Hello everyone, I'm new to the site, a recent migrant from the rapidly shrinking principality that is the BFRO message boards. My name's Steve for those of you who don't know me yet.
I am trying to organize a group of field researchers, forensics people, etc. to fill the role that the BFRO was supposed to fill but instead seemingly turned down the road of turning a profit. If anyone is interested, feel free to contact me. I am trying to make this as honest and scientific an approach as I can. I am a very enthusiastic fundraiser and logistics person (that time in the military and fire service taught me something after all).
If anyone is interested in working with me, please feel free to let me know.
Thanks for your time. Everyone, have a nice night!
Stephen L. Richey, CRT, EMT-I/D
Full Version: New user wishing to form organization
Hi Stephen,
First, let me say that the BFRO Expeditions Forum is not "shrinking". It is however getting back on topic. That forum is for the expeditions, this one is for the discussion of bigfoot in general and it is the best.
Congratulations on your attempt to put together a group. That's one thing the bigfoot research world just doesn't have enough of.
I would like to educate you on a couple of small items that you are obviously unaware of, however. The BFRO is not a homogeneous group of people who all march to the beat of a single drummer. We are an organization of volunteers from all walks of life who share a common interest, that being the scientific documentation and acknowledgement of this heretofore unknown species of animal. We are an organization made up of scientists, journalists, law enforcement officers, firefighters, EMTs (), attorneys, as well as people who may not have a degree but have intimate knowledge of their environments or are quite talented as investigators.
The BFRO is a multi-faceted organization. It may be true that there is a concerted effort being made on the part of some of the organization members to generate revenue, which in turn will allow us to further research efforts in the future, but since when has it been wrong in this country to attempt to do such? Have you ever seen any statements from the BFRO stating that we are a non-profit organization?
That being said, let me also emphasize that the vast majority of the members of the BFRO spend quite a bit of their own income in fulfilling their roles as investigators. Long distance phone bills, gasoline, photographic equipment, etc. not to mention the time alone that this endeavor takes up and none of us receive any compensation for these efforts. The hunt alone is satisfaction enough for most of us.
I noticed that you said you are a very enthusiastic fundraiser. I can't help but find it rather ironic that you seem to have a problem with the BFRO trying to raise funds and yet you seem proud in your ability to do the same.
Be that as it may, I wish you luck in your endeavor. You've definitely got gumption for a twenty-three year old.
My best,
Tim Cullen, Curator
BFRO
First, let me say that the BFRO Expeditions Forum is not "shrinking". It is however getting back on topic. That forum is for the expeditions, this one is for the discussion of bigfoot in general and it is the best.
Congratulations on your attempt to put together a group. That's one thing the bigfoot research world just doesn't have enough of.
I would like to educate you on a couple of small items that you are obviously unaware of, however. The BFRO is not a homogeneous group of people who all march to the beat of a single drummer. We are an organization of volunteers from all walks of life who share a common interest, that being the scientific documentation and acknowledgement of this heretofore unknown species of animal. We are an organization made up of scientists, journalists, law enforcement officers, firefighters, EMTs (
), attorneys, as well as people who may not have a degree but have intimate knowledge of their environments or are quite talented as investigators.The BFRO is a multi-faceted organization. It may be true that there is a concerted effort being made on the part of some of the organization members to generate revenue, which in turn will allow us to further research efforts in the future, but since when has it been wrong in this country to attempt to do such? Have you ever seen any statements from the BFRO stating that we are a non-profit organization?
That being said, let me also emphasize that the vast majority of the members of the BFRO spend quite a bit of their own income in fulfilling their roles as investigators. Long distance phone bills, gasoline, photographic equipment, etc. not to mention the time alone that this endeavor takes up and none of us receive any compensation for these efforts. The hunt alone is satisfaction enough for most of us.
I noticed that you said you are a very enthusiastic fundraiser. I can't help but find it rather ironic that you seem to have a problem with the BFRO trying to raise funds and yet you seem proud in your ability to do the same.
Be that as it may, I wish you luck in your endeavor. You've definitely got gumption for a twenty-three year old.
My best,
Tim Cullen, Curator
BFRO
QUOTE(Fishbone35)
The BFRO is not a homogeneous group of people who all march to the beat of a single drummer.
Imhotep.....Imhotep...Ihmotep...Oh uhhh ...you mean I can stop now ?
It's not that I don't realize that there are expenses that go along with field operations, it that I feel if you have 20 people going along and you're charging 1200 dollars a head (this is what I have heard....if I am wrong, please correct me), that's $24,000 for one trip.
Perhaps things can be done a bit differently, smaller teams, more frequent trips, etc, to allow more people to spend more time in the field. Instead of fielding three expeditions of 20+ people per year, try fielding 8 (arbitrary number picked for the sake of argument) trips with 10 people each; the number of man-hours spent in the field is increased and if equipment can be purchased (which in the long term is a better solution than renting (as I have been told is currently done to supply the expeditions) then the cost go down as a function of time. So what money does come into the organization that has been previously channeled into renting basic camping gear, can be funneled into purchasing monitoring equipment (such as the thermal imager I am trying to procure for the BFRO through my connections with the fire service). As I said before, I am an enthusiastic fundraiser and I am also an excellent logistics person. If there is anything that anyone needs in order to conduct field work, please let me know what it is and I will be more than happy to attempt to locate it for you through my connections and get it most likely for less.
I didn't mean to speak ill, I was just speaking from opinions based on an apparent (as I and many others saw) interest on the part of the BFRO in support the desire to help bring in evidence of sasquatch.
I think instead of having multiple organizations repeating the same work over and over, there needs to come a point where we come together collectively (and I know this is a pipe dream at best) under one banner and share what we know and what works. The only reason that I had suggested forming a seperate group was because the BFRO seemed to be (as one person I spoke with put it:) "an elitist good ol' boys club", that tries it's hardest to keep people out. This is part of what fostered the impression that it had become more or less just a for-profit entity. This is just the opinion that I have gathered. I hope I am wrong because until such time as we see fit to begin working together and stop splintering apart, we will continue to spin our wheels and not get anywhere. Of course this is just my 2 cents...
Perhaps things can be done a bit differently, smaller teams, more frequent trips, etc, to allow more people to spend more time in the field. Instead of fielding three expeditions of 20+ people per year, try fielding 8 (arbitrary number picked for the sake of argument) trips with 10 people each; the number of man-hours spent in the field is increased and if equipment can be purchased (which in the long term is a better solution than renting (as I have been told is currently done to supply the expeditions) then the cost go down as a function of time. So what money does come into the organization that has been previously channeled into renting basic camping gear, can be funneled into purchasing monitoring equipment (such as the thermal imager I am trying to procure for the BFRO through my connections with the fire service). As I said before, I am an enthusiastic fundraiser and I am also an excellent logistics person. If there is anything that anyone needs in order to conduct field work, please let me know what it is and I will be more than happy to attempt to locate it for you through my connections and get it most likely for less.
I didn't mean to speak ill, I was just speaking from opinions based on an apparent (as I and many others saw) interest on the part of the BFRO in support the desire to help bring in evidence of sasquatch.
I think instead of having multiple organizations repeating the same work over and over, there needs to come a point where we come together collectively (and I know this is a pipe dream at best) under one banner and share what we know and what works. The only reason that I had suggested forming a seperate group was because the BFRO seemed to be (as one person I spoke with put it:) "an elitist good ol' boys club", that tries it's hardest to keep people out. This is part of what fostered the impression that it had become more or less just a for-profit entity. This is just the opinion that I have gathered. I hope I am wrong because until such time as we see fit to begin working together and stop splintering apart, we will continue to spin our wheels and not get anywhere. Of course this is just my 2 cents...
QUOTE(jimf @ Jul 2 2004, 10:34 PM)
QUOTE(Fishbone35)
The BFRO is not a homogeneous group of people who all march to the beat of a single drummer.
Imhotep.....Imhotep...Ihmotep...Oh uhhh ...you mean I can stop now ? 
(I get it!)
The world is free, the animals are free, and we are free.
..."the BFRO seemed to be (as one person I spoke with put it:) "an elitist good ol' boys club", that tries it's hardest to keep people out. This is part of what fostered the impression that it had become more or less just a for-profit entity."....
Ah!
I was wondering how long it would take before someone tore into you after your BFRO observation...
Ah!
I was wondering how long it would take before someone tore into you after your BFRO observation...
If the BFRO message board is not "shrinking" and the intent is to get "back on track" then why were the Skeptics threads the first to go, last night to be specific. Most of the erroneous or "off topic" discussions that emerged, as a result, I might add, of my initial posts on this board were contained in these threads, and were in proper alignment for open discussion on what was advertised as an "open forum" and reserved for the "uninitiated" but interested participants?
Furthermore, why were legitimate questions not responded to or addressed in some way, if that was the intent of this thread? And, what is so wrong with a exchange of poinant questions, comments and information?
BFRO invited these responses and questions and then, when topics turned to hard or embarrassing implications, simply because they went unanswered, its response was to shut it down and close the door.
Furthermore, why were legitimate questions not responded to or addressed in some way, if that was the intent of this thread? And, what is so wrong with a exchange of poinant questions, comments and information?
BFRO invited these responses and questions and then, when topics turned to hard or embarrassing implications, simply because they went unanswered, its response was to shut it down and close the door.
To tell you the truth Steve, I'm not sure at this moment what the current cost is for the upcoming expeditions. Things have changed several times during the set-up of these events but I should have some concrete information within the next few days. You're not the first person to voice concerns over the cost of these expeditions and I don't imagine you'll be the last. However, that portion of things is not in my hands (thankfully!).
The smaller expeditions you speak of have actually already begun. Operation Odyssey in northern California was organized by Kathy Moskowitz, Montra DuMond and Bob Strain, all curators with the BFRO. There was no admission cost at all for this and from everything I heard from the participants it was a very informative venture and a good time was had by all. There was also a recent field expedition put on in Michigan by several of our own BFF posters. From everything I understand, that event was also quite a success (although nobody brought home that naturally deceased bigfoot from either event.)
To tell you the truth, I think you've got some good ideas and opinions about certain aspects of these operations and I appreciate your input.
Regarding the BFRO and it's membership. First, let me say that I really did LOL when I read the "elitist good ol' boys club" statement. Believe me, if you knew me personally, that idea would evaporate in an instant. It is true though that membership into the organization is difficult. To be honest, there have simply been too many people in the past who have turned out to be "less than desirable" and unfortunately that didn't come to light until after their admission into the org. There have also been people who have been accepted into the organization that were ablaze with enthusiasm and drive to begin with, but after a short time their interest quickly waned and they simply disappeared into the ether. As for myself I like to consider my entry into the BFRO as the "Poster Child for Probationary Periods". The late Dr. LeRoy Fish advocated bringing on members in a probationary manner and slowly working them into the organization as they proved their long-term worth. I was the first member to fall into that and I must admit, I believe it to be the way to go myself.
I do understand where you're coming from in regards to the BFRO appearing to be a just-for-profit organization but I promise you that is simply not the case for the majority of us. And to expound further on that, any income that can be generated in the near future will more than likely only amount to enough to cover some of the larger expenses that have been incurred by certain members in the past. That's my impression, anyway.
Oh, and about that thermal imaging camera...when you get it you can mail it to Tim Cullen at...
The smaller expeditions you speak of have actually already begun. Operation Odyssey in northern California was organized by Kathy Moskowitz, Montra DuMond and Bob Strain, all curators with the BFRO. There was no admission cost at all for this and from everything I heard from the participants it was a very informative venture and a good time was had by all. There was also a recent field expedition put on in Michigan by several of our own BFF posters. From everything I understand, that event was also quite a success (although nobody brought home that naturally deceased bigfoot from either event.)
To tell you the truth, I think you've got some good ideas and opinions about certain aspects of these operations and I appreciate your input.
Regarding the BFRO and it's membership. First, let me say that I really did LOL when I read the "elitist good ol' boys club" statement. Believe me, if you knew me personally, that idea would evaporate in an instant. It is true though that membership into the organization is difficult. To be honest, there have simply been too many people in the past who have turned out to be "less than desirable" and unfortunately that didn't come to light until after their admission into the org. There have also been people who have been accepted into the organization that were ablaze with enthusiasm and drive to begin with, but after a short time their interest quickly waned and they simply disappeared into the ether. As for myself I like to consider my entry into the BFRO as the "Poster Child for Probationary Periods". The late Dr. LeRoy Fish advocated bringing on members in a probationary manner and slowly working them into the organization as they proved their long-term worth. I was the first member to fall into that and I must admit, I believe it to be the way to go myself.
I do understand where you're coming from in regards to the BFRO appearing to be a just-for-profit organization but I promise you that is simply not the case for the majority of us. And to expound further on that, any income that can be generated in the near future will more than likely only amount to enough to cover some of the larger expenses that have been incurred by certain members in the past. That's my impression, anyway.
Oh, and about that thermal imaging camera...when you get it you can mail it to Tim Cullen at...
No wonder the native americans don't want to talk to the white man about
Sasquatch! Just look for yourself don't worry about it. The Sasquatch have been here for thousands of years, now look what we're doing imhotep... imhotep... good one jimf!
Sasquatch! Just look for yourself don't worry about it. The Sasquatch have been here for thousands of years, now look what we're doing imhotep... imhotep...
good one jimf!
VideoArts,
The forum was closed because, as you stated yourself, it was not being "tended to". That, and many of the threads were beginning to devolve into discussions that were clearly outside of the original intent of that category to begin with.
You seem to be under the impression that the BFRO is an organization with limitless resources and/or personnel. And while I can certainly understand your frustration about not having someone from our organization knocking at your door in what you would consider a timely manner, you must certainly be able to realize that we are an organization of volunteers with bills to pay, families to take care of, jobs to go to, and a limited amount of revenue to accomplish our extracurricular activities. It would be great if we were all millionaires that could drop everything at a moment's notice and head straight for the most recent sighting but that is simply not possible. Believe me, I really wish it were.
The forum was closed because, as you stated yourself, it was not being "tended to". That, and many of the threads were beginning to devolve into discussions that were clearly outside of the original intent of that category to begin with.
You seem to be under the impression that the BFRO is an organization with limitless resources and/or personnel. And while I can certainly understand your frustration about not having someone from our organization knocking at your door in what you would consider a timely manner, you must certainly be able to realize that we are an organization of volunteers with bills to pay, families to take care of, jobs to go to, and a limited amount of revenue to accomplish our extracurricular activities. It would be great if we were all millionaires that could drop everything at a moment's notice and head straight for the most recent sighting but that is simply not possible. Believe me, I really wish it were.
Fishbone35,
Your reasoning makes sense, however, with the amount of participation that goes on in this forum by BFRO members, it doesn't ring true.
You say, "You seem to be under the impression that the BFRO is an organization with limitless resources and/or personnel." Do I? What gives you that impression and/or when did I say that?
"And while I can certainly understand your frustration about not having someone from our organization knocking at your door in what you would consider a timely manner," you continue... Well, considering the fact that I've been waiting for over a year now, and it isn't even a matter of that. When people that represent an organization say they're going to show, twice and then don't, I don't think my impression is anything like what you describe here.
Given that I, myself, am nothing more than a volunteer as well in my efforts, I don't see that as a valid argument or excuse of anything. You're telling me that after taking in $24,000 on an expedition, only one, mind you, that a simple phone call, return email and a plane ticket or gas is out of the question? C'mon, who are you kidding. (And I don't want you or anyone else to think that I'm attacking you on this. You're just the messenger and someone willing to placate me with some answers, at the moment.)
I just watched someone who thought they had great pictures and a great sighting get more attention in just over 24 hours than it was ever worth. I've got a whole damn habitation going on from what this organization is supposed to be devoted to and I can't even get a time or date... well, let's just say that before a couple of days ago... but they're still not here and won't be for a couple of weeks, and it's going to be on the rebound of another trip for them one afternoon. But the only way that happened is because of what I started posting on the BFRO site and here. So, who's asking for anything that's out of the ordinary or takes a millionaire to provide, huh?
Your reasoning makes sense, however, with the amount of participation that goes on in this forum by BFRO members, it doesn't ring true.
You say, "You seem to be under the impression that the BFRO is an organization with limitless resources and/or personnel." Do I? What gives you that impression and/or when did I say that?
"And while I can certainly understand your frustration about not having someone from our organization knocking at your door in what you would consider a timely manner," you continue... Well, considering the fact that I've been waiting for over a year now, and it isn't even a matter of that. When people that represent an organization say they're going to show, twice and then don't, I don't think my impression is anything like what you describe here.
Given that I, myself, am nothing more than a volunteer as well in my efforts, I don't see that as a valid argument or excuse of anything. You're telling me that after taking in $24,000 on an expedition, only one, mind you, that a simple phone call, return email and a plane ticket or gas is out of the question? C'mon, who are you kidding. (And I don't want you or anyone else to think that I'm attacking you on this. You're just the messenger and someone willing to placate me with some answers, at the moment.)
I just watched someone who thought they had great pictures and a great sighting get more attention in just over 24 hours than it was ever worth. I've got a whole damn habitation going on from what this organization is supposed to be devoted to and I can't even get a time or date... well, let's just say that before a couple of days ago... but they're still not here and won't be for a couple of weeks, and it's going to be on the rebound of another trip for them one afternoon. But the only way that happened is because of what I started posting on the BFRO site and here. So, who's asking for anything that's out of the ordinary or takes a millionaire to provide, huh?
VideoArts does have a very valid point.....if he is telling the truth (and thus far) he has not given me any reason to doubt the validity of his statements), then if the BFRO were truly interested in getting hard evidence, I would think his location would be of high priority.
There is an expression in the fire service, "You deal with the couch, before overhauling the walls"; for those of you who aren't firefighters, basically it means you deal with the obvious flames (a flaming couch) before going to look for hidden fire (fire in the walls). The same would hold true in cases such as what is going on in Jersey. You guys were all over Honobia.....why not do the same thing in Jersey (although you aren't dealing with gun toting rednecks in Jersey)?
But as I said before, this is just my two cents......
There is an expression in the fire service, "You deal with the couch, before overhauling the walls"; for those of you who aren't firefighters, basically it means you deal with the obvious flames (a flaming couch) before going to look for hidden fire (fire in the walls). The same would hold true in cases such as what is going on in Jersey. You guys were all over Honobia.....why not do the same thing in Jersey (although you aren't dealing with gun toting rednecks in Jersey)?
But as I said before, this is just my two cents......
Chill dude, maybe its your additude.......... 
Blackdog,
Easy to say, and I understand why you would say that... however, unless you've read my account, you know little of what I'm talking about. No offense.
Easy to say, and I understand why you would say that... however, unless you've read my account, you know little of what I'm talking about. No offense.
You should see his footprint video. "I'm not steppin' on it."
What if I do read it and find it not credible?...Gawd I've read hundreds of accounts.
BTW someone forward it to me and I'll read it at my leisure, I don't need you to tell me to keep reading it.... you're really turning me off.
BTW someone forward it to me and I'll read it at my leisure, I don't need you to tell me to keep reading it.... you're really turning me off.
And By the way I saw your son's postings on the Above Top Secret Website, so I'm not totally ignorant.
BD,
Sorry, not intended, but you seem to be quick to judge something with out knowing all the evidence, even by your own admission just now. Not a good way to approach a topic, I think. Didn't ask you to read it, just stated that if you hadn't, you really have little basis of comment. Doesn't mean you can't just means it's not valid to the discussion. And as far as turning you off, change the channel, you're the one talking, not me.
What??? So, does that mean that you're only partially ignorant?
Sorry, not intended, but you seem to be quick to judge something with out knowing all the evidence, even by your own admission just now. Not a good way to approach a topic, I think. Didn't ask you to read it, just stated that if you hadn't, you really have little basis of comment. Doesn't mean you can't just means it's not valid to the discussion. And as far as turning you off, change the channel, you're the one talking, not me.
What??? So, does that mean that you're only partially ignorant?
Look, I'm not here to banter with the curious, and I don't want to draw anyone into this type of non-productive discourse, as I don't want to be either. So, I'm just going to wait to see if the silence here is as deafening as the silence of the BFRO board.
Change the channel to what? Not counting the thread about your account this is the third one you've been in hawking your story, so you've been doing your share of talking. And in case you didn't notice this is not your topic. Sorry usafmedic45.
QUOTE(VideoArts @ Jul 2 2004, 11:11 PM)
Look, I'm not here to banter with the curious, and I don't want to draw anyone into this type of non-productive discourse, as I don't want to be either. So, I'm just going to wait to see if the silence here is as deafening as the silence of the BFRO board.
You know VA, I think you ARE here to banter with "the curious". I have your "document" and the little film clip of the footprint that you were kind enough to bestow upon us uninformed. And, frankly, I don't see that you have anything more impressive than a thousand other people who swear by their story...myself included.
You keep harping on how the BFRO didn't jump on what you have, and how it's taken them weeks to get to your place. I have a gut feeling that you're just pissed that maybe you're not, in your opinion, being taken seriously enough.
This information that you have touched the edge of here, is just another story that we are being told. That's it...nothing more. I'm in no way saying that every single word of your account is not true. But, until that time that you can provide something other than a pretty good written story, it will be just that, a story.
You can blame the BFRO or anyone else that you think may have slighted you, but it's up to you to come up with the evidence to prove that you have what you say you have. And frankly, a bunch of written words, no matter how impressively they are written, and a short film clip, just ain't gonna do it.
Get out there and prove me wrong...I dare you. I hope like hell that everything you say is true. But, when you've been fed crap as long as some of us have, it ends up tasting just like shit.
Thanks for allowing me to add my 2 pennies worth.
JayleeD,
Sorry, took a walk... Ok, you read the account, is there anything that you have doubts about or would like to comment upon?
But it hasn't been weeks, it's been over a year. And having spent only a few days here, I know what you guys must have to deal with regarding the BS.
The point of my rant, I guess it would be categorized, is that we are taking steps here to do what you suggest. The BFRO removing the threads, however, on that board, is counter-productive to that effort. I was receiving daily contact from people that were interested in helping out in that manner, which was obvious from the posts and responses. I just see it as another way to stall the progress and an attempt to eliminate the avenue of that communication.
I just asked the questions, why? And so far, no real answers, like all the rest of the no real response.
Sorry, took a walk... Ok, you read the account, is there anything that you have doubts about or would like to comment upon?
But it hasn't been weeks, it's been over a year. And having spent only a few days here, I know what you guys must have to deal with regarding the BS.
The point of my rant, I guess it would be categorized, is that we are taking steps here to do what you suggest. The BFRO removing the threads, however, on that board, is counter-productive to that effort. I was receiving daily contact from people that were interested in helping out in that manner, which was obvious from the posts and responses. I just see it as another way to stall the progress and an attempt to eliminate the avenue of that communication.
I just asked the questions, why? And so far, no real answers, like all the rest of the no real response.
QUOTE(VideoArts @ Jul 3 2004, 12:07 AM)
BD,
Sorry, not intended, but you seem to be quick to judge something with out knowing all the evidence, even by your own admission just now. Not a good way to approach a topic, I think. Didn't ask you to read it, just stated that if you hadn't, you really have little basis of comment. Doesn't mean you can't just means it's not valid to the discussion. And as far as turning you off, change the channel, you're the one talking, not me.
What??? So, does that mean that you're only partially ignorant?
Sorry, not intended, but you seem to be quick to judge something with out knowing all the evidence, even by your own admission just now. Not a good way to approach a topic, I think. Didn't ask you to read it, just stated that if you hadn't, you really have little basis of comment. Doesn't mean you can't just means it's not valid to the discussion. And as far as turning you off, change the channel, you're the one talking, not me.
What??? So, does that mean that you're only partially ignorant?
Coming in here as a brand new member and insulting established and well-respected members, is NOT the way to earn yourself any credibility here.
Be a shame if you really DID have something going on out there and nobody paid attention because they were so put off by you.
Well said, Stacy. And you read my mind.
You can still catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!
...not that any of you are flies...never mind
You can still catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!
...not that any of you are flies...never mind
QUOTE(VideoArts @ Jul 2 2004, 09:08 PM)
I just asked the questions, why? And so far, no real answers, like all the rest of the no real response.
I believe if you go back and re-read Fishbone's posts, your questions were answered. It's really no one's fault if you aren't satified with the answer.
As for Jaylee's response....AMEN!
Redwolf
Question: Who did I insult? The person who said to me:
Why is it when someone has something to say here and he's assumed to be not credible, just because that's a good conversation stopper, does that person get criticized for defending themselves? Did I not politely respond to even that comment? I guess it all a matter of who's who's buddy or who has seniority? Is that it?
QUOTE
What if I do read it and find it not credible?...Gawd I've read hundreds of accounts.
BTW someone forward it to me and I'll read it at my leisure, I don't need you to tell me to keep reading it.... you're really turning me off.
BTW someone forward it to me and I'll read it at my leisure, I don't need you to tell me to keep reading it.... you're really turning me off.
Why is it when someone has something to say here and he's assumed to be not credible, just because that's a good conversation stopper, does that person get criticized for defending themselves? Did I not politely respond to even that comment? I guess it all a matter of who's who's buddy or who has seniority? Is that it?
Like I tried to say before... maybe it's your additude.
Redwolf,
I read Fish's responses, the first time, and I answered them. If you read my response, it pretty much says that I didn't buy it. Did an educated answer come back to refute my comments? No.
I don't have much of a problem with real info or the facts, just the assumption of them. But, ya' know what, I'm not so sure that I'm going to get those answers tonight here, and Blackdog was right, this is not my thread, I just chimed in.
So, I'm not going to "hawk my story" here, (but that's not an insult either is it?), I'll just sit in the background and see if I can learn something from the more senior members.
I read Fish's responses, the first time, and I answered them. If you read my response, it pretty much says that I didn't buy it. Did an educated answer come back to refute my comments? No.
I don't have much of a problem with real info or the facts, just the assumption of them. But, ya' know what, I'm not so sure that I'm going to get those answers tonight here, and Blackdog was right, this is not my thread, I just chimed in.
So, I'm not going to "hawk my story" here, (but that's not an insult either is it?), I'll just sit in the background and see if I can learn something from the more senior members.
QUOTE(VideoArts @ Jul 3 2004, 01:25 AM)
Question: Who did I insult? The person who said to me:
QUOTE
What if I do read it and find it not credible?...Gawd I've read hundreds of accounts.
BTW someone forward it to me and I'll read it at my leisure, I don't need you to tell me to keep reading it.... you're really turning me off.
BTW someone forward it to me and I'll read it at my leisure, I don't need you to tell me to keep reading it.... you're really turning me off.
Blackdog... Barkley... those are the two that I can think of off the top of my head without going back and looking for more.
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Why is it when someone has something to say here and he's assumed to be not credible, just because that's a good conversation stopper, does that person get criticized for defending themselves? Did I not politely respond to even that comment? I guess it all a matter of who's who's buddy or who has seniority? Is that it
Nope, neither. It is a matter of fact that usually when a newbie comes in here with a fantastic story and gets all defensive and then goes on the offensive, it's because they don't have anything concrete to back up their claims and thus try to steer attention away from that fact by trying to either play the victim, or make someone else out to be the bad guy. I'm not suggesting that's your reason for behaving the way you have...you might well have something going on there. But that attitude automatically makes you suspect. As I said, it would be a shame if nobody paid attention because of it.
StacyInMI,
Thank you for that very astute observation... I mean that, because unless you pointed that out, I would not have realized that or any way to realize that. Barkley, yes, that was a misunderstanding, and I think we covered that on that thread. But, again, my response was a result of what I thought was a response to my comments. Read that exchange from that perspective and, hopefully, you'll give me the benefit of the doubt.
Blackdog, well, I think that I already commented on that above. I offered him an explanation of my position and that didn't seem credible enough for him. Won't happen again, not with him.
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It is a matter of fact that usually when a newbie comes in here with a fantastic story and gets all defensive and then goes on the offensive, it's because they don't have anything concrete to back up their claims and thus try to steer attention away from that fact by trying to either play the victim, or make someone else out to be the bad guy. So, by coming in here with the attitude that you have, behaving the way you have, it automatically makes you suspect and lowers your credibility.
Thank you for that very astute observation... I mean that, because unless you pointed that out, I would not have realized that or any way to realize that. Barkley, yes, that was a misunderstanding, and I think we covered that on that thread. But, again, my response was a result of what I thought was a response to my comments. Read that exchange from that perspective and, hopefully, you'll give me the benefit of the doubt.
Blackdog, well, I think that I already commented on that above. I offered him an explanation of my position and that didn't seem credible enough for him. Won't happen again, not with him.
What Stacy just said. And:
Probably a good idea. And yes, I have read your account. I must ask, if you are so dedicated to this cause, then where are all of the track cast that you busted your butt to get at all cost, after searching high and low to get the proper casting material, even if it was sold miles away? Where's all the pics that show any one member of the army of bigfoots that are supposedly traipsing around all over the place there? Whats that, you don't have any? Well, then
, I've heard it all before. Just another day at the water cooler. MG is holding a prayer service just down the hall, in the padded wing, I hear the koolaid is great, but don't eat the cookies. Have a nice life. Thanks for the bedtime story though. 
QUOTE(VideoArts @ Jul 3 2004, 11:33 AM)
.....I'll just sit in the background and see if I can learn something from the more senior members.
Probably a good idea. And yes, I have read your account. I must ask, if you are so dedicated to this cause, then where are all of the track cast that you busted your butt to get at all cost, after searching high and low to get the proper casting material, even if it was sold miles away? Where's all the pics that show any one member of the army of bigfoots that are supposedly traipsing around all over the place there? Whats that, you don't have any? Well, then
, I've heard it all before. Just another day at the water cooler. MG is holding a prayer service just down the hall, in the padded wing, I hear the koolaid is great, but don't eat the cookies. Have a nice life. Thanks for the bedtime story though.
However, StacyInMi, I do have concrete things to back up my claims, just that no one seems to want to see them. There are exceptions, of course, to that. How was I to know that BD had received a copy of my stuff without my emailing it? I was simply stating that he hadn't, to my knowledge, and didn't think that was a fair perspective. I have no doubt that BFRO, however, has read my account, since I know for a fact that I've sent it to more than one member.
Volsquatch,
What's another casting or dark, blurry picture going to prove? But I like your attitude about it, at least, and you have had the courtesy to comment after doing so.
What's another casting or dark, blurry picture going to prove? But I like your attitude about it, at least, and you have had the courtesy to comment after doing so.
So much for giving you the benefit of the doubt, VA. Lose the attitude before you lose any more respect. Maybe the BFRO could have acted faster, but then again maybe they have better leads that they are using their resources for at the moment. As I said before in the other topic thread, you don't have a body so you are in the same boat as every other BF researcher. Just take it down a notch, please. Take a deep breath, and just chill a little, dude. There are some really good people on these forums, and some of the best you have already crossed. There are quite a few people who can help you, you know. Don't alienate them all!
QUOTE(VideoArts @ Jul 3 2004, 12:08 AM)
JayleeD,
Sorry, took a walk... Ok, you read the account, is there anything that you have doubts about or would like to comment upon?
But it hasn't been weeks, it's been over a year. And having spent only a few days here, I know what you guys must have to deal with regarding the BS.
The point of my rant, I guess it would be categorized, is that we are taking steps here to do what you suggest. The BFRO removing the threads, however, on that board, is counter-productive to that effort. I was receiving daily contact from people that were interested in helping out in that manner, which was obvious from the posts and responses. I just see it as another way to stall the progress and an attempt to eliminate the avenue of that communication.
I just asked the questions, why? And so far, no real answers, like all the rest of the no real response.
Sorry, took a walk... Ok, you read the account, is there anything that you have doubts about or would like to comment upon?
But it hasn't been weeks, it's been over a year. And having spent only a few days here, I know what you guys must have to deal with regarding the BS.
The point of my rant, I guess it would be categorized, is that we are taking steps here to do what you suggest. The BFRO removing the threads, however, on that board, is counter-productive to that effort. I was receiving daily contact from people that were interested in helping out in that manner, which was obvious from the posts and responses. I just see it as another way to stall the progress and an attempt to eliminate the avenue of that communication.
I just asked the questions, why? And so far, no real answers, like all the rest of the no real response.
That's cool. But getting upset with the BFRO isn't solving your problem. And as far as them removing threads, I was under the impression that the forum was set up to discuss the past and future expeditions that the volunteer members of BFRO were undertaking. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
And tell me, what POSSIBLE reason would the BFRO, or any organization, have to stall the process and attempt to eliminate an avenue of communication? Is this going to further their cause? It seems that you feel slighted in some way. Can you tell me in your own words just what it is that you feel happened to cause you to feel this way? Could it be that you are just frustrated in that you feel you have something worthwhile to add and it's not being taken seriously? If you are unhappy with the response that you have received from them, maybe you should contact other organizations and see if they have something more productive to offer.
You asked if there is a part of the report that I have doubts about or have comments on. Not necessarily. Like I said before, it's no different than thousands of reports that have been posted before. IMO, it's up to you to tell us why your report should be treated differently.
You show me exactly where I critisized your story. I only said your additude sucked. I guess I'm not the only one who thinks so.
Wildman, not looking to alienate anyone and will take your advice. But consider this... do you need a body when you've got them walking all over the place? Difficult to believe, I admit, but you don't have any way to refute that do you? And neither do I, however, that's the crux of the issue, isn't it?
Well, when you recover from your flogging get a crisp clean picture of a bigfoot eating a crisp clean apple....just kidding 
keep up the good work!
keep up the good work!
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do you need a body when you've got them walking all over the place? Difficult to believe, I admit, but you don't have any way to refute that do you? And neither do I, however, that's the crux of the issue, isn't it?
Ya' dang skippy that's the crux of the issue. It's not up to anyone to prove that you don't have bf walking all over the place, it's up to you to prove that you do if it's really that important to you, and you want people to believe you. Apparently, from reading your posts, you are searching for acceptance or something.
JayleeD, you are really keeping me on my toes, and that's cool. The BFRO message board had a Skeptics thread with an invitation to post, advertised as an open forum. Once it started to broaden to some interesting ones, they deleted it.
However, let me take this back to the reasons I posted there in the first place... I happened to visit the site one day, after having not done so for a while, and that's when I discovered the message board and saw the info on the expeditions, the cost they were charging. On numerous occassions, I had already asked them why are they looking for needles in a haystack, when I had plenty of what they were looking for within blocks of my house. So, I asked if anyone was interested in expeditions in NJ/PA/NY and then it really got interesting. I received tons of emails from people, all of which asked to read the account I mentioned in my post. There were no questions as to "why I gotta emal you?" or "why you hawkin' your story here?"
Then a few people mentioned that I should check out this board too. Tried to inject the same kind of idea, in hopes of reaching some experienced individuals for some further investigation and you guys pretty much know how it's been going. It's like pulling teeth to even get some people to just simply take the time to read what is going on here, let alone talk about it from an informed perspective.
Let me ask you a question, though... how many people you have here that have or can make the statement that I've got abundant BF here, no need for wilderness expeditions, no need for $1200 investments in the hope of seeing something? How many people are committed enough, in their belief of that that can say I can prove it in less than 48 hours?
However, let me take this back to the reasons I posted there in the first place... I happened to visit the site one day, after having not done so for a while, and that's when I discovered the message board and saw the info on the expeditions, the cost they were charging. On numerous occassions, I had already asked them why are they looking for needles in a haystack, when I had plenty of what they were looking for within blocks of my house. So, I asked if anyone was interested in expeditions in NJ/PA/NY and then it really got interesting. I received tons of emails from people, all of which asked to read the account I mentioned in my post. There were no questions as to "why I gotta emal you?" or "why you hawkin' your story here?"
Then a few people mentioned that I should check out this board too. Tried to inject the same kind of idea, in hopes of reaching some experienced individuals for some further investigation and you guys pretty much know how it's been going. It's like pulling teeth to even get some people to just simply take the time to read what is going on here, let alone talk about it from an informed perspective.
Let me ask you a question, though... how many people you have here that have or can make the statement that I've got abundant BF here, no need for wilderness expeditions, no need for $1200 investments in the hope of seeing something? How many people are committed enough, in their belief of that that can say I can prove it in less than 48 hours?
Maheekat, you kill me, man...
QUOTE(VideoArts @ Jul 2 2004, 11:19 PM)
Wildman, not looking to alienate anyone and will take your advice. But consider this... do you need a body when you've got them walking all over the place? Difficult to believe, I admit, but you don't have any way to refute that do you? And neither do I, however, that's the crux of the issue, isn't it?
And until there is actual proof that their that they truly are walking around, concrete and irrefutable, then it is just heresay. Pictures can be faked, video can be faked, etc. The BFRO can send an investigator to your place, and he could take a photo and claim that all you say is true, but that would even be suspect to many. The BF research community is an overly suspicious one, so try not to be so offended by those who doubt you. If you've got the goods, and the BFRO are going to investigate, then maybe you should just wait a bit and see how that all pans out. The BFF will be a tad more willing to accept your statements with a few more people to back you up with their accounts of the hotspot you've been investigating.
Oops didn't see Wilman's post........having other witnesses (outside of teenagers) would help I would think.
Granted, Wildman, good advice and I agree. But realize that it's taken me taking the risk of what I've been doing, here and on the BFRO board that even got me a call from them to say they're coming in two weeks. And that was from someone who took it upon himself, after reading my posts, to take that initiative.
Do you guys think that the video I sent out is the only thing I've sent to them? You think I'm that niave? I had an almost daily, if not weekly commentary going with them while this was all going on, when it first started. I have no doubt that they took me seriously. Look at the original post, at that was just the first conversation.
Do you guys think that the video I sent out is the only thing I've sent to them? You think I'm that niave? I had an almost daily, if not weekly commentary going with them while this was all going on, when it first started. I have no doubt that they took me seriously. Look at the original post, at that was just the first conversation.
Heather, nice to hear from you... yes, I've taken the role of the spokesperson in this regard. There are others, adults as well. Since the posts on the BFRO site, I've had visits from people who were closer than most. They're on the team that will begin further investigations in early August. I've got a commercial pilot, who contacted me, came to check it out for himself, and has offered to do air recon before we start. I've got several other and growing.
Looking forward to hearing how things turn out for you up there. Good luck!
Heather, thanks, I'll let you know...
Wildman, you got it...
Wildman, you got it...
QUOTE(Wildman @ Jul 3 2004, 12:13 AM)
There are some really good people on these forums, and some of the best you have already crossed.
Who crossed who?
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There are quite a few people who can help you, you know.
In what way?
Ah, just thought of something that is very important to the mix of things... NJ is a no firarms state... can't bring 'em in and unless it's hunting season, you can't carry 'em around. Haven't mentioned that here yet... but I think it has profound effect on why I've been left hanging. Anyone "on the inside," if you want to refute that statement, I'd like to know.
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