all fours because my legs are too long compared to my arms. I don't think BF has the same constraints on his mobiliity. Has anyone done an analysis to see if it's possible for BF to go on all fours? This is where our energy might best be spent, rather than waving off reports based on our own ideas of what BF does and doesn't do.

I went bigfooting this weekend and now I've got a bunch of catching up to do!

There are at least three reports that I've investigated personally where the bigfoot went down onto all fours (to cross a road)....then stood back up after it got out of road and into the safety of the trees. I know of no report where anyone has witnessed a bigfoot attacking or charging anyone...but maybe those folks just haven't made it back to tell us about it!

Jane Goodall did and continues to charge to allow the public access to her chimps. And it's a bunch...around $10,000 as I remember.

As for the expeditions, I am personally hosting the California Sierra Nevada one with another very talented BFRO member. This doesn't have anything to do with a Fox special. The expedition is only about getting a bunch of good folks together to look for bigfoot. We'll be showing them our area of research, how we conduct research, giving participants hands-on lessons on data collection and protocols, and maybe someone will see/hear/photograph/record one. We're not promising anything, other than a good time. All I know is that you will leave wiser and more educated about bigfoot habitat and suspected behavior, data collection and methods, Native American bigfoot folklore, and Sierra Nevada flora and fauna. If that sounds worthwhile, feel free to join us!

Man wouldn't I love to go! I've been itching to see Northern California ever since I lived in Southern California and blew my chances.. like work was more important or something.

I may try to get to the WV expedition, but I'll have a very young daughter then along with my 4yo twin boys.. that's a lot to leave my recuperating wife with. So we'll see.

Human babies do go down on all fours but it is with hands and knees, not the bottoms of their feet. The human hip is not designed to work that way and anything else walking predominately upright would have to develop a similair bone structure strategy and still look like a human walking upright, as so many reports indicate. I am not saying it is impossible, just that it doesn't fit the pattern emerging of the Bigfoot.

It begs a question as to why a capable biped would go to all fours. Mimicry, to hide the fact it isn't just a bear? Speed? Hiding? Reduction in apparent body size? Mistaken ID? All are as valid as the others in my opinion and since we know that bears have this behavior it should be one of those things we all look out for, just like claws in a track.

I would love to be included in any of the expeditions. As many as I can make. I have met some great folks and learn exponentially more about the subject from people and locals and personal experience every time. I also regularly stay in contact with some of the people I have met in order to hopefully pool resources and information locally. And did I mention always had a good time regardless of weather or constant success personally. Count me in.

I could understand it if they were going uphill - on unsteady ground, with a steep incline, I have often resorted to using my hands to steady myself and lower my centre of gravity.

Otherwise, I can't think of a single reason why a biped capable animal would choose to go on all fours.

Other 'Bi-pedal' animals that go on all fours !

cover? Like the PEI video, running through the grassy field on all fours provided better cover than if he/she were upright.