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Paul1968UK
The story was originally published in Nature magazine.

It makes very interesting reading - I just heard the scientist being interviewed, who talked about sightings reported by living people - doesn't sound a million miles from Orang-Pendek, and geographically of course, is not that far either.


QUOTE
'Hobbit' joins human family tree

Scientists have discovered a new and tiny species of human that lived in Indonesia at the same time our own ancestors were colonising the world.
The new species - dubbed "the Hobbit" due to its small size - lived on Flores island until at least 12,000 years ago.

The fact that little people feature in the legends of modern Flores islanders suggests we might have to take tales of Bigfoot and the Yeti more seriously.

Details of the sensational find are described in the journal Nature.


The whole idea that you need a particular brain size to do anything intelligent is completely blown away by this find
Dr Henry Gee, Nature 

Australian archaeologists made the discovery while digging at a site called Liang Bua, one of numerous limestone caves on Flores.
The remains of the partial skeleton were found at a depth of 5.9m. At first, the researchers thought it was the body of a child. But further investigation revealed otherwise.

Wear on the teeth and growth lines on the skull confirm it was an adult, features of the pelvis identify it as female and a leg bone confirms that it walked upright like we do.

"When we got the dates back from the skeleton and we found out how young it was, one anthropologist working with us said it must be wrong because it had so many archaic [primitive] traits," said co-discoverer Mike Morwood, associate professor of archaeology at the University of New England, Australia.

King of the swingers?

The 18,000-year-old specimen, known as Liang Bua 1 or LB1, has been assigned to a new species called Homo floresiensis . It was about one metre tall with long arms and a skull the size of a large grapefruit.

The researchers have since found remains belonging to six other individuals from the same species.

LB1 shared its island with a pony-sized dwarf elephant called Stegodon, a golden retriever-sized rat, giant tortoises and huge lizards - including Komodo dragons.


Chris Stringer, head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum said the long arms were an intriguing feature and might even suggest H. floresiensis spent much of its time in the trees.
"We don't know this. But if there were Komodo dragons about you might want to be up in the trees with your babies where it's safe. It's something for future research, but the fact they had long arms is at least suggestive," Professor Stringer told BBC News Online.

H. floresiensis probably evolved from another species called Homo erectus , whose remains have been discovered on the Indonesian island of Java.

The ancestor of the small hominid, Homo erectus , may have arrived on Flores about one million years ago, evolving its tiny physique in the isolation provided by the island.

What is surprising about this is that Homo erectus must have made it to Flores by boat. Yet building craft for travel on open water is traditionally thought to have been beyond the intellectual abilities of this member of the human family.

Legendary creatures

Even more intriguing is the fact that Flores' inhabitants have incredibly detailed legends about the existence of little people on the island they call Ebu Gogo.

The islanders describe Ebu Gogo as being about one metre tall, hairy and prone to "murmuring" to each other in some form of language. They were also able to repeat what islanders said to them in a parrot-like fashion.

"There have always been myths about small people - Ireland has its leprechauns and Australia has the Yowies. I suppose there's some feeling that this is an oral history going back to the survival of these small people into recent times," said co-discoverer Peter Brown, an associate professor of archaeology at New England.


There have always been myths about small people - Ireland has its leprechauns and Australia has the Yowies. I suppose there's some feeling that this is an oral history going back to the survival of these small people into recent times
Peter Brown, University of New England 

If so, the legends might relate real stories of interaction between modern humans and H. floresiensis on Flores. The last evidence of this human at Liang Bua dates to 12,000 years ago, when a volcanic eruption snuffed out much of Flores' unique wildlife.
Yet there are hints H. floresiensis could have lived on until much later on other parts of the island. The myths say Ebu Gogo were alive when Dutch explorers arrived a few hundred years ago and the very last legend featuring the mythical creatures dates to 100 years ago.

But Henry Gee, senior editor at Nature magazine, goes further. He speculates that species like H.floresiensis might still exist, somewhere in the unexplored tropical forest of Indonesia.

"The uniqueness of the human lineage is a substantial foundation of our religion, our ethics, even our science. This find challenges that substantially," said Dr Gee.

Textbook rewrite

Professor Stringer said the find "rewrites our knowledge of human evolution." He added: "To have [this species] present 12,000 years ago is frankly astonishing."

Homo floresiensis might have evolved its small size in response to the scarcity of resources on the island.

"When creatures get marooned on islands they evolve in new and unpredictable courses. Some species grow very big and some species grow very small," Dr Gee explained.


The presence of Stegodon remains - particularly the teeth of juveniles - in the same deposits as H. floresiensis suggests they may have hunted these dwarf elephants. Some smaller animal remains in Liang Bua cave are charred, perhaps by cooking.
Miniature stone tools have been found in association with the hominid remains. They are just the right size for the diminutive H. floresiensis to have made and used. And the tools' sophistication has amazed some scientists given the human's small brain size of 380cc (around the same size as a chimpanzee).

"The whole idea that you need a particular brain size to do anything intelligent is completely blown away by this find," Dr Gee commented.

Because the remains are relatively recent and not fossilised, scientists are even hopeful they might yield DNA. Genetic information from this descendent of Homo erectus could provide an entirely new perspective on the evolution of the human lineage.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/3948165.stm

Published: 2004/10/27 17:00:27 GMT

© BBC MMIV
jon a. larsen
Verrrry Kewl...........seems about 600-700cc brain has been generally accepted as the size needed by a 5 ft tall hominid.....380 cc for a 3 footer is a bunch less than would be expected......
chronic
WOW!
only 12,000 years ago, that's practically yesterday in the big picture!
Wow....that's all I can say, thanks for the article. biggrin.gif




-score that DNA and the gcbro might have a type to match it against.
peregrine
QUOTE(jon a. larsen @ Oct 27 2004, 11:56 AM)
Verrrry Kewl...........seems about 600-700cc brain has been generally accepted as the size needed by a 5 ft tall hominid.....380 cc for a 3 footer is a bunch less than would be expected......

No, I don't think so. A proportion of 650 cc/60 inches compared to 36 inches produces an estimate of 390 cc for the brain size.

Fascinating discovery.
bipto
QUOTE
LB1 shared its island with a pony-sized dwarf elephant called Stegodon, a golden retriever-sized rat, giant tortoises and huge lizards - including Komodo dragons.

See, that's just not fair. Those poor little guys were only three feet tall while the rats were the size of dogs! There outta be a law.
jon a. larsen
Guess i'd better get some more coffee......might improve my math skills......
Mangani
It sure goes to show that "We don't know what we don't know.". thumbup.gif
In fact we probably don't even have a clue how much more there is to learn. laugh.gif

See more details in the articles at Nature.
From Henry Gee's Column
QUOTE
The discovery of Homo floresiensis makes it much more likely that stories of other mythical, human-like creatures are founded on grains of truth.


And news of A National Geographic Television Special on the subject.

Network Announces That This Scientific Milestone Will Be Included in
Television Event Scheduled to Premiere Early Next Year

WASHINGTON, Oct. 27 /PRNewswire/ -- National Geographic Channel (NGC)
announced today that the network will air a special early next year that
features the landmark discovery of a new species of ancient dwarf humans on
Flores, East Indonesia, (as published in Nature, 28 October, 2004.) These
18,000-year-old skeletal remains represent a profound expansion of our
understanding related to the origins of modern man.
This new species, Homo floresiensis, whose full grown height was
approximately that of a modern three-year-old child, is thought to have lived
18,000 years ago and may have survived to more recent times. The find
demonstrates that the range of human diversity in the recent past was much
greater than previously believed. The partial skeleton, discovered at a cave
site called Liang Bua, belonged to an individual who, while fully adult, was
barely a meter tall and had a skull the size of a grapefruit. Additional
information is available at http://www.nature.com/nature.
NGC is providing the Washington, D.C. bureaus of all major U.S. networks
and news services with a 10-minute long Electronic Press Kit (EPK) featuring
footage from the as yet untitled special, branded with the network's logo.
The EPK includes footage of the site and fossils, as well as sound bites from
the leading scientists.
Hairy Man
This is just incredible! You are right, chronic...12,000 years ago is just like yesterday. The more we know, the less we really know.

Soon we'll discover that we short people are the true rulers of the earth and you stinkin' tall people are some form of mutation. biggrin.gif
robo
QUOTE
ven more intriguing is the fact that Flores' inhabitants have incredibly detailed legends about the existence of little people on the island they call Ebu Gogo.

The islanders describe Ebu Gogo as being about one metre tall, hairy and prone to "murmuring" to each other in some form of language. They were also able to repeat what islanders said to them in a parrot-like fashion.

"There have always been myths about small people - Ireland has its leprechauns and Australia has the Yowies. I suppose there's some feeling that this is an oral history going back to the survival of these small people into recent times," said co-discoverer Peter Brown, an associate professor of archaeology at New England.


That couple paragraphs gave me a chill. Wow.

It's just what we've all been saying about the Sasquatch for all this time.
Paul1968UK
QUOTE(Hairy Man @ Oct 27 2004, 08:31 PM)
Soon we'll discover that we short people are the true rulers of the earth and you stinkin' tall people are some form of mutation. biggrin.gif

Wishful thinking Kathy ! icon_really_happy_guy.gif icon_really_happy_guy.gif icon_really_happy_guy.gif
Hairy Man
QUOTE(Paul1968UK @ Oct 27 2004, 11:48 AM)
QUOTE(Hairy Man @ Oct 27 2004, 08:31 PM)
Soon we'll discover that we short people are the true rulers of the earth and you stinkin' tall people are some form of mutation.  biggrin.gif

Wishful thinking Kathy ! icon_really_happy_guy.gif icon_really_happy_guy.gif icon_really_happy_guy.gif

Hey, I can hope!

Of course, we don't know that this isn't just a single family with a genetic defect, as opposed to an entire population (7 is just family size), but they should be able to retrieve DNA from 12,000-year-old remains and determine their genetic make-up. It sure it cool though! It feels like we're only a stone's throw away from another important discovery!
ouachita
QUOTE(Hairy Man @ Oct 27 2004, 01:31 PM)
Soon we'll discover that we short people are the true rulers of the earth and you stinkin' tall people are some form of mutation. biggrin.gif

Testify, Sister!!! laugh.gif
BamBam
I'm reading and I don't find anything about drinking magic water and growing to man-size.
Hey I wonder what they would make of fossilised midgets? biggrin.gif
WE FOUND THE DWARVES!!! new_lmaosmiley.gif
But I heard that intelegence is rated on the perportions between the brain and the body size. (that would make stegasaures REALLY stupid new_thumbsupsmileyanim.gif
Jim Zenor
Here is another photo
Jim Zenor
I read this this morning and was buzzing to myself mostly. I had to tell two Indonesians who I worked with. Apparently it is a small Homo erectus. I remember reading in Ivan Sanderson various stories of little people, such as the Duende (if memory serves) in South America. I was flabergasted that we found something like this that was so modern. There is no indication that it got off this island but then again I wonder if it or something related to it might have survived to present. Homo erectus was a such a diverse species. He turned into a giant and shrimp. I would love to put them side by side
Jim Zenor
Just messing around, notice the little guy at approximate life size next to Patty
Apeman
Here's an update on the Flores man debate (new species or deformed modern human). Tried to find a good thread to bump with this, and all the others deteriorated pretty quickly. Plus this article helps explain the scaling issue some were debating about brain size, it's not simply a direct ratio as some implied and which muddled this thread.

BBC Article on Flores (wo)man update

Apeman
Chewy
Hey, how come Patty isn't giving that little guy a ride on her back?
peregrine
A report regarding more evidence.
crewchf
Jim,, Where'd you get a picture of Patty with my beagles???

Crew Chief
Huntster
QUOTE
...Even more intriguing is the fact that Flores' inhabitants have incredibly detailed legends about the existence of little people on the island they call Ebu Gogo....


Imagine that.

Legends have roots, despite what the pointy heads say.
stanpaw
QUOTE(peregrine @ Oct 11 2005, 11:41 AM)
A report regarding more evidence.

I was just about to post a link to this article when I thought, better use the search function. thumbup.gif This place would rock if everyone tried that once in a while. About the article though, I am really into it. I want to see a lot of research by mainline scientists on this one. Once is a fluke but two times gets more interesting. Just my $.02 though. And after all, who the heck am I............?????
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