so I have a native american friend that insists that the creature that has been around my house is a skin walker and not a BF. She has said prayers and feels that it is clearing out. She is like a Shaman. Though I am a Christian I wanted to get more info on skinwalkers. My native american heritage is Cherokee on moms side and undisclosed tribe on my fathers side.

I have read some pretty creepy stuff on the internet about the skinwalkers and it seems odd to me that I have not run across this before. As Skinwalkers are said to whistle and chirp and run on two legs as a wolf or a coyote however they can be any animal. They can be like the animal and they still posses human intelligence. It is creepy how much they are like Bigfoot in the way that they are discribed.

I thought that I would post here in adition to my internet search since it is so much like the bf in discription and because this is for cryptids. Though technically the skinwalker is not a cryptid, but a spiritual being of evil. Which would fall under the topic of shapeshifter and curses right in there with Mystic or myth and legend. The more I learn the more I wonder about the myth.

Wiki has a good write-up on it, here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin-walker

I suppose this is the NA version of the Werewolf legend in European tradition,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werewolf

Some interesting points in common with accounts of Sasquatch or Bigfoot are that they paralyze with the eyes (NA version), they cannot be killed when shot at with bullets (some claim Bigfoot fur is too dense to allow bullets through), They do not have a tail but are large and hairy, and howl.

What creature, COwatcher?? You lost me my friend, do you have posts about this in another thread? (leave it to me to miss it!!) I am very interested in hearing your story, I love this stuff. Please, please tell me!!! LOL

You say above how much it resembles B/F, instead of possibly another animal. Maybe, maybe, and this is a completely uneducated wild guess, it knows what you fear (or looking for) and that's why it resembles Bigfoot. Could possibly make sense.

I live in north west New Mexico and skinwalker harassment stories are fairly common around here. My wife retired from the sheriffs department here (with the rank of captain) and prowler calls they have responded to on numerous occasions were chalked up to skinwalkers. The few sightings the officers have had were humans with a coyote skin with the head of the coyote over the persons head but, for some reason they always get away. They also were painted up and had pouch's that they would throw a blue powder from, which after analysis turned out to be corn pollen. Why it was blue, I dont have a clue, I dont remember if the analysis found any other substance, I just remember that the primary ingrediant was corn pollen.

I know of two incidents where an officer felt threatened enough to discharge his weapon, in both cases the skinwalker ran off showing amazing speed and agility, appaerently unhurt. No body was ever found. Both of these incidents happened several years ago, back in the day when officers were still carrying .357 mag revolvers. My wife was personally involved in one of these incidents. One night the department had a shortage of officers on patrol and she was shift commander so she was running all over the county to back up officers that received calls. ( this county is bigger than most states in the northeast US). During the night the officer working south was dispatched to a prowler/possible attempted break in call (the officer was a close personal freind of ours and has told me this to my face and I believe his story, and my wife has always been a by the book officer, so I know her story is true). When my wife got in the area and was about to call the officer on the radio to determine his location she heard a shot, she took off down the dirt road that appeared to go in the direction of the shot. She found the officer standing next to the drivers side front fender of his unit visably shaken up. He stated he met with the complaintent and was cruising the area looking for the perpatrater when this man wearing a coyote head and skin stepped out in the road in front of his unit. He got out of his unit and ordered the subject to place his hands on top of his head, at which time the subject reached into a pouch hanging from his shoulder. That is when the officer drew his weapon and ordered the subject to again place his hands on his head, the subjects hand came out of the pouch clenched, assuming it was clutching a weapon the officer fired. When the shot went off the subject threw a blue powder at the officer some of which ended up on the hood of the unit. (this was the powder that was analyzed) The officer told my wife that after the shot the subject made a quarter turn to it's left, leaped over the four strand barbed wire fence and took off across the plowed feild like he had been shot out of cannon and vanished in the dark. My wife told me the shot was fired at a range of about four feet, with a 125 grain hollowpoint from a four inch barrel .357 magnum. My wife said they trained there spot lights on the field and saw nothing, so they climbed the fence and followed the bare foot prints across the field with their flash lights, half way across the field the tracks just ended. They went and searched the tree line at the opposite end of the field and found absolutly nothing. There was no blood spatter at the sight of the shooting nor any blood found along the tracks in the field. And there was no report later of someone being found dead with a gun shot wound.

Thats what happened for what ever it's worth. The officers that were involved are just as baffled as I am.

It is my understanding from my NA freinds, that skinwalkers are sent by witches (medecine man that has gone to the dark side?? I dont know) that someone has contacted to get even for some perceived wrong doing. A livestock dispute, grazing dispute, desacrating sacred ground, infedility, someone felt cheated in a trade, or just plain jealosy.

My daughters significant other is NA and they live together at his family's area on the reservation (the family housing group is hard to explain, if you lived here you would know what I'm talking about). They were having skinwalker problems last year and my daughter managed to catch some video of it on her cell phone. Obviously the cell phone video is pretty crappy in the first place and the only light scource was a yard light but to me it looked like a skinny squatch, it had hair head to toe and was way to tall to be someone wearing an animal head an skin, and no extra head is on the thing in the video.

Take it or leave it, this pretty well sums up what I know (and dont know, about skinwalkers).

COwalker,

Go with what your NA friend says, if someone has sent a skinwalker to harass you the only way to get rid of them is with a medicine man, I dont know what a shaman is in that culture, medicine man in training?

I too am a Christian. But, back in my younger, dumber days (I'm not to much smarter now!) I took some really cool pots off a mound in the bottom of a canyon when I was hunting, a hellashus thunderstorms runoff had uncovered them. Really bad things started happening to me that night and bad stuff continued to happen for the next 3 months, I finally decided it had something to do with the pots. I went to see a friend of mine who is an Acoma Medecine Man. He explained to me what I had done by taking those pots off that "BURIAL MOUND"!!! He also told me what to do make apeasement and attoinment for what I had done. I did what he told me to do and the bad "karma" stopped. Every since then when I run across artifacts I just look, admire, and be thankful I was able to see them!

Also, when my wife was with the sheriff's dept. before she was promoted to Captain, she was in charge of the Criminal Investagation Division. On three different missing person's investigations, she was contacted by the family of the missing person (Native American) asking her if she would attend a ceremony with a medecine man to help locate their relative. She agreed every time and on all three occasions she followed up the directions the medicine man came up with in the ceremony and unfortunatley they found the body exactly were the medecine man said it would be and in the position he described the body would be in! She says, if she hadnt been born and raised here, she would have considered the medecine man a suspect!

Just remember our religion is based on our faith and the miracles that we know have been preformed.

So is the Native American Religion.

I hope everything works out for you and you get rid of that hoodoo pest.

Roger

Now that is one COOL (for lack of a better word) story Roger!! Goes to show there is more to this wild, wacky world than we actually see. . .Thanks again for the story. Keep 'em coming if ya got them!

Methinks you guys have been watching too many episodes of Scooby-Doo.

RayG

Well Ray, thanks for your definitive explanation!

Thanks + vilnoori I will check that out. I did look up skinwalker and I also looked up navajo witch both articles were chilling. But I will have to check out the others.

For the last two falls now there is a creature that lurks around my house which is out in the middle of nowhere I live around five miles from town and 30 miles from society. Out in the sticks.

In the last weeks we have been hearing the sick sounding coyote again. So my son and I pulled out our guns and scoped. No intention to shoot, but we wanted to look. This thing....though we never got a clear look at it ran up the ditch into the cedars which are in the neighborhood of 15-20 feet tall Mixxed cedars junipers and pinion trees. It stayed in sight enough for us to see the brown blur that was up and MOOVIN' out. upright as far as we could tell. But it stopped in the evergreens about 1000 yards away and the evergreens started to sway at the tops I mean sway like the thing was bouncing off of them like a ping pong ball. There have been other things too.

Mostly it always starts with a howling coyote that sounds like it's sick. Or just not right. I have thought that it could be people, or a coyote hunter, but what ever it was that we have seen is HUGE and upright and it hoofs it as soon as it sees the guns come out, but being an antaganist I bought silver bullets and dipped them in white ash from white sage and cedar ash........I am a percentage Native american though I pass as white. I yell at the thing somethimes that I see it or that I know that it is there. I am a noisy person anyway. I always proclaim Christ and bless often in the words of Christ, the father and so on.......not getting religious. However I believe that God gave us the gifts of sage and even the catholics burn candles.

Now that is the brief version of the story. I talked to my friend about it and when I was told about the skin walker I about fell over when I looked them up. I did not know that dipping bullets in ash would kill a skinwalker, but that is what they say. I also did not know that cedar ash was a protection against them.

Basicly the BF and SW are similar in many respects. The SW can walk appearing as an animal completley though you are supposed to be able to tell that it is a SW because they never really move naturally on all fours. So they often prefer to walk upright. Most often they become a coyote or a wolf though they can change into any animal that they wish at will at any time day or night. So if you came on a creature covered in hair walking in the forest you would think BF, most natives would scream and run because they would see a SW.

The are said to cover ground fast like traveling as much as 200 miles in a night. (Bigfoot in Alaska the abduction story)
and they can move fast. Really fast.
They carry red lights and there are almost always atleast three of them......Red eye stories...


So many things so many. I will post more later.

That's really interesting. I've wondered about the SW/ Bigfoot connection, and the spiritual aspects about it. As a missionary kid in Africa we saw a lot of inexplicable stuff. Sounds like you are covering all your bases, COWatcher. LOL I do the same, I admit--though I'm a biologist when my kid is sick I take her to the doctor but also into the prayer room at church for extra prayer because we're Pentecostals. There is more to this world than meets the eye. All the same it is sensible to seek a natural explanation for something before resorting to supernatural ones. If I believe in something it's because I have good evidence for it or my family has. I think a lot of people are like me, probably the majority.

Thanks, I'm learning a lot in this thread. And for the record I'm still a fence sitter about the whole BF issue, I'm still exploring and collecting data.

I must say with all that I am learning about SW's I am possibly getting on the fence and crossing to the other side. I had no idea about any of this though I have heard about SW's through out my life in one place or another. Now I am questioning what I have actually seen all of those times I have had encounters.

I am fairly familiar with the res. I have known people that have lived there and people that have lived all over New Mexico and Arizona and Utah. Some indians some half and others not at all. But they all knew the power of the native cultrue and the native beliefs....or understood Is what I mean.

Thank you for sharing this with me. I am consumed with learning all that I can. I have been on the internet looking up tons of info and many other stories similar to your own, but from the victims perspective instead of the officers are all over the place.

More similarities to the BF.

SW's are said to be able to read your thoughts. They are said to be able to know what you think. And they are said to be able to cast a spell of fear and dread on you.

Many Bf encounters speak of having unrelenting fear or unreasonable fear as if it is projected on them.

The SW is an indian Shaman or medicine man that has gone evil. Or is evil. A navajo witch. They are said to get their powers from one of three acts. Killing a relative. Performing necrophelia. Or Incest based relationships. They are usually initiated by grandparents into the group. Yes groups of them come together to cast spells and whorship in evil. They are considered the blackest of black magic. That is what I gather from my research as all of the stories are similar. From the group they choose who will skin walk usually three of them. They also gather to perform necrophelia, incest, and to cannabalize.

Reminds me of stories from Canada where the French called the Sasquatch the Lupe Garu. Because it resembled the werewolf. The Bigfoot was said to be a person that was native that became the beast because it ate human flesh during times of starvation.....made even worse if it was a related dead person. These indians hid there children from them because they feared the BF coming and taking the children.

SW's are said to eat children, use them to make brews of curses and grind their bones to a curse dust.

They are said to wail like children cry like babies, speak in a perfect mimick voice of a loved one anything to convince a person to go outside or into their grasp.......Many BF stories in Native culture and some on the boards say the same about BF.

The stories of them are most prominent in the Navajo culture. However the stories are spread through many different tribes including Ute and Hopi.

One discription I read likened it to the Norse werewolf. Which was the perfect pairing of HUMAN Intelligence, with animal power or strength. Yet another debated attribute of BF. Human like intelligence.
But unlike the Norse legends of the werewolf the SW's can change into an animal at will day or night. They drape the skin or pelt of the chosen animal over them and through magic transform into that animal. There are three phases. The human phase where they are human the changing phase where you see them as human wearing the pelt and the animal phase where they appear as the animal that they wear the skin of.....though there is usually a way to tell as they are not real animals. It is said that if you call them by name and then say that they are a skinwalker in the changing phase or the animal phase that it will cause them to be very sick and that they could die as a result, but it will break their magic.

So the power of the SW is very different from the powers of the BF. It is said that the BF has a flat ape like face. But the SW who usually transform to coyote or Wolf....has a snout. And Ears and a tail......Where BF has none.


I am sure that I have missed a few. If you think of any add them. How they are the same or how they are different.

Or if you have any stories that relate to the SW please add them. Thanks COwatcher

I recently discovered a form of malnutrition common in the north in older times, appears to be a form of "rabbit starvation" due to lack of fat and associated vitamins. The windigo psychosis appears closely related to this condition, as the sufferers would withdraw into themselves and get an insatiable hunger, which with mental deterioration would frequently turn to cannibalism or thoughts of it or attempts at it. When the caribou, moose, musk ox etc had had a poor summer and were lean in the fall, this condition became particularly likely over the winter. One of the native cures for windigo psychosis was to administer lots of melted fat to the afflicted person. If sasquatch are a real species similar to man, it's possible that in these same winters, relying as they did on the same half starved game when the forage was poor, they also developed this condition and as a result hunted men.. thus giving rise to the legend of the Windigo, when in fact they also were suffering from the "windigo psychosis" which was a result of diet/malnutrition. It's further possible that people of Europe/Scandinavia, likely in isolated mountain areas became ill from this same cause in harsh/lean winters, and the victims would hallucinate they were turning into a vicious and ferocious creature also, but this time the wolf.

Thanks flash.

I have heard kind of what you are saying before. The whole myth and the legend behind the belief. To see someone go phycotic like that is scary.

With SW's though they believe that they eat human flesh as part of a ceromony or ritual. Willingly.

For me the idea of the past and myth and legend are one thing. But the evil of man is totaly a nother thing. Not all people are evil, but we certainly have the ability to be that. To be tempted by starvation is one thing too, but to willingly and wantonly consume another person is also still in current modern culture a huge taboo.

If you look at the Sereal killer I can't recall his name Dammer maybe. And several others. The greatest fear of them was that they ate human flesh. It turned them at the time "historical" pure evil. And in modern times it is still reviled as an act of pure evil. Soul damaging

I really do believe that we are not humans having a spiritual experience but Spirits having a human experience. No matter your religion that is a statement that rings true for most of them. Though in the generations of freedom of religion we have the athiest so maybe they don't feel that way.

The idea of having sex with a corpse also is a huge taboo. Dirty and filthy. I will not go further.

But the one that caught me off guard because it is a social norm in many budding civilizations is not just incest but child molestation. That that act was thought to be on par with eating the dead! Wow. I think that it is horrid that incest occurs and feel that it is a horrible sin.....But so far it is funny that the cultures of places like Norse or Germanic tribes, Middle eastern tribes and really curltures from around the world have had similar taboo's and greater soul damaging sins as those of the Native American peoples.

And I do not find shock in the fact that evil is evil no matter the global position. And that that evil is what would turn them into beasts. I just wasn't ready to see all of the stories about shape shifting witches to be so similar to the stories about bigfoot.

Wow! COwatcher, bizarre story, anything else?

I read Knapp and Kelleher's book a couple of years ago and because of the book, looked as far as I could into NIDS involvement. While there isn't much in the way of information because of their apparent security issues and who knows what else, it is fairly obvious that this group of scientists were involved with this phenomenon and because of head honcho Robert Bigelow's interest, are more than likely still involved. Which leads me to believe that there's more to this story than most are willing to look at.

Stories of the fantastic aside, I think cryptozoology may have stumbled onto a topic equal to the PGF debate. For whatever side of the fence you may be sitting on, probably won't matter to the scientists involved at the ranch. I haven't done an actual head count but it looks to me like NIDS has employed more scientists at the Skinwalker ranch than the PGF has ever had even remotely interested. Interesting to be sure considering the amount of time that NIDS has apparently been involved and the evidence required by science to even remain interested. I guess it will boil down to the integrity of the scientists involved with NIDS when it comes to belief but I think there are things similar to reported ranch activity that are still as of yet undiscovered. But what do I know? I believe in BF!

Cheers

LOL! If you're name wasn't attached to this post, I STILL woulda known it was you Ray, LOL



Thank You. . .Ahh yes, I do seem to remember you posting about this, but I had forgotten.

Your more than welcome, I wish I could be more helpful but, I just dont know that much about them.

The only thing I can add is that the fact skinwalkers are out there is common knowledge around here, even with the Anglos and Hispanics (I'm Anglo but have really good freinds from all the ethnic groups and tribes that live here).

For example, when a few people are at a social get together around here and some one said they saw a bigfoot in the head lights last night they would be razzed unmercifully with comments about what they were smoking. On the other hand if someone said they saw a skinwalker in the headlights last night, people would start asking where and what time?

That just the way it is in the four corners region.

Roger

I think most here are just not ready to believe in Shapeshifters and that sort of thing an undiscovered species is one thing but Shapeshifters is quite another. Maybe there could be genetic conditions and maladies that may make people sort of look and even behave in an animal behavior fashion but actually shapeshift into an animal? No!

Wow, never heard of Skinwalkers, thanks for sharing, they sound very creepy! Although it would be amusing if one was being chased and it got so flustered that when it got to the tree line to shape shift it accidentally turned into a whale... DOH!

Just to be clear, I'm not making fun of the topic or experiences, it's just the way my mind works

Cheers,

Kraig

Excellent account, NewMexRog! I have a question about the incident that your wife was at, was the skinwalker naked or clothed, if clothed, what was it wearing?

My wife is Dine', or Navajo as they are commonly called. I've heard many stories of skinwalkers. It's important to note that there is a difference between squatch and skinwalkers in Dine' Culture.

But, certain authors have confused the two. I discount the wendigo as being sasquatch for this reason until I can confirm it personally with the tribes, as the stories I have read make it not out to be a hairy giant but more of a zombie like cannibal.

But stories of sasquatch as a man-eater or monster base this more on the nature of the animal. Skinwalkers are motivated by personal vendettas, hatred, and jealousy. Some encounters, like on the road, are accidental, but if it's at your house and concentrated on your home then it is a personal thing that you need the help of a medicine man.

The word shaman actually comes from Russian, Tungus, Tocharian, sanskrit, and Prakrit and has been used to describe a person who is able to communicate to the spirit and use supernatural abilities to heal or other uses. Though the medicine man is the equivalent of that it is a much more commonly used term for Native Americans than shaman, though it is used occasionally.

I'm going to give yall some leeway with this one but be careful with the religious aspects, ok?

Sorry I was just trying to draw the correlation of how 'evil' this is supposed to be and put a broad spin on the religious back ground of human kind in a world wide fashion. The deadly 'sins' or taboos that it is rumored to have to be broken to be a skinwalker are things that based on science would destroy human kind. There is no religion in that totally backed by science. But our ancestors used religion in what ever belief to connect that to their spiritual belief and to life. That in my opinion is not discussing religion and I appoligize if I offended anyone.

Incest would stop the family in a few short generations. Necro. is just gross. And Canabalism.....well there is that protien disease that comes from eating your own protien type.....In short it will or can kill.

All of these things can be linked by science as deadly to humanity....and our ancestors the world over knew that. Same as DNA exists in hair and fingernails.....

Honestley I had never heard about the skinwalker ranch until being on this board. I read through the post about it a little before I posted this thread to be sure that I was not asking the same questions. The correlation between BF and SW's is very apparent. I have never been one to believe in UFO's though. Never seen one.....maybe if I had seen one I would be all ready to believe. So anyway I do not know much about it. Thanks for posting.

Thanks wolftrax. I could not tell you the difference between sasquatch and a skinwalker in native american culture. I have native blood a generation or two removed, so I did not grow up in a native community and sadly I am not one that most natives would share stories with. I am white and My moms family was Cherokee. That would not hold any weight at the Navajo,Ute Or Hopi reservation.

The whole concept of the research came from my friend who is native and who said hey you said that last year and you are having bad luck this is a skinwalker not a bigfoot. That is what made me start to look into skinwalkers. She has one of those uncanny abilities to tell you where you left your keys even if she has not been in your house for a year. The person that does not have caller ID but knows who is calling every time the phone rings......I am sure that she misses sometimes. She was actually going to be my mother in law, but he got into drugs and we split up.

I did not mean any insult to the Native American culture by calling medicine men Shamans.

Well I'm pretty sure I've heard that a type of deep demonic possession can result in a person in a cult taking on the spirit and features of an animal and even changing into one, by the power of the demon. As you said Cowatcher in our traditional belief system the demons and angels have the ability to change shape, in the holy writings they are described sometimes in animal and sometimes in human form. I've even seen this in dreams, for whatever that is worth. So I guess they just confer the ability on the person they take over. I don't think it is necessarily confined to NA peoples, and perhaps that is where the whole werewolf thing comes from in European tradition. I bet its a vestigial or cultural memory that has sort of mutated over time and retelling. Silver bullets? Nah.

Ya Ta Hey, Wolftrax

Good to hear from you again!

I could not remember all the details of how the skinwalker was dressed from what my friend had told me about the incident all those years ago, so I had to ask my wife if she remembered the details of what the SW was wearing according to our mutual friend (I am trying to avoid using names here, there was an official report filed since an officer discharged his weapon, but he has long since retired also). Asking the question got me in a little bit of hot water with my better half. I had forgotten that one of the visual sightings of SW's by officers and the SW got away that I knew about had happened to her back when she was still a patrol officer. (OOOPS, BAD HUSBAND, at least I remembered our anniversary this year and her birthday, I guess thats good for something!)

Anyway, after the brow beating I had to take, she told me the one our friend shot (and obviously didnt kill), the one she saw, and all the reports she had ever read were consistant about dress. All the subjects were wearing a fully skinned coyote hide, upper head intact with lower jaw removed, legs and tail still attached and hanging. A pouch hanging from the shoulder by a strap. The only thing else they had on was paint, no foot wear, no nothing. The night of my wifes run in and the night my friend discharged his weapon it was damn cold too.

I know there is a difference between SW an BF in the Dine' culture, I have a standing invitation from some Dine' freinds of mine to come to their camp in the Chuska Mtns. when they butcher sheep in the fall. They keep telling me I should come and check it out (bring camera only, which I will respect). They tell me BF come down after dark and steal meat off the drying racks on the first night when the meat is still raw. We keep having scheduling conflicts, butchering time coinsides with hunting season on state land. So, I am either out trying to put some meat in my freezer, or help a friend put meat in their freezer for the winter. (I dont guide profesionally anymore). I hope I can get up there next fall. To good of an invitaition to keep passing up.

Wolftrax, Thank you for clarifying/reinforceing two things I stated in my original post on this thread: 1. Shaman, I know what shaman's are in other cultures but, never heard the term in the Four Corners or North America for that matter. 2. You repeated what I said in my 1st post, the only way to get rid of a skinwalker is with a medecine man.

COwalker, go to a Medecine Man.

Roger

As it is mentioned that cannibalism is apparently a requirement to turn into a skinwalker. I can't help wondering if there is a prion disease involved here, akin to kuru or CJD. There are apparently many forms these can take, and white man science is only just discovering them. Since these diseases cause neurological and physiological changes, I don't think it would be outside the bounds of possibility that there is a form that makes the "sufferer" immune to pain, able to access "hysterical strength" (Where the brain normal limits the number of muscle fibers in use at one time) and typical of these diseases are vivid hallucinations and psychotic behaviour. Anecdotal support for this would be the historical belief in many cultures that eating of an enemy can absorb his strength.

A possible indication if this is the case, would be if there is a long period of "apprenticeship" to be a fully fledged skinwalker as it were, since the prion diseases that we do know of generally take several years to develop.

Then also outside the bounds of accepted science, there is the speculation that humans have "filters" that make direct experience of the supernatural or spiritual difficult. Various cultures have traditional methods of defeating these filters, wholly or partially, and some people appear to have weaker filters than others. With a disease that makes neuronal changes, it could be possible that these unknown "filters" were affected, in the same manner that they are held to be temporarily defeated by the use of altered mental states through trance, meditation, herbs or drugs. Thus I would suspect that if there's any answer in this "white man science" idea of prion disease, it may only be partial, and older wisdom may be proved truer in the end, if we but understood it fully in the present.


Flash.

Yes I have read that and heard it too.

I doubt that silver would do much either, but as a kick I bought silver bullets for the guns.....I thought that it was funny and have joked about having silver bullets outside when we have been scoping or the like. Or target prctices.....Just the kind of morbid sense of humor we have. The sage.....I have saged or smudged our guns. I have always done that weather it was a gun or knife. But that is a spiritual belief that I will not get into here.....LOL

I know that there are shapeshifter stories from all corners of the globe. Most of them relate to them being evil. Not to discuss the religions of people of the planet, however when I researched the jin or geenies years ago I found lots of shapeshifter stories the only one that I found that was not considered evil was the one from Austrailia Aboriginal culture and it was about a boy that learned to shapeshift to save his people. He sat by a fire and prayed every night and his religious experience was the gift of changing......though there may be other versions that I did not find it was the only one that was not considered evil by it's people.

Yeah I think that it is interesting that breaking a Human law, as oposed to a spiritual law is the requirment.

I heard a theory once that the first people of the earth, you fill in what ever name you want to give them. Lived in a time when it was possible to be human and animal or to procreate as all humans were was all of the animals put together. And that something happened in Evolution that changed that ability. DNA maybe changed to fill in the blanks and become more concrete. A truer form of human evolved and that that is where our ancestory starts. That because those strands were completed and the connection to the animal ancestory that made up the human genome was broken and now humans were humans and animals were animals.

Most of those Human laws break the chain of DNA and evolution. How can you evolve if you go backwards.

I heard that from a teacher and it had nothing to do with shapeshifters, though it sorta fits. It was a what if class.


And what in this world is scarier than a Human with a predisposition to do evil acts and the ability or strength of an animal? Out of that could be born religion. Interestingly all across the planet the theme is the same in historical regard.

Thank you flash for posting what those diseases are. I have heard about them, but could not remember exactly what they were.

My biggest impression when I began to research the Skinwalkers was how much they were discribed much in the same way as the Bigfoot are discribed. That was shocking as if it were possible (again my science fiction mind) how many people faced with one would know one from the other. Obviously the Native Americans lived side by side with the bigfoot to some degree. And they had beliefs that the skinwalker existed among them, or could. I would say that they as a people would know the differences and I hope that those stories and related tales are not lost in modern culture.

Maybe a list should be made of BF characteristics (from witness accounts) that would be non-skinwalker:

1. great height
2. feeding a baby, children present, family groupings
3. non-threatening behaviour, eg, Patti walking away calmly
4. eating, consuming things that humans can't eat (for example browsing on the ends of twigs)
5. big footprints, long stride, narrow single file, non-human footprint characteristics
6. ability to traverse steep terrain that a human couldn't, at increased speed/ease
7. ability to live in extreme weather and environment for long periods of time

etc.

No, not at all, sometimes native people do use the term shaman, I've heard it used to specifically mean a person's spirit leaving their body and going into the spirit world and then coming back with information or medicine.

The only reason I brought it up, is that you want to be careful when seeking somebody to help you, if they start saying they are a shaman be very wary as this isn't the most common term, but for those not in the know they use it often.

But for what you are looking for, and your friend can help you with this, is a medicine person. You want somebody you can trust, or somebody that you trust to have a medicine person they know. The reason for this is that, though there are real people that can do amazing things and take care of the problem, there are also fakes as well that may try to swindle you. A lot of times these people will say "I'm a shaman" without knowing the true meaning of the word, or very little understanding of what they are doing. A very recent example of this has been in the news lately here in AZ, a tragedy where a person presumed to do ceremonies that he had no idea what he was doing, charged a ton of money for it, and a few people died.

Thanks, NewMexRog for the reply. It is interesting to hear actual police reports of the skinwalkers, I've heard all kinds of stories of sightings and of course the latest gossip, but nothing so definitive as what a police report offers.

Agreed.

I expect this post to close this thread.....Sorry if that happens. My friend contacted a medicine man on the res. A good man that she has known and he agrees with her that it is indeed evil. Not at all a bigfoot. And that there is a family type curse. So he gave me a ceremony to complete and wants me to go to the res as soon as I can. But he preformed a ceremony to clear them a little and funny thing is that since that ceremoney the place calmed down. That just leaves the ceremony that I have to complete for my family at my home. Then in the future near as possible a trip to the res. He was resonable in price as well.

So it appears that it is not a bigfoot.

I post for all of those that might wonder, we are okay and we are protected. Thank you for posting here and thanks for offering what you had to the tread.

If this thread stays open and does not get l;ocked down, then feel free to post all that you know about these types of things. I plan in the future to write a book making all of my supernatural experiences into science fiction of coarse.....and I love to look into this type of phenomenon. Though I understand that religion is a hard topic, sometimes to understand people and to understand the creatures that they believe in we must look there to grasp at the straws offered to come to conclusion. In no way do I ask for a discusion of a religious nature, only offer my thanks to this board for allowing this thread to live as it did.

And tho this is the crypto page, I would love to hear how the SW's are different from BF's. because now that is a question that will burn in my mind. At this point I am not certain of anything that I have seen and totally certain of other things that I have seen. I have a greater understanding of the depth of hatred and what it can do to people.....sadly. And in that I will wonder a long time as to what and which time I saw what.