Dantallus
Nov 6 2009, 10:19 AM
Last weekend I went out to visit my folks in rural Southeast Tx. As many of you know I grew up on a farm about 60 miles north of Houston, bordered by the Sam Houston National Forest. Late Saturday evening I got on my four wheeler and road the 3 miles down the old dirt road, unlocked the gate and proceeded down to the old graveyard. Its overgrown with weeds and brush. It hasnt been mowed or cleaned ud up in about 4 years I later found out from my mother. The cemetery is surrounded by a 10 foot game fence to keep deer from the neighboring game preserve out of it. But I found some interesting signs of possible Sasquatch visitations inlcluding a section of fence that had been pulled up in the corner for easy entry as well some foot impression and possible bedding area. There are wild berries and wild tomatos growing there as well, pecans from two trees that reside there and some strangely stacked shells along with a pair of rocks for cracking them open en-masse I suspect. I found no human footprints of any kind in the dry soil, nor did I find any deer tracks inside the graveyard. I did find some coon tracks on top of a table that sits under the aluminum awning but that's all. Noone had been down here in years and as I sat there for more than an hour just listening I started to get that creeped out feeling when a very quiet series of wood knocks started. I thought about responding with my own but decided to just let things play out so to speak. The grass there is shoulder high to me at 5'10" and the ground has a gentle roll to it down and away from where I sat. From where I was perched I could barely see the top of the game fence on the opposite side of the cemetery and when I heard the wires being pulled in order for something to make it under the fence and into the graveyard with me I had about enough and quickly skirted the field and got some distance. Whoever it was wanted to get up close and personal and I wasnt about to have a face to face with old Squatchy there with no place to run and seriously limited visibility.
I road down the lane a bit and stopped the engine, looking back and listening. I didnt see anything but I heard the corrogated aluminium roof of the old funeral arbor thrum loudly as if something hit it, or threw something at it. I hadnt told anyone where I was going and then decided I had best make my way out of there since dusk was settling. I'm a combat Marine, but I know my limitations, especially being unarmed and amost certainly an unwanted intruder.
I did find some "other" impressions. I'll post the pics as soon as I upload them.
Dantallus
Nov 6 2009, 11:21 AM
Some of the pics I took while researching in the cemetery
Click to view attachment An older impression that was protected from the elements because it was under the awning.
Click to view attachmentThis one is a little confusing. I could find no evidence of a tread pattern as in the shole of a shoe or boot but it seemed so smooth. I wish I had casting materials with me for ID of possible DR's.
Click to view attachmentAnother print found near the inside perimeter of the fence.
Click to view attachmentBedding area, the grass here is very pressed down and near the section of fence that had been pulled up into a low arch. I found no traces of hair or skin of any type on the fence.
Click to view attachmentThe game fence. Nearly 9 feet high in this section, 10ft in others
Click to view attachmentThe view I had from beneath the arbor. As you can see the growth is very high. I heard the noise of the fence wire being lifted directly across from me beyond the magnolia tree pictured. The tall grass was very matted and pressed down under this tree as well. Excellent concealment.
Click to view attachmentA view of the lone tree from the other side, you can see the roof of the arbor in the background
Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentPlenty of wild food growing to eat
FanofSquatch
Nov 6 2009, 11:53 AM
Perhaps some BigTex cameras are in order. Do you have a game cam you can put there?
Dantallus
Nov 6 2009, 01:07 PM
QUOTE(FanofSquatch @ Nov 6 2009, 11:53 AM)

Perhaps some BigTex cameras are in order. Do you have a game cam you can put there?
I do own two reconix IR cameras. Both of which have spent time at two other research areas on the San Jacinto and Trinity Rivers with no conclusive photos of anything Sasquatch rleated. After having them in the field for nearly two years I am beginning to fall into the category of researchers who believe the IR or electronic mechanisms in the camera are somehow detectable and that Sasquatch are leary of them, the fact that they have no idea what they actually do is irrelevant. And if you place the camera too far away from the target area all youre going to get is a highly disputable, inconclusive blobsquatch.
Mechanically triggered standard cameras are the only way to go in my opinion. I'll have to get something rigged up and put in place out there ASAP.
Maybe this weekend I can take the SEVTEC down to the river and make the run to go pick up at least one of the RECONIX cams I have setup there and bring it back to my folks.
Flashman
Nov 6 2009, 01:49 PM
QUOTE(Dantallus @ Nov 6 2009, 02:07 PM)

Mechanically triggered standard cameras are the only way to go in my opinion. I'll have to get something rigged up and put in place out there ASAP.
Well if it's the high frequency flash squeal that's a problem, or just the appearance or smell of manmade objects, then they will work "just as good" as the other cams.
Beware of over-interpreting strange piles of nut shells until you've read up about "squirrel middens"
Dantallus
Nov 6 2009, 01:58 PM
The pecans aren't what struck me as odd. It was the fact that two stones had been removed from one of the grave sites and left on the table next to the assorted nuts that intrigued me. I have more pics to post which show them. It should also be noted that my great uncle Jo Es grave has multicolored marbles arranged in the shape of a cross on the stone. 7 of these were on the table and 2 on the ground. I knew immediatly where they came from and checked his stone. 9 stones had been pulled or pryed loose. That was spooky. I'll be askiing around the family in to see if anyone remembers gathering up the loose marbles that last time they cleaned the place 4 years ago.
As for the cameras Tex has the right approach. I really liked his camera setup and I think it can deliver excellent results. All unlce hairy has to do is step on the hidden pad
vilnoori
Nov 6 2009, 02:17 PM

Man I haven't heard such a scary story in a while. I do hope you persist in researching via cameras or whatever makes you feel comfortable, but don't give up there.
FanofSquatch
Nov 6 2009, 02:28 PM
Given the area in your opinion is a homeless person a possibilty?
Dantallus
Nov 6 2009, 03:01 PM
Highly doubtful unless they were living off the land 100%. It's feasible that someone may have stumbled across it, but I have family members that have a hard time finding it back in those woods. There are railroad tracks roughly 4 miles away that run alongside the Farm to Market road. Aside form that not really much out there.
Rex Lee
Nov 6 2009, 03:03 PM
Interesting stuff for sure. Hope you will keep us posted....
VAFooter
Nov 6 2009, 04:29 PM
Well, head out there about 1600, find a nice headstone, snuggle up to it, and....wait.
colstonewall1
Nov 6 2009, 05:39 PM
That is creepy Dantallus. I believe i woulda got the heck outta there too my friend!!! I wish I could come down there and stake it out with you, but uh, whistle, I'm a little busy at the moment, LOL!!! Keep up the good work buddy.
And Flashman, you're killin' me with that new avatar, LOL!!! I'm an Elvis Fan too. They didn't call him the KING for nothing.
PEPPERSFARMS
Nov 7 2009, 04:40 AM
The pictures of the impressions made me think of a hog rooting, the knocking, the rocks for cracking the pecans and the impression under the tent looks interesting.
ShadoAngel
Nov 7 2009, 10:53 AM
Very interesting stuff Dantallus, thanks for sharing!
Any chance you'll go back there [with a buddy or two and a gun] and stake the place out? I'd be willing to go, that location is only about a 4 hour drive from my place. Definitely not as far as Ouachita National Forest and about the same as a few of BigTex's spots. Let me know if you're ever interested in another set of eyes.
In either case, keep up the pictures. The rocks being moved around is honestly one of the weirder things, IMO. About how big are these? Is is something that a smaller animal like a raccoon or squirrel could have moved?
bipedalist
Nov 7 2009, 11:34 AM
Hogs, raccoons and squirrels don't move/uproot tombstones and place them up off the ground!
ShadoAngel
Nov 7 2009, 07:17 PM
QUOTE(Dantallus)
The pecans aren't what struck me as odd. It was the fact that two stones had been removed from one of the grave sites and left on the table next to the assorted nuts that intrigued me. It should also be noted that my great uncle Jo Es grave has multicolored marbles arranged in the shape of a cross on the stone. 7 of these were on the table and 2 on the ground. I knew immediatly where they came from and checked his stone. 9 stones had been pulled or pryed loose. That was spooky. I'll be askiing around the family in to see if anyone remembers gathering up the loose marbles that last time they cleaned the place 4 years ago.
QUOTE(Dantallus)
There are wild berries and wild tomatos growing there as well, pecans from two trees that reside there and some strangely stacked shells along with a pair of rocks for cracking them open en-masse I suspect.
QUOTE(bipedalist)
Hogs, raccoons and squirrels don't move/uproot tombstones and place them up off the ground!
I don't see where Dantallus says that entire tombstones were picked up and moved. Just marbles and rocks/stones. And he doesn't say what size they are and they aren't in the pictures. I was trying to rule out possible culprits for strange behavior before arbitrarily applying it to sasquatch. Obviously if a usual graveyard size tombstone was picked up and moved, that would definitely imply human or sasquatch activity.
bipedalist
Nov 7 2009, 07:36 PM
Yeah, I took the stones part wrong as being gravestones, but whatever moved marbles and stones enmasse? Could be coons, ravens, crows, what for?
To crack pecans? I thought there was another heavier rock found on the table for that?
Flashman
Nov 7 2009, 09:39 PM
Yep, if we're talking a max 2 inch square colored marble decorative pieces, then I could see raccoons moving them, but anything much bigger it can't be. If they were an inch square then maybe crows or magpies would come in there too.
FanofSquatch
Nov 7 2009, 11:06 PM
I have seen crows use altitude to crack nuts, flying fairly high and dropping them, but never a small rock to crack them. I know that crows used to steal these small decroative stones my wife kept in her potted plants but probably because they thought they were food. Racoons are crafty but would they use small stones to crack a nut? There is something going on there and no matter what or who it may be it would be cool to solve the mystery. Kind of a good exercise in field work, scouting the area, looking for signs, setting up some cameras and gathering evidence. Hobo, Bigfoot, giant racoon or maybe even Bin Laden.
Texas Bigfoot
Nov 8 2009, 01:41 AM
QUOTE(FanofSquatch @ Nov 6 2009, 02:28 PM)

Given the area in your opinion is a homeless person a possibilty?
Homeless people always leave trash. Actually most people with homes leave trash as well.
colstonewall1
Nov 8 2009, 08:51 AM
QUOTE(Texas Bigfoot @ Nov 8 2009, 03:41 AM)

Homeless people always leave trash. Actually most people with homes leave trash as well.
LOL. . .How true. And a good, relative point Dantillus.
BigTex
Nov 9 2009, 09:19 AM
Hey Dantallus. hope you are well. Pretty interesting stuff here for sure........lemme know if you want me to pack up a few of my camera rigs, and head your way.
Dantallus
Nov 9 2009, 09:21 AM
QUOTE(BigTex @ Nov 9 2009, 09:19 AM)

Hey Dantallus. hope you are well. Pretty interesting stuff here for sure........lemme know if you want me to pack up a few of my camera rigs, and head your way.
Sounds like a plan, I should have some time in the next couple of weeks to get out there.
Dantallus
Nov 9 2009, 09:46 AM
The stones or rocks I should say that were moved werent tombstones. They are actually border stones that encircle one of the other graves. Basically 3 or 4 pound river rocks that we brought out to the sight for that specific purpose. I shot all the pics from my Iphone, I'll try to get back out there this weekend with my 8 Meg cam and see if I can get some more detailed shots. I have always suspected that this cemetery, as hidden and protected as it is might be a spot for possible activity, especially with it's proximity to a ready supply of Axis deer raised on the game preserve across the high fence. With the bad weather here over the weekend I wasnt able to fly out and grab my Reconix trail cams, but when I can make the trip up the river I'll get them and bring them back. I'm mulling over setting up a bate station at the graveyard as well. My bait boxes have to be physically opened denoting dexterity. Anything missing from them is a dead give-a-way for primate interaction, wether human or otherwise. Coyotes will give them a go. I have watched and photgraphed them trying to gnaw their way into them to no avail when placed on the ground. Recently I have gone to suspending the boxes at 6 feet at my other sites in an effort to further elimate possible non-human interaction with whatever happens to be placed inside the boxes. I've intentionally left the graveyard alone for years, hoping to give any possible BF's in the area a reason to frequent it, but I think now it's time to get serious about keeping an eye on it again. The portico, with its wooden beams and sturdy roof provides a great spot to hide cameras or recording equipment in it's rafters that are out of the elements, and the ground under the awning is a fine powder, as you can see from the picture I posted above. However being in the open as it is I don't think a Sasquatch would prefer to linger under it any longer than needed without good reason, mainly food in my opinion.
FanofSquatch
Nov 9 2009, 10:30 AM
Take it slow, I think if you bomb the place with frequent visits, bait stations, and cameras that might overwhelm the big guy and spook him off. As much as you think it's a good spot, so does he. I wonder if the wood knocks were a signal to another "honey Im home" kinda thing then the arbor roof bang was done out of anger or territorial warning once it heard the ATV engine. Definatly interesting no matter what you find, please keep us posted.
Texas Bigfoot
Nov 9 2009, 10:44 AM
QUOTE(Dantallus @ Nov 9 2009, 09:21 AM)

Sounds like a plan, I should have some time in the next couple of weeks to get out there.
On an unrelated topic, I see you are a Marine. Wednesday is Veteran's Day, and I'd like to thank you and all the Vet's on this board for your service. I sleep quite comfortably under the blanket of freedom you provide, and I don't question your methods of providing it.
Flashman
Nov 9 2009, 11:26 AM
Can't see any "normal" critters moving 3 or 4 lb rocks, apart from hogs or ungulates maybe just knocking them a few inches out of place rooting for a bit of protein supplementation. So it's sounding more interesting.
I'm thinking homo sapiens might pick a big rock for an anvil but for the "hammer", he'd pick something about grapefruit sized, a pound or two. Unless he was making flour, then it would be more like a "double hander" flatter rock to use with a larger flat or bowl-like anvil. So those sound more like what you'd expect for single hand "hammers" for something with bigger hands.
goatman2448
Nov 9 2009, 02:47 PM
Enough cameras for a panoramic view from that awning perhaps.If the theory of BF being able to see or sense IR maybe enough cameras can do the trick being it is a concentrated area and not just a random camera in the middle of the woods on a game trail.Good luck Dantallus!
Dantallus
Dec 17 2009, 07:50 AM
I installed 2 IR game cams this weekend, one in the rafters of the arbor looking down at the table area, the other on a corner fence post with a commanding view of the whole cemetery. I'll head back out this coming weekend and see what they pick up this week.
QUOTE(Texas Bigfoot @ Nov 9 2009, 10:44 AM)

On an unrelated topic, I see you are a Marine. Wednesday is Veteran's Day, and I'd like to thank you and all the Vet's on this board for your service. I sleep quite comfortably under the blanket of freedom you provide, and I don't question your methods of providing it.
Thank you, and you're welcome. It's an honor to serve
FanofSquatch
Dec 17 2009, 10:29 AM
Thanks for the long awaited up date! Did you notice anything else odd when you went to place the cameras?
Dantallus
Dec 17 2009, 10:49 AM
It was pouring when I went out to set them up. I didn't spend much time examining the area. I did make a quick decision to put the rocks and marbles back were they belong though. I thought it would be interesting to see how a possible Sasquatch/s respond to my playing head games with them. One of the cameras has a nice view of the section of fencing that has been pulled up from the bottom. I am hoping to get something there. I thought more about the large pressed down area under the magnolia tree and I'm convinced that deer use the area to lay up in. On my previous trip the ground was fairly dry, but since it had been raining for a few days now deer tracks were easily identified in that section. With the fence on 4 sides aside from a little 6 foot gate for people to enter it's a perfect ambush area for a Bigfoot. Any deer inside have virtually no place to go other than under the fence or over the gate itself so I figure if anything at all his happening there I should get some type of image at least. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'm hoping to get back out there next weekend to check the cams. Aside from quick checks I'm not going to do anything to further disturb the area or change the environment. I made the choice to replace the rocks and marbles on the graves to give myself a clean slate and erase any preconceptions or misconceptions that might skew my ability to be as objective as possible.
FanofSquatch
Dec 18 2009, 12:29 AM
So the rocks and marbles were still there untouched from last time? You may have already scared what ever was visiting off on your first visit. I agree about not doing anything further to disrupt the enviornment there, if it is who we think it might be then any slight disturbance may spook it away. It may have been a good thing you went in the rain that will mask any scents or traces of your visit. However it plays out please keep us updated. Any plans to hook up with BigTex again?
AlbertaSasquatch
Dec 27 2009, 05:44 PM
Have you been back yet Dantallus?
Dantallus
Dec 28 2009, 09:49 AM
I have not been able to make it back out there yet with the hustle and bustle of the holidays. I am hoping to drive out Saturday though anbd replace the memory cards.
BIGFOOTHUNTER6
Dec 28 2009, 03:23 PM
Dan yout plan is well thought out and camera placement is right on.

Good Luck, and I hope you get a big grinning Bigfoot in your lens.

Curious if stones get moved again, although if they do, you should know and see what moved them...
Click to view attachment
Dantallus
Dec 31 2009, 08:22 AM
Heading out tomorrow afternoon. I'll swap the cards and see what I have as well take a good luck around the place if the weather holds out. It's been raining, cold and miserable here the last few days with some dense fog in the early morning hours. I am debating spending the night in the cemetery this weekend. I think I'll see what if anything the cams picked up before I make that decision. I want to leave as small a footprint as possible (pardon the irony) so I imagine I will force myself to stay away for now aside from the time it will take service the Reco's and observe any changes. I am very curious about the stones and marbles as well. IF the marbles have been disturbed I will be looking for ideas on how to proceed albeit gently.
VAFooter
Dec 31 2009, 11:10 AM
QUOTE(Dantallus @ Dec 31 2009, 09:22 AM)

I am debating spending the night in the cemetery this weekend.
If you do, what is the plan? Tent, open air, ghillie suit, etc?
bipedalist
Dec 31 2009, 11:13 AM
I would suggest the special Sylvanic-branded inpervious to kryptonite ghillie suit if you go that route!
Dantallus
Dec 31 2009, 11:53 AM
I still have the same Ghillie I used in the Corp. I have yet to use it in the bigfoot hunting arena though
Right now the visibility is down to 50 yards due to the fog that's sitting over our area here. Not that I could see that far in the woods at night anyhow though. It may sound somewhat strange but In my other research area I typically announce my presence by playing my 3 foot bamboo forest meditation flute. Just like Caradine's in Kill Bill. Don't get me wrong. As you well know that if these guys are around they are fully aware of your being there without having to leave a calling card. But for some reason I feel like the low, gentle melodic tones of the flute let them know that I'm not there for malevolent reasons. Just a hunch but so far I can't come up with a better way to attempt communication with them. I guess in an odd way it's my form of being courteous. I havent given it a try in this spot so I have nothing to lose. Aside from that I do my best to appear like a normal camper or hiker out to enjoy the woods although I will admit that my trusty HK-91 is usually hidden inside an oversized ISO-MAT strapped atop my day-pack. It's better to have it and not need it then to need it an not have it since I am usually alone out there. I am not a tent camper by choice. Even in the field with my Marines I always pray for clear weather so we dont have to setup our 2 man hooches. I never sleep while I am out there anyway, although I may pretend to be. Sleeps a crutch I always say. God knows how many events and details people miss prior to having an actual encounter due to being asleep. If I do stay I suppose I will pick a clean corner where the 10 foot fences intersect. That will give anything that approaches the advantage yes, but it will also ensure that I don't accidently corner the animal if it does happen to pay me a visit. It also limits my vulnerability to a cone rather than 360 degrees. If anything approaches from behind me we can see one another through the fence and that's just fine. (Not that the fence would be impassible for Biggie) but at least its an obstacle. Channelizing avenues of approach is a military tactic as well as one that many bear hunters use when building a hide. There are 2 good corners that face the awning and center of the graveyard with a game trail leading past on the otherside of the fence that goes to the game preserve and axis deer. I'll have my 7 Bravos as well as 2 battery powered q-beams. one red one white and I'll set at least one of the cameras to shoot my camping area. It's been shown time and time again in documented accounts that campfires can draw encounters. So I will build a small one and cook a burger or two and fry some bacon and see what happens. As always if I'm not back or checked in by daylight my father knows where I am supposed to be and will come looking for me. He knows exactly what I am looking for. He has seen them as well and doesnt really care to again. He goes nowhere on the farm alone un-armed, but then again he is 74 now and we have had serious problems with coyotes lately. He knows that after 100+ years of our family living on that land that if they wanted to hurt us or carry of a child they would have by now lol. He hasnt seen one in 20 years, but he still believes they are in the area due to its proximity to a National Forest and bottom-land as well as an easy supply of White-Tails, Axis, Hogs and even cattle. I agree with him else I wouldnt be putting forth the effort to start researching this new spot.
FanofSquatch
Dec 31 2009, 01:00 PM
QUOTE(bipedalist @ Dec 31 2009, 12:13 PM)

I would suggest the special Sylvanic-branded inpervious to kryptonite ghillie suit if you go that route!

I cant believe you would recommend that piece of junk to a guy heading out into the field!!! The Biscardi model is much better and works great with the Whitton attachment.
Good luck and cant wait to hear the results from the cameras.
Dantallus
Dec 31 2009, 01:04 PM
QUOTE(FanofSquatch @ Dec 31 2009, 01:00 PM)

I cant believe you would recommend that piece of junk to a guy heading out into the field!!! The Biscardi model is much better and works great with the Whitton attachment.
Good luck and cant wait to hear the results from the cameras.
Nice !!
VAFooter
Dec 31 2009, 05:26 PM
I did not see it mentioned anywhere, but what are the dimensions of the fenced-in area of the graveyard?
vilnoori
Dec 31 2009, 06:24 PM
rain and fog can be good maskers of noise and your presence. If you drive into the site you might not need the flute. I usually bring a bit of salt along as a positive reinforcement of contact or to increase tolerance of my presence, I leave it in a conspicuous spot out of the rain when I leave. Good luck!
Dantallus
Jan 5 2010, 03:10 PM
Arrived at the graveyard Saturday evening. Both of my PC 85's are gone and there was kill sign

My mother told me she had heard a gunshot not long before I pulled up in the driveway. I slung my HK 91 across my back and hopped on my 4-wheeler and headed back into the woods, stopping only to unlock the gate. It's a decent ride down a narrow pine needle covered road. I knew something was up when I saw the little gate to the cemetery was left open. I had closed it when I left from placing the cameras. I've had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach and the overwhelming urge to soundly thump someone since then. Anyway, It's always an accepted risk when you put out cameras, but it makes you a little upset when they are stolen from your own private property, especially after a poachers kill. I found no vehicle tracks in the area but I did find a few boot prints and a blood trail which I back-tracked on my 4 wheeler to an abandoned sendero 1/2 mile away. I guess the BF arent the only ones that are using this as a highway. Whomever it was it a pretty hardy poacher and pretty brazen as well. Now my whole theory about the possibilities for BF activity there is out the window since I know there's an intruder afoot. I'll have to go back to square one. I have good friends who are state game wardens that I called up and they are looking into it. I had the warranty papers at home and gave them the serial numbers to feed to the local pawn shops. After a couple of beers the three of us road the sendero on horseback and picked up the same style boot print along with a blood trail nearly 3 miles away where the easement spills onto a gravel Forest service road. So basically this person had parked his vehicle there and crossed from a national forest onto our property to poach. Maybe he realized after gutting his dear that my cameras had captured him on film and took them lock-stock-and-barrel to avoid it. I have no clue. Whomever he/they are they had a nice walk with an estimated 70lbs of vension. Where's a Sasquatch/Bear or Cougar when you need one damnit !
I do have some still photos from my Iphone that I will post. Exciting weekend, my BF hunt turned into a manhunt lol. Wish I had caught him though. I'd have my cameras back I promise.
As for my game warden friends, I went to highschool with both of them, they know I'm a "Footer" and they have never given me grief about being one although they keep their mouths shut if they know anything. I think they both know me well enough to know that I wouldnt be wasting my time looking for something I had not seen with my own eyes I guess.
Poaching is always an issue when you have land that cant be seen from your house it seems : ) My grandfather was dollar a year man, the state of Texas paid him $1 per year to be a game warden on his own property.......I wonder if that gimmick is still around these days?
BIGFOOTHUNTER6
Jan 5 2010, 03:31 PM
Sorry to hear about your misfortune Dantallus. Sonsabitches!! Your probably right about the cameras catching the poachers in action. I have been waiting to see if you had any proof from the graveyard. You should now set some Rambo style booby traps for those poachers, I think. Sorry, I just hate thieves...

May you have better luck in future endeavors, and I hope you find the culprits. Hopefully they are NOT SO SMART and will try and pawn them...
Click to view attachment
markinmtns
Jan 5 2010, 10:33 PM
Wow! That really makes my blood boil. Sounds like your the type of person that will take approprate measures to make sure those particular piece's of work never..ever...even thinks about doing that again. Whoever he or they are will trip themselves up eventually. I'm certainly not naive when it comes to what people can and will do so I shouldn't be suprised but every time I hear something like this I get all pissed off. Those f#*&er's crossed the line.
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