Some of you have been very lucky in that you have been graced with a chance to observe the footprints left behind by our giant unknown primates. My question to you (I dont think we have commented on this yet although if wrong, please direct me to the thread ......) is this :

Some people have studied, photographed and observed apparent sasquatch footprints made in the snow, sand, mud or soil in various locations across the continent of North America. Here is a question that would cool to get imput on :\
"What is the longest distance you have seen or heard of between sasquatch tracks?
(Presumably when the individual was moving out at a run or bounding down a hill or jumping.) What distances can they cover when running? I have yet to see good tracks let alone a fresh trail. Comments appreciated.

I think, Streamrunner, I have heard of distances between steps at 5-6'. The Bluff Creek Sasquatch, might have been around 5 and a half feet (off the top of me head mind you). I wonder if someone e-mailed Jeff MEldrum if he wouldn't have some information on this.

Jon

A year or so ago, i had the chance to track a sassi on a friends farm in snow. Very interesting. The animal walked all thru the woods, up and down slopes, thru thickets, crossed a stream a couple times, and across an open field. Thats where his stride was really stretched out. Eight feet from heel of left foot to heel of left foot. In the thicket, his stride was much shorter, almost a meandering shuffle, less than five feet. I dont think he broke into a run at any point, just exploring part of his turf. Hope this helps ya Bro.

Robustes,

I have a question for you. What were the conditions like? Fresh tracks? Snow covered tracks? Old tracks?

This is a good question from Streamrunner. As you might have seen in my tracking thread, I use a "Tracking stick" to help locate the next track and wondered how long I should make one for tracking Bigfoot.

Cut4sign

This brings up a comment on "hoaxes" and Wallace etc.

Eight feet is a substantial distance to "step".

So, sone one like Wallace, or any other numb nut that decides to wander through the woods wearing shoes made out of ply wood would have to have incredible stamina to make a unified gate at a distance in which it would force the individual to take large exerted steps. As the trail grows longer, the hoaxed trail would become less uniform, shorter, and sloppier in nature as fatigue sets in.

Jon

Just to clarify so things do not get confused. Rob correctly used the term stride for the 8 foot measurement which is the distance between the heel prints of the same foot. A step is half of a stride.

Nice start. Terms, definitions, applicable field techniques could all be assessed here as well. I have had some information given to me about distances over ten feet while running.... my interests include rooting out as much information as people are willing to share and show that what we are studying is able to do things beyond human abilities. My guess is quite easily. As Jon said, a trackmaker faking tracks would have quite a time in rough terrain and this has been pointed out numerous times by people who have been in the "thick of it" for quite some time. Back to the subject though, what kind of distances would you expect and what kind of extremes do you know of? From reports preferably documented or personal observation. Another goal is to pick up direct information from those who have had some of the experiences I am hoping for. Thanks for the contributions and comments.

I have never measured distances between any prints that I have seen. I have only seen some "sure-fired" ones twice {that I can safely say). That was when I was searching for personal reassurance and before I was interested in proving it to others. Looking back, I can guestimate that the distance between tracks was 4 ft. in a leisurely walk and up to 5 ft. The 5ft. ones crossing an open area.

As for the quote above....I will point out one thing that Robs observations tells me. Not that I think others wont catch it. I just think that it deserves notice from all serious BF researchers....Anyway, it seems to me that the BF increased its speed when crossing open spaces. A good indicator that it was very uncomfortable being out in the open. It would be nice to know from Rob if these open fields were in view of human habitations. You could better judge the degree of worry that the BF had by the area. There is a big difference between an open field, close to human populations and an open field that is secluded and out in the middle of nowhere.

Actually Angie, i noticed that there were NO human habitats in direct view of ANY of the trackway. It just seemed (like humans) that where its open, your stride stretchs out. That field was behind a slope, a several hundred yards from any house.

Jon, it took myself and another researcher all afternoon to follow these tracks, miles of them. I cannot even think of someone trying to hoax it. The trail started down by Muddy Creek, went thru a swampy low part, them up and zig zagged up a ravine, then turned and went back thru thickets, back down to the marsh, then went back up a steep thick slope, out into the field towards another creek. Being as a property boundry of a rather nasty person was approaching, we returned to our camp. It winded both of us walking up and down the slopes , let alone slogging thru the snow. Someone with fake feet would have to go thru an awful lot of trouble, time and effort ot create that trail.

What thread was it i posted a pic of part of those tracks ?> i cant find it. Peanuts farm.

I measured some that were crossing an open area headed towards a kennel with puppies in it. The area containing the tracks was visible from two houses. There were 7 or 8 fairly clear tracks in a straight line, east to west, that measured 58 to 62" from heel to heel. Then something must have startled it, because the tracks turned abruptly to the north-northwest, down a hill, away from the houses, (5 or 6 tracks easily visible going in that direction) and the steps increased to 83 to 88".

Doctor Fahrenbach's paper on the BFRO site, entitled
"SASQUATCH: SIZE, SCALING, AND STATISTICs,"
covers his records on this topic.
Scroll down or search for the word 'gait' to get there.
Here's the link:
http://www.bfro.net/REF/THEORIES/WHF/FahrenbachArticle.htm
(Everyone should read this at some point, if you haven't. It's a good resource.)
The simplified overview is here:
http://www.bfro.net/REF/THEORIES/WHF/sasq_traits.htm

If I read it right, he says average step length (not stride) is 5 feet. Try to duplicate that. I can't do it without hopping, and I'm 6'2".
On his chart, the highest data point is at 18 feet. For one step. That's crazy.
(Also, he mentions a 70-inch stride for Patty... Someone call Heironimus.)

Thanks for the info Rob. FWIW, I'll tell you my exact mind workings when I think of your observations. I guess that my personal observations and beliefs may play a roll in my thoughts. I feel that an eight ft. stride is a hurried pace for a BF. The 5 ft. ones that I saw were in an open area but it was in a less populated area. I can gather that it was in a hurry but not, seemingly, as much a hurry as the tracks that you describe. I'll also add that some of the prints that I saw also were as far apart as 3 ft. It depended on the terrain, including the foliage. I also saw tracks that indicated that the BF had switched to all fours on up-hill terrain and in areas that there were low-hanging branches (telling me they willl rather walk through than around obstacles, like my husband ).

Also, I was thinking about it and although I didnt see the tracks I'd like to add this.

The BF that I saw, I would estimate the last step I saw him take was probably all of 6 ft. It was truely something that I cannont see a human replicate. Not even a 7 ft. tall one because of the fluidity in its movement. The head did not dip down like I can imagine a human doing when they would have to stretch out their legs to do. From what I saw, the head stayed level and did it did not take the BF any effort at all to take such a big step.

Thanks for that! Its interesting about the tracks in the open vs those seen in and around cover. If they get ten feet in height... at high speed down hill.... makes me wonder what the extreme possibilities are.

An interesting and useful thread. I'm afraid I can't buy an 18 foot step though, unless and until I see the maker pacing it off.

-Vern

I agree Vern! 18 ft. is quite a stretch. BUT.... ...Personally I could see 18 ft. being possible if it was running, leaping bounds. I think of the specimen that I saw and then I can try to picture it making an 18 ft. print. As unbelievable as it may sound, I do see it as a possible. BUT...The only scenario I could see it happening is if the BF was at a running speed and then leaped and landed 18 ft. away. Incredible, I know. Just offering up my personal opinion.

On Fahrenbach's chart, the 18-foot mark was well outside the range of the rest of the data points. So this is clearly nowhere near common, and I would guess a number like that would only be made by a subject leaping for some reason, perhaps over an obstacle. I don't think it would be a sustainable stride.

I thought that number seemed a bit insane, too, so after I posted that I looked up some numbers from the International Olympic Committee. The world record mark for the triple jump is 18.09 meters. That works out to a little over 59 feet. Divide that by three, and you get close to 20 feet per leap.
Most triple-jumpers are planting only one foot per jump, so they are essentially taking very long steps. Hypothetically, then, you could find the footprints of an olympic triple-jumper and say that humans can take 20-foot-long steps. It is possible, but it's very much an anomaly. I'm guessing the same is true for the squatch.

Using the triple jump as a comparison benchmark is very misleading. Running down a runway, then doing a hop, a skip, and a jump is nowhere similiar to anything any human (or known primate that I know) does in real life.

The other explanation is that it is just a bad data point. Extreme outliers in any data base need to be examined with caution. Remember your chemistry or physics labs? That data point that was way off the line of best fit on your graph wasn't way out there because the laws of chemistry or physics had suddenly changed.

Let's do some trig to put this 18 foot figure in perspective. A pair of stiff kneed legs six feet long swung out to an included angle of ninety degrees will generate a step length of about 8 feet 5 inches. And I don't see this as an animal with startling leaping ability. There is just too much body mass involved.

Of course, I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again before I pack it in...

-Vern

NOW its getting interesting. This is what I was hoping for. Recall my request
is for track information but particularly the upper extremes of the distances between the tracks. Consider some of the situations we are dealing with, the relative rarity of tracks to begin with and then the size of the subject matter. Also if there is an extreme long jump distance for sapiens at 20 feet (approx) then that brings the 18 foot extreme by Dr. Henner Fahrenbach as more believeable (not a verification of course) and since the tracks are so rare in the first place you wonder what will show up in the future along these lines. Add the gradient factor such as running down hill at high speeds.
I also will try to find some significant interviews regarding tracks observed from the literature or outstanding reports that suggest to me at least, that whatever we are dealing with has not only apelike features and behaviors, as Dr. John
Bindernagel has pointed out but perhaps some pongidlike mobility and obvious power.

This is a great thread - one of the best I have read so far...

Now, this is far from my area of expertise, but I do have a thought or two on feasibility of an 18 ft. stride.

I believe that the world record for the long jump is almost 30 ft - in high school, I could long-jump 21 ft., and I was only an average jumper. (And I think the triple-jump analogy is pretty good too.)

With that in mind, I also remember a comment by Jane Goodall that said Chimps could lift 1,000 lbs with one arm when angered. Dr. Bindernagel also comments on the super-human strength of gorillas and chimpanzees in his book, saying that the sasquatch almost certainly shares this characteristic. After all, Chimps are only 4 ft tall and are not at all as heavily muscled as Sasquatches are reported to be. Certainly a Sasquatch's strength far exceeds that of a chimpanzee.

Even given the huge body mass of a Sasquatch, an 18 ft stride doesn't seem impossible at all. What if the animal was suddenly startled and started to sprint across a field - especially if the animal was a young strong male in his prime. If a 6 ft. human can long jump 30 ft. certainly a 10 ft Sasquatch, with the strength of 10 humans (conservative estimate, IMO) could sprint across a field leaving an 18 ft. stride.

I am not endorsing the authenticity of the measurements, only commenting that they are arguably within the physical capabilities of a BF. It would be interesting to know how deep the prints were, where they were found, etc.

Of-course, like Vern said, there is really no way to know unless we actually see the animal make the prints...

IMHO

I recall a report from Ohio (?) in which the witness surprised a sassi, and upon seeing the witness, the sassi turned and did a standing vertical jump up a bluff face approx 18 - 20 feet in heigth, landing on the top with his feet, never grasping anything with his hands for leverage, then turned, looked down at the human with a "disgusted grin" on his face, then casually ambled away into the woods.

Lesson from this and Councelors message boys and girls : Dont piss off a sasquatch, they can beat you up if they really want to and not break sweat.

Here is one of my favorite descriptions of apparent sasquatch tracks from an account given by John Green in his book SASQUATCH the apes among us :
Taken from page 357 Mr. Green writes about an observation sent in a letter in l969.
This note was sent by Mr. Jim Atwell from Skamania and described a set of tracks he saw near Port Townsend in the late l920's near an exposed water main. For those unfamiliar with this report, here it is in its entirety:

"These tracks came out of a heavy stand of timber and downfall near where the trail was, never once using the trail. I inspected the tracks on the waterline and they appeared to be made by a barefoot man. I did not measure the tracks but by memory would guess that they would have been made from a large man about a 10 or ll. I had never heard of the abombinable snowman at that time so just guessed it was some nut of a mountain man that one might find about Quilcine. This barefoot track walked down the pipe about l00 yards and on leaving the pipe he or she jumped about six feet across the ditch and landed on a 12-inch log covered with snow, something no logger could have done with caulked shoes, and then headed up the mountain through the roughest kind of going .....downfalls, brush and rocks covered with snow.
The tracks were not too wide apart as I walked down the pipe between them except when it left the line over onto the log. This was a far greater step or jump then I could make, it left the pipeline across the ditch of about six feet and landed on the small log two feet higher than the pipe and did not mess up the snow but landed neatly. This impressed me more at the time than the barefoot tracks did. He or she did have powerful muscles."

Mr. Green writes to further state that the individual was in the area overlooking the town when the snow fell and instead of going down the mountain toward the beach it went up it.

Other reports regarding extreme movement descriptions could also be added to this thread for reference. Got any?

(*Rob, while I would concede that SOME sasquatch might be able to high jump (vertically) likely higher than most of us would expect, that seems difficult to handle.... pushing 20 feet up. Can you point out that report sometime? Anyone (Sosha comes to mind) familiar with the upper level of cat leaping ability? A cougar and leopard can do some amazing things at body weights of 150 and 200 pounds.....)

SR, heres that pic i posted, remember it ?

peanuts farm

I have a couple more dramatic ones, need to scan them and put them on a disc so i can post em for ya.

Notice, the suspected sasquatch tracks have little or no saddle width (distance between left and right foot print, indication of width of hips) as is typical of other suspected sasquatch tracks.

uhm .. i cant recall where, but i remember reading it on the web SR.

Was it not you yourself, who told me one time, long ago, that these animals were capable of tremendous feats of athletisism ? Things that would blow our mind ?
OK, perhaps the witness exaggerated the height of the bluff, perhaps not. I didnt measure it

But think for a sec (or not) if an ape is approx 10x the physical strength of a human, and if we hypothesis that a sasquatch is likely to be the same, would it not stand to reason that they "may" be capable of doing a standing jump to twice their height ? Muscle structure and ligiment attachment and all that leverage hooie ...
Imagine what a standing broad jump may measure

Kinda leaning toward SR's thinking on this one.
Even postulating a very large increase in raw strength, you also need a body physicaly designed to perform the task at hand.
This is still a creature built upon a bipedal human/primate type body..and as such, I just don't think it would be "made" to jump 20 feet up..
It may be strong enough to toss a half ton boulder, or, tip over a car or rip small trees from the ground..but strengh and jumping ability don't always go hand in hand..if so, power lifters would be able to jump 10 feet or more..but they cant, as they are not built for that sort of thing.
If we look at the patterson creature as being somewhat "typical" for the species(s), then you see an immensily strong animal..but one build not so much for speed or agility, as for durability.
JMHO, as always.

Here are some tracks I found with Theo Stein in tow. It was on a dirt road mountain pass. Tracks going down hill and well, you can see them

Wow, are my tired eyes simply making assumptions ? or is the 75 inch hash mark only for the left foot track ? Are the right tracks in the snowless vehicle track ? Do all the green hash marks represent a 75 inch increment? Just tell me to shut up Rick

At some point, we need to stop thinking of thier physical attributes in human terms. We need to look at them in their terms. We just dont know their physical makeup We can only go by what is observed in track records or by eyewitness accountings. So far, everything reported points to an animal capable of extraordinary feats of brute strength, tremendous speed in a bipedal fashion, the ability to locomote in bipedal and quadrapedal motions with ease (NO other animal on the planet has yet to achieve this), the ability to solve problems (albeit minor), manipulate small objects without damage, the list goes on.

It "may" be possible for them to do a 20 foot standing jump. It may not be. I dont know, simply releying a report i read on the web (arent they ALL investigated by competent people before posting ? )

on morman grade I had tracks step to step 80 inches apart.

See my post on my "Who's a tracker" thread to see my new "Bigfoot tracking stick" Bigfoot tracking stick

Here is the other post about how the tracking stick helps to find the next print. This thread made me go back to the drawing board and design one for Patty

Cut4sign

Well, let's see, a vertical leap of 18 feet would require a push off velocity of about 34 feet per second. For a five hundred pound squatch that would translate to around 8975 foot-pounds of kinetic energy. Hell, if they can do this, it is worth the cost to the government to hunt them down and use them as a new orbital payload delivery system.

-Vern

Thanks for the imput. Rob, yep, I probably did suggest that some of 'em may have that ability. I sure don't know. I doubt a mature ten footer could do it but maybe some of those gangly sinewy lighter built seven footers could do a 14 foot My thoughts were based on the strength differences between people and apes in general. What the measurements are and calculations best left to others.
If sapiens can do a six foot high jump (I think the record is a tad over seven), (??) Would a being with double the strength of that sapiens high jumper translate into a 14 foot jump? (I spect it would have to be a being with the same body weight which wouldn't be the case with a sas according to the data we have). If they were three times as strong or four times as strong ....... you can see where this leads. Maybe they are, especially if their power is of full great ape level. If squatch muscleage lies between us and great apes somewhere in function, then that lessens the idea but to what degree ???

Also consider the variety of strengths exhibited by sapiens.. I would expect squatch are as variable.................. especially when considering age, sex, and size. Extreme differences may not be as pronounced as us since there are so many less of them than us. Environment may well figure here too.. (what a concept flatlanders and mountain dwellers ?
Recall my request in this thread is looking for extremes of atypical measurements of distances moved by sasquatches. Literature, communications, reports, any sources but obviously with some degree of verification and documentation, not an easy feat.

I look forward to the great things coming to us from those in the know. Thanks Rick, for that image made when Theo came out.

Man, I don't know what I said that slowed this one down, but it would be great to turn it into a annecdotal place for tracks, tracking, comments, techniques, or anything else that is helpful that YOU guys like. If a subject gets too refined it seems if there is little information available on it the thread dries up.
Here's a question... why do you think there are so few sasquatch tracks available to us in the first place? Another question might be, have you seen repeat tracks in different years at the same location or one that is very close to the original?
I have a question about different shapes of tracks... there has been some reference (I believe by Dr. John Napier) regarding the differences of some of the California tracks and the ones out of Washington or farther north. One seems more human like and the 'California ones appear more hourglass shaped. Any comments on that one?

If I recall, Napier thought the differences between the two types of tracks were so pronounced that one had to be fake. He wasn't about to accept two different undiscovered primates as a possibility.

I know next to nothing about what range of variability could be expected in tracks, human or sasquatch.

Just off the top of my head, which if a lot of open range, maybe because of the relatively small breeding population in any given area, a genetic trait, such as foot shape, would be more regionally prevalent.

Yeah thats what I remember Jud.
Yeah thats a good point too Colorofthenightwolf Ya figure lots of critters and even the nationalities of people take on characteristics from certain locations. Why couldn't it be the same with our big buddies?
Why cant I get my pm box opened up? Public computer right now. And its a HEckuva lot better than mine. (Thought I'd take a break & mess here for a tad.)

Streamrunner,

If I read the original post right, the sassi did a vertical jump of 18 - 20 ft and landed on its feet. That wasn't like a high jump in track where you roll or flop over the bar and land on a mat.

If I recall correctly the worrld record for a standing vertical jump measured from the floor to soles of the feet/shoe was just a little over 3 ft. It was set by a volleyball player, not Michael Jordan.

Small animals can achieve high ratio weight to strength physical feats that can't be matched by larger animals.

If a human can only manage about 3 ft. I don't see a 300 - whatever pound bipedal animal reaching 18 ft unless they are built more like a kangaroo than a homonid.

Very good point O. I was just thinking about that the other day... for a lot of pro athletes you are looking at maybe a 30-34 in vert jump (wide outs, running backs in the NFL) The questions for me are how much stronger are the big guys than us?
If they got 6 times the strength of a man would a 400 pound squatch power output in a jump be something along these lines ?
200 pound man standing vertical jump 3 feet (top of the line rare exceptional athlete)
400 pound sas does six feet. How many more times is the sas stronger than the man there? allow for the double weight mass as well. If it was 200 pounds it would be twice as strong If it was 400 pounds would it be four times as strong?
What if it is 8 times as strong? I sure don't know. There's just a lot of reports where they do cool stuff that shows strength and speed. And its intriguing to think of how powerful apes are. How that would transform into a human like body with long mobile legs is interesting. Also interesting that some reports describe kangaroo like movement (jumps)... the future oughta be interesting as we learn more..

Sasquatch, the Original Incredible Hulk!!!!!!!

Man, you need a mathematician to work all that out!

Oh Vern

Excellent point Rob

In my opinion, all of the laws of potential strength and physical ability related to humans, should be thrown out when applying them to Sas.



Good point as well, I competed in both the long and triple-jump in high school. I was able to get a 22 1/2 ft long jump and 46 ft triple-jump back then at a weight of around 175lbs. Our best guy in my school put up 25 ft long jump, 49 ft triple jump. He weighed in at around 210 lbs (starting RB).



Nature’s crazy sometimes… A Tiger weighing in at close to 800 lbs can vertically leap between 12 to 15 ft high, according to “Most Extreme Animals” on the Animal Planet TV network. This being nearly 2 to 300 lbs heavier then a good deal of the estimated weights given to the Sas’s closer to 7 ft. Factor in the different muscle distribution & leg design between the two animals, and darn near anything is possible either way imo. BTW, the world's greatest leaper in distance...the flea. To match it, we'd have to jump nearly 3 football fields in a single bound. As I said earlier, nature is crazy.



Why you gotta pick on Jordan? You must be a Duke fan… (just kiddin’!)

This is really an excellent thread btw.

Good points, all, on the potential jumping ability.
My gut says they can probably jump pretty well, but a 15-foot vertical is probably an exaggeration. A single story doesn't carry quite the same weight as all the track evidence.

But I might be wrong. (This is very likely, in fact. )

As far as proportional strength goes, how much stronger is an elephant compared to a human? But elephants can't jump at all.
So, who knows..

This is a very Hulk-like picture, isn't it, ouachita?
For what it's worth, I hope they can jump like this. It would be too cool.
Imagine yourself out hunting with a buddy, and a squatch comes dropping from the sky and squishes your buddy, then turns to you, flexes his muscles, and growls. "SQUATCH ANGRY!!"
(And he's wearing shredded purple pants, of course.)

Damn, Tam - That's a scary thought!! 800 pound squaches falling from the sky!!