OK… I know I’m asking for it by even starting this thread, but I have to do it. But, let me be clear about a few things before I start…..

I’m not a Ph.D. I escaped from the ivory tower after getting my master’s in social science. My wife is a Ph.D., has taught several years and ran her own research lab at a university. But, she has also since jumped ship. We both make more money now in the private sector than we ever would have as professors (sad to say).

I’m also brand new to the sasquatch world, and am still figuring things out. I’m not a BFRO member, although I admire what I’ve seen so far from the organization. I’m just a guy who reads a lot.

I’m also not trying to show that “lettered” folks have the market cornered on smarts. The wisest person I know is my 101-year-old grandmother who never made it past 4th grade. She can spot BS a mile away, and I don’t mean Bachelors of Science. There are also plenty of folks with an alphabet soup after their name who would forget their heads if they weren’t attached to their bodies.

The reason I’m starting this thread is that not everyone is clear on what is entailed in getting a Ph.D. in the natural and social sciences. Geez, I wasn’t clear on that until I was a full year into graduate school. There are differences between programs, departments, and universities on what hoops one has to go through to get a doctorate. But, there is a fair amount of consistency, too, and it does mean something significant. That’s what I’ll try to speak to here.

So what does having a Ph.D. mean?

* At least one doctoral level professor, perhaps an entire admissions committee, thought that you did well enough as an undergraduate to be worth the investment of their time in training you. You likely had good recommedations, GRE scores, a decent GPA (especially in the field to which you applied), and maybe some research experience as an undergraduate assistant.
* You have read a mountain of research in books and journal articles and probably wrote an extensive literature review at some point as part of gaining your candidacy.
* You have taken at least two graduate level courses in statistics and/or methodology.
* You have taken several subject matter courses specific to your field and specialization.
* You were your advisor’s lab slave, paper grading machine, and lecturer back-up. You worked endless hours on research that you may or may not have gotten credit for, because your advisor covered your tuition and gave you a minimal stipend to subsist on (unless you were an NSF fellow, you lucky bastards).
* You studied and took courses for two or more years until you took your “comps” (comrehensive exams) or “prelims” (preliminary exams). These are usually all day exams that cover everything you’ve learned since you joined the program. Sometimes, they are given orally in front of a testing board. More typically, you are given a set of questions and write/type until you can’t write anymore. They are pass/fail. If you pass, you are officially a doctoral candidate and you can begin your doctoral work. If you fail, you take the exams again in a year. But, usually, failing is a not so subtle hint that you should pack your bags and find other employment. People have skipped prelims and left, because they just couldn’t take the pressure. Others have left in the middle of the exam without completing it, because it was just too much for them. Both of those things happened at the university I went to.
* You have done background research, formed hypotheses, performed experiments or naturalistic observations, collected data, analyzed results, and drawn conclusions for both your thesis and your dissertation. The process for either one of these can take years.
* Before, during, and after your dissertation, you sat in front of a group of three or four of your department’s professors and defended every last word while they grilled you to the point that you were convinced you were a complete idiot. It’s hard to be brilliant under that kind of pressure.
* You have likely submitted at least one paper for publication in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, where people who don’t know you pick apart the research that you put your heart and soul into, and then send it back to the editor with a recommendation: accept, revise and resubmit, or reject. If you are not published by the time you start looking for an academic position as a professor, it is very unlikely you will be hired by a research university. Publish or perish….
* You have presented at least once at national or international conferences where dozens of graduate students and Ph.D.s in your field listened to you present and told you to your face what they thought of it, for better or for worse, in front of many other professionals.

There’s a reason that people celebrate once they get their Ph.D., usually with lots of alcohol. Because it was really tough to get there, probably requiring ibuprofen, caffeine, and antacids along the way (as well as more alcohol). The outcome was never certain at any point.

Again, there are plenty of intelligent people without any schooling whatsoever. Heck, Albert Einstein is probably the most celebrated dropout of all time. But, I admire folks with Ph.Ds, because I know what they’ve gone through and they have certainly paid their dues… usually in blood, sweat, and tears.

Nope ...not asking for it at all.In fact if we had an applause smiley I'd be adding a few of them.I think the problem with the PHD the MD or even the VCR if thats what you want to call yourself.Isn't in the degree ,what they've been through to get it.or even if in fact their intellect or knowledge speaks for itself.the problem ,again imo,is in many tcases the presentation or the idea of infallibility they present regarding thier knowledge or interpitations.Not all obviously.But for some relating that knowledge to others has become more of an act of bludgeoning than it has an impating of knowledge.I heard a saying once that may be relevant or it may just be me rambling on late at night again.."Once a king forgets his place among those hes seeks to rule,he loses not only the right,but the power to do so..."

So that's what it means, huh? I thought it was just a load of paperwork and a recommendation.

Thank you for your words, Jim. I agree with you 100%. A little humility never hurt anybody, whether prince or pauper.

Read "Beer and Circus" that will give a good definition of what it means to be a Ph.d. in the academic world now days.

Jon

Hey Jud, Jim. I for one am glad you threw that on here Jud. First time ever seen it written so clearly. There is a fog of thought with regard to the debris one must step over, around and under to reach many goals, PHD or whatever it may be. Many people are given PHD status for their work in their career. And I dont know that the term "many" is applicable but collectively over time and in the nation, seems that way.
Best of luck to all this Happy Holiday Season in whatever your goal. Main thing is your family is with you smiling back.

& JonZ. Thanks. Theres been a lot written but the inside view stuff is especially helpful I think, it explains much of the trouble in why more people who can make a difference are unable to do so.

It depends on the area of discipline. A ph.d. in biology, or chemistry, or physiology, history, philosophy- personally I think mean something (And other related fields). Yet, there are dozens of areas now to get doctroal credentials in, and personally, I don't think they mean jack sh%t. Social work, the politically correct topic of the month ph.d., tire rotation, I mean who cares. I saw a family once, both mom and dad had ph.d.'s they couldn't change a tire. Very applicable stuff they learned.

I have an M.S. in education, you know what, the only thing it means is a better step and scale on the payroll. That's it.

Now, to apply your question to something that really matters, Bigfoot research. Very few "Doctors" will take the chance of tarnishing their reputations by becoming involved in a research project such as the Sasquatch. Jeff MEldrum is one, Grover Krantz was another. John Bindernagel is also another. But, many "doctoral" recipients you see sit on their arses , have graduate students teach their classes , screw the student of the semester , haven't done research on anything important since Nixon was president , and mostly work the system . So, when a topic like Bigfoot comes up, they rub their chins , try to muffle an advanced middle aged fart , and pontificate on how such a being could not possibly exist because "it just isn't possible."

So, that's what I think about most ph.d.'s in the academic arena. Those who actually take a chance, get a job in private industry, do research and make a contribution, I think are excellent.

Jon

Jon,

I don't have a problem with anything you said. Please note that I tried to restrict my post to Ph.Ds in natural and social sciences, but I should have put that directly into the question you quoted.

And you're right... specialized knowledge is just that: specialized. It doesn't mean that you can tie your shoelaces.

I didn't want to talk about Ph.D. professors specifically, because that's a whole another ball of wax. I didn't want to draw any distinctions between academic and non-academic Ph.Ds., or what you did once you got your doctorate. That's a debate I don't want to enter into on either side.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Well, like the squatch itself, I can't be sure, but I have HEARD, that it might mean
Piled Higher & Deeper, hehe. No disrespect to those as went & got, it's a wonderful accomplishment. But Judaculla, that first post was beautiful! (It looked like the start of a thesis...)

at broadcom, there are lots of phd's (electrical engineering). but we have a joke for it since around 30% of the engineers here have them (60% MS, 10% bs).

after 4 years you get your Bull S**t degree.
after another 2-3 your get More S**t.
then after a few more you get it Piled Higher & Deeper.

so...... they are "full of 'it'"

(in case you are wondering, i am among the 10%)

I just don't have the energy right now.

Juda

Great topic - I think it should also be pointed out that at private schools, Ph. D. candidates often pay obscene amounts of money to work this hard, and they often sacrifice a great deal in their personal lives, especially if they are married with kids while in school.


As if the process alone wasn't bad enough...

I am working on a Masters of Fine Arts in Visual Communications... I will not be going any higher. I am so tired of school, the only reason I am doing it is for additional pay and more job security for myself.

There are tons of PHDs at the company I work at, and some of them seem smart, while others don't seem to possess the sense God gave a rock. So I guess it depends on the individual.

And the school, probably tougher to get a Phd at Harvard than at 'www-online university'.

Correct, but the funny thing is, that many companies now don't seem to care where you get it as long as you have it.

I know the company I work for, which is 13000 or so employees, is like this. If you have a Masters from University of Pheonix online, it's as solid as one from Yale, Princeton, MIT, etc.. It's not because the company is bad, it's because you still do the time regardless of where you get it.

In my opinion, what I learn at school doesn't give me any more information that I can use on the job. I learn that sort of info from hands on training and certifications.

Strange world.....

Have to agree with most all that has been said... I find it funny how some of those with "higher" degrees can't find their butts with both hands yet on any given day we might put our lives in the hands of someone with merely a high school ed., maybe some college, but mostly OJT. Around here anyway most of our EMT's, Paramedics, etc. have no college degrees hanging on the side of the ambulance but if my ticker quits I hope they're there. Same for firefighters and those in the military...don't care if they have a degree just as long as they can do what they do. And police, of which I am one; I have some college, no degree, but several hours spent in training and certification courses...guess that makes me certifiable ; most of us can argue the criminal law with attorneys yet have nowhere near the level of education they have. ...I'll stop now..
[B][I]It comes down to the person!