First of RY post in the opening of this thread is:



He goes on to say further:



And at the very end RY states:



If you shoot Bobbie an e-mail and she responds; I believe you'll find that this story is not plagerized. If you read the story and the smidgits I cut out and qouted you will see he never claims it to be true. I don't see any need for questions to be answered about the authenticity of the story. It's just that....a story. A well written, very entertaining story. Nothing more. Read and enjoy, just don't make it in to something it was never claimed to be.

Please understand that in no way was I saying that Bobbie Short plagerized the above story. This is a good example of how the Fair Usage provisions of the copyright laws work.

Didn't say that....guess I need to explain what I ment. RY was accused of plagerizing the story.



I was meaning for the person to contact Bobbie and ask her where she got the story. I believe they would find out RY didn't plagerize. Your absolutely right about the Fair Usage provisions. Sorry for the misunderstanding Bill.....I'm like you, I believe it was posted to Bobbie's site after it was here.

Mike

Rob Zombie is planning a horror movie based on a comic he did with Steve Niles and Richard Corben. It starts off in 1973 with a version of the Coweta story, but in this one the Sas bursts in on his parents and his father stabs it in the eye with deer antlers. It loses an eye then kills the man and steals his wife.

The little boy is traumatized when no one believes that it wasn't a bear. He grows up in the city and returns to hunt down the beast as an adult when he reads a mysterious newspaper story about the body of a dead bear (already in a state of rigor mortis) being thrown into the windshield of a car somehow and its driver going missing.

Little Coweta boy out for revenge for his parents. Could be a decent BF flick at last.

- Dfoot

Is there any way to find out when Bobbie posted that story to her website? It's been on the BFF for over a year and a half. I remember when it was first posted.

It doesn't say who wrote the story on Bobbie's site. I wouldn't be surprised that it was RespendentYeti who submitted it to her. He printed it here in June of 2004 and it's allegedly been on Bobbie's site for about a year. Makes sense to me. Either that or Bobbie copied it from the BFF.

Who knows? But I wouldn't accuse RY of plagerism unless you have a few more facts to back up your case.

I also remember when the story was first posted and that RY never claimed the story to be anything but a story that couldn't be confirmed. It's very possible that he posted it to Bobbie's site, or since Ms. Short is a member here, it's very possible she read the story and asked RY if she could reprint the story.

Until you have YOUR facts straight, don't accuse someone of stealing this story. Shame on YOU.

If you read through all of replies from the original poster you will see that they claim that THEY (not someone else) had just written it, and how difficult it was for them to write it, and how they are considering writing a book about what their father said, etc., etc. All I am saying is that they couldn't have just written it since I have had the exact same story (except for the first part about just getting some time off from Kodak) saved on my computer for almost two years.

This is my first post here in quite a while, I haven’t visited the site regularly for a while and was surprised to see it gone for a time. I’m glad it’s back to it’s old self. The story is mine, related to me by my Father and I posted it only here. I have no idea how it got on Bobbie’s site, but I plan on emailing her to find out. I really don’t care that it is posted there, but it would be nice if she would credit it to me to avoid the above confusion over the authorship.

In regards to some posters thinking the story is just B.S.; as I’ve stated many times, I wasn’t there, it was related to me third hand and happened close to forty years ago now. I understand that some of you would like more information to do further research, contact witnesses and so forth, but I’m afraid that is just not possible. My Dad was reluctant to even tell the story, and he made it quite clear to me that he didn’t want me to attempt to contact the family in question. I would love to get the first hand account, but it would be of no real evidentiary value. There is no way any physical evidence could be present after this much time, and we would end up with merely another decades old unprovable account of no real consequence.

I’m happy to see people are still reading and enjoying the story, I’ve been debating on wether or not to post another story from roughly the same time period. It occurred just outside of Elma, Wa., and I was a bit older when it happened and heard first hand some of the details. It too involved some of my Dad’s crew while they were cutting blocks for the mill...

SIGH, The original post and his replies are almost 2 years old. June 2004

Resplendent Yeti, I for one would like to hear the Elma story. I have been drawn to that area, the Satsop
river, the Wynoochee river, the whole area is rich with possibilities. So a story from that area has my attention.
Galahad.

RY, I too would like to hear the Elma story, since I've been spending more time in my old home area, Grays Harbor, and its been to darned wet to really get anywhere to check out some of my old "stomping grounds" so to speak. Might as well get some good inspiration from you, and live a little vicariously.

Even though there is a disclaimer, i think there is enough allegedly known sasquatch behaviour in this "story", to think it may be true ... to the letter.

Anyone whom may think different ....



Ease up people, .... its just a story, and there is NO copywrite. Dont sweat the petty sh*t, pet the sweaty sh*t !!!! Q !!!!!

Okay, okay, I'm going, I'm going to check the BFF thread out...

...First - glad to see you back online........bravo!

..Second - The Cowman of Copolis Beach story was sent to Bigfoot Encounters a long time ago by a number of people, if I remember correctly... but it had no citation. I didn't have a clue who wrote it.

Still......there were a number of site searches (on my website) for the cowman story last fall sometime, a rash of them....so I uploaded it not knowing who originally sent it and recently posted a call for the author to email me. Hey...fiction or non-fiction....everyone loves a great story...and it is uploaded under "stories" not "sightings."

Today I have had four responses all claiming to be the author of the original Cowman story, one is probably real, the other "clowns." But which?

"If" ReplendentYeti is the author (and I'm not questioning it, just asking...)

.....then why, when you contacted me from a Swiss webmail account does it say
the origination of the IP address was Q-west in Denver, Colorado and you
have yourself listed as Lewis County, Washington on this list??

I really don't care who the author is, it's A GREAT STORY, widely read and is hugely complimentary to the writer's skills.

I applaud whoever wrote it. I just wish I could sort out who wrote it.....certainly I did not write it, --- I am incapable of writing anything but commentaries....and usually only do that when hormonally challenged and low on caffeine... ha.

My questions aren't fully answered, but I hope this helps with the curious on this list.....eh?
....and sorry I didn't respond earlier, life has its other priorities nowadays.

Glad you are back up and functioning Happy New Year to BFFers.... I love you all...

Bobbie Short

Love ya too Bobbie !!!!!!!!!!!!

Wb all.

O.K. ------------Please - Please post the new story!!!!!!!!! Rock on Dude. We will know from your style of writing if this is your story or stories or not. post it! post! post it! post it!

Johny















\

I second the request, RY,...please post the other Elma story/stories?! Too bad the Copalis Beach incident happened so long ago. Anyway, it was well written (certainly worthy of Bobbie Short's site) and I saved it to my own personal "database" collection immediately upon reading it. - As to whether or not I think it may really have happened,...all I can say is I sure didn't spot any red flags to the contrary. All elements certainly seem entirely within the relm of plausibility. - Thank goodness there's nothing about orbs, UFO's or telepathy. LOL,...I'm kinda surprised this recounting hasn't been ripped and retold by "he who must not be named" claiming it as his own, punched-up with photos of foliage and red circles yet!

Good to see you back around RY and yes I'd like to read the new story.
Many thanks for you also Bobbie for addressing this. You have an awsome site and are a true asset to the field.


Rock on,
Mike2k1

First of all, thank you Bobbie for responding both here and to my email. I can understand the confusion regarding my identity, especially the Denver, Lewis County, Switzerland thing. I live in Lewis County, WA., and have Qwest DSL. When you do a Whois for any of the IP’s they use here, the office of the registrar is listed as being in Denver, Co. for whatever reason. I use the Swiss email address because of certain unsavory characters I encountered on an unrelated site a few years back. Swissmail.org is the only server I have found that these loonies are unable to penetrate. It’s expensive, but the security and peace of mind are worth it.

I have accumulated quite a collection of stories/encounters over the years, and have recently decided to pull them all together into a manuscript. This incident has made me re-think the act of blithely posting my intellectual property on a public forum with no protections. I was recently sent a PM from a man who claims he works for an unnamed film producer who was pitched the idea for a movie that is shockingly similar to the story I posted here. If this is true, and the Cowman of Copalis Beach is made into a short film, or elaborated on and made into a feature length production, I will have no legal recourse for the theft of my work. I have recently filed the required forms with the Library of Congress to copyright this story, and will do so with all future work I may post here or elsewhere. I don’t mean to come off as bitter or angry, but when I am accused of plagiarizing my own work, and then told that several other people wish to take credit for it and possibly profit from it, I must take some action to protect it.

I have nothing but respect for this forum and the majority of it’s members, and have enjoyed countless hours of entertainment and enlightenment herein. The same goes for Bobbie’s site, I maintain a couple of non-bigfoot related sites and I know the work and dedication that goes in to making a website as great as either one of these. I will continue to post stories to this site, and Bobbie is welcome to publish them on her site as well, all I ask is that they be given proper credit.

It may be a while before I post any of the other stories, I have decided to wait until they are under protection of copyright, as I intend to publish them in the near future.

P.S.

Thanks all, for the welcomes, it’s good to be back at the forum. I hope to be participating here more regularly soon.

Well I sure enjoyed your story, and would enjoy reading more. I hope you can et the legal stuff sorted so you can get the credit for your story and maybe some movie rights as well. Until somone can flat out say you did not write the story I believe you, just the way you write your posts suggests that you did in fact write it. Isn't it innocent until proven guilty, not hang them and see what happens later? I see no one else stepping up to claim they had written it.

RY, it's really good to see you back on the BFF. I understand about the need to copywrite your work, and wish you much luck in getting that done. I look forward to more of you work, either here or in book form.

I'm sorry that it seems some people here want to find the negative in things like this and put their accusations into a post before they do their homework or use their brain.

ResplendentYeti wrote January 30:
<<<"I have accumulated quite a collection of stories/encounters over the years, and have recently decided to pull them all together into a manuscript. This incident has made me re-think the act of blithely posting my intellectual property on a public forum with no protections. I was recently sent a PM from a man who claims he works for an unnamed film producer who was pitched the idea for a movie that is shockingly similar to the story I posted here. If this is true, and the Cowman of Copalis Beach is made into a short film, or elaborated on and made into a feature length production, I will have no legal recourse for the theft of my work. I have recently filed the required forms with the Library of Congress to copyright this story, and will do so with all future work I may post here or elsewhere. I don’t mean to come off as bitter or angry, but when I am accused of plagiarizing my own work, and then told that several other people wish to take credit for it and possibly profit from it, I must take some action to protect it.>>>"

--------
ResplendentYeti's post brings these thoughts to mind….

You are indeed not only a talented writer but a wise man.

Recently I learned that British author's Janet and Colin Bord updated their out of date, but very successful "Bigfoot Casebook," which is due out in March 2006 published in Washington State.

For those of you who don't have the book, it's a compilation of sightings and encounters in a state by state looksee format that was very popular when the Internet was a new baby and we in research were banging around searching for published works in dank and dirty newspaper dungeons; spending hours in libraries on microfiche machines...to garner information to upload on websites. A large percentage of the data
in the Bord’s Casebook was John Green's work. The Bord’s are perhaps interested in sasquatches but are not researchers per se.

Someone recently sent me a note saying that the sightings databases on the internet was the only way the Bord's could do any updating, since they are not legit researchers, part of the BF community nor do they maintain an online database of hominoid sightings in the USA, Canada or the UK. So…I wondered where there were getting their updated material from and wrote their publisher.

Both Roger Thomas on his UK "Bigfoot Fact or Fantasy" website and I have (or rather "had" in my case) the Bord's Casebook uploaded in total. Janet didn't seem to have a problem with that after some brief correspondence years ago, mainly because the book was out of print. But this weekend, Janet’s publisher in Washington requested I take down the Bord's page since the book is due out next month.

And this is after I had given years of FREE publicity to the Bord's books and listed them in more than 100 places on Bigfoot Encounters promoting their work as a way to show appreciation for the use of their Casebook.

This weekend I took down the Bord’s Casebook and every single page promoting their book/s. …too bad, their work has been heavily hit even though it is tedious reading and in abridged form, very uninteresting.
I will not promote the NEW book if it contains the hard work of websites (plural) that upload free as I do and profit nothing from the work we do.

There is something wrong with working your ass off to keep current on bigfoot sightings and encounters for ten long years, uploading it free as a gift to research and interested readers, then having some clown with no background in blood-spent field work come along and use my hard work (and yours) to profit by....

What's wrong with this picture? It's my understanding database websites are considered "public domain." Data websites are the playground for Fortean authors and journalists to gather their information.

They no longer have to break a sweat to get their information, they just sit behind their computers all day paraphrasing the hard work of others on the Internet, then copyrighting it in their names and taking credit for this NEW information. They wouldn't do it if they weren't getting paid to publish, and it wouldn't be published if we stopped buying their work.

What you read in these newest books coming out is the expensive work of website owners like me who profit absolutely nothing. The authors and the publishers stand to gain monetarily. Where is the justice in that?

As if the Bord's updated sightings book wasn't enough news for one day, I received this from Chris Murphy up in B.C.:

Christopher Murphy writes on Jan 27:

".....wait until you see the "SASQUATCH CHRONICLE." I am including every story from every source I can find and the book will likely top 1000 pages, full size and in color. I am not worried about what has been written. Stories up to 1923 will be pretty well as in the original article. After that I am doing re-writes. As you know (I hope), after 1923 copyrights are in effect for original material."
- ---

The moral of the story is, if you have a website and it isn't copyrighted or contain copyrighted material, it'll be in Murphy's book and he will stand to gain financially off your work, (your interviews, your hours of hard work in libraries and newspaper microfiche dungeons, your years of computer upgrades, and in my case field work and hours on the freeways etc) paraphrase it, copyright it in his name and I will be left in the cold for all the years of work it took to gather the information Murphy and the Bord's are receiving
and gaining financially from....

I'm not sure copyrighting material even covers it; it's my understanding that anyone has the right to paraphrase any written work, copyrighted or not and call it their own work, publish it, take credit for it and profit by it.

I strongly object to the paraphrasing of sasquatch research, it leaves the door open for embellishments, exaggeration and misinformation...certainly there is enough of that already published...

The whole scenario is an eye-opener when I think of the years of hard work I and others have put in, offering bigfoot information FREE, then see my work padding the pockets of other so-called researchers like Murphy and the Bords.

As much as I would love to read RespendentYeti's Elma, WA story, I would caution him, especially if he plans to publish new material. Once it's on the Internet, there seems to be no honor left when it comes to authors using website material.

I would be interested in knowing if there is someone reading this who is up on Canadian and UK copyright laws verses USA publishing laws.

Whatever RespendentYeti decides to do with his material, he has talent and I would hope he publishes his work one day. I wish him and other like him well…

Now, …if someone will just kick the soap box out from under me…..ha, I’m be on my merry way.

Bobbie Short

Being to busy for my own good I finally found the time to figure out what caused this misunderstanding. It was a mistaken assumption on my part (go figure) that the original post of the story was made just recently, when after going back and looking closer at the date I saw that it was actually an old post that was being continued. I do apologize for my assumption. From now on I will make sure to pay closer attention before opening my big mouth....

Yeah I read the story from start to finish and was a entertaining read. Along with some of the comments. It seemed almost too good to be true, meaning the sasquatch's forthcoming and overtly curious behavior. Considering they are normally very elusive and timide. Nonetheless I tend to believe this story happened, some of the details like I said are very interesting.

I for one say post away.
To me such tales are - at worst - identical to Theodore Roosevelt's Bauman tale. I may not really believe it... but it is a good story that COULD be true. All I would ask is that if portions of a tale have been "altered for dramatic presentation" that that be acknowledged up front so you know what you are reading has been deliberatedly altered from the "real events".

Nice to see you around RY. Good luck with the legalities. Lookin' forward to the Elma story!

Curt

Geez, that really sucks. And there's no legal recourse for you to take?

How about doing your own book, so you can make some money off all your hard work?

-Ray

Well, yes, welcome back! - everytime I see "Cowman" discussed I'm drawn in. I joined the BFF in July '04 very shortly after your story debuted and immediately cut & pasted it to save. It blew my socks off! Whenever I need an escape I enjoy reading the story, if even in snippets. I can't wait to read it someday to my kids.

I'm a Bigfoot Believer...the story is incredibly awesome to me, even if parts have been embellished. Heck, even if the whole darn thing is a figment of someone's imagination, it's GOOD!!

You are a gifted writer and I support & applaud your taking the steps neccessary to protect yourself to develop your writing further. Should I ever see this story printed and in hardback, I will feel honored to have been one of the very first to lay eyes on it!!

AND by all means, once you feel comfortable, please use us as your testing ground for your other pieces!!!

warmly, mari

I havn;t heard that book in years. That is the book that got me into this hobby. When I was int he 4th grade I would pour through the pages drawing my own maps, and skethces based off descriptions. The Book also contains the only documented sighting within a 30mile radiius of my home town. I really want the new version, but am highly dissapointed it contains unwelcomed material from another source I look to often...your site.

That was a great story man, I loved scared me half to death.

Bobbie (Sierra 4) Support you all the way. You're not the type to break noses. But I'm squarely with you in all you need to do.

I just had quick question was there a door on the side of the barn I'm just wondering how if there was this creature could slip silently out of there but yet not manage to get into rooms of the house were the doors were closed.

He said he walked around the pickup, and if it was that dark it is possible the creature could have went the other way...... or he tele....oh wait that's for another forum LOL

I know just how you feel! I was five and my brother was three when we first watched The Legend of Boggy Creek and I really believe it is the reason he slept with a nightlight until he was 13. Boggy Creek is also what got me interested in BF because my grandpa lived in Texarkana and can remember hearing the stories. The two couples that where "stalked" and the guy that got thrown off of the porch was the story that really got me.

:new_thumbsupsmileyanim: Susan thank you very much for bumping this up. All people ever hear is that Bigfoot is a gentle giant that eats berries. Whatever! There are people like the people in RY's story that would highly dissagree!

Hey RY, did you ever get started on that book?

This whole scenario infuriates me. :new_evil2: I gotta say it here. And believe me, I've noticed... not just on this thread, but others... and also some fawning new posters who sneak in & think people on this board are stupid, tell us how wonderful we are & how we can contribute to their research........get what they want, then high-tail it outta here, never to be heard from again. Oh boy, wasn't their presence a blessing??? :new_evil2: Well, duh, ain't we just clueless dumb sh**s, and don't know any better.

This has really hit a sore spot with me for a while now. It did months ago. It probably will again sometime soon. But it really pi$$** me off. And I own those feelings. There's no "I'm sorry buts"... :new_evil2:

That's how I feel about that.

Littlefoot who are you talking about?

Yeah, YEAH! What the hell is wrong with these people!?!? :new_evil2: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS EITHER!!! DAMN THEM! :new_evil2:



......wait a minute, what are we so pissed off about?

Someone noted this early in the thread, so not an original thought but... as odd as it may sound, I do wonder if the BF thought, just MAYBE, that the boy was ALSO being chased/threatened by the Dad (when the BF breaks from the cover of the woods and runs towards the fleeing boy). If it meant to do him harm, it would seem to have had ample opportunity. Granted, it did seem to knock him flying.

Great yarn, whether you view it as a "tall tale" or the real deal. I am reminded of a BF "documentary" I saw years ago, in the theater, which featured (in re-enactment!) a BF looming in the doorway when a homeowner suddenly yanked the front door open (believe the BF also crashed its arm through a window, scaring the @#$#@$ out of those of us watching in the darkened theater).

Shadow

What movie was that from??? That scene was the one that gave me the fear-of-the-woods-at-night that I had all through childhood, and led to my interest in bigfoot as an adult.

Truth seeker & Vol,

We aren't pissed off. I am. It appears Bobbie Short isn't exactly a happy camper, either (no connection to the Happy Camp we love to hate...), and I don't blame her.

I find it offensive when someone who wants to write a book is too lazy (or "too busy" or "has a deadline to meet") to do their own legwork to get the info they need. And just to fill their precious pages! I figure if they're going to make the money, they should earn it. In August & September on the forum there was an example of this very thing.

I was just wondering what was going and wanted to make sure you weren't pi$$ at me for some reason though I do have to admit I'm no bigfoot researcher more of an enuathiest at this point in my life I don't have the money and equipment to do any serious hunting of my own.

Those scenes would either be from "Legend of Boggy Creek", or perhaps "Sasquatch: The Legend of Bigfoot". Both movies had those two scenes: LoBC dealt with incidents regarding the Fouke Monster, of course, and S:TLoB had those scenes as part of the Beck/Ape Canyon story.

I wonder if it would be possible for all of us as a group to email this comapny or write letters of our dissatisfaction (is that a word?) and maybe get the printing of this book either stoped or make sure Bobby gets the credit deserved??? Would it be a waste of time?

Aaaahhhh......

I gotcha ya now.

Exactly what is it that Bobbie needs credit for? Letting someone else (Roger Thomas) scan the pages of a book/journal into her website for her and displaying it for others free of charge? A book that she had permission to post, mind you? By Bobbie's own admission, she's uploading other's works to her website.



I'd say give the credit to John Green. He seems to be the original compiler of that body of work. The others (the Bords and Bobbie included) are only re-producing it again.


(bold emphasis mine)

It was just a suggestion, not trying to ruffle anyones feathers.

Note: See sierra4's post made on January 30, 2006 @ 2:23pm in this thread.

It appears that I shouldn't have commented about Bobbie Short's dismay in the same post as my rant about authors who expect others to do their legwork for them. I do, however, agree with Bobbie entirely. If they expect to to profit from a book, then let them earn it! And its true, if we don't buy the book, they don't profit.

I was actually referring to another author & another upcoming book. This person breezed onto the board, plumbed it for what she could get, and was gone. Don't expect her back until she starts looking for material for her next book. She pretty well summed up her own attitude for all of us here in a post on September 25, 2005:



Dread, it was the publisher who requested that Bobbie remove the Bord material from her site.

Yeah littlefoot she did seem to pump you guys good for info. I was actually surprised people on the board went along with her as much as they did since her sites and bookd lumps all cryptos and paranormal events together. I would think that the people on this site since most seem convinced Bigfoot is just an ape wouldn't want to help with a book that at least lumps into the category of paranormal.

No feathers ruffled, don't worry. I just wanted to clarify a couple of things to those who may not know the truth. :wink:

truth seeker, What you said is interesting, because I wasn't thinking of it in those terms.



There's a wide range of people posting here. I can't even think how to categorize them, so I don't. Sometimes I don't even know how to categorize me! That sounds silly, but its true. However, sometimes when I read a post, I get a feeling in my gut. It's like a giant traffic light going from green to yellow to red. I felt it in the Linda G. posts, and I felt it in this one. I have no problem with "The Cowman of Copalis Beach!" story. Great story, really good storyteller, and I hope he writes more! Bobbie Short is, to me, a pillar of the bigfoot community. I've gotten her newsletters for years. She's substantial. She's there. I can't describe her, just really respect her in this field. Informative, reliable, impartial, consistent... She's just there, and always is.

I like people to treat people like people, and with respect. I don't like it when people use other people for whatever reason. Thus, the reason for my anger & my rant. The thing that bothers me was the lady's apparent attitude that she could come in to this forum, dazzle & flatter us, get what she wanted for her book, then disappear. It just didn't seem right to me. And it seems to fit in with this current post because the topic is all about information available on the web, and all about how you get that information, what your intentions are, and how you use what you get. And copyrighting things.

I have a problem with copyrighting. Who owns it anyway? Maybe this post is helping to clarify this in my own mind. Maybe this is a personal issue that I shouldn't even bring up in the forum. It bothers me. Sooooo, what does that actually mean? You see a bigfoot. You report it to a website. Then what...? How does it protect you? How can that copyrighting thing hurt you? I'm talking about posting a regular bigfoot encounter reported to a group & then posted on the web. Since I'm just an ordinary noone, I've never had to consider this before. Am I the only one of us who has these questions? Is there anyway that "your story" can be manipulated into somwthing else, other than what it was as you presented it? Perhaps I'm just plain dumb, and should know these things, but I don't.

And since I'm bringing up my ignorance, why do websites copyright a sighting? Does that mean that if you want to retell your story, do you have to check in with them first?

So I'm laying me out on the line. That's me. That's how I think about people & things, including copyrights. Where am I thinking wrong? Or am I? I don't know, but I had to say it.

Ok cool :new_thumbsupsmileyanim:

Littlefoot you and I think a lot alike, LOL not sure if that is a good thing or not though :laugh: You mentioned about posting a sighting on a web site if they own it, that's a really good question too. I thought the very same thing about the BFRO and why we haven't seen pictures from the expeditions (I am not bashing the BFRO, or members from the BFRO) because I know a lot of people would like to see what they have.... guess I could put my money where my mouth is and sign up..... if you can do that??? But I think photos of evidence would help others for research in their areas that an expedition occured....

Back on topic, I think this story was awsome and I would really like to read more of them. Kind of reminded me of the Dean Koontz book Watchers, if you've read it you know what I mean.