This post is regarding an interesting archeological find most of you guys may have already heard of that was made in Alabama in the 1800's.

I have scanned it from an original copy of Smithsonian's own Report of the National Museum~1892 which I came across a few years ago. Apparently, others on the internet have followed up on this story and while at first the Smithsonian denied thay had received any such giant coffins, they finally acknowledged possession of them, but said they were contaminated due to being exposed to asbestos while in storage.

To my knowledge, they have never been seen by the public. They should be in the inventory of the new National Museum of the American Indian , on the Mall. The gist of this is, its a paper trail leading directly to the Smithsonian & the context in which they were found opens a sizeable gap in our understanding of the level & types of pre-Columbian cultures present in the New World. There are other Smithsonian Reports from the 1800's that mention giant skeletons with recessive foreheads & other sub-human features, some with double dentition , which is also present in a percentage of our modern human populations. Whew, out of breath!

Possible Smithsonian Motto ~ "What does not fit we must omit?"

,Walksalone

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Thanks for that very interesting post and great scans. I live maybe thirty miles from there and I had never heard of this story til now. If you go to terraserver and look up Powellville Alabama. You should see Lewis Smith Lake very near. The dam was built in 1963. My family owned close to three thousand acres where the dam is and in the valley below. On the map if you look right where the two bridges cross the Sipsey Fork of the Warrior River you will see a road on either end of the two bridges. On the Cullman County side of the two bridges the road dead ends at a pump station for a local water works. Small building maybe 3000 sq ft. On that road about a half mile down you will see Parkers Branch on the right. It comes off a very steep elevation and essentially a very steep hollow with large boulders lining it and a natural spring(Parkers Branch after my grtgrtgrtgrandfather) Go stright up the hollow til you see the large rock over hang on the right. Trun left and follow about twenty yards below the ridge line. You will come to bluff that wil be between you and the ridge top. Follow it about fifty ft and you will see a hole under one of the overhanging rocks. The hole is about three times the size of a standard manhole. Drop straight down into it and it will be roughly waist high on a 5'10 man(me) Crawl in the tunnel back under the raock bluff about thirty feet and it starts to open to where you can stand upright. ABout another sixty feet in it opens into a large room about 70-80ft across. My grtgrandfather told me when he was a boy it was about half again that size or roughly 120 ft across. The ceiling averages about 15-20ft. He also told me that his grandfather had told him that when the family settled the valley an older half indian told him that the Indians considered this a sacred or some such site. Naturally they basically disregarded that notion altogether. He said they started building a house on the ridge above about a hundred fifty yards away. They were living about a mile away while building the big house in an old shack. He said that they went up one day and found three roughly 12''x12''x15' beams had been moved about a hundred or so yards down the steep hillside. They were kinda perplexed as a hardwood timber that size required a huge belgian draft horse to move. So they built the house and started using the cave for a storm shelter and a root cellar. they kept alot of garden stuff like corn potatoes etc in it as the temp would stay about fifty degrees year around. Then one day they noticed a bad smell and it persisted for a couple days right where the entrance to the cave was. They assumed a skunk fell in and was gonna eat their veggies so my grandfathers brother wnet inside by losing a straw drawing to dispose of the varmint. No skunk and about four to five dozen ears of corn and a bushel of potatoes were gone. They found cobs oof the eaten corn and a few potaotes down the hillside. So being country folk they didnt understand what it could be so they placed a flat bar iron gate on the hole. It was bent to hell one day. So they left the hole alone and never went in it again. A man down the valley had said some years later he was bringing his mule and wagon back from cutting a few timbers and it got dark and the mule started acting up. he finally stopped and went up to the mule to look him over in the dim light. He said something came up behind him and grabbed him in a bear hug and held him with feet about two ft off the ground. He said he finally fumbled his knife out and stabbed at the arms and it turned him loose. By the then the mule was gone with the wagon. Pops said the man would never go into the bottoms again without other folks and a gun and was ridiculed for it. This story was told to my mother when she was about five which was circa 1945 and to me in around 1976. With my mother it was loing before the bigfoot craze set off by Patterson. ANyone ever around north central bama and wants to see the cave Id be glad to show you.

Hello bigdave,

You're welcome, thanks for posting your family story of the encounter & history in that area , it's amazing, he's lucky to have gotten away. I'm in Olde Virginny, otherwise I would take you up on the offer to see that cave, I bet it's really something. I have a friend whose ancestors I seem to recall were from that area of Alabama, his family name was Russell. If I turn up anything else on that area I'll post it.

According to their own books, the Smithsonian was sent a virtual boatload of unusual artifacts and skeletons from all over the country during the 1800's , it's just a shame they won't fess up and show them to the public.

Regards, Walksalone

Do you know where I might get a copy of the book you scanned?

Yeah I got into the scene pretty good online a few years ago over on Cybersquatch and GCBRO but that nut from here(alabama) that made a mockery out of all of us here in Alabama caused such a dislike I was catching heat for he and his wifes ignorance so I bowed out for a couple years online. Luckily I hadnt really got into any kind of relationship with them. I heard stories by old folks all my life about critters that sounded alot like Bigfoot. I remember back when most everyone seemed to think Bigfoot was a Western US only entity.

I am an avid trapper and outdoorsman and I have seen things that defy common logic out in the woods. I have felt the "staring" feeling when out in the woods. My cousin shot a deer in the back of my pasture a few years ago. Only one way in and out and that was right by my door. We went back to the house about four hundred yards away to get the tractor to bring it back. The whole deer was gone. It had been layin in an old cutover with a creek in a horshoe type shape around it and my house on the way back. NOONE could have gotten in there. Creek was about thrity ft across and very deep. Clearcut was heavily overgrown and walking in and out really tight. We left a completely no doubt dead deer laying there. Front shoulder nearly knocked clean off by a 7mag. Came back and whole deer gone. No drag marks etc.

A couple weeks later I was outback of the house and heard an odd "scream" a deer came across the pasture and stopped within a few feet of me. It would look at me and then back where it had crossed the huge pasture. Just over the rise the "scream" again. Deer jumped the fence and I could have reached out and touched it. It took off at warp speed. i have heard bobcats, cougars etc. It was a sound like I had never heard before.

A few years befor a childhood friend was found in the creek. They said he drowned after falling in while hunting. He had scratches on him and his nails were bent back like he was clawing at something. I was there when they pulled him out. I never thought much except his neck looked a lil odd. But I am no expert so I never gave it thought til I heard those screams and witnessed the disappearing 150 plus pound deer. Now I often wonder about it.

Same old, same old...

Welcome to sasquatchery!

The "pros" have all the "knowledge", but not enough courage to profess it.

We remain with nothing.

I used to work in the environmental/hazmat industry, and I have a lot of experience in asbestos removal and cleaning areas/objects that have been exposed to asbestos.

I don't buy the asbestos story - it is pretty easy to de-contaminate most things that come into contact with asbestos.

The Smithsonian accumulates such a huge amount of relics, I think they probably misplaced them and later made up the asbestos story to CTA.

Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm more likely to believe that anything sasquatchery is simply dismissed at the Smithsonian and thrown away.

I'm left with the impression that Krantz was right:

Somebody needs to get a carcass and drag it from convention to laboratory to museum and rub their uppity noses in it.

"Pssssttttt.....Hey, buddy. Wanna see a dead monkey?"

I find it more likely that the coffins and story were fabricated, and the Smithsonian simply doesn't want to admit it was hoaxed (like with the Cardiff Giant, the Iceman, and a variety of other phony 'relics').
If there really were gigantic hominid bones, researchers would have been duking it out with fists to get a look at them and publish them
Research scientists are bigger geeks than most of the public (more even than some on these forums ) and would kill to get to be in on some cool gigantic-humanoid shee-ott.

bigdave, Here is a link to ABEBOOKS.COM , you can find a lot of out of print titles here, it is getting pricier, but sometimes you can luck out and find a rare title.

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/Search...t+1892&sortby=2

The search there for this book turned up 4 -hits, one reprint of just the story & three complete books. Another possibility is Ebay, I hear they have a large book auction section. Also you could GOOGLE it , that would turn up other booksellers inventory of the book.

About the cave on you're family property, I wonder if like the Crump Cave, it had any burials or artifacts in it in the past , before Europeans arrived in the country?The missing deer reminds me of some hunters stories on the net where they hung the deer up, head back to their truck, and when they got back, no deer. I have found deer in the woods before that appeared to have been healthy animals, yet there was no predator action on them externally, the rear legs had compound fractures as if they had been grabbed there and swung up against a tree, the abdomen was ripped open and the intestines were sprawled out on the ground , as if whatever did it was looking for something in particular, which reminds me, on the BFRO, there were some reports from the Ohio area about Bigfoot /deer predation, tree knocking was heard in pairs, possibly to drive the deer towards an ambush . Livers have the higest return in investment for a predator in the winter, so for a Bigfoot on the move, it would be a high energy treat. About that feeling of eyes watching you, I feel that too sometimes when I walk ground in the bottoms, a melancholy feeling as if the land were talking to you , there are areas that make you want to quicken your steps.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences with the forum

walksalone

my thoughts exactly

Bitter Monk, Thanks for the link.

walksalone

You're quite possibly right about the Smithsonian having been hoaxed and wanting to keep the matter quiet. The reasons why missing bones allegedly sent to museums turn up missing later are speculative. It's certainly speculative about scientists' motives, but I, like many BFers, am darkly suspicious of many of them. Of course, one can over-emphasize either faith in and skepticism of scientists. Surely sometimes cases of being hoaxed occur, and sometimes cases of cover-ups occur; the dispute is about the probable ratio of one to the other.

Anyway, I trust you (DY) don't believe that this is a black/white issue, with scientists invariably (or nearly) acting like White Knights. Scientists are not always that keen to follow the truth no matter where it may lead. That's the kiddie version of reality.

There are at least a few examples to fuel suspicion of scientists' motives. Just to give one example, scientists fell all over themselves to avoid heeding Patterson's post-sighting pleas to come to the Bluff Creek film site and examine the evidence, and follow Patty's trail, while it was fresh.

Then there's the case of the Minaret skull (which we've already butted heads over), which two anthropologists filed and forgot. By failing to take note of the UCLA museum's reference number, they effectively "buried" it (which is what I suspect they wanted to do, or a part of them wanted to do). It was non-professional behavior, especially since they didn't have ownership of it. And it's not because they were sure it wasn't worth looking into either; they mostly just presumed it wasn't. When a researcher later contacted them (and presumably described the skull's oddities in more detail and mentioned the coroner's belief in the skull's non-humanness), one of the anthropologists realized (I guess) that he might have been too hasty and tried to locate it, but he couldn't because he lacked the tracking number. That indicates that he wasn't as eager as you suggest to notice something outside the mainstream in the first place. He certainly wouldn't run over his grandmother to notice something really out of the ordinary, let alone "kill" to do so.

Another case where scientists were willing to let strange stuff pass them by was the two skeletons of 8-foot tall "Indians" (now repatriated and buried in an unknown location) once in the Virginia City Mark Twain Museum. They were on display for something like a decade, but no one whipped out his magnifying glass to scrutinize them. Ditto the Minnesota Iceman, which was exhibited and publicized for years without a scientist taking a look.

One possibly apocryphal case where a scientist avoided venturing into Forbidden Territory is that of an anthropologist in Central America who supposedly dug up a prehistoric statuette of a little elephant. His advisor told him, "You have two choices. You can publish your finding, or you can have a career in anthropology." If he didn't actually say it (because the story is a fable), he would have, or anyway often would have, had the situation arisen.

For a mild version of a stifling orthodoxy at work, consider the unreasonable close-mindedness of the scientific consensus about the possibility of pre-Clovis populations in the New World. And that was about a possibility that wasn't Essentially Weird and thus Really Forbidden, like Bigfoot.

The sin of the establishment in the Clovis case, as in the case of Bigfoot, wasn't in adopting a skeptical position, but in being too extreme in its disbelief--i.e., not thinking in the grey scale--and in being too willing to raise unreasonable objections to dismiss or explain away contrary suggestive evidence, attempting to marginalize those adopting an unorthodox position, etc.

Yup.

Geeks or no, are you telling us that fine scientists don't keep their mouths shut out of fear of losing their jobs or reputation? While I agree that you'd think there would have been some courageous soul by now with the position/access to investigate these things and make the findings known, I can't deny that there is a status quo, either.

And status quo is a strong deterent to voicing new/radical ideas. Check the history of the sciences for examples. It's easy to be relegated to the lunatic fringe....ask some BFF members. ha ha

Here's a Smithsonian digger caught in the act.....

What do you think, guilty or Innocent?

Fake. You've got the wrong board for that.

You guys are too serious, of course it is ....... LOL

Right?

EVERYONE[SIZE=14], the picture of the "Smithsonian Digger " is a hoax , it was meant to provide some comedic relief for the Smithsonian discussion.

Walksalone

Having been brought up in South Dakota, I am very familiar with a group of Native Americans that have very little non-native blood. While most of them are average in size, there are a small percentage (~1 in 50) that are very large (>6' 5"). I don't mean any disrespect; it is just my anecdotal observation. The coffins could have been made for some real people. I have seen some really big Oglalla Lakota.

These may be family boxes meant to hold the remains of several people. I don't think much can be made of what I read in the pages even though it was interesting. There were no mentions of giant bones? I agree with RogerKni assessment of the attitude of many scientists though.

...or Photoshop?

BobZenor, some fuel for your post.

Walksalone

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I was hoping you were joking....

I have read of whole mounds in Ohio filled with giants at the lower levels, not just the chiefs. Think it was on Norka site. Not sure if .com or .net or .org.

bipto, I would say it's more likely a fabricated plaster skull.

walksalone

Jack Webb from now on, "just the facts ma'am." I 'll post some of the mound reports I have come across from the 1800's

Thanks, Chewy

walksalone

This might be the one Chewy

http://www.geocities.com/saqatchr/page46.html

walksalone

Thanks for that very interesting backup of my statement Walksalone. I was actually understating my opinion of the size of some of them. He sounds like some of the Oglalla I have met. It doesn't explain the sloping forehead or other finds, but people should realize that some Native Americans are very big. Big bones doesn't mean bigfoot.

Yep, that's the site. I sure would love to get a good explanation for all that....

This is from the History of Lexington Kentucky, by George W. Ranck 1872

Page 2 of 4

Page 3 of 4

Page 4 of 4

This is from Peruvian Antiquities, by Mariano Edward Rivero & John James Tschudi, 1853

What's interesting about this report , if true is the fetus mentioned had the cranial characteristics present before a cradle board could have been applied.

Legend of Prince Madoc and the White Indians

I hope that copied correctly. It's a book by Dana Olson concerning The Falls of Ohio, across the Ohio River from Louisville.Kentucky. One of the most enlightening books I have ever read!

This book also speaks of the giant skeletons that were found very early on and the large limestone rocks cut to perfection. What I read about Lexington is similar to the Louisville area . Clarksville, Indiana lies directly across the river from Louisville and is the site of some of them most remarkable fossils one will see! It's a wonderful place to visit because of all the history.

Thank you so much for taking the time to scan those pages for us.I enjoyed reading them so much. Science wasn't really science in the 1800's. Those poor men were so influenced by prejudice it made doing a thorough job impossible. It took a long time to come out of the Dark Ages! I sometimes wonder if much progress has been made.

Mercury

You're welcome Mercury, I'm glad you enjoyed reading them. I have a few more I can post over the next few days. I'll have to get a copy of the Olson book you mentioned, it sounds interesting. The painter George Catlin did some of the most accurate portraits ever of North American Indians before the Civil War, including some of the white indians you described , blue eyed, blonde haired, etc which were thought to be related to the Welsh people.

Regards, walksalone

No...that didn't copy correctly! Type Prince Madoc in your search engine and it will come up.

I'm no doctor but I'd say that unborn child's misshappen head is pretty darned easy to explain... unfortunately...the mother and child both died in childbirth. The head was too large or the pelvis too small. The head molded in the pelvis and made that weird shape. But....like I said before...I am no doctor!

Mercury

BobZenor, here's another one I found in George Catlins book on the American Indians, 1844

This is the text page mentioning Kots~a~to~ah Smoked Shield

Mercury,

I'm with you, I'm no doctor and frankly senator, I'm no Jack Kennedy, oops I was momentarily possessed by Dan Quail !!

walksalone

I was wondering where Dan Quail went!

Had it not been for George Caitlin...we would have nothing of the Mandan. They were wiped out by smallpox not long after the left them. Caitlin was severly critisized for this portrayals of the Mandan....it was cosidered impossible for them to have amongst them white members. He was more or less called a liar by the "modern" powers that were.

Same ole, Same ole.

Mercury

Everyone, if you get the chance some winter if your snowed in somewhere, The Florida of the Inca by Garcilaso de La Vega, a manuscript that was translated into English & is a great book on the early Spanish De Soto expedition which describes things as Mercury noted, that experts say just can't be. A village in what are now the Carolinas with giant sculptures in the round of warriors holding weapons standing in front of the entrances to mound temples filled with mummified human remains & baskets of freshwater pearls , stacked Haida fashion in descending size atop one another, with some of the pearls the size of hens eggs. Historians accept some parts of his accounts and reject others. It's a great read either way.

walksalone

BobZenor & Mercury, Black Elk Speaks is a great book, one of my favorites too. I like the part about his experience on Harney peak.The Book of the Hopi by Frank Waters is another well worth reading.

'In his postscript to Black Elk speaks, John Neihardt wrote that after his interviews with elderly holy man had been completed, black elk pointed to Harney peak and told him, “there when I was young, the spirits took me in my vision to the center of the earth and showed me all the good things in the sacred hoop of the world. I wish I could stand there in the flesh before I die, for there is something I want to say to the six grandfathers.”' 'Neihardt went on to write that, “on the way to the summit, Black Elk remarked to his son, Ben: ‘something should happen today. if I have any power left, the thunder beings of the west should hear me when I send a voice, and there should be a little thunder and a little rain.’” Neihardt added that it was a bright cloudless day and that there had been no rain in the region for quite a while.'Once atop the summit, Black Elk prepared himself as he had been shown in his great vision, offered the sacred pipe to the four corners of the earth and began to sing, dance, and pray. his prayer was filled with sadness, despair, and many tears.' 'at the end Neihardt wrote:' we who listened now noted that thin clouds had gathered about us. a scant chill rain began to fall and there was low, muttering thunder without lightning. with tears running down his cheeks, the old man raised his voice to a thin high wail, and chanted: ‘in sorrow I am sending a feeble voice, o six powers of the world. hear me in my sorrow, for I may never call again. o make my people live!’ for some minutes the old man stood silent, with face uplifted, weeping in the drizzling rain. in a little while the sky was clear again.

A link to an electronic version online


http://www.blackelkspeaks.unl.edu/index2.htm

Sorry it took me a while to get back on this thread...I was polishing my armor.
Nope, I never stated that all researchers (or scientists if you prefer) are always correct.
Nor do I think that all the BFers who complain about scientists and how they work have based their complaints on honest interactions with reseacrhers. It's easy to armwave, paint with a wide brush and say "They are against the truth."
I say fine...who?
All the instances you highlighted in your post again date back to the '60s and '70s or before. Have you spoken with any researchers at institutions lately?
At any rate, I like everyone else, can only base my opinion on my own experience. And my experience strongly suggests to me that any researcher today who had an opportunity to examine an 8 foot tall skeleton (or even a 6'5" skeleton) would jump over anything in his way to get to it...just as soon as his serf finished re-fitting his chain mail...

Sorry...thought that was funny...