http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/spiritlake.htm

Now, I cannot believe there was not paperwork filled for this case. It would be interesting to read the exact forensic evidence regarding Mr. Carter's sudden movements and investigators thoughts on the incident. I have to believe they still exist in some cold case file storage area.

If there were ski tracks heading down the hill - and something was supposedly pursuing the skier - logic tells me that whatever was pursuing him (unless it was flying) should have left tracks as well.

"We combed the canyon, one end to the other for five days. Sometimes there were as many as 75 persons in the search party, but no sign of Carter or his equipment was found," Lee says.

I can't help but think that some sort of physical evidence of sasquatch - such as tracks - should have been found by such a search party. That is, of course, if they were actually there to be found.
Another incident without any sort of tangible evidence laid at the foot of sasquatch.

Maybe they like it that way.

Maybe it wasn't pursuing him? Maybe Carter just saw something that made him terrified and he just took off to get as far away from it as possible but it never went after him....just as with per most sasquatch reports.

An interesting account that is admittedly not worth much.

And thus the legend of the Thunderbirds of Ape Canyon was born...

Nice.

and


Hence, why I think examining the official records of the case would be extremely valuable.

Reading the story it hits me, Who says they did not find track following the guy ? It says
" Lee said he had never seen one of the monsters, but that there certainly was evidence "that there was something strange on the high slopes of the mountain." He was convinced of this during the search for Carter, he said."
Sure looks to me like they found something while trying to find the guy.
Then it says
""Dr. Otto Trott, Lee Stark and I finally came to the conclusion that the apes got him," said Lee seriously."
Humm why would they jump to the apes got him without something pointing them that way ? I say they did find tracks or at least something when looking for the guy that pointing them to a Bigfoot doing it.


And for all of the people that think Bigfoot is just a harmless critter I just love this part,
"Lee, who has lived in the Northwest most of his life, recalls there are about 25 different reports of people attacked by "apelike men" in the St. Helens and Cascade areas over a 20-year period."

Yeah, and unless this is all a hoax, there has to be paperwork and notes from a lead investigator. Something must have scared the living crap out him, it may not have been near him (hence not an "attacking ape". Lets be honest something doesn't have near you to scare the living daylights out of you! I wonder what police group investigated the case and the via a FOIA request possibly get a look at the files.

Somewhat related, I think it might be a good idea for researchers to try and get police reports filed about Bigfoot or Sasquatch, I doubt there is anything revolutionary in them, but it may bring and add further evidence into the field. Still, when was Jim Carter's disappearance first reported in the Bigfoot field? In cases like that there will always be paperwork and as researchers we should try and examine it.

Your right in this case chances are some paper work some place was filed on this case. But if you think every case would have paper work your way off on that. You might be shocked to know a lot of "paper work" never gets done for many reasons. It could be the person was just lazy or it could have been they thought it was a joke both cases there chances are no paper work could be found.
If it was out right Bigfoot related I have no problem saying that chances are no paper work will be found on it. If it was done I would bet that someone down or up the chain seen to it that it would never been seen again.
I worked with law enforcement for years (I was not one but worked with them) and had to do a report on anything little thing that happened. yet every now and then if it was something they did not want anyone to know about I was told that I should not do the report. I even watched as one went into a shredder one time when I did one anyway. Now was it a cover up ? well yes and no. Some times it was so minor that a report was not really needed yet other times it was something they just did not ever want anyone knowing. If you do not think that happens every where your dreaming.

Oh, I don't doubt that one bit, I just feel there must be some police records with bigfoot material in them. Most likely not a lot. However, in this case I cannot believe, there is not some sort of paperwork around somewhere.

Without speculating on what evidence might be tucked away in some dusty file or evidence box, is there anything connecting this story to Sasquatch other than pure speculation and the location of the incident?

Weird things happen, and it's fun to speculate, but when there are plenty of mundane explanations out there, it's probably wise to take stock of them first. The photographer could have panicked for any number of reasons. He may have had a hallucination, a psychotic episode, who knows...

And a body not being found in a location like that is not really terribly surprising.

Thats the thing no one really knows. Hence why I would like to take a look at the official files. The files may list a more logical conclusion. However, because the story had passed already the reasons never became public knowledge.

http://squatchdetective.com/

Check out about 50 minutes in. Granted its Ian not Lan . Now what area was this case handled by? Plus if your bored feel free to listen to me at about 9 minutes in

Another problem is that record-retention policies dictate that old minor cases be deleted after five or seven years--something like that. Perhaps, if and when records get fully computerized, the old stuff will stick around.

But even computerized corporations delete their old records nowadays, on the advice of counsel, so that nothing untoward can arise "out of the past" in response to a discovery order to bite them in the butt. They can say, "Sorry, those records were deleted in accordance with our records retention policy." Possibly some or most police depts. have the same idea.

True, but it was a major case (they never found him or a body), so I suspect paper records were just eventually filed away in case something turned up.

Let's hope so. I have in the past made posts suggesting that photocopies of police reports, because of their hard-copy nature, would be more impressive to skeptics than ordinary "anecdotal" evidence. And I've suggested in particular that a book or DVD devoted solely to encounters of policemen with Sasquatches would also be more impressive than ordinary anecdotal evidence. (There's a catchy title too: "Flatfeet meet Bigfeet.") If a researcher wanted to cut a new trail, make a splash, and maybe make a buck, this is the best way to go I can think of.

(PS: Other credible official-types, like forest rangers, could be squeezed in too.)

Boy - you are sure putting a lot of faith in one man's recounting of an event that may be exagerated.
The follow-up turned up nothing newsworthy - or at least no-one has produced the newspaper accounts. I really think that if anybody could have corroborated what Lee said - such as the scoutmaster or one of the other searchers - it would have made the news. If any confirming quotes were available - given the sensational story - the newspaper would have reported it. Sensational sells!
Since this guy was making all sorts of wild speculations in the newspaper story - I have absolutely no doubt that he would have been more than happy to lend credence to his account by telling if they found tracks. Why would he leave out such an obvious "proof" to his story?
The only reason is because if he reported there were tracks found - it could be contradicted by others who never saw them.
This story is just filled with wild speculation and "feelings" - nothing substantial that anybody can contradict or prove true or false. The man went missing. Everything else is just speculation.

This just sounds to me like somebody hyping a story to get his fifteen minutes of fame.
Twenty-five other accounts of attacks in the area over a twenty year period??? That is more than one a year!!! Sounds like something that would have gotten a lot more press and official notice than it obviously did.

If any relevant "paper work" were to be found I think you would see an investigators notes saying that they contacted a certain witness and what they witnessed. Since there was no actual sighting of a suspect human or animal I doubt any investigator would find that information viable and worth noting. Most investigators have to weed through a witnesses emotions and speculation to get information based on facts, which is what builds a case not the witnesses theories on what happened. Now this does not mean the investigators would not necessarily check out what the witness may claim but I doubt they would document false leads.
Also we need to remember the capacity of search efforts in the 1950's I'm sure they were inadequate and sporadic at best.

Two cents

Guys I think you misunderstand my goal. It's not so much to find a record that says Killer: BIGFOOT, but to report the accurate and true investigation of the case. Jim Carter's disappearance is often lumped into some (key word) Bigfoot studies due to its location near Ape Canyon. There may be evidence of a slip which caused his erratic movements in these reports. If anything we should know more facts of the case to perhaps finally eliminate this from the realm of Bigfoot studies or to at least properly place it in the realm. Removing "evidence" from the "canon" is just as important as adding it. Truth be told if this case has anything to do with Bigfoot, it would be that Mr. Carter saw something that scared him enough to make erratic judgments. Honestly, being scared of anything can produce this not just Bigfoot.

So is anyone willing to help me with this?

The first goal is finding what jurisdiction the case was under.

I wonder who on the list would be the best to contact first?
http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/04contact/

If this incident happened within the last ten years I would say it may be worthwhile. I don't think this particular instance is worth the endeavor. With all due respect to past investigators most of their skills relied on people and little forensic information. I think any information gathered would be fruitless because any statements you found could hardly be corroborated by witnesses. Oh and then there was the eruption which may have changed the landscape of possible "scene". Too many variables and too much time has passed to validate this claim.

I understand, but I think the historical record may at least give some more background. This isa story I've seen reprinted in numerous BF books and that only has one news article published 13yrs later as their source. I want to establish if Jim Carter even existed or if the story may have been more like the Jacko incident. It just begs for more evidence even if it is only paperwork and not conclusive.

GF: You'll probably have to do it yourself. It's scary cold-calling officials the first time or two. But you'll get into the swing of it. I think you're right that there may be good stuff. Even if not, it's worth knowing for sure that there's not, and putting that on the record, so we have one less loose end to fret about.

(Hmm--that "less" should be "fewer"; but it's more awkward-sounding.)

Oh that doesn't worry me at all. I've called tons of PR and film companies to get screener copies for my website and such, sometimes getting bounced around to 5 different people and then having to call back, but I get my stuff in the end. .

I'm happy to contact the authorities, I was just wondering If I can get any suggestions on who to contact? Thanks for your support though, you hit the nail right on the head as far as my goals.

Ian, I applaud your tanacity. Go get 'em!

Thanks However, can anyone give me suggestions on who to call. Such as Federal and State and Local who would have had jurisdiction over the area of Ape Canyon where Jim Carter disappeared in 1950. From there I'll start making some calls.

Ian,

Ape canyon is a part of the Gifford Pinchot National Forrest. Perhaps that area's Forrestry Service could tell you who has/had
jurisdiction?

I was figuring thats the place to start. I'll shoot them in email later tonight.

Ian, I tried to get into Ape Canyon last Sep. Never made it due to the roads being washed out. The closest I could get by jeep was still about five miles away. In talking to the folks down at the GP headquarters there didn't seem to be any damage from St Helens but a lot of flood damage to trails and roads. So it is probably a lot more remote that it was. Due to lack of people. Google Earth gives a good overview of the canyon. I had quite a file of people and telephone numbers that I had talked to while trying to gain info. Most of them worked with the GP National forest and were pretty cooperative. Will try to dig the file up and send it on to you. I may try to hike in again next summer as the snow is falling now and it's not a good spot to get caught. Lots of history concerning the canyon.

Raven,

Thank you very much. I'll wait on your info first, before I call. No rush though. Its not like any info is going anywhere.

If you are looking for law enforcement records, also try the local county sheriff's department.

This may be it-skamania county sheriff

this is common.

once as a kid i was taking out the trash at night and swore that some one was trying to catch me. i ran so fast that forrest gump would be proud and thought the whole way home i heard the foot steps and felt the fingertips of the person trying to catch me. infact as i entered the house i screamed for my dad in such a tone he pulled the weapon he always carried and prepare to deal with whom ever was behind me. he said he knew by the sound and tone of my voice i was running from danger. no one was there.


this is common in kids adults who dont evaluate what triggers the fight or flight response and just haul ass to anywhere but there.

I don't know if there is a thread on this already or not, but if so, go ahead and merge this post with it. It is regarding the case of expert skier Jim Carter who set out to ski in the Ape Canyon area of Mt. Saint Helens, in Washington State in 1950 alone (probably not a wise thing to do). He did have companions with him before he set off solo. After a short while, Jim came up missing, and his companions went and searched for him, but found no trace of him except for a discarded film box and some ski tracks which made it seem as if someone, or something, was pursuing Carter. The tracks ended at the edge of a steep cliff, where it seemed as if possibly Carter skied straight down the side. No trace was ever found of Carter, even a search at the bottom of the cliff proved fruitless. It led the searchers to conclude that "The apes got him." My guess is they most likely knew about the 1924 incident, and that is the reason for the ape comment. Did a group of Sasquatch creatures prey on Jim Carter and frighten him to the point to where he took outrageous chances to escape them, then took his body away never to be seen again? We may never know.

HMMM
Thats intriguing. With all the reports ive read I have never read or heard of a bigfoot actually killing a human. Ive often wondered if some sudden or unexplained disapearences in the woods or mountains could be atributed to Squatches but unless you witness it for yourself its just gonna be hear say and conjecture
p.s
I just remembered the President Rosevelt story about the 2 trappers and one was supposed to have been killed by one. Rosevelt believed in its authenticity so its possible it could have happen. Would be very interested in reading more reports on this subject matter if anyone can point me in the right direction

Look up the "Chetco Indian Devil" story online, and check out the archives at the International Bigfoot Society. Lots of reports of agressive, even deadly BF.

I would certainly have to say this is one of the most interesting of all the bigfoot stories I've heard. In reality its much like a mystery inside a mystery. Jim was an "expert" skier so the chance of him just vanishing because of his own mishap is slim (although not completely out of the realm of possibilities). Infact I believe I've read somewhere before that eventually it was just taken for granted by those searching for Jim that the apes truly did get him and it was just left at that. Its a great story to help ape canyon seem even more captivating. I do wish there was more on this story, although I'm sure the searchers did they're best to find Jim, it would be great if there was some evidence still at the site to lead to one conclusion or the other. Either way great story again bf2004

KTB, any evidence from the 50s that might've been there likely was destroyed when Mt St Helens (where Ape Canyon is) blew in the 70s.

He may have been an expert skier but a terrible outdoorsman. If he encountered a problem in the woods which caused him to be immobilized, his expert status wouldn't do him much good.

Chances are better of him breaking a leg and starving to death than being killed by sasquatch.

Not a very good campfire tale, but one that is probably closer to the truth.

A. I'm assuming that the tracks that told them he was being pursued, were ski tracks, probably disqualifying Bigfoot as the pursuer. As no other medium other than a snowmobile could keep up with a down hill skier on skis.

B. I would assume 'The Ape's must have got him' was in reference to the name of the canyon.

May 18, 1980.

Wonder if Mountain Dew was popular then?

This story has all the makings of an urban legend, and a pretty ridiculous one at that.

No names of the searchers are given, no actual tracks are mentioned explained, it's just vague enough that it could have been any of the writers of sasquatch books or articles that made it up.

I've been skiing since I as 3 years old. "Expert" skiers do injure themselves and die. My grandfather was a leader of Wa state SAR and was one of 3 men who brought SAR into the scouting system. Never, in all the years he searched for lost people, did he conclude "The apes got him." If he did, if this had happened as written, the other searchers would've looked at him and busted out laughing. It's that much of a bad line from a B-Movie and totally unrealistic.

I'm thinking of a new X-Game Event.
Downhill Sasquatch Ski Escape.

The Beep Beep Beep noise, you start out of the gate, next to you the Sasquatch is released, you have a Dead Rabbit clipped to your back, you have to beat the sasquatch down the hill.

Style Points + time = final score.

I've read this story, but I'm not sure how much credence we should give it. One thing's for certain, if there's any truth to it at all (ie. did someone named Jim Carter actually go missing in this time period), it would be s simple matter of someone in the area checking some old microfilm to see if the story ran in the local papers.

Yah, and all those stories have been proven completely true!!!!!!



not


I have said it so many times that I am making it my new sig line.......


RW

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=20702

Recent thread from October 2007 where the discussion focused around if there were a police report filed.

I have merged these topics into one big ball.

hey tugboatwa everyone wow very interesting new thread indeed very informative.. good afternoon bill