I'm confused. did you not just say that your goal was DNA two posts back?

Loudly stating that your goal is to get DNA-with-a-knife, indubitably puts a damper on hoaxing activity from within the camp.

Thats a fair question. The only reason for the 'don't copy this to other forums' stipulation is that we have had instances in the past - specifically the Melissa v Tube situation - where half the conversation was taking place here and then people were going off to other forums to continue argueing - when things blew up, it was the moderators HERE that took the blame for stuff that wasn't even posted to this forum. Already the MRP discussion spilled out over to JREF, and already I've had pms from people telling me I should be moderating people based on what they said on JREF, so in an attempt to facilitate a fair and balanced discussion, we are asking people to discuss it here. If they do choose to discuss it on JREF (or anywhere else), all we ask is that they keep that conversation seperate from this one and not mix the two.

That's fair enough & understandable, thanks for answering.

Wrong. <?> If you are trying to maintain a low profile in your presence somewhere, and you have a high probability of knowing who took them and the background behind it, AND you're trying to maintain a profession relationship with someone who doesn't need MORE grief in their lives, WHY WOULD you report them being stolen? I spend HUNDREDS of dollars a month just doing my 'research' especially because of the travel. While I *wish* they hadn't been taken, it's part of the unfortunate cost of doing research. I'lll live with it. I'll replace them... big deal.

They were MINE. It was MY choice what to ultimately DO about them, and since we're not only dealing with a "land-owner", family, extended family and all, my BEST CHOICE was to let it be delt with internally withIN the family. I don't need a forum to decide for me what to do about MY personal property and how to deal with how I handle awkward situations.

I've got to say that this argument that the MRP guys must be hiding something because they didn't report the 'theft' is one of the silliest I've heard.

I've had stuff stolen on several occasions where I simply couldn't be bothered to notify the police, and my wife is an ex-police officer! What would I do? Report to the police that a game cam has been stolen? "Where did you leave it?" they will ask - "strapped to a tree waiting for bigfoot" would have to be my honest reply.


Honestly, I wouldn't want to file that report - would you?

Are you saying that someone withIN the family took your game cams?

Were you asked by the family to not call the police?

No and No.

But by all means keep reading into it what you want to. It's what you seem to do best.

I mean for Pete's sake. Keep asking the same question over and over until you get an answer you want. But I'll tell you straight up now, you're about one more dumb, already answered question from ending up on my ignore list and then we can see how content you are to continue if everyone else feels the same as I do. Which I suspect is getting closer all of the time.

Really Paul?

If they were stolen by Trespassers, don't you think the owner would want to file a report, maybe they'd be stealing cars next?

If they were stolen by Bigfoot, then I can see not wanting to report it.

If they were stolen by whoever was hoaxing me, I'D DARN SURE REPORT IT, unless the owner convinced me to do otherwise.

Guy in Indiana says this


Does that not seem that he is letting the family deal with the stolen camera issue?

Not to try to derail this thread or not let sleeping dogs lie, but when I quoted things from off forum and brought them here, they had both evolved from here and were confirmed by the person writing them here, much the same as if the person had written an article or book and statements were addressed here. And though I did feel that the author of those words should have been held responsible for them, especially when she confirmed and repeated what she had written at another forum here, I felt the responsiblity or blame for her actions rested on her alone and not the moderators here. Some of your moderation and Administration staff can confirm that.

Unbelievable...

What's that Drew?

In fairness to Drew, I could see why he would perceive contacting authorities would be appropriate if valuable game cams went missing, but I agree with GII & Paul here 100% based on our own experiences. Some of my guys here in the PNW have lost recons (which aren't cheap as most of you know) and it's an unfortunate part of doing business, but is always an understood risk before placing them that even in some unlikely places they can be stolen. I know a lot of game cam missing incidents over the years..... most, if not all them, likely stolen or confiscated by humans, hunters or forestry/Ranger personnel, and have never heard of any researcher contacting authorities to file a report for various reasons....many which guy covered.

Please don't. This thread is for discussion of the MRP - nothing more.

Can I post audio recordings that might be similar to the MRP recordings for comparative data?

Maybe start a new thread SY, but then give us a link to check it out.

Don't worry, I wouldn't think about detracting form this engaging discussion on whether Drew was allowed to shoot or stab a hoaxer...

This does sound as if someone in the family is suspected of being responsible for the missing gamecams. I'm not sure how else to interpret it, but am open to explanations if any will be given.

Now thats Funny

This whole thread has nothing to do with the recording except a few and most has to do with who knew what at such time .But good work

Does Drew have a very big knife?

I wonder. I wouldn't want to charge a BF with a little pen knife, but that might be enough to deter a hoaxer. Heck, a hatpin would work well for that! I got stabbed by one of those once. It really hurt.

1. No alcohol
2. No hatpins

You may interpret the statement as best suits you. Yet again, it's not relevant to the discussion of the sounds, and how I or the group deals with those we're investigating or working with, is our responsibility. We, *I* delt with it at the time it occured, and none of the recordings presented were made near or around the time of "The Great Game-Cam Caper". Gad-zooks!

I posted it here for everyone. Post #24


http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...mp;#entry565229

SY.

edit - redundant now with new post above...

I guess I'm more concerned about the gorilla suit and the part about the LO (or whoever) saying in front of you that he burned it.
You have to admit that if you knew he had a gorilla suit (no matter the size or color) it looks funny to outsiders. It's a flag and if you were on the outside looking in I'm sure it would look funny to you too.


It sounds like it but I'm not sure why you're so snippy about it. I don't know the circumstances and unless you or another MRP member responds publicly to her public accusation nobody else does either.


Seems fair and if you give your word I wouldn't expect you to say anything you said you wouldn't. I was only addressing Drew and Angie's remarks.




No I hadn't noticed and it sounds pretty bad if a basic premise like that is thrown out of the window just because your circumstances have changed.
It still has meaning to me and it has meaning to most of the rest of the world too.
If you mean it has very little meaning to you then that is your opinion only, not that the phrase has lost meaning to everyone...because it hasn't.

The phrase is the reason? No it isn't. I'd say it's more the infighting in the bigfoot world, of which I was a willing participant. Maybe that's what needs to be addressed instead of pointing fingers all over the place.
It seems you are saying you're joining the "blame the skeptics and the armchair researcher" crowd. There is a difference between mining for information and asking questions about things that have been publicly stated or presented.
I'm still not sure what you guys are or were thinking either now or when you published your website with the sounds on it.
Didn't you realize that you would be questioned or that people who you've made enemies with would do everything they could to discredit you?
You can't be prepared for everything when you do something like that but IMHO you could have been a bit more prepared for most of what has happened.

I guess I could say the same.

Those aren't tactics, they are simple courtesies in my opinion.

[bolding mine]
GII, I have no purpose to suit at this point since I don't know the answers to the questions I've asked. I'm just looking for those answers, nothing more (yet). Please don't interpret my questions as a criticism, other than that which pertains to the spoon-feeding or withholding of information necessary to formulate educated opinions. I'm doing my best to be impartial unless/until I have reason to be otherwise. The way the info is being withheld is a red flag of its own, and none of my questions have placed the landowner or his family or location in any peril of discovery.
If there are valid reasons for withholding some of these details, maybe it would be easier to explain those reasons in lieu of revealing those details...? There are so many unanswered questions in this thread that it's almost impossible to form an opinion on these sounds. These questions DO pertain directly to the recordings and their validity.

At some point you have to ask yourself how you would react if you had been reading this same exchange with different principles involved.

LOL, I know I've used this analogy before in another thread, but DAMN, this is more complicated than the Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy theories. . .Just cannot get into it. Too much bickering for me. . .And that's not a shot at anyone, it's a shot at all of ya.

Uncle Sam stole the cameras!

I asked something similar as you did. I was confused as to whether or not that meant I couldn't link to threads, but I was told that is ok. Just thought I'd mention it in case someone else was wondering about that.


As for the sounds, most sound human to me.

At least Southern is trying to post sounds that may also sound human in nature. JMHO, when the first original thread began I was hoping that others would come forward also instead of the "Cluster F" that this has turned into.

"Seriously" does anyone really know what a Bigfoot really sounds like? There's quite a few interesting sound recording's out there but no one capturing what's making them. It's all speculation.

I don't believe it's too far fetched that these things can have an anatomy that somewhat resembles our own. Human sounding "does not rule out" what made these sounds.

I was hoping that the focus of this thread was going to be about the sounds. But instead it seems to be more focused on emotional constipation, beating the same dead horse with the same accusations.

Please keep this on topic - I know that there are disagreements but if a question hasn't been answered the first 4 times you ask, don't ask a fifth, or sixth, or... well, I'm sure you all understand.

Please limit your questions to the issue at hand. No personal attacks will be tolerated.

Please - someone please explain how the grassy knoll fits into all of this.

Care to fill us in on what type of suit it was then? Obviously there was some type of suit due to the recent admissions. Anyone seen this "suit"? Why no mention of it?




Under what circumstances did the cams disappear? Did you find evidence of humans taking them? Was the group present at camp during the time they went missing?

Such drama... very high-schoolish.

Paul1968UK, could you please post a summary in a new thread when it's all over?

Thanks.

While I totally agree with you gigantor, obviously what is being discussed is important to some of the members here. To each their own I guess.

Ummmm, how the hell can I make this post about the recordings??? I thought they were inconclusive. Coulda been a human or a sasquatch. There.

Oh, I don't object to it at all, I just don't want to read all 50 pages which are surely to follow, so I'd really appreciate a very brief summary after it's all said and done.

Thanks.

Hi

Can we do this maybe ~ ? Let's try and just focus on one question for the time being, The Gorilla suit seems to be pretty popular right now so why not try and get that major question out of the way ~

You guys have to get some coordination between your selves and help out by keeping focused, Too much is going on .

Peace
Tim

I appreciate the effort to keep this thread to one issue at a time so I'll comment on the gorilla suit. I have never been told anything about one nor did I ever see one. The only suit, if you can call it that, was a raggedy old thing that I was shown by the LO himself, hanging in one of the outbuildings. As I recall, it wasnt much of anything. Cant say what material it was made out of cuz I did not go and examine it. It resembled something similar to a burlap bag with straw attatched to it. Perhaps a MI member could substantiate that....if they can remember it of course.

Another issue with suits though, is that there is info that I have knowledge of which would make me suspicious of there possibly being other suits present at one time or another. Yes, I can definitely say that I wonder if the LO has now or ever owned any suits.

I do feel strongly about defending myself as well. The below quote and my response:




As I said in a PM that was accidentally sent to me, I listened to some of the LOs equipment and asked him how he created the sound affect that I heard. He stated that he had it looped. Maybe my understanding of looping is wrong. Maybe someone can clarify this for me. Is looping sounds a form of manipulating them?

Jim, I dont understand how you can accuse me of lieing about something when you were not even present when this occurred. How do you know that the only sound system he had was a crappy stereo? Again, you were not there, not just not in my presence but also not on the property at all. In fact, werent you still in Florida at the time? So how could you know anything about what I am saying and furthermore, accuse me of lieing about it?

Yes I profess knowledge of the area. My grandparents had a place within 20 miles of this property and I have very fond memories from about the age of 3 yrs. old til about 16 yrs. old. I am very familiar with the surrounding area and spent many, many hours exploring woods, rivers, roads, communities, people, etc.

Again, Jim, you were not present when I visited this specific property so who are you to say anything about what knowledge I have and what I dont have. How do you know what I explored or what I witnessed? As I recall, NightOwl, not you, was my canoe partner when I explored some of the river. There were many instances where I was with other members of the group, the LO, my daughter or just by myself. Never in my time there, were you ever present. So, how can you make such ridiculous claims about me?

ALL of that was talked about in the 'first thread'. I also told you in a previous post about it. (again) It's all that I'm going to say on the cams for the reasons stated.

*edit* - for clarity

I'll assume by your statement:


That the source was human. The important question that you're nor answering about it is was it taken during the groups visit there. If it was taken while the group was gone, the implications could be quite different. However, I accept that is all you want to say about it.

I hope you or other members of the group will decide to address some of the other outstanding questions regarding the "clear tracks and trackways" which could help the veracity of the audio recorded.

Would be nice to have the alleged "suit" issues cleared up too. Leaving those things outstanding only alludges to negative connotations.

In the first thread you did not say that you decided to let the family handle the missing game cams 'Internally'.

Did the family encourage you not to get the authorities involved?

why the actual sound seems very explainable, the drama......

I would think a track or trackway would be easier to fake than a call blasting vocabulary. It could be done at the hoaxer's convenience and would not require him/her to stay out in the woods in the wee hours just to pull off some BF fakery.

Angie, why didn't you mention the "suit" you saw hanging in your last appearance?

Angie says she knows something which would make her "suspicious of there possibly being other suits present at one time or another", but can't reveal that information. What's the point in even discussing it, if all the facts can't be laid out on the table? If the main players(the members of the MRP) can't discuss it due to confidentiality reasons, then what's the point in continuing to refer to it?

Also, I am not "flaming" Angie with what I'm about to point out, nor am I making light of her incorrect spelling of a word. The only reason I bring it up is that I feel it is very important when it comes to establishing credibility.



Some people just can't spell when it comes to the word "lying", but I know Angie can from her correct spelling of the word in an older thread -



Bolding mine.

So, I'd say she's probably got someone coaching her. The person I'm referring to has been "seen" using the incorrect spelling on many occasions. I hope I'm wrong.

When someone says they have a looped recording to me, I interpret that to mean they have a prerecorded sound on a sound file and it replays the same sound over and over. This is not the same as altering a sound in pitch, adding reverb, splicing, clipping and mixing to create something completely synthetic.

SY.

A "looped" recording is easy to distinguish. A rooster may sound like it's making the same crow over and over, to us, but anaysis will show subtle differences. Anyone with the right equipment, could go over the sound files and find something that repeats in an exact form, like a looped recording would do. If an exact replica were found to be several minutes, hours, days apart, or even years apart, that would be the smoking gun. No matter how one can try, you can't make an exact replica sound natually. There's a project for someone.

Good idea GH, but that would require ALL of the recordings, and the group has already stated that only a fraction of them are posted publicly.

Just to be clear, please, for the record, tell the forum if you are saying

"There never was a gorilla suit"
or
"Drew never was told there was a gorilla suit"


Nightwing, were you there when the landowner or Nephew, told me he had owned a Gorilla Suit?

Drew is it possible this burlap bag with straw attached to it is the suit the LO was talking about? Hence the specification, not actually a gorilla suit as we would know it like a Morris gorilla suit, but instead a crude makeshift home made suit that wouldn't fool anybody? Maybe that was why it was never mentioned, as it was not considered a candidate for what the MRP members saw?

No, I specifically asked him about a Gorilla suit. I don't know what she saw, unless it was someone's Ghillie suit. Or a scarecrow suit, made out of burlap or something.