http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114606,00.html


Dallas Cops Shoot, Kill Escaped Gorilla

Thursday, March 18, 2004

DALLAS — Police shot and killed a gorilla (search) that escaped from its enclosure at the Dallas Zoo (search) on Thursday and injured three people.



One adult and two children, ages 10 and 2, suffered minor injuries from the gorilla and were taken to area hospitals, Deputy Police Chief Daniel Garcia said. He said the three were bitten and scratched.

The animal escaped about 5 p.m., the zoo was evacuated and police were notified. When the animal charged two of the department's tactical officers, getting within 15 feet of them, the officers opened fire, Garcia said.

"We were forced to put this animal down," he said.

Garcia said police officers' objective was protecting citizens until authorities could figure out what to do with the gorilla.

"I'm sure that there's a lot of people out here that were very shook up by the fact that you had a huge gorilla running through the premises like that," Garcia said.

Diana Gonzalez, a zoo patron, said she saw the animal banging on the door of its enclosure, and then it broke. The gorilla then scampered out of the gorilla pit.

Dallas zoo director Rich Buickerood said the primate was an inquisitive 13-year-old Western Lowland gorilla (search). He said the animal was likely "extremely excited and extremely fearful while it was out."

He said zoo officials are trying to figure out how the escape happened.

I guess that's the PR/PC way of saying "We were forced to blow the defenseless bastard away because 3 of my officers had sh*t their pants and we don't have any money in the budget for extra cleaning bills."

Don't get me started on the 'ways and means' of law enforcement in this country.

"Harry"

Well, doesn't that just piss ya right off!

Sounds like what can be expected anymore, I'm not anti law enforcement at all, I very much appreciate the job they do, but that's the way it is. But we have had more than our share of corrupt officers in this small city.
That said, kudos to officers like those few in detroit who had restraint in shooting sosha's cougar sosha.
Some friends in new mexico who have a turkish okbosh dog, looks like a white saint bernard, somewhat more formidable though. It's a working herding breed, anyhow they told me they were very careful there with him because the common rule is to shoot bigger dogs who are running around rather than taking them to a humane society type of place.
Not to make it "another" animal rights topic, but as the dominant species you'd think people would be able to solve more problems without the simple "da...let's kill it mentality" all the time.
That said, of course I don't know the details in this case, maybe it was a real danger to people, maybe it wasn't.

Whatever happened to tranquilizer darts?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I dont want to offend anyone here, but just what did you expect the officers to do? They were being charged by a 300+lb gorilla. It's easy for someone to sit at home and question what a police officer does in the line of duty. It's another thing to actually have to go out and put your life on the line for people who do not appreciate it.

Very tragic for all involved!

Like I mentioned, don't get me started. I promise not to 'discuss' my 'unappreciative' point of view in this thread or forum. BUT...What COULD they have done instead? Oh probably 15 OTHER things than the one they did. A SIMPLE one would be to let the people who are FAMILIAR with 'the enemy' handle it i.e. zoo keepers, handlers, game wardens etc. Unless said gorilla was 'raping and pillaging' the surrounding city, 'holding off' firing' a deadly bullet would PROBABLY work out in the end since it was in fact a wild animal NOT KNOWN for UNPROVOKED ATTACKS on humans AND not hellbent on 'self destruction' like so many of the usual 'drunk crazy sorts' out on the streets. As mentioned above, what happened to tranquilizer darts? These are an ENDANGERED species, not one where killing even just ONE of them has no effect. For the record, I'm NOT an 'animal lover' in the same sense many here are but I do have an appreciation for them and besides, PANICKED STUPIDITY never sits well with me, especially from cops who are paid a salary NOT to panic. Regardless, I'm sure there's plenty of blame to 'go around', from the zoo itself to the 'lowly minimum wage worker' (and you can bet your paycheck that's who will get blamed for it... ) who left the door open, so the 'TRIGGER HAPPY' cops are just a piece, not the whole, of the 'puzzle'.

"Harry"

To clarify: The above comment was directed at the fact that it happened at all, not at the cops for doing their jobs.

Well, while I am certainly supportive of efforts to preserve all manner of wildlife, Im also in the field of law enforcement so I know that a large, unpredictable animal that had already hurt 3 people people was probably not going to be just darted and brought back to the zoo.

While it is certainly true that gorillas have given man very little reason to fear it, when its terrified and feeling threatened, I wouldnt want to be near it nor would I want it roaming around until someone managed to get it under control. Blaming the cops in a bad situation is the easiest route, but oftentimes that blame is misplaced. The city of Dallas, most likely, does not have the resources, knowledege or ability to just whip out a dart gun and save the day.

I find it hard to believe that DPD did not exhaust the option of bringing it back alive via the zoo and their handlers. No officer wants to kill an animal that they dont have to, let alone something like a gorilla that is endangered. But, lets remember, this is a gorilla we are dealing with, not a ferret or wild bird.

If it had not already hurt 3 people (2 of them little kids), chances are that there would have been a much more satisfactory resolution to the problem, but how many more people would have had to be hurt before someone made the decision to bring the animal down?

Its extremely easy to sit back and monday morning quarterback not only a situation you have never likely faced, but also a profession that demands split second decision making where the outcome of those decisions can be gone over with a fine tooth comb for years to come.

Im not flaming you Harry, but I hope that I have explained a bit as to why I feel your frustration is misplaced.

I'm sure you guys who say they shouldn't have put the animal down would be singing a different tune if it was you who got attacked....

See Video of inteview with attacked woman whose son was bitten in the head and side and thrown against a wall. Today Show 3/19/04: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4558461/ The gorrilla had the boys head in its mouth says the mother. The officers shot the ape as the boy was being loaded into the ambulance. Cops possibly knew what the animal had already done. What were they supposed to do when it charged, invite it to tea?

Here's a link to a thread from Nov. subtitled "Gorilla escapes Boston zoo, injures two."

While I will be the first to admit the unpredictibility of wild animals, It would also seem to me, given the minor injuries involved, and given the strength of a gorilla,
I would have to conclude this gorilla was not out to seriously hurt or kill anyone!!
Of course I could be wrong, but it seems to me if this gorilla wanted to do serious harm, it is more than capable of killing or maiming with one blow!! Especially a 2 year old and a ten year old child!! Please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying it is ok for the gorilla to attack people because it only did minor damage,What I am saying is the gorilla may have caused the injuries out of fear, or maybe these people were just too close.It just seems to me if this gorilla intended to kill or do serious harm to these people, they would not have got away with only minor injuries!! :rolleyes:

I put complete blaim for this tragedy on the zoo, not the police. If the zoo had better trained staff, better containment system for the animals and if the animals were being cared for in a proper way, this would not have happened. If this gorilla was shown to be aggressive or had attempted escape before, then the zoo is even more to blaim for not attending to those concerns properly.

I have seen so many stories of zoos in the past few years that lead me to believe there are some serious issues that need to be addressed. It seems that many zoos have strayed from the "save and study the animals" mode to "lets make a buck off a beast". I am not saying this about all zoos, some are doing a tremendous job of breeding and caring for endangered animals and bringing these concerns to the public. I wish all of them would do this.

I think it's a tragedy that this animal was killed and it could have been prevented.

Redwolf

Agreed Redwolf, Agreed!!

Now I'm wondering if this "Dallas Gorilla Caper" wasn't some big conspiracy by Greg Long and friends. Since he is now reported to be the world's leading 'animal emulator', maybe it was in fact Bob Heironimous inside a gorilla suit and this story was just part of a big ole cover-up by the Dallas P.D.? It would definitely work out to Greg Long's benefit if B.H. was suddenly 'gone from the equation'. I can just see Greg Long coaxing B.H. - "C'mon man, just put this suit on for a few minutes and run around raping and pillaging like you think an escaped gorilla would. Nothing is gonna happen, really. Please? Pretty please?"

At a press conference by Greg Long in the aftermath of the Dallas debacle:
"Such a good man. Such an honest man. We woulda had him re-create the Patty film, and we were so close too, but as luck...errrrr...I mean as misfortune would have it, he's dead now, ACCIDENTLY shot by the Dallas police department. My star witness struck down in the prime of his life. Oh well, such a tragedy. Soooooo...anyone up for a book signing?"

Harry,

It seemed like a rapidly escalating situation that could only end in a timely gun shot!
The gorilla did indeed break down the door to its living area. It did attack three people!
Its curiousity quickly changed to fright! And when an animal is frightened, who knows what the out come will be?
Hey! 'Ape's**t happens!
Do I feel sorry for the gorilla? Of course!
I also feel sorry for the cops who had to bring the beast down.
And I also feel sorry for the people who were attacked. It will not be a pleasant memory for any involved!

Red wolf, you hit it right. The gorilla was able to open it's own door, wether it broke or not is negligence on the side of the zoo. I love animals, but if a gorilla had my kid in it's mouth I'd shoot it without a second thought. You'd thnk the zoo would have tranguilizers on hand, before law enforcement even got there, but judging by everything else that happened I'd guess this zoo was ill equipped. I hope Sosha comments on this. But gorilla attacks have been documented before.

The blame of yesterday's tragedy belongs not only on Jabari, the lowland gorilla that was shot and killed, but upon the zoo, some zoo employees, and a group of observers. In my opinion, the zoo was negligent in having a door, or any kind of breechable boundary, that under any circumstance would allow intermingling of observers and animals. The door should have opened into an area only accessible by zoo employees. Zoo employees in the area when the attack took place, did not use "Pepper Spray" which they are all armed with, to stem the attack. According to the story at CNN.com, a group of empoyees with dart guns did try to subdue Jabari, but couldn't get a clear shot, which is why the police finally had to put him down. The largest part of the blame belongs on the group of observers that were TEASING Jabari before the incident occurred. This is what caused him to become incensed to the point where his intincts took over, and the path was set.

Jabari was a Western Lowland Gorilla, and they estimate the population in the wild of this species to be around 50,000. The Eastern Lowland Gorilla population is around 2,500 and the Mountain Gorilla population at around 700. So it could have been a much worse loss to the Gorilla Population as a whole.

In my opinion, the police department acted in an appropriate manner under the circumstances. Once Jabari crossed the line and injured a human, it was their duty to protect all humans from any further attacks or injuries. Since the zoo employees in the area didn't use their pepper spray, I can only assume they panicked, have been imporperly trained on it's usage, or simply just didn't have the intelligence to see and comprehend what was taking place. As far as the last line of defense, the zoo employees with the dart guns, I can't blame them due to the likelihood of the pandemonium that was likely taking place at that moment would make it hard to get a clear shot.

I love animals as much as anyone here, and more than most. However, the bottom line is that fellow humans were in danger, tragically because of the actions of some of our own kind, those that were teasing. It makes no difference if the attacker was Jabari the gorilla, a tiger, a lion, or a 300 pound human. The risk of injury and death was high and it is our moral reponsibility to protect the safety of other humans if we have that capability, by whatever means and steps necessary.

This is a typical bed wetting liberal statement. I guess it doesn't matter if it *was* a real threat then, does it? The ugly mean spirited human was wrong again :rolleyes:

Definitely. First of all, I have a problem with animals in confinement. I realize there are benefits to having endangered animals in zoos but I still think it must totally suck for them. I'm kind of thinking that the poor things shouldn't be there in the first place. It would have to be an enormous and fabulous facility with only rescued or orphaned apes that would otherwise have no chance to survive in the wild on their own.

Having said that, if a gorilla attacked my two-year-old I'd have to agree with you. It is now a dangerous animal with a history of attacking small helpless humans. What would cause it to do that anyway? This animal escaped and then attacked. It was not provoked, at least there is no mention of that. Maybe it was just sick and tired of being in a controlled environment. Frustration. Sheer anger. Hormones. Any combination or all of the above. (???) Yes, the zoo was negligent and ultimately responsible for this. Absolutely. Can't really blame the gorilla for being a gorilla...

It's very sad and it's easy for me to sit here with my toddle playing happily and safely under the dining room table and say that the gorilla should not have been killed but in all honesty, if it had been my precious child I might just indeed want to pull the trigger myself. That's my mothers instinct overriding my love-and-respect-all-animals instinct. I have four rescued dogs and if one of them even bared its teeth at my kid that thing would be off to the vet to be euthanized. The potential for harm is there and while this may sound cold and callous, my child is far more valuable to me than any animal, no matter what it is. Now that prolly has nothing to do with gorillas escaping from the zoo and attacking children....but going off on tangents is my forte Anything that attacks children unprovoked doesn't usually fare well in my court.

According to CNN.com... "Some youths had reportedly teased Jabari shortly before.
"

CNN Report

So yes, Jabari was teased and provoked, apparently to a point where agitated so much he began to beat on the door. That's when the door gave way and he got out.

Ahhhh..........well then the little brats deserved it! (j/k)

Have you been to the Dallas Zoo?
Then you would understand this tragiic event!
Either way it effects both species......

Gorilla,----------It's whats for dinner.

While I agree with most of your statement. One cannot put blame on the gorilla. It was not his fault he was in poor conditions. It was not his fault that his pen was inadequate to hold him. It was not his fault that some little pimple faced jerks with low IQ's teased him into a rage. It was not his fault that the zoo employed undertrained staff that had no clear plan to act on this situation.

He was acting like a male an angry/frustrated/poorly cared for, male gorilla.

Muktuk, I don't believe any of the kids that were teasing Jabari were among the injured.

As I was penning this note, I came across this article. I am glad to see that the zoo may lose it's accredidation due to this incident as well as those in the past. I also wonder that if the mother had not interviened, would the toddler have been killed? I think it's likely.

The links to the video footage didn't transfer so you will have to go to main site for them. You can also submit your thoughts on the Dallas Zoo here.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...a.9b775e1a.html


Zoo under investigation in gorilla attack

03:52 PM CST on Friday, March 19, 2004


By KIMBERLY DURNAN / Dallas Web Staff



Thursday’s escape of a gorilla in which four people were injured could cost the Dallas Zoo its license and accreditation or result in fines, according to officials from agencies looking into the attack.

Darby Holladay, spokesman for the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, said Friday that the federal agency has launched an investigation that takes into account prior incidents at the zoo, but he declined to elaborate.

“If we feel there is any violation of the Animal Welfare Act, then we will open an investigation. The totality of a licensee’s background is always taken into consideration,” he said. “The penalties range from fines to revocation of license.”


Jabari escaped Thursday and was shot by police after injuring four people. Jabari, a 13-year-old gorilla, escaped from his 2-acre enclosure on Thursday evening and attacked several people before charging police officers, who fired three shots and killed him.

The zoo offered free admission Friday, but the Wilds of Africa exhibit remained closed.

“We are relentless in our concerns for ensuring our visitors who come here are safe and have a good time,” Dallas Zoo director Rich Buickerood said. “This unfortunate incident is not going to stop us from pursuing that.”

In an outpouring of support, the zoo has received phone calls and flowers from across the country, including a private donation of $1 million to upgrade the gorilla habitat, Buickerood said.

It was the third incident involving primates in the past six years at the Dallas Zoo.

A gorilla mauled a 25-year-old zookeeper in November 1998 after the door to the animal's cage was left open, zoo officials said at the time. Two years later, the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service fined the zoo $25,000 for that escape and other shortcomings, noting it failed to maintain structurally sound housing facilities for animals.

Gorilla escapes at Dallas Zoo



About Jabari
• Age: 13
• Birthplace: Metro Toronto Zoo
• Dallas Zoo debut: January 1995
• Personality: Zoo officials described him as in the prime of his life: mischievous and inquisitive with a love for climbing trees. He also enjoyed wrestling with other gorillas. Zoo officials stressed that all of the gorillas are wild animals, but the Dallas Zoo director did not recall any major problems with Jabari.


If you have photos of this incident, you can e-mail them to news8@wfaa.com. If you have video, please call the WFAA-TV news desk at 214-977-6213.

In 2000, a chimpanzee escaped and reached a nearby neighborhood, where she climbed a telephone pole. After she was shot with a tranquilizing dart, she fell and was electrocuted.

Jabari romped for 40 minutes Thursday through the forested jungles of the Wilds of Africa exhibit before police marksmen or zoo workers armed with tranquilizer guns could gain a clear shot, zoo officials said.

"It tried to charge two of our officers, so we had to shoot it. You can imagine the pandemonium we had out here when he got loose,” Deputy Police Chief Daniel Garcia said. “We felt terrible we had to put this animal down."

Rivers Noah, 3, was in fair condition Friday at Children's Medical Center with multiple bites to his head and chest. His 26-year-old mother, Keisha Heard, also was bitten and was in good condition at Parkland Memorial Hospital.

“The gorilla just … grabbed him up and he was biting him in his side, and I ran over to him and then the gorilla swung his arm out,” Ms. Heard told Good Morning America. She said she and Rivers got trapped with the animal in an enclosed exhibit until someone with wire cutters sliced a hole into a fence so they could escape.

Two other people suffered less severe injuries.

Accredited since 1985, the Dallas Zoo is reviewed every five years by the American Zoo and Aquarium Association. Animal exhibitors covet the designation because it helps them qualify for grants, attract more qualified staff and obtain better access to trading and breeding animals. Of about 2,800 wildlife exhibitors, only 213 are AZA accredited, spokeswoman Alison Stevenson said.

The Dallas Zoo was not scheduled for re-accreditation until March 2007. A commission will ask for an initial report about the gorilla escape, then decide whether to investigate, Ms. Stevenson said.

“We don’t know if we will do an investigation, but it’s likely we will,” she said. “It’s possible that their accreditation is in jeopardy, but right now we don’t know. It’s too early.”

Witnesses told zoo officials that a group of children had taunted the gorilla shortly before its escape from the award-winning gorilla-conservation area surrounded by a 16-foot concave wall.

Dan Wharton, chairman of the AZA Gorilla Species Survival Plan, said containment issues are a top priority for zoos, which are trying to present wildlife in an urban setting.

Gorillas are usually surprised to find themselves outside their normal habitat, he said.

“He can retreat or show signs of dominance, which seems to be the case in the Dallas incident,” said Wharton, who is the director of the Central Park Zoo in New York. “Thank goodness gorillas are not really psychologically designed to concentrated, prolonged attacks. They are not in a murderous revenge mood. They want to ensure that whatever they are threatened by is not going to keep coming toward them.”

Calling gorillas “inspirational,” Wharton said the animals are popular among zoo workers because “they have a gentle quality about them and are known as gentle giants.”

Julie Buxton, a volunteer gorilla guide at the zoo, cried when she heard that the playful Jabari had been killed.

“I would stare at him and he would slyly grab some dirt, throw it at me and run. He was so funny, like a little kid,” she said. “Even though he was over 300 pounds, he thought he could hide behind a little branch. He would take peeks from behind the twig then drop it and run, thinking he was sly and coy.”

Ms. Buxton said she did not intend to downplay the visitors’ injuries, but she considered Jabari’s death a loss for the zoo and the Dallas community.

“He will be missed,” she said.

Dallas Morning News staff writers Katie Menzer, Jason Trahan, Gretel C. Kovach and Michael Grabell, WFAA-TV and the Associated Press contributed to this report.


E-mail kdurnan@dallasnews.com





Redwolf

A tragedy all the way around.

I also love animals!! and I agree fellow humans and especially children were in danger, however, just something to ponder, what about all the animals we humans wipe out and put in danger??Then we wonder why they sometimes strike back.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



This is the exact mindset of some people,and the reason so many beautiful animals are endangered. In my opinion, people like Mr. Macho here should be put in a cage with the animal they want to kill Lion, tiger, gorilla etc. (UNARMED)!!
Now without your big bad gun Mr. Macho, lets see who eats who!! and who is for dinner!! Without your gun the gorilla would tear your head off faster than you could sh--t your pants!! which I'm positive you would be in the process of doing, without your gun handy!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I am not against hunting certain animals for food, but when it comes to hunting beautiful animals like lions, tigers, gorillas, wolves, eagles etc. just for sport, and putting these species in danger of extinction, that kind of mentality and hunting I condemn and strongly oppose!!

What a shame, a tragic end to a difficult situation.

Hopefully, with that $1 million gift, they can get a real door and maybe a lock to help keep the next gorilla in the cage.

I had an experience as a kid at a place just up the interstate from us called "Snake Farm". Its a tourist trap that has all kinds of reptiles, spiders, snakes etc. ..its like a private zoo. Well, a number of years ago, they also had a gorilla. My uncle and I went to Snake Farm to check out the place as he was from Ohio and had never been there. Well, we get to where the gorilla is and you can tell its an old gorilla. My uncle decides to start messing with it by tossing peanuts and gum in the cage which is one of those old timey bar cages. Only about 4 feet separated us from the gorilla. So, Im standing there and unc tosses a peanut and hits the gorilla squarely on the nose.

Well, this pissed Mr. Gorilla right off and he began shaking the cage he was in and screaming at the top of his lungs. I distinctly remember the cage door rattling very loosely in its latch. I have no doubt had we not moved on at that point, he would have probably gotten out and kicked our butts. I wish that I was as astute then as I am now..I would have made a scene about having a gorilla in such poor surroundings, but I was only about 10 or so.

I stand corrected, it was an unfortunate introduction of a word on my part due to trying to post a rushed note, waiting for my paycheck to make it to the bank to cash and pay my car insurance which would have expired at midnight last night, and basically just going nuts for a day.

The intended statement was... "The blame of yesterday's tragedy belongs not on Jabari, the lowland gorilla that was shot and killed, but upon the zoo, some zoo employees, and a group of observers."

The addition of the word "only" was my mistake. Thanks for the catch and I'll try to be more careful next time.

I agree,it isn't the gorillas fault,it is sad deal..

Also a lot of these zoos take these animals in,I am not sure about gorillas but like elephant that have been torchered for years in circuses and in there native lands are taken in by people who care enough to take care of them.
I don't know about this particular zoo were this happened but just in general.

Tarren, nobody was advocating the hunting of a gorilla. But I do like you calling me Mr. Macho, as I am a human and at the top of the food chain, not in the middle. The animals were put here for us to eat and live off of,{read your bible}.
I will not start quoting verses or scriptures. But I believe you are getting a little carried away with the whole tragic event. Yes, a wild animal was taken down, and yes there were people hurt. What would you have them do, throw more women and children to the beast till a tranq. gun could be located? I honestly hope my life or someone elses is never in danger and left up to you to decide what to do.
You would be no help whatsoever. You are probably one of those who will give up their rights, before fighting for them.

Animals do have rights, to potatoes, gravy and a nice salad.

I will post no more on this board, [ lets hear the hoo-rays] I have no time for liberal minded individuals, that cannot see. I thought this was a good bigfoot board, but apparently I along with many others, found out differently, just another closed and blinded group of people who do not much more than wile away their lives on the computer.

I wouldn't call hunting for any of those species a "SPORT". I support the hunting of lions and tigers only when they, as an individual animal, have been certified a man-killer. Doing so means they have lost their instinctive fear of man, and historically they will continue to hunt man as a food source until they are stopped. I see no sense in hunting gorillas under any circumstance, and usually those that are killed, it's by the hand of poachers who are attempting to collect specific body parts that have been deemed magical in local legends, or by specific ethnic groups. Let's also not forget black bears who have died at the hand of poachers because of the high demand of their gall bladders by some groups willing to pay high prices. I can also understand ranchers hunting wolves when it can be proven they have lost livestock to a pack. This is not an act of sport, but of survival. Eagles make no sense in being hunted, and the greatest loss of the lives of eagles was not by people carrying firearms, but by the insecticides used by farmers, I believe it was DDT that was determined to be the biggest culprit.



First of all I take offense at being lumped into a group. I am an individual who has taken the time to contribute to this board by way of relating personal experiences, personal knowlege and personal opinions. I don't agree with everyone here, however, I do hear everyone out in hopes of forming a more accurate understanding of who I am communicating with. Once I accomplish this, I can form a better presentation of the thoughts I am trying to convey in order to reach a better understanding.

Since you have also chosen to include me in the "group" I can only assume that you feel I also while away my life on the computer and not much more. I'm sorry, but I'm not independently wealthy, and do have to work to continue living. I work 12 hours shifts normally 5 days a week, but on occassion 6 days. So there isn't a whole lot of time to spend in the field. However, in the last month I have logged several hundred miles of forest roads, game trails, edges of creek beds and gravel bars in the creeks looking for tracks and other evidence of Bigfoot in this area.

There are no Hoorays from me, in your choosing to no longer post to this board. For it's one less avenue of information, one less voice to make this a better board than what it is already, and one less mind to scrutinize the evidence presented by others here.

No, the reason you should NOT post on this board anymore is because you're a stereotypical red-neck and a stereotyping fool. No, sir, you've weeded yourself out of here and not because of any points of view expressed in here.

This one kills me - "I will post no more on this board, [ lets hear the hoo-rays] I have no time for liberal minded individuals, that cannot see." Huh? Cannot see WHAT? Oh and the bible inference as justification KILLS me too. For the record, I expressed my DISPLEASURE at the above tragedy earlier in the thread but I'm hardly a liberal NOR a democrat. I've been a self employed businessman for almost 20 years and have voted REPUBLICAN for more than 25 and I make NO apologies for my success. No, what I was opposed to has nothing to do with politics or political leanings. I was opposed to the general STUPIDITY of the situation of how taking the 'easy way out' by KILLING IT (and completely disregarding it's value to mankind) is the preferred method of 'dealing' with situations (such as this one) that require a bit more MENTAL exercise than deciding how many bullets to use. Ya know Mr. Gun Totin' Bible Thumpin' Apologist, it's OKAY that I have a disagreements as to the way law enforcement 'WORKS', I am allowed, and it's similarly OKAY that many of you here DON'T.

Anyway, having 'enlightended' me with your 'post', it comes as no surprise that the 'stupidity aspect' of the situation went right over YOUR head. Too busy wondering what caliber of bullet was used I bet, huh? Good luck out there because we (at least me) surely won't be missing your ignorance here, we DON'T HAVE TIME FOR IT.

"Harry"

I shall neither exclaim "Hooray!" Nor shall I shed a tear. It is a pity that you do not avail yourself of the excellent opportunity to debate your beliefs with that of others on these boards, instead of turning tail and retreating into the dark fog , from whence you came.
As an opposing viewpoint, I think that myself and many others found out that this message board is an excellent forum. With many excellent clear minded individuals partaking.
It is just as well you are leaving, for obviously this method of communicating is not your forte. Also, the manner in which you made your departure does you no credit. It would have been sufficient to merely just 'go'!
Your departure leaves me unmoved for those reasons. And as is human nature..within a week, no one wil remember that you had ever posted here!
You obviousy know how to leave your mark.

OLD MAN :

OLD MAN:


WELL Old Man, I have been a volunteer fire fighter for 5 years now, and have helped fight over 15 fires!! I have helped people out of their burning homes and workplaces!! I have also assisted people who were involved and injured in car accidents, am thorughly trained in first aid, C.P.R., and search and rescue. I also served 4 years in The United States Army,and another 2 years in the reserves!!
I would not hesitate to put my life in danger, in order to save another!! I also would not hesitate to put my life in danger to try to save an animal(I have helped saved a total of 4 cats and 7 dogs in my firefighting duties) So you sir, have nothing to say to me on the matter of my dedication to helping others!!

In fact I was putting my life on the line in the gulf war everyday, for my country!!
So I know all about fighting for my rights and the rights of others!! Genius!!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Also Old Man,I would kill an animal if it was necessary to protect others, not just because I am at the top of the food chain and therefore I can!!
I was simply replying to your assine Gorilla its whats for dinner statement!!

I've lived in Dalas for something like three thousand years, it seems, and the city, its institutions, and yes, its police too, are pretty much a joke. But in this case, the police deserve praise for their actions (they exhibited remarkable restraint in not planting fake drugs on Jabari), and the poor gorilla, who really was a pretty cool critter, was merely doing what gorillas do.

As for the zoo.....well, they try to do too much with too little money. The dedication of the staff is beyond question - they're certainly not there to get rich or stay off the streets. Like the nation, state, and county, the city is broke too, and the zoo is not real high on the list when there's wars, sports arenas, and endless fights against topless clubs to pay for.

It seems that the behavior of some of the zoo visitors might have played a role. Reports indicate that people were teasing the animal. That's no surprise to me.

On trips to the D/FW zoos, especially on weekends, I've witnessed absolutely freakin' atrocious behavior over and over again. Some of the kids (and their inattentive, idiotic parents) should have been in cages as various animals viewed them from behind the glass. Beating HARD on the glass that holds back a gaboon viper. Parents do nothing, and even threaten to beat your ass if you voice your disgust. Taunting the primates and cats with an abandon that exceeds simple mischief. Throwing stuff in the habitats.

Obviously, most people are not like this, but enough are to present a baffling and disgusting problem. If you hate the animals, why the hell pay money to spend the day with them?

If a large primate is aroused enough by its tormentors that it manages to escape a secure area, I'm all for allowing it the brief indulgence of performing some amateur chiropractic therapy on the idiots that made it go, well, apeshit. But sadly Murphy's Law sometimes kicks in and the innocent people are caught in the way while the guilty flee the scene and start looking up lawyer men in the Yeller Pages, 'cause they've been traumatized and all. And left behind is a fine and noble animal shot full o' holes.

Measures that must be taken include greater supervision of the areas holding dangerous animals and a bloody sadistic no-tolerance policy on stupidity. There are more than enough sources of amusement that cater exclusively to the mentally deficient to keep these people busy after their ejection from the zoo.

While the details of the actual escape are still sketchy, 1) human error (cannot be eliminated completely) and 2) gorilla exceeding holding capacity of habitat (the primate exhibit is actually quite well designed and secure) are good places to focus on.

Human error is minimized by staff size, procedures, funding and training. An ultra-pissed-off super ape that can leap twice as far and withstand twice the punishment electrical shock barriers deal out is avoided by providing comfort. Keeping the worst of the gawkers under control might be a capital idea if the goal is to present a realistic habitat permitting safe, close observation.

After reading the whole thread, it got kindasorta interesting

Old man take a look at my life
I'm a lot like you

Well, maybe except for a few things......

> But I do like you calling me Mr. Macho, as I am a human and at the top of the food chain, not in the middle.

Machismo has nothing to do with the food chain. And as a human, you are anything but at the top of the food chain. Out of your home and without your gear, you're potential bear (shark, dog, etc.) meat, a rather feeble critter compared to many.

> The animals were put here for us to eat and live off of,{read your bible}.

No, that's not why they were put here. That's how it turned out.....SOMETIMES. Lots of aminals have eaten and lived off human flesh and blood (perhaps the skygod put us here for the Asian tiger mosquito to live off).

And, unless you want to cite the bible selectively, you're also subject to death by stoning if you work on the sabbath (Exodus 35:2). This includes a single phone call, reading a farm report, cleaning your tools, or even picking up sticks (Numbers 15:32-36). Might you have a stubborn and rebellious son? Gotta stone him to death, too (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). This was actually enforces in Massachusetts for a while, 'till they lightened up a bit. Or, the ban on Christmas Trees in Jeremiah 10:2-8. What if you sold a tree on the sabbath? You'd REALLY be in double trouble!

> I will not start quoting verses or scriptures.



> What would you have them do, throw more women and children to the beast till a tranq. gun could be located?

That's not a bad point, but I don't see a lot of scorn aimed at the police for shooting the gorilla. It seems that a more prompt response by the zoo staff with nonlethal means could have been possible, but by the time Johnny Law got there it was clearly the time to let the lead fly.

Anyone who spends time on this board in likely acquainted with the difficulties in quickly rendering a large animal passive with a tranq gun.

> I honestly hope my life or someone elses is never in danger and left up to you to decide what to do. You would be no help whatsoever. You are probably one of those who will give up their rights, before fighting for them.

> Animals do have rights, to potatoes, gravy and a nice salad.

Even to someone like me who adores a tasty slab of charred animal, this is a sad statement.

> I will post no more on this board, [ lets hear the hoo-rays] I have no time for liberal minded individuals, that cannot see. I thought this was a good bigfoot board, but apparently I along with many others, found out differently, just another
closed and blinded group of people

GrandCherokee done gave ya a better sendoff than I ever could. What a fine piece of work.

> who do not much more than wile away their lives on the computer.

Please note that you are posting here, too. I have always found this oft-expressed sentiment most curious and ironic.

From reading your posts here, you seem to be the closed-minded one. Closed-minded does NOT mean "in disagreement with you", and by definition, "liberal" means.....open minded!

Old man, you're a trip! I hope to see more posts from you.

I think my choice to leave was made in haste, and I have decided to stick around a while.

[EDIT] nevermind...

OOOOOH, I love it!!!!!!!

...you tricked me!

I just had to add something to this earlier post. Most animals require a very exact amount tranquilizer in just the right amount or it can actually harm the animal at least that's what I've seen on TV correct me if I'm wrong but if it's the case I'm sure every police department in the country has all their squad cars equipped with a tranq gun and darts loaded with exactly the right amount of traquilizer to effectively stop a gorilla without harming the animal itself

No I'm sure the police do not and are not expected to, However, The zoo which houses wild animals, and is responsible for them and their actions, should be expected to have tranq darts on hand and keepers who know how to effectivly use them!! And any zoo that does not or is not properly equipped to handle dangerous situations which may arise, is irresponsible and does not belong confining animals in the first place!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

After all, this is their buisness, and the zoo's responsibility!!

The newspapers said the gorilla had been loose for 40 minutes before it was shot. 40 minutes is too damn long for the zoo to be unable to get this situation controlled, or at least contained.
I don't think the police should have been put in the position they were. They're not the experts in dealing with animals. But the experts dropped the ball.

If you ever watch any hi tech shows on like discovery channel you've seen the hi tech police weapons they have come up with for stopping people without harm. All types of shootable nets and sticky goos, things that temporarily render a person useless and such. And considering that, you'd think zoo's would explorer that type of technology to be prepared for this type of situation.
I agree, it's their business, they are responsible for having contengicy plans other than shooting an animal for this type of situation. And certainly as mentioned, you'd think 40 minutes were enough time to have tranq. it.
They should have known it's weight and such. If they had that option, having the right amount wouldn't matter really anyhow, because it was still a better option than the certain effect bullets have.
What do these zoos do or prepare for, the police to handle their escaped animal situations? Were these people really this unprepared?