KXII News Oklahoma
Poacher Crackdown in Deer Country


Crackdown on Poachers

10-18-04 - Oklahoma game wardens conducted a massive crackdown on illegal hunting this past weekend. The arrested 12 people and wrote 44 citations – in most cases, the poachers were spotlighting deer at night.

The operation covered Choctaw, Pushmataha and McCurtain counties and seized firearms, spotlights and vehicles.

The arrests were made when poachers were caught hunting on wildlife refuges.


The news report stated the ages were 8 to 80 , men, woman, and children all with weapons.
More and More people are seeing and telling officials about Illegal hunting.
Most of these were "spotlighting" animals.
I can't say I've never "BenThere" But I can say now how wrong this is to blantantly kill these animals .......Spotlighting is too easy....... there is no SPORT to it.

In fact it hurts legal hunting as well as those who enjoy following deer and wildlife
throughout the year as a hobby without the kill.

Turn Em in !!!
It hurts us all.

JMO

Robert

Turn them all in, except for the ones that shoot a hoaxer!

Blind them with a spotlight and shoot at them....see how they like it. I have no tolerance for this kind of BS.

In a second.
Poachers are lowlife scum.....nothing else.

I would turn poachers in without hesitation, then follow-up to make sure law enforcement follows through with my report.

As I said in a previous post, I HATE poachers!!! Once, I had to dive behind a log while bowhunting, because some drunk poachers were ripping through the woods in ATV's, shooting at everything that moved...WITH RIFLES!

I follow the rules, and because of it I often come home empty-handed. This is something that I can accept, and it makes success more sweet. But I wonder...how many time has my hunting trip or fishing trip been ruined by illegal taking of game?

Poachers...this is what you'll see if I catch you...

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute.

Every other thread on hunting we have had has had almost everyone saying they hunt for food - surely then the easiest method is 'spotlighting'.

But now you are saying this is too easy, and that it isn't 'sport'


So which is it ? hunting for food, or pure sport ?


And for the record, I don't agree with poaching.

I say kneecap 'em!

I would only turn them in as an anonymous tip. The kind of person that would do that might be a very good sniper and not take kindly to you. There are enough things in life to worry about without some nutjob after you. The previous statement makes me appreciate cops.

Spotlighting is illegal in our state for big game animals (and in most others). Even if it were legal, I still wouldn't do it because of safety concerns. What a fool to be shooting at something when it's too dark to see what's behind it!!! A house? A campsite? A town?

Also, what's wrong with the "sport" of hunting? Are you suggesting a person can only have one reason for hunting, and one alone?! I think that's unsound reasoning.

Do people go golfing just for the personal challenge of the game? No, of course not. They also go for their health, to hang out with friends, to enjoy the outdoors, and for a myriad of other reasons.

Similarly, hunting for the challenge and for the meat that it provides are perfectly compatible, and they are not just the only reasons either. Go back and re-read those threads you mentioned.

Spotlighting is legal in some instatnces and for some varmints. In arizona we have several animatronic deer. They move their heads tails some take a step or two etc. Anyhow the game and fish guys put them along side the road. I still cant understand why people just dont follow the rules. It is as simple as leaving the truck and stepping off the road to shoot. These guys have to shoot from the truck then some of them shoot over and over cause the deeer dosent fall. It just stands there. They loose their hunting privledges their rifles gear and the truck they are driving and all the atv.s and any trailers they may be useing.It really isnt worth it.It does make for some good americas stupidest redneck video. Poaching is just plain stupid. In this time and day we have to be good stewerds of the resources. Some years this means taking lots of extra deer or elk and others it means fewer tags. I would turn them in but then again i have been called duddly do right as i would turn in my own wife or mother for breaking a law. I gues it is honesty to a fault. I have broken laws before. I lost a shotgun and a whole days bag of dove because when i cleaned them i didnt leave a wing on. I paid a fine and got the shot gun back.

Nothing whatsoever, but people who enjoy the sport shouldn't justify it by saying that they only hunt for food. - that's all I'm saying.

I don't have a problem with people hunting for sport - I just have a problem with double standards.

Although i disagree with poaching, i can understand WHY they were doing it.
I visited Oklahoma a couple years back, and the area outside the bigger towns and cities has some pretty big poverty issues. You either work for Big Lumber (low pay) or you starve.
Poaching deer for food is the easiest alternative many of them have.
Now, that said, if they were say, poaching black bear for the asian market, i would be livid but, deer for food, i understand and can feel sympathy for them.

I totally understand why some people poach...like Rob said. Some of these people have to put food on the table, and that's the easiest way to do it. But, it's still illegal and I have reported people for poaching.

Good point you made Paul. I guess the truth of the matter is, I like hunting. It is an outlet for me. Not just to be able to blast something, but a chance to observe what's going on in nature. The difference between a poacher and someone who hunts for the sport or as a way to legally put food on the table is, the poacher will blast anything and everything that happens to get caught in their spotlight. It goes against everything I've been preaching here in the past few weeks. Maybe that's hard to understand but that's the way it is.

The game wardens here practically beg you to turn in poachers. They are in charge of keeping track of the deer herds and to do that, all deer kills must be reported through the tagging system.

Sorry Rob, but that's a myth(that most poaching is done for food, that is)
The VAST majority of poachers are NOT doing it to "feed their family"...I suppose in a few places, on rare occasion, poaching is done for food...but I also KNOW that it's very rare for that to be the case...again, most poaching(more than most...almost all), is NOT done for food..it's done for profit, and "thrill".....
You may note, that the poachers involved in this were poaching on a wildlife refuge...If they were poaching for food, there would be no need to purposfully seek out the area where the largest bucks would likely be(on a protected refuge), indeed....they certainly knew that their chances of being caught in such a place were greater..yet they STILL poached there...nope, they were not after food I suspect..they were after a big buck, and were just too lazy and stupid to do it legaly or ethicaly.
Also..at least one of the confiscated rifles is a laminated stock, stainless rifle, with what appears to be a Leupold scope...that is NOT a weapon owned by someone so poor as to be starving...that is a $1000 plus outfit...
Again...I say confiscate their guns, their homes, their property..everything. Make a few examples, and maybe it would curtail the activity.
If they were so hard up as to be hungry...there are pleny of tax funded programs willing to give them free food.

I know a man who had 9 boys, and worked for the state on the road crew. He also worked nights and weekends cutting pulpwood and supplying it to the paper mill. He had a dairy farm as well. He hurt his back at work, and had to take some time off. He used his boys (the ones old enough), and me, to continue the pulp operation. While trying to supervise us boys, he tried to help his son struggling to load a log, and got a hernia. Wasn't much gov't help in those days, and if there was, he knew nothing about it. They ate a lot of game for a year or so, some of it taken illegally. That is an extreme case, and in most cases, I would not hesitate to turn in a poacher. Game laws are there for a reason. This guy I did not turn in, and would not today.
BSF

This is one place we will have to agree to disagree. Again...there is NO excuse for this. As much as I dislike most social programs..they ARE there...so use em.
I guess I would advise anyone out there who is thinking of poaching..do NOT do it around me.
I would have pointed the guy toward the myrid of social programs out there designed to help through hard times...
If he still poached after that, I would turn him in.

I hear what you're saying Nightwing and agree with you....in this day and time. But, I'm one person who would have gone to bed very hungry when I was a child had my Dad not killed game year round, legally or not. That was just a fact of life then when there were not the social programs there are today. Remember, I'm an old lady!

Good point you made with the type of weapons these yahoos were using and the place they chose to poach. I hadn't even considered that.

Edit to say....in the South, it's still very possible that people are killing illegally for food. Some place here haven't caught up with the rest of the country when it comes to benefits for those less fortunate.

Nightwing:
It was 1965. I was 12 years old or so, and a farm boy. I never heard of the government giving someone money. Not even sure they did much of that back then. Today, it's easy to say that. Everyone did help out some, but have you ever fed 9 hungry, active farm boys? I guess in this instance we will have to agree to disagree. Anyway, the man to my knowledge never poached before or since that period. I do respect his decision. In most cases, I would turn in a poacher without a thought.
BSF

Edit: Sorry, I was posting when JayleeD posted. Guess we said about the same thing.

Jay, yep, I am talking this day and age....
Times change...at one time, there were no game laws at all, nor assistance for needy...over time, we have altered our outlook on both...so yes, I am refering to the hear and now.

BSF, see above post.
Still....I find it hard to belive that the south is so far behind the rest of the nation that people are starving, yet, able to own $1000 rifles....something is wrong with that picture, either in their "reason"...or their priorities...
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this....today, I maintain, there is no excuse...none...to poach.

Growing up I've known both "subsistence" poachers and the other kind. My observation has been that people who are actually poor enough they need to hunt, legally or otherwise, go for the cheapest and easiest way to obtain the animals they eat. In other words they are more likely to trap, snare,or net game. If they spotlight they will do it within walking distance of their domicile. These folks are fortunately a dying breed because of #1 - government support programs & #2 - only the old timers who grew up with the requisite skills still know how.

The overwhelming majority of poachers these days are NOT hunting because they are hungry. If lack of money is the problem they could easily sell or trade in their big 4 wheel drive vehicles and fancy rifles. It also doesn't take very many miles of driving around @ less than 18 MPG on $2.00+/gallon gas to negate any savings you might have on poached game.

Most poachers today are spotlighting because they are too damn lazy or stupid to actually hunt. They are looking for a quick and easy way to get a "trophy" they can lie about back at the office or plant. If they are trying to get meat because they like the taste of game then see the first sentence of this paragraph. If they are market hunting for meat or to supply trophies for people who are to lazy to even poach, or for the Asian medicine trade...well they are an abomination and should be treated as such. Poachers should be punished period. If the person has a legitimate need to put food on the table we can view that as a mitigating circumstance, but in these days and times it is a damned weak excuse.

rgr.

Poaching (along with some other factors) ruined deer hunting here in the 80's. Now if I see a buck during the season while out hunting then I'll be satisfied.

The problem is the general public sees/reads this stuff and equates these guys to be hunters. It's not the publics fault, they just don't know.


It's one thing if your feeding your family. Quite another if your out just whacking deer.

One other point I wanted to make then I'll shut up!

I feel just as stongly about people who call themselves hunters and go out and kill a deer, then just take the best edible parts and leave the rest to rot. Just this past Sunday I found a huge deer carcass laying at the gate that goes into our hunting lease. The only thing missing was the head (must have been a big buck or an illegal buck) and the hindquarters. They didn't even take the back strap! They just whacked off the hindquarters without even bothering to skin the deer.

IMO, these type of people are no better than poachers...maybe even a little worse. There are laws here that say that it is illegal to discard or dispose of any edible part of a deer. God I wish I knew who dumped that deer. I'd turn his sorry ass into the game warden in a heart beat.

I agree with Zog, especially about shooting without a clue as to what's behind the target. Even if spotlighting was legal, the only way I'd do it is if I was in a stand and knew what was all around, not just driving along looking for a target in the dark.

Here in Alaska in the wintertime, it's pretty much dark all the time. Hunting with the aid of artificial light is illegal, even night-vision equipment. But trappers can use artificial light simply because they sometimes have to dispatch an animal in a trap in the dark.

I use a light to hunt hogs at night, and I used to use one for predators and coon. Don't use it for deer because it is against the law. I think it is illegal because it gives an unfair advantage to the hunter, and would be the demise of too many deer (lead to an undesirably large harvest). Most game laws are made for a reason, and I respect them. I do love night hunting though.
BSF

Out in the Olympic Peninsula in NW Washington, they've had some problems with feral hogs running wild who have never been a part of that ecosystem, and they threaten the native wildlife and plants there. The Dept. of Fish and Game is properly concerned about this problem, and has literally declared open season on them piggies. That means, a year-round season, no limits, no license, just that hunters have been requested to report any that they kill so that the F & G folks can track the problem better. I'm betting that spotlighing would be effective and legal, and would be fine with me as long as some safety measures were taken. Like, maybe instead of driving around at random, they could set up a safe bait sight and beam the lights on the hogs when they show up (but hunters might want to the local game wardens know what they're doing, as it is illegal to bait bears, and the spotlighting might be assumed to be for deer instead of hogs!).

As for poachers who shoot game to feed their families...nope....no excuse nowadays (I heartily agree with Nightwing here). This isn't the days of the European kings who declared ALL game for themselves without regard to the welfare of their subjects, and there are just too many government programs, individuals, churches and other organizations who would be glad to help hungry families.

Now, how about some guy lost in the wilderness and at risk of starving? Although it's possible, I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for killing wildlife to survive, nor do I think they should. I wouldn't hold that against anybody. That's a case where you WOULD NOT have a choice, versus the guy who poaches game when there are other alternatives.

I would not suggest spotlighting from a vehicle, zog. Take a stand, or hunt behind hounds. It is illegal to hunt from a vehicle in many states, at least on a maintained road. Baiting at night from a stand is the best way to hunt hogs. When you hear them feeding, turn on the light and shoot. They're dangerous, so be careful. Use enought gun. And keep your nose and ears open for the big fellow (squatch).

Poachers should be turned in and prosecuted. However, one would hope that those who are in charge of investigating the case would be able to logically determine if he was in legitimate need of hunting for food.

Then, appropriate measures could be taken.

And, Rob, I agree with what you said and I think you did the right thing. Additionally, sometimes the preservation of a man's pride is far more valuable than social assistance. Couldn't there be a emergency game license if you needed one? Pay 5 bucks and get a hunting liscence good for 3 days lets say and one animal. That should be able to tide any honest person over. Or something like that in nature.

Just as courtesy, I am in no way an expert on hunting, I know the laws have good reason and that they need to be respected.

Edited to make sense and not create a heated useless argument.

BSF: I agree, of course. I suppose that "spotlighting" is most often thought of as "driving around at night with a big light until you see something and shooting it from or beside your vehicle". What I meant with "spotlighting" is simply using a light as an aid to hunting at night. Sorry I wasn't clear about that, and I appreciate your good point



One other point that your post made me think of. In addition to spotlighting being illegal for big game here in WA, it is also illegal to shoot from, across or along a road. In other words, you can get yourself in deep doo-doo for poaching, with a spotlight, without a license, out of season, from your vehicle. There's all kinds of violations you could be charged with, and well deserved.

i'd turn them in too, but like bobz said, i'd do it anonymously (did i spell that right?) i'd be pretty paranoid afterwards

what i dont understand is ....well....what is 'spotlighting' ? and why is it ok to do to other animals but not deer? what difference does it make whether you do it from your car or a tree stand?

sorry, just trying to understand....and i'm not up on hunting lingo

gael

I will explain. Game laws are regulated to keep the harvest of animals appropriate to the herd numbers and conditions for that area or state. That is why bag limits go up and down, and why season lengths and dates change from year to year. It is also why certain methods of capture or kill are allowed or not allowed. Deer are resourced so the herd stays at or near a constant, optimal level for the health of the herd, and so each hunter has a crack at a deer or two or four , depending on the state. Most states do not allow night hunting deer, because it makes it too easy, the harvest would be too high. Deer are native, desirable. For the same reason, baiting and night hunting of hogs (an exotic, prolific and damaging animal) is allowed. We want to get rid of them.
BSF

I'll take a crack at explaining what spotlighting is exactly.

You know the phrase "like a deer in the headlights" Deer and other animals as well can be stunned when you shine a very bright light in their eyes at night. Imagine if a deer can get caught in the headlights and cause an accident because it can't react to the oncoming car, how easy it would be to kill the deer if you shine some trillion candlepower flashlight in its eyes.

Its not fair, sporting or safe. Sometimes varmaints (sp) need to be dealt with in a different manner so the spotlighting is okay, also there is usually no accepted season on varmaints like there is for deer and such.

Please feel free to correct me, I am an unabashed armchair hunter.

I have turned in poachers before. These people give honest hunters a bad name. They are the ones that make headlines and grab the attention of anti-hunter and anti-gun groups.

I have also encountered so-called "poor" folk who poach. Oddly enough, they had money to buy cartons of cigarettes, cases of beer, and a roll of lottery tickets, and various video games and movies, but they just couldn't find the money to feed the kids? I think not.

In this day and age, there is no excuse. It is pure laziness and greed.

Redwolf



Edited because CocoB and BSF answered Liebs question better than I did!

That is basically right, Coco, although, it does have more to do with sustainable harvest and optimal carrying capacity of the land than classification as varmint or game animal in many instances. If the fish and game dept doesn't utilize the tools available for it to thin the herd when required, nature will do it. She can get ugly. nature's preferred methods are predation, starvation and disease. None fast or humane.
BSF

This of course is the best way to hunt a croc - would it be considered unsporting then ?

If it's legal, I would say it is sporting, Paul. In a swamp at night with a headlamp and a handgun, I would think it quite sporting. I would love to try it. Best I can do here in Texas is hunt alligators at night with a shotgun.
BSF
Edit: Unless you happen to be one of those deranged individuals who think the only sporting hunt is when the animal has as much chance of killing you as you of killing it. Then you might think it unsporting.

Spot-lighters and other that take game other illegal ways are low life scum. However I am 100% be the support of hunting and would hate to see any laws put in place tat would limit real hunters from their enjoyment.

As for the hunting for food or sport part, Well I feel that as long as they eat what they kill (In a legal way) it does not matter what they say they are doing it for. To me anyone who kills any animal only for the trophy is no better then the lowest scum sucking poacher. I have no problem at all with people wanting a nice trophy as long as they also pack out the rest of the meat and use it in the right way. To many times I have found headless deer and other animal in the woods and that just makes me sick to see it.

I grew up in the back woods of Indiana where still today some will go out any time of the year and take a deer to feed their families. Yes out of season killing of deer and other animals is still poaching but that kind of poaching I could live with. Nothing is being wasted and they are doing it to feed their families. But even them people keep the sport in it for the most part by hunting during the day and following all the rules besides the season ones.
That part of Indiana has a over population of deer anyway so I feel that it is not so bad. I am sure others would not agree but that is how I feel.
The last time I was up there it was almost daily that I seen another deer laying on the side of a road that was hit by a car they have so many running around. I stood on my mothers back porch one morning and counted 10 deer feeding in her field behind the house. 20 years ago it was hard to find a deer around that area. Now they are just every place.

Anyway besides them people all other poachers should be hung in public to show the others just how serious it is.

Poaching deer for 'subsistence' is bs, in California the daily limit on crow is 20, that'll feed the family. I wouldn't mind eating a nice venison steak every night and tooling around in an NSX......but I wouldn't poach a deer or steal the car, I'd WORK for it.

Good point Chronic. Nobody poaches trophy deer for sustinance when rabbit have no closed season, and are easier to hunt or trap. I would find it hard to believe that someone has to hunt illegally to survive today. I would tend to warn an occasional meat poacher before I turned him in. Just one warning, then turn him in. That only if he were supplimenting an extremely low income to feed his family.
By the way, I would bet I have spent as much or more time in the woods as most of you, how is it that I have never seen a headless deer or elk left in the woods by one of those shameless trophy hunters? Not saying they don't exist, but if it is so common as some say, I am curious as to why I do not see some. Have seen a few deer that died and were not tracked properly, left to rot. Not often though.
BSF

There's no room on earth for assholes like this. I say we need a more strict punishment system. If you break the law, you are shot immediately.

Maybe harsh, but it would be effective and crime would go down real fast.

Wow this one stired some response.

Alas it was pointed out to me that this amount of poacher busting
was done in one weekend.
It doesn't account for all the one's
that don't get apprehended here in SE Oklahoma.
It's a commendable effort but really small in actual determent.


When a man works and cannot support his family all year ,
the game in his freezer and some humble cooking will sustain his family.
You can not condemn this. Legal or not.

But here we have seen 10-15 carcasses discovered , possibly all killed the same
weekend, cut up and bagged out. That's Poaching Big TIme. Sucks!

Then there are the TURKEY TROTLINERS ...horrible.
Trout hooks and hominy.....12 hooks .....twelve turkeys.
Seen it demolish a troop overnight. Very sad.

Glad the responses were rounded.

Robert

I never seen it also until I started hunting in some of the places in Florida. The first one I found was in 3 lakes in Florida and the next one was in Osceola National forest in Northern Florida. The second one they did not even take the head only a little meat off of the back. About what it would take for two guys to have for lunch, That was a real shame and was a very sad thing to see.

I have hunted in Indiana and Alabama and Georgia also and never seen anything like that in them places.

As far as some saying they can not see in this day of age why someone would need to hunt to feed their families. Well I can see why people think like that as I have lives in towns for most of my life now. But go up in the hills where it is 20 miles to the closest town and live for a while and you will see it is a different way of life.
Dont get me wrong I would say anyone taking a deer or anything else out of season is wrong. But I also can see why some would do it and could be understanding on it as long as they was feeding their families with it.

I certainly wasnt holding any sympathy for the NYC lawyers outfitted with multi-thousand dollar gear, out one weekend in a refuge, shooting down an entire herd.
Yes, i've seen partial carcass, makes me sick to see all that waste. I've seen antlers removed and just the backstraps, they left the rest for the buzzards and foxes.

I was referring to the people who live far out in the sticks, growing thier own food, working for slave wages, trying to feed a family. Think about this - the mind set of a very low income man (no 4x4, no beer, no gameboy or lotto tickets), trying to put meat into the bellies of his children. Spend a pocketfull of hard earned money on small shells and time and effort to hunt down a bag of rabbits (which has little actual food use - google "rabbit starvation") or for a box of 5 shotgun slugs, with the chance of bagging 5 whitetail deer (which is an excellent food source). Just ONE deer can feed a family of 4 for a week or more, with nothing else in the diet. One shot, one kill, a week of living without hunger pains.

Illegal ? Yes, but is it truely immoral ??? Something can be legal and immoral, and some things can be moral and yet, illegal [ for instance, the city of Annapolis has declared it illegal to put coins in parking meters that do not hold your vehicle, thereby increasing the cities income from parking fines]. Yes, if something is illegal, it is socially immoral. But is it truly immoral ? I myself ponder that question. Should we let a mans family starve, in the name of game control ? Or do we turn our heads the other way until he is able to provide food in a legal manner , gently reminding him of the game laws ? OR, can we (would we) slip a bag or two of food on their front step in the middle of the night ?

My plant manager came from a dirt poor family. Friends tell me of his dad taking him and his brothers out in the evening in the pickup truck, just to hunt deer for table food. His dad was injured in an accident, and getting no compensation from anyone. As soon as the boys were able to work, they put food on the table instead. He still loves to hunt, but wont poach anymore. HE certainly wont talk about it, too proud. (pride, can keep a man down or break him. The poor seldom admit that they are, and rarly show it in public).

I live in the deep south of Georgia and its a fairly common practice. Alot of hard working men need extra meat to support their families. I personally have no problem with the few cases that happen. Poor people are out there...believe me...and need the meat in order to eat like a faimly should. Perhaps some people should put themselves in the shoes of this man. Two hungry kids to feed with a wife who has resently losed her job or fallen ill. Hes tight with money because of meds for his wife. Works daylight to dark. Is he wrong to try and get some much needed food for his family? Personally.... I have no problem with it.
What bothers me much more around here are the idiots that bow hunt or even gun hunt would do not practice with there weapon, take crazy shots, and lose alot of the deer. A total waste and very cruel IMHO. If I hear another man tell me about he went bow hunting and stuck one and couldn't find him...but hes goin' back to stick another later Im going to give him a piece of my mind. Or the guys who go out and kill deer only to take the hams and backstraps and leave the rest.
True hunters are sportsman and waste nothing. I hunt a great deal and always eat what I kill, practice with my firearm and never take a shot when I 'm not sure of my placement.

My GrandFather here in Oklahoma had a simple statement.

"Nobody should ever go hungry in Oklahoma"
And he was refering to gardens, raising cows,chickens and hogs.
Fishing and hunting.
They did have laws binding them on seasons but they knew
when the 'RUT" was and where to look. How to trap and hunt small game.

Common practice here is to Kill "Campmeat" so everyone can eat at Deer camp.
Usually the first deer killed. Tagged .... sometimes. Usually illegal.

But some of these BUSTS were on Refuges.
Albeit at their famous Mechanical Deer.
Moron stuff I would imagine. :rolleyes:

Robert

Its illegal and greedy. They can wait their turn and get a permit just like everyone else. Hunting licences go to conservation efforts and in fact do everything possible to keep the animal population healthy. These guys are scavengers.

If they were needy, there are dozens of socialist programs to assist them. Or they could move to where the jobs are. No one in this country needs to go hungry. There are plenty of programs to assist. What the hell am I paying social security for anyways?

all the way. Good catch also a Leuopold scope runs over $200 for a cheap one. Laminate stocks can cost more than some guns. I would estimate the stock to cost at least $150 and the scope at $250 to low ball it. Figure another $35 for the mounts and rings. That guy had over $400 worth of stuff on his rifle. This is providing it is a good quality brand ie reminton and so forth.

[edit] watched vid.
I am trying to figure what caliber it was. It looks like a Marlin .22 983s magnum . I hope he wasnt trying for a big buck with that thing cause if he was, he needs to be slapped. There was also a North American Arms .22mag derringer on the table. I am thinking the laminate stainless steel rifle was same caliber judging from the mag well and mag catch.

I am now confident it was a .22 after watching the video and pausing it alot. In that case I would adjust the cost of equipment to $350 for rifle with stock included. I could not positively identify the scope but If I had to guess the gun being a .22 then the scope could certainly be a lower end model costing an estimated $50, and figure rings and mount at another $35 for something decent. But the other rifle (suspecting its .22 as well) DOES have a Leupold scope on it for sure. Like NW said, that aint cheap. A poor man is not going to spend over $350 on a .22 that can do the same think for about $125 new.

(note I have been out of the firearms business for almost 5 years now so my pricing estimates may be off)

Ok not a Donald Trump safari piece by any stretch. But still a $400 get up. I am inclined to believe the people who owned that gun were spotlighting for racoons. :yuck: Raise chickens if you are that hungry for cryin out loud.

Boy. I LOVE that idea, etheral! Does this mean we get to spotlight for poachers?! Count me in!!!!

Rob:
A deer is definately less work and cheaper to hunt down and shoot than an equivalent weight of rabbits. I was thinking more of snaring rabbits. I used to snare rabbits, grouse, squirrels, pidgeons, muskrat, etc... as a boy of 10. Not hard at all, not much work, and all you need is a short length of stovepipe or picture wire. Were I going to shoot rabbits or squirrels to suppliment my family food, I would use a .22. A little cheaper at 7.00 a brick (500 rounds). Works good at night with a flashlight or on a full moon for rabbits.

Also, I am familiar with rabbit starvation. Happens (or used to) mainly in northern climes in winter, I think. When rabbit populations are at a height in their cycle, thjay are incredibly easy to harvest. There is very little or no fat on a rabbit, and if you try to live exclusively on them, you can starve to death. Suppilment with other foods in reasonable quantities, and you should be ok, I believe. IO guess I will do the google search, to learn more about it. Haven't heard that term ("rabbit starvation") in years.

Guess this is something we all have to come to terms with on our own, whether every poacher needs to be reported in every case, or if there can be an exception. I think at least, it is getting harder to justify not reporting. Thanks for your comments, you show a lot of insight. The illegal/immoral argument is, I guess, a personal decision. No one wrong or right answer to cover everybody.
BSF

I would turn them in and have done so in the past.
In Ontario, if you are caught you can loose everything you have with you, your atv, truck ect, which I think is a great idea..