Was cruising around the BFRO site and couldn't find the link to this board anymore. Ironically it's the same link I used to originally find this place. What's up with that?

"Harry"

I think Matt Moneymaker removed it after the cedar ball farce

This would be the second time it's been removed.

Bipto,

Are we making Big Daddy mad?

Matt and I don't see eye to eye on how a place like this can end up helping the BFRO. That's not what it's here for, obvioulsy, but the BFRO usually comes off looking pretty good, IMO.

I agree - I think the BFRO benefits tremendously from the BFF - otherwise why would so many high ranking BFRO guys lurk here and 'borrow' our material ?

And, BFF benefits from having some of these BFRO guys here too.

With the exception of the cedar ball farce, I think everyone wins.

Anyone know what happened to the BFRO's "Expedition Coordination Forum?" For the last three weeks now, it states that its temporarily down for maintenance and to please check back tomorrow. Seems to me that 3 weeks is an awful long time to be down for maintenance. Have some feathers been ruffled on this BFRO forum? Normally, sites are never down for maintenance that long, unless of course someone saw it fit to close it down permanently.

I think they show their true colors if you really read what they have to say, and i dont mean this aginst everyone in the bfro but there are certian people that cause the whole group to look bad. if you dont agree with the bfro then you are blacklisted in a way, they get they get pissy and leave, i honeslt think they feel they are above reproach in this field and no one is period. There is an arogance about them, just read how they lash back at media artical that dont go the way they feel it should, im suprised that LMS is on hte web page , the more i watch it the more i think it really did not come out the way they hoped, No dna, scream could be human, memorial day footage most likley not real, freeman 50/50, once aagin the only good evidence was the patty film, and the skookum cast. But i guess thats a hand they cant really bite, they need white wolf productions, cuase we all know its really about the media attention in hte long run.

Squatch,

Don't hold back. Tell me how you really feel.

It sounds like you're picking a fight. Please don't turn this thread into a pro/anti BFRO thread. Been there, done that. Don't go there, don't do that.

It started with a straightforward question which the mods answered in a straightfoward fashion. Let's let sleeping dogs lie....

BTW, I am not a BFRO member...

not picking a fight, just saying how i feel about the way they treat people, if the bfro does not think that the bff forum is good for the bfro then by all means people lets not promote the bfro here, the group is not all its cracked up to be, they all not the be all end all org that some seem to think they are. Somethime a simlple ? asked will lead to answers that others may not like, or opinions thya may not like. Im sorry but i do not belive that people should watch their tounges in order to not offend the almighty bfro.

just my two .02

BFRO as a group of individuals. Outstanding. They are a great asset to the field in what they have done and still do. I think this forum benefits from their presense (as INDIVIDUALS) and the BFRO individuals benefit from members of this forums. All done as individuals with no corporate influence.

As its corporate face, I dont care much for it. Lots of folks here do not exhibit what I used to slam others for. Fishbone is one example, DDA is another (as well as others who are more low key to their membership). They are great members of that org. I would join in a heartbeat if it were not for my distrust of its inner core dealings, or my basic distrust of large orgs.

Of course any org will have its problem children who take themsleves too seriously. (cough 50rnd glock mags, cough)

I like that they do that and hope they forward it back to both the author ('reporter' would be too generous a term) of the article and the editor of the newspaper. That article is a justifiable example of when the "dimwit" label can be reasonably applied.

Personally, I'd promote the BFRO as the best national bigfoot organization. That's my opinion. The forums cannot promote anything, per se, but when I said the forum was good for the BFRO is was because whenever their work has been challenged here, they have come out better for the exchange (after some initial pain, perhaps).

However, I have no intention of getting in a pissing match with the BFRO over this. I respect their members and I love their site.

Ooo! I know! I know!

Nope, no feathers have been ruffled (at least not to my knowledge).

The forum system is being switched over since the previous one didn't have the functionality that was desired.

And yes, three weeks is a long time but (always that BUT), this has all been taking place during the Christmas holidays and since we are a volunteer organization it has to be worked in when it can.

And you can feel free to dog cuss me since I'm the one that has been working on putting the new forum together. It's basically ready to roll now but there are a few finishing touches that Matt will have to complete.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

And squatchworks, I don't know how much the BFRO, as an organization, needs White Wolf Productions but I can damn sure tell you it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever do any work for them again. They did a fine job with LMS, IMO but they walked all over the backs of several people, many of them in the BFRO, when the put together the Mysterious Encounters series.

now that you mention it i do recall hearing rumbles from within the bfro about staying clear of Doug and white wolf, but when lms 2 happens will these certain people want to be part of it? I heard they accused Doug of embelishing to make the show better. Like using calls that were not bigfoot but human and using them as bigfoot calls, things like that. or the photo of an known creature at skookum knowing it was a squirl and not unknown. If all that is true then they should stay clear of any projects of his to keep thier integerty in check. Im sure im ruffling feathers but this is a non bias board and all opinions should be voiced with out fear of hurting feeling. When questions get asked some replys might not be what others want to hear. I have insight others may not have and others have insight i may not have and with that maybe the big picture will be seen someday.

Thanks for the update Fishbone. Don't get me wrong, but I think you and the BFRO are doing a great job. I realize also, that its hard to please everyone in this world when you are doing the job as a volunteer.

I agree with Bip, in that I love the BFRO's website. IMO, out of all the resources on the web, no one else even comes close to what they have to offer.

I found this place b/c of the BFRO's link, and I hope that they do put the link back up. However, one thing I have noticed about the BFF is that some folks do have a mean streak that perhaps the anonymous nature of this forum fosters. I can understand why some in the BFRO would take offense at some of the comments made here. I certainly would. Granted, some of those mean streaks may have been honed by the perpetual trolls lurking under the bridge, but pursuant to Bip's suggestion, trolls are best ignored. They are here solely to provoke a response. If we if we deny them the one thing they seek, they will go away.

With that in mind, I think we should all remember that it is much easier to tear down someone/something, much easier to point out a problem, than it is to fix the problem. And as long as the BFRO is run by fallible people there will be problems, there will be areas that can be criticized- and some of those problems may be significant. But the BFRO is still the only boat afloat IMO, the only organization that I know of that is recognized by major significant scientific organizations, as well as the only one being repeatedly featured on many prominent cable channels, so I believe that we would all benefit by plugging the holes instead of simply pointing out where the leaks are. After all, don't we all have the same basic goal? I believe it would behoove us all to work together.

I do believe that there is a place for legitimate, constructive criticism, but attacks on people's character are uncalled for. We are all going to have differences on theories, methodology, techiniques, etc., but isn't that the beauty of the human condition? Perhaps if we can be more civil to each other, respect our differences (however eccentric), and show some gratitude towards the BFRO for what they have done for this forum (the link here, and the BFRO's members that graciously partake in conversations with novices) we can re-establish a relationship with them. Such a relationship will only benefit both parties.

Thank you for your time. Sorry for the typos.

Jonathan

All this week, typos are free! Yes, FREE!!

And the thing about the anonymous nature of the forum is not a unique issue with BFF. All forums have that problem. It's the nature of the beast. I will say that compared to some forums which are not only anonymous, but also mostly unmoderated, we could have it a lot worse...

So do I, I couldn't agree more.





WTF?

novices - people like me.

[edit] nevermind

Counselor,

Remember there are no experts in this field. Dont let someone assume they are better that you in this field. Even if you are new at this today, you may be the one who solves the mystery tomorrow.

Well, nevermind my "WTF?". It's just a personal problem for me I guess. I have never really liked the idea that someone has to "stoop" to my level, and "graciously" speak to me. I just took offense to that because I also consider myself to be a "novice", and I didn't know that joining the BFRO would instantly elevate someone above that title. That's all, please carry on.


[edit] I shouldn't have put that "?" on the "nevermind my "WTF?". I was actually saying to nevermind my WTF. I wasn't questioning your edited post SH......lol

Dude, not nevermind to you. It was a nevermind to the scribble scrabble thought pattern I typed out. I just thought to direct it to the "novice" instead.


I agree with you 1000 percent.

Seriously, I do.

I knew that Skunk, that's why I decided to post that other reply as well....

whew.

no sweat vol - all i meant by that was simply that I am really new to any kind of BF topics, and there are alot of folks on this forum who know alot more than me, who have done alot more than me, and they have "graciously" tolerated my incessant questions.

When I said "novice" I was referring to myself, not to anyone else.

Sorry for the confusion.

J

Hugs! Hugs for everyone!

Ok.......but I must warn you, I didn't put on any deodorant this morning

Don't be silly Vol, of course it elevates your status. I goes all the way up to "very interested individual". Along with that you get an official propeller beanie and a secret decoder ring.

In that case sign me up. Doubt they would want me but damn, a propeller beanie.

This is getting pretty tempting I tell ya. Actually its the minds of JimF Fishbone DDA, SR and a few others that has me interested. But alas I am not a joiner. Last time I did that they tossed my sorry ass out of an airplane for a living.

Just when we think its safe to go back in the water. Just remember Brian.(squatchworks) You are not the only one with insight into this. I take it you are going on another bashing trip by your posts. Go ahead raise a fuss like you did on the Sasquatch Northwest board. I remember you saying you were sorry a year after the fact on that one. I said it then and I'm saying it now. Nothing good will come of it.

John D. Pickering

to SkunkHunter and anyone else that I have pissed off in the past. I'm trully sorry and can not defend my actions. All I can say is I acted more on emotions with little thought. Take care and Happy New year.

John D. Pickering

You know, I just don't have the energy for another BFRO sucks/BFRO rules thread. Guys, it just ain't worth the neurons to worry about this crap.

If people have specific issues with the BFRO, then lets hear 'em, but talking trash about it just because it's an organization is like talking trash about the BFF just because it's a forum.

compared to other orgs BFRO is head and shoulders above, probably wouldn't be here if not for their site, my .02 worth

Jay

Hey John , that a damn cute dog , is that your dog or puppy I like you John and I like Richard but i dont have to be pro bfro. Its not a bashing trip, just my opinon on a ? asked, if it was a bashing trip i would use names and such, What the heck i thought you ,DDA and me were staying away from these boards? You know what would be sweet is if a board like this had audio message instead of text, that way the tone of what is being said would be heard and people would not take half the things said so wrong.

Tsiatko brings home a point. The term "emotions". And they vary. Two weeks ago I would have skipped over this thread. But maybe, just maybe I can say something that is helpful. Maybe not. But thats the beauty of the forums right?
You can say what you want.

Here's a story for you. Feel free to pass over it. I didnt get a computer until 2000. I didnt want one.
Last thing in the world for me. After I lost a parent, and was rather stigmatized,
call it depression, whatever you like, one of my siblings suggested to me, "Get a computer and do what you love." I thought to myself, "Damn, I should... put me in contact with all my buddies, all over the USA." & I knew what she meant by the "Love" part... and yeah, I am single so that was a consideration.
Basically what happened (and your wondering wtf is this?) I was given an alternative. To actually get off my "feelin sorry for myself condition" and going on the hunt. It was time. So I got that dang computer. I didnt know crap, but I learned how to email. One of the first things I did was track down a sas report that was local. I found some guy who had an email with a "BFRO" at the end of his name. I thought Hmm, aint that that Moneymaker guy's place where there were vocalizations and stuff ? (several years before that I was messing with some stuff maybe about 98 where I got vocals). THAT really interested ime. BIG TIME. I had already put the dang book work in...decades worth, and travelled widely in back country. Never anything I could put a finger on though... about 40 states... But here was a situation where maybe, just maybe, I could fit in. I wrote the guy with the BFRO part of his email. I asked him about the sighting, I asked him about his opinions on the report. What I got back was interesting....."Who are you and why do you want to know?" THAT answer intrigued me. 'So now motivated, I fired up my resume and bombarded this guy. I had to know. Was there active research being done that coordinated with people who could bring legitimacy to this endeavor (chasing down sasquatches and validating them) and what of the stuff behind the scenes ????????????? He answered me. He liked my resume.
He immediately asked me if I was interested in helping acquire data. I said absolutely. As much as anything else I do on the planet. That was in 2000. Its now going 2004. Am I glad I joined the BFRO then? One of the wisest choices I ever made while I am on the planet. The only other thing that compares with it was my trip to Australia. And... the journey has just begun.
I can go on and on about what it means to me... but I won't. But I will say this, anyone who lets simple conflicts get in the way of their goals... is wasting time.
This is an incredible situation we have here. And I have said before, my appreciation for the BFF and the folks that often frequent it is incredible. Its my social when I cant find someone to talk to. Its a great place to meet people who have incredible backgrounds, drive, intensity, and can make a difference in this endeavor. I learn so much just by studying the people who talk about the subject matter. That's entertainment in itself. The emotions are wild. The friends here are incredible. Take a moment and ask yourself why you might be angry with someone. Chances are its rather fixable and really isn't a big deal in the overall scheme of things. We all want the same things. I just prefer to do it without spotlight. If you get discoveries that are significant, if they are poorly documented, its like telling someone that you just met Santa Clause. and then its a riot. That's obvious. All this is preliminary stuff and every month there will be new things. Why? Because its not going to go away. But as a nice New Years Resolution, you might consider not burning bridges as that might be the difference between success and failure in your goals. True, you can't trust everyone, true you can't believe everyone, but you can respect them if you learn more about why they are the way they are. Ever wonder why? We are all governed by limited factors... just like the sasquatches are. Theirs are more wildlife oriented like topography, prey base, other sasquatches, habitat, pressure on that habitat in the form of change by H sapiens. People need the same stuff... water, food, shelter
that costs money. We all have different ways of bringing that in. It may affect the way we write on this board. Make mistakes > ?? All the time. Learn? All the time. Takes experience to be a good forum analyst. I got dragged here by Tim Cullen. He got brought into the BFRO by some guy named Vince.
Then the guy does a double take on me as I am gettin to know him and he brings me here. Damned cool place. Then... I needed a break from all the stuff I had my fingers into, and there was and is a lot.... I proceeded to learn about forums and communications and what kind of tool they can be for research. and Now, 2,500 plus posts later... I am still learning. I spose I have to manipulate this read now but that's my story and I am sticking to it. Regarding the BFF and the BFRO, in my opinion, there will always be a connection. As some of the mystery comes out of the BFRO some will like it more and some will like it less. Hey, I aint forcing anyone to like pistachio or raspberry flavored ice cream here, kind of the same difference with what makes you tick.... & some of you might.
---------------
So what's he sayin' you might ask. I'm not totally sure either. But I did want to say something positive and I think the wonder of what we are doing is just that.
In time more people will understand more about the different organizations out there. The goals are similar.. and one of them is to improve. And association wth the BFF in many ways is an improvement for the BFRO in mho. It makes us all better at communication, thinking wiser, and dealing with adversity and joining up with people from all backgrounds who want, will and are contributing in many many different ways. Perhaps some more later but Happy New Year Guys. And especially, the Gals. hehe
Be safe.

Dang Stream!
Keep that up, and at some point you'll need a publisher..
Great, great post.

Stream, your wisdom is only over shadowed by what a nice guy you are. Happy New Year.

John

SR, I am so happy and proud to call you my friend.

StreamRunner
May you have a Happy New Year.You are truely a Good person.
To all the other Bigfoot Hunters may you all have a good year hunting .
Mark A
Never ever will I have beef with the BFRO They are very informative.Thank you

SR,
You improve this place, my friend.
Jan

SR,
You improve this place, my friend.
Jan

Amen!

This is the reason I am here, and intend to stay.

Thanks Buddy

Exceptionally well said, SR. It is indeed an honor and a privilege to be able to count you as a friend and a colleague.

Stream,

I already know what a wise, humble guy you are from our many conversations.

Your positive, civil-minded philosophy towards others shines through always.

Thanks once again for helping to put things in perspective.

Very well spoken SR. You're a credit to this board and to the BFRO and I too am proud to call you a friend and colleague. Bless your heart.

hugs
T

I agree, thanks Streamrunner for putting it all into perspective. I think this forum exists as a source of information and not to validate or invalidate anyone. I have met a lot of nice people here and they have really sparked my interest in this subject. I am all about the knowing and I am certainly getting to know stuff here.


As sort of an analogy (maybe a bad one I don't know) I once worked with a woman who I got along with real well at first...or so I thought...we both did the same job...mostly troubleshooting stuff on printing and graphics...I considered her a friend as well as a coworker...we socialized after work and stuff too...

As work went on I excelled at my job..I got recognized a lot for solving a lot of problems...it was really nice...what I didn't realize was happening was that the more kudos I got from the bosses..the less I was being liked by this woman. I didn't realize it at the time at all. I am very naive about that. Everyone else acted real happy for me...there was talk of a promotion.

One day I was in the restroom...this woman walks in then another...they start talking...it was the woman I had thought was my friend and another coworker...they started talking about me...at first it sounded innocent...then, the woman I had thought was my friend just started saying I must have a hard time getting into the office with such a huge head and now I must think that my *S**t don't stink and who was I coming in an taking over...blah blah blah...the other coworker didn't say much and then said something about thinking we were friends.
My supposed friend said "oh yeah I'll be her friend when she quits acting all high and mighty and know it all...it'd be nice if she'd make a mistake once in a while just to make the rest of us look better. She makes us all look like we aren't doing just as good of a job".

They both left and I didn't say a word. I was so hurt I didn't know what to do. I went to friend who is a counselor she said to me.."Some people have self esteem issues and do not handle another person's successes well. They would rather see you fail so that they can feel better about the job they are doing. You need to let it go and continue to do your best".

I did try to let it go...but I never trusted that woman again...I felt so betrayed. I never confronted her and I wish now I had. I didn't feel like creating an argument and I doubted she'd be honest with me anyway. But the damage done was never undone. We drifted apart and I got another job. I don't speak to her ever.

We all carry in us some deep resentment over something. Only we know why, but it is how we allow it to affect our lives and the people in it that is either advantageous or detrimental to our goals.

I would like to think we are all in search of a common goal here. Being concerned about what other people think or don't think doesn't have to dictate behavior. I would only be concerned if someone outright lied or purposely tried to damage my credibility. If we all carefully think about what we say and why we say it...and the effect it may have.... perhaps we wouldn't always say it. Hanging onto resentment
for personal reasons does more damage than good. Let go of the resentment..and maybe your life will change...I know mine has. Thanks for letting me post my ideas on here everyone...I truly appreciate it! You all have great things to contribute and I enjoy reading the posts! You have all really opened my eyes to a truly fascinating subject.

-Janice

Wise one you are Sosha. & hope ya had a great holiday.