I always thought that this story was particularly hair raising.
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=2291

One of the things that is so frustrating about these accounts is that there seems to be no follow up. No further evidence seems to be forth coming. The creature (if it was ever there) just disappears and all goes quiet.

If this was a real event, I wonder what was going on? Did the BF have a dead infant stashed in the rocks?

Any comments?

I stumbled across that last year, and got the same impression. I have a son about that age, and put myself in that position…Me protecting my son, and Patty protecting what could have been the body of her dead baby...tough call. It seems this guy made all the right moves. But the incident would have definitely caused more than a few hairs to stand up on the back of my neck.

As far as a follow up investigation, that area and the way it was described could have been a virtual Holly Grail of forensic evidence with all the poop, and hair samples laying around.

Either the guy is incredibly brave or incredibly stupid. I would've turned around after seeing the large scat piles. Maybe even before that, with the really bad smell in the air. To me, those are really big clues that something is amiss..and maybe we should find another fishin' hole. lol
They said a follow up was done, but it didn't mention if they found any scat on the return trip..weird.

this is in southwest mo. if i am not wrong. my mother in law lives in popular bluff not far from there. i may be going there after christmas. if i do i will take lots of pics and video and share them all. i am going to call her and ask her to get some pictures of the area and see if she finds anything. i am going to call her tomorrow,

Hmm. If I had to make a guess (never claimed to know everything! :rolleyes: )
I would say a dead infant also..or possibly a food cache?

I have to agree with Uffda, what is this guy thinking? Then again, for people who are not familiar with bf, a strong smell probably means nothing and scat could just be a bear or mountain lion. But if I had my kid with me, I wouldnt even risk that. If you see red meat in fresh scat, thats probably a good sign not to hang out in the area unless you know what you're doing and are out looking for bf; not taking your kid fishing. Why take the chance?

The follow up says they think a BF with violent tendancies (sp) lives in that area. It seems to me alot more investigation should be done here especialy since a violent BF won't be as shy and it seems would pretty much show itself to you.

You must be thinking of a different report. The one originally referenced in this thread made no mention of a violent animal in the follow-up section.

Oops wasn't in the follow up but in the report itself.

"OTHER STORIES: I had a man I know tell me of 18" print in the mud in the same area 5 months later. There is also one that wanders the flat creek basin. He is said to be violent. I found a habitable cave with numerous 18 " prints outside the entrance. Been there in pitch black, but no activity."

Oh wow I skimmed past the cave part first read too. This definately sounds like a place worth checking out now.

I found this report to be quite disturbing too - I have a young son and that description he gave of his son's reactions really bothered me.

It seems that in an area with that much alleged activity the bfro would plant a person somewhere near and have weekly check-ups, set camera traps, etc.

I know I would.

In my totally uneducated opinion, I cannot imagine a bigfoot carting around a dead infant by the ankles. I hear of so many humanlike qualities that to me, holding a little one dead or not like that does not fit the profile.

I also thought that as a general rule, only the males emitted a strong odor.

Why not? Gorillas and chimps have been observed doing this same thing many, many times.

As for the report, I suppose it could stand to reason that if a female sasquatch had recently lost an infant, then she could very well be suffering anxiety from that loss and I could see where she could become agitated at the encroachment of her territory by two humans. Grief isn't an emotion that is exclusive to humans by any means and an animal suffering from grief could easily act in a manner which wouldn't fit into the norm for them.

Interesting report, to be sure.

"I found a habitable cave with numerous 18 " prints outside the entrance. Been there in pitch black, but no activity."

With this, the BFRO is stupid not to monitor this place. Maybe we should all send them e-mails with a link to this thread?

EDIT Please no one take that stupid comment to be an insult. Was not meant that way.

The encounter was 4 years ago.

Not to mention the fact that no matter how badly an investigator would love to do nothing more than sit on top of an area in the hopes of having something else come up, there's that little thing called "life" that just keeps getting in the way.

Remember, "The BFRO" isn't some large corporate entity with limitless funds, it's a collective of individuals that are putting their own money and time into the search. You guys just don't know how badly I'd love to sit on one particular spot of interest to me for the next three months. I know there's more than one in the vicinity and they've been there for a loonngggg time, but I just can't see my wife and my boss being agreeable to little Timmy taking a three month hiatus to go and do field research. Not to mention my creditors!

Hey Fishy... get out there and guard that cave, man...

Get it? Cave man... caveman... LMAO @ me... (gratuitous inane comment... oh, lighten up frances... )

Well, look at it this way Fishy...

You don't have to claim any nasty additional income on your tax returns...




{do you smell that... or is it me?}

The question is RB, can I take any of that as a tax deduction?

I could just see the person at the IRS reviewing that 1040!

$30,000 for a thermal imaging camera...what the hell???

If I had been in that situation I think I would've opened fire.

I am puzzeled by the comment about the red meat in the feces. I would think for a carnivor that undigested meat would be a serious health problem. This reports smells more than just a little. Have any of you seen undigested meat in your own feces? Yes, you look. Don't deny it!

You've got a point tims, but if the report is taken at face value and the animal in question was in fact suffering stress from the loss of an offspring, couldn't it also stand to reason that her digestive system would also be off kilter? Just...uh..."food" for thought. (Blech!)

:yuck:

My cat ate a bird it killed and it's feces were bright red.... Don't know if that has anything to do with undiegested meat or not though. It also probably had something do with the fact that he left the bird laying there for a day first and it probably got him sick.

Geez Sachmo...... that cow bell is going to overheat already??

I dont buy this report at all.



Ok, let me get this straight, he is walking to fish with his young son, and he stops and takes the time to to investigate and discern red meat in poop?



He noticed reddish brown hairs along the path, while walking with a young child?



OK, here's this guy fishing with his kid, then there's a shrill scream and his son catches his first fish at the same time and he ignores both of these occurances to check out a washed out footprint?



That's amazing. Thanks for the scary story Steve.

I am also skeptical. First, there are a very large number of features in this account, relevant things observed and that happened. Try counting them. That makes it quite unusual. Second, some of those features are themselves unusual if not unique. Third, the way things happened and the way they are told has a fictional, or at least fictionalized, flavor. It doesn’t sound like a report but a story. That doesn’t mean it, or part of it, did not happen, but those 3 factors together make the needle on my meter shoot into the caution zone, at least.

The fact that reputable researchers checked it out is reassuring on its face, but their little note also can be read as noncommittal regarding credibility. I wonder what the well-tuned BS meters of the oldtimers around here make of this report.

Another thing… If the smell was sooo bad, why didn’t the kid complain? My experience around kids [not to mention *teenagers* <g>] is that in a situation like that, they wouldn’t be too enthusiastic to continue.

Add me to the skeptics list. The quote from his son "Why is the monkey chasing us?" is just so implausible. How did the kid get a clear view of the animal while being held in a 'football grip'? Even if he did catch a glimpse, he was then able to discern that it was a primate (monkey), and be calm enough (while Dad is in a panic carrying him back to the car) to ask a question? Most kids that age would pick up on the adult's mood and be in tears, not asking questions.

Also- 'holding something by the ankle'? What the heck? You can't identify what it is holding, but you can tell it has ankles????

Sorry, I just don't buy it. Scary story, but just that. A STORY.

Nicely stated waya.

Sometimes there are clues hidden in what is NOT obviously stated though.

Submitted by witness Steve Ames on Tuesday, April 24, 2001.

Bigfoot type creature displays apparent aggression towards former Barry County Deputy Sheriff and his young son

YEAR: 2000
SEASON: Spring
MONTH: April
DATE: wednesday

I had a man I know tell me of 18" print in the mud in the same area 5 months later. There is also one that wanders the flat creek basin. He is said to be violent. I found a habitable cave with numerous 18 " prints outside the entrance. Been there in pitch black, but no activity.

On Feb 2, 2001, Alton Higgins, Gary Helberg and myself, Roger Roberts met with Steve Ames on Roaring River, Missouri . In the 24 hour period we were on site, no new activity was noted. We did however, locate four humanoid appearing tracks near Munsey Cemetery, which when measured were, 16 inches in length, 5 1/2 inches wide and 4 inches at the heel. These tracks, along with the immediate area were photographed.

The follow-up investigation occurred two months prior to the report submission to the BFRO. Mr. Ames is in Law Enforcement and therefore trained in observation. Mr. Ames had been back to the area and was apparently doing his own follow-up investigations up to 5 months after the sighting, which would have been around September, 2000.

A child of three, almost four, would know a monkey. That's the first thing kids learn when looking at pictures - animals. M is for monkey. And in the report itself, the author puts an exclamation point with the question mark so I don't think the child was calmly asking why the monkey was chasing them.

We may just be reading the Cliff Notes version of a much longer story IMHO.

While the cliff notes version is a good explanation, it does seem very detailed and storylike. Maybe the author was embellishing somewhat once he got the BFRO's attention. If it is a real event, one possibillity that no one has mentioned is that Patty could have just given birth as they walked up to the site( ooo that smell?). If the infant was newborn(he said it looked wet) it would not be moving much anyways. I agree with the previous comment that other primates do grab their young by the ankles and arms and carry them around. Just because it seems uncaring to us does'nt mean it's not mother nature's way. :doh:

i am always amazed at all the comments that are made about individuals trying in some way to make contact or react in a diffrent way than what the poster reports. i belive i was 90 to 100ft from a "group" of sasq's, at night. i am scared **$#less to this day to be up there at night, i have been back there twice with every intention to stay the night there and see what goes bump in the night, i have left every time. i think if i had a weapon that could put out 3 to 400 rounds a minute(SAW) i would feel some what safe. i know if i had a sasq. pissed off at me and i was armed i would, if i had to, stand my ground and shoot it. hopefully that will never happen!

There are new-ish, still-legal gadgets you can buy for about $30 that attach to the trigger of an assault rifle or sub-machinegun (which are only legal to civilians with their auto-mode disabled). Once attached, one pulls on the gadget instead of the trigger and it "flutters" the trigger, providing a full-auto effect. A large gun show might have a table selling them.

Sorry but those things are utterly garbage. I worked at a gun shop range for 6 years after getting out of the army. They are sloppy to shoot; you usually have to hold the weapon in a strange and unsafe manner. And full auto is a friggin waste of ammo. If it aint belt fed, use semi.

We would not allow them on the range for 3 reasons.

1. The typical user of such devices has no business possessing a sharp stick let alone a firearm.
2. They are dangerous to use as the weapon is hard to control during such fire and they damaged our range. (Lights carriers, cables and so forth all shot to hell)
3. See #1

If you want full auto, buy a full auto. It’s the ONLY gun legal in ALL 50 States.

Course they run a few thousand dollars starting price.

Here is something to help rid those pesky possums and not wake the neighbors

Aha, so that's why they're still legal! The gov't hopes the gun nuts will shoot themselves in the foot!

Thanks for the link--I've printed out a couple of pages.

Sharp stick he says

After reading this report, I have to say I'm inclined to agree with what Clownboy says. Putting all the pieces together it does sound like the creature was pregnant ("It was also very obese in the lower stomach area") and had probably just given birth (the loud screaming probably from pain and the dangling "infant" that looked "wet") I have to admit that it's strange they would stay around to fish after the smells and yelling but the father obviously did not have bigfoot on his mind like we all would so it apparently took a bit for things to "click".

Very interesting and unusual report.

As for "undigested meat"; to the untrained eye afterbirth (the placenta specifically) can look like purplish red meat. (as an instructor of mine put it, "it looks like a blood clot/meat pancake"- remind me again why after having delivered two babies, I don't ever want to do it again!) It could have been eaten by the BF and passed through only partly digested (I've seen this in cattle before when I was growing up across the road from a dairy farm). This would jive with the report of a dead, possibly stillborn, infant in the area.

As for opening fire, I believe this would be the one situation where there would be no hesitation on my part.

The comment about the way the "infant" (assuming that's what it was) was being handled, Goofy, come over to Terre Haute sometime and I'll introduce to a woman that I saw carry her baby out of the house like that. She had gotten drunk, rolled over and suffocated the child. She awoke (still very intoxicated), called 911 and stumbled out the door as I arrived on scene carrying the baby by his left ankle. It's an image that is burned indelibly into my memory. Especially as angry as I was when she got no jail time for it.

So I don't think that a lower primate carrying a deceased infant by it's leg would be too outlandish.

Sounds kinda story like to me also,I did like the part where the child say,why is the monkey chasing us?

If the guy went in there knowing little or nothing of bigfoot, I could believe it. We'd put all the signs together because we're familiar with them, but most people probably aren't. As for what the kid said, I have no problem with it. What would one expect a 3 year old to say to something like that?

I think that the child being able to peg the BF as an ape is totally in keeping with the average knowledge of a 3-4 year old. My little brother (who isn't the sharpest tool in the shed) could identify monkeys by species (at least to the point of "Chimp, Gorilla (said as "Go-ill-ah), Orangutan ("Oh-ang-a-tan")) by the age of five. But then again, we used to watch Discovery Channel alot back then, you know when they actually had shows on it that didn't involve interior decorating or custom motorcycles. Not that I'm knocking the motorcycle shows (I watch them too) :-P

BTW, i'm not outright supporting this claim, just playing (wood)devil's advocate.

Agreed. I just didn't find anything remarkable about what the kid said. I have two kids myself, and they could certainly have asked such a question at that age. It would have been spoken in 3 year old english, with misproninciations and such, but it would have been understandable.

I'm headed out there at the end of the month probably the week of the 25th. This story has always been a little hard to swallow "but interesting if true". I found it odd that the BFRO would mention that the witness was a "former" deputy. I have limited funds so my wife and I will only bring a digital voice recorder and a digital still camera. Any suggestions on where to look and what specific details I should investigate will be greatly appreciated. Due to my wife's pregnancy she will be in a comfortable cabin while I'm out skulking at night; so I won't be able to do too much.

The bottom line here gang, is I know of two reports of Steve Ames on the BFRO website. Since I never signed a non-dislosure agreement with said organization, I can say the reports were later admitted as hoaxes.

The President of the BFRO, knew about this, but put them back up after being removed by a BFRO investigator who had learned of the admission, the BFRO President posted them again to teach Ames "a lesson."

Report 2291 HAS been removed, however another report, 1542 still remains on the BFRO data base as a Class A Oklahoma sighting.

I will eventually be writing an article on this in my blog (http://squatchd.blogspot.com/)

there is a fine line between being brave and being stoopid(typo intended)

tried to view but it say report was not found so i cont say one way or the other

Found the report at archive.org

BFRO Report #2291

Alan

Who perpetrated the hoax? The investigator? Or the witness, if one actually exists? And WHY??!! Am I to understand that there could be researchers telling tall tales in order to garner credibility or support for expeditions -- or what? Mind-bogglingly messed-up!! What's the back story here?

Hoaxes are at the root of the destruction of this field's credibility in the world. No wonder non-BF people laugh at us! I wish hoaxing was a criminal offense and people could go to jail for it!! It's so damn harmful to EVERYONE! I HATE HOAXES!

I just tried to pull this report and got a message stating it could not be found. I suppose it was pulled.

Try HERE, courtesy of Zonie.

It could happen.
I wouldn't be all that surprised if that turned out to be the case.
I'd also hope it to be a rare and/or isolated occurrence and shouldn't undermine the database as a whole......although it probably will anyway, among other things.