Thanx Mulder for keeping me on my toes . I had forgotten all about the eruption and the devastation it caused. Although I was speaking more along the lines of wishful thinking as opposed to actually believing there would be left over evidence after all these years anyways. Still a great story even if a little embellished.

KTB

"He jumped over two or three large crevasses and evidently was going like the devil." When Carter's tracks reached the precipitous sides of Ape Canyon, the searchers were amazed to see that Carter had been in such a hurry that he went right down the steep canyon walls."

If bf could keep up with a skier like this, I'd be impressed (and would want to know the brand of ski's used)(and would encourage all backcountry nordic and helo skiers to beware ), if the skier panicked and died with the collision with canyon walls and then bf partaked of the remains, less so,. I assume an avalanche was not created which would have covered him, and this is not a glaciated area, right?, so seems maybe he (Mr. Carter) should have surfaced someway?

Does anybody have an idea of the geograpical location (can you find it on Google Earth or a map) where this incident supposedly took place? Might clear a few things up if you could pinpoint where it happened. And yes, I realize that the topography has changed since this "occurred".

Click to view attachment

Here is one view with relation of volcano crater to ape canyon trail (green hiker symbols), looks like its in the fallout of MSH as maybe has been discussed already?
Now where on this greenlined trail it is I might need some help with to tell if the canyon itself is obliterated?

Ape Canyon can be seen above the trail. The canyon stretches between the white dots to the east of St. Helens.

Just re-read the account, and the only landmark mentioned is a place called Dog's Head at the 8,000 foot level. Can anyone pinpoint that? That should give us a pretty good starting point for his route, if it is still there.

Not the question he asked...he asked if there WERE any more stories out there, not whether or not they were true. All I did was point him towards stories of agressive, dangerous BF. Those stories have as much or as little chance of being true as any other BF story.

Well, two things come to mind: One, the eruption has certainly obliterated Mr. Carter's final resting spot and any remaining evidence that could've been used to solve the mystery of his disappearance such as his skis finally showing up. And two, the entire tribe of infamously pissed-off BF that once inhabited Ape Canyon are most definitely gone now too. Even if the boy scout troop members could be tracked down, they could only, at best, support the possibility that a group of anti-social BF actually inhabited Ape Canyon at that time and could not speak to the mystery of Mr. Carter's disappearance. And finding an old file in some dusty warehouse somewhere would only satisfy our curiosity around whether or not tracks were observed. Well, I strongly suggest that if anything as substantial as large hominid prints had been discovered in relation to the ski tracks, it would be so disturbing that I somehow doubt the searchers would have forgotten to mention them in the subsequent interview. Search and rescue people by definition are trackers, especially back in those days, and a set of tracks would've been a very big deal to them, particulaly if they had resembled a bear's or a man's. That kind of evidence wouldn't just be a side note to the search results. Saying that, nothing says that the BF didn't somehow make their presence known in a way that left no physical evidence but scared the life, literally, out of Mr. Carter. We will never know for sure. So why speculate?

Regardless of our musings on the limited evidence left to us, this story is so old, and the eruption at MSH was so completely destructive that the idea that Mr. Carter was a victim of a BF attack can't be substantiated OR refuted, either by modern-day forensic means or the undertaking of a follow-up BF expedition. So it must remain, forever more, an unsolved mystery. And any attempt to solve it would be tantamount to being able to prove or disprove the Ostman account, which also had no second party witnesses nor forensic proof and all potential physical evidence is long gone by now. We only have one man's words on paper. That's not a lot to go on.

That's my take.

Is that an offer to defend Sasquatch from these spurious allegations? If you do, don't let him drink bottled water at his press conference.

Point taken.

Apes-shmapes. I think it was...

Yup, I think he's hitchhiking around the galaxy as we speak.

Sam

Have we already eliminated all of the "possible" conclusions? Why don't we knock those out first before we start blaming, rare, undiscovered primates.

Would he have been skiing down the MSH side of the canyon or on the eastern side? The east side looks relatively intact from what I can tell.

Yes - the defence will show that it was a werewolf.
Or a dragon.
Or both.
And he was framed.
Either way - we still get paid to defend our client - the poor misguided moose....umm,errr....I mean sasquatch.

It always comes back to "billable hours" doesn't it?

In August of 2004 I climbed the Ape Canyon Trail - read about that day HERE. To the west of the trail is a Lahar, but the area to the north and east of the trail seemed to suffer minimal damage.

Thanks Mulder I will check into that

I may have followed Carter by paralleling him so no tracks would be found by the ski trail. Then BF made the attack at a good spot. I've read many reports of BF following people but not right on their trail but off to the side. If a BF got Carter it probably tried to leave no tracks. However, my guess is Carter went way off course, died, and the scavangers scatterd his bones all over.

Below is a story of BF leaving faint tracks.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/
now click on Idaho

Hey all,

Wish I could report some new information, but I've been really busy with law school and my upcoming wedding in August, however, if there are still those interested in it, I can give it a try.

This was the 50's Not much in the way of forensics. If the police were involved they were involved as searchers and unless there were signs of foul play most likley no reports were written. I'm in law enforcment. Back in the day, especially in rural ares, reports weren't takin unless it was a big case. Even then it would have been writtin in the simplest of terms. Just enough to get by with. Comprehensive report taking came about relatively recently because of the FBI's statistical gathering (pain in the ass). Newspaper accounts would prob. be the best place to start. That and surviving witnesses



This was the 50's Not much in the way of forensics. If the police were involved they were involved as searchers and unless there were signs of foul play most likley no reports were written. I'm in law enforcment. Back in the day, especially in rural ares, reports weren't takin unless it was a big case. Even then it would have been writtin in the simplest of terms. Just enough to get by with. Comprehensive report taking came about relatively recently because of the FBI's statistical gathering (pain in the ass). Newspaper accounts would prob. be the best place to start. That and surviving witnesses




This was the 50's Not much in the way of forensics. If the police were involved they were involved as searchers and unless there were signs of foul play most likley no reports were written. I'm in law enforcment. Back in the day, especially in rural ares, reports weren't takin unless it was a big case. Even then it would have been writtin in the simplest of terms. Just enough to get by with. Comprehensive report taking came about relatively recently because of the FBI's statistical gathering (pain in the ass). Newspaper accounts would prob. be the best place to start. That and surviving witnesses

Sorry bout that! Laptop went nuts for a minute

Priorities!!! It is all about your priorities!!!

It got lost in translation I think… but revisiting the Mysterious Encounters episode featuring a trip down into Lava Canyon, near Ape Canyon, was working on the theory that either the 1924 or the 1950 episodes involving Bigfoot there may have left evidence on the steep sides of the canyon, where researchers in the past may not have been able to go or search. The north side of Ape canyon is not straight down and something falling over the side could easily have gotten caught up in some rocks or vegetation and stayed on the side of the canyon. This is not where search efforts of the past took place. They looked at the floor of the canyon. Due to budget constraints ME never went to Ape Canyon and so filming was done at Lava Canyon and really only for show.

The idea was to lower a video camera into spots where evidence could have been hidden away for years. I think the idea is still good but I would do it a little differently after having seen the problems and results the show discovered. I would send one or two people down to the bottom of Ape Canyon with a zip line and return rope. They would have to do this on the north side of course. Then a camera would fly down the side scanning as it went down to the canyon floor much like what can be seen on televised football games sometimes. The camera would be hauled back up and the line moved east to a new transit line and repeated. Think it would take about week of hard work but a crew of four could pull it off.

If a Bigfoot was shot and killed and then fell into the canyon, there could be a skeleton, picked clean lying on the canyon side… then again it just may be Carter’s. Wonder if the skis would still be usable?

Still looking for a crew to attempt this.

The Longview article is loose about attribution of statements. It does indicate Mr. Lee has/had some knowledge. I think I would try to find someone who actually took part in the search......someone who actually saw the ski tracks and where they ended.....and then assess. The distance from Dog point to Ape Canyon covers a lot of land. Exactly where the tracks were last seen may make a huge difference in possibilities. I know the area and have been on the Plains of Abraham when it was covered in heavy snow and when it was bone dry. Two entirely different worlds with entirely different possibilities. Same with Ape Canyon. In the summer, it's scary vertical in spots, but in winter, not so bad.

I told Gfanikf that I'd look into this last year but I spaced it out until today...sorry!

Here's some interesting stuff I found while searching. I know there are some other stories already posted in the Historical Archives thread.

Seems it was Joe Carter? 18 or 32? That might help the searching...

I like the stories about the Ladies Auxiliary carnival having a "wild man" booth and the monster grizzly with tracks the size of a hat, that stole food and they wouldn't shoot.

tirademan

Only to be salvaged for the purposes of constructing a cross to mark his supposed eternal resting place maybe.

Tirademan, you always come up with the best stuff! I love old articles.

Hi

I am with ya on that


Peace
Tim

Don't worry I did too, thank you so much!

Looking at that last article, isn't Harry Truman the one who refused to evacuate before Mt. St. Helens erupted?

Yes...sad, but still cool, er Old School...but in 1936 when that article was written, they were probably at the top of their game having fun, fun, fun in the Mountain Sun, Pre-WWII sort of...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Randall_Truman

tirademan

hey everyone WOW... those are great above old articles indeed. gm bill

Tirademan,

Just wanted to thank you again, these articles, especially the missing person article should be of great help.

Man I was almost finnished with a really long and detailed post yesterday for this thread and the computer died and I lost it all. Darn. I hate it when that happens. I guess that when I have more time I will reread everything and then try to remember what was so important that I would stop lurking and actually post.

lol, COwatcher, happens to the best of us

The story is just too old, but the BF attack is simply speculation--I would say that he probably had an accident and simply was a victim of his own error in judgement.

I agree it's possible, but the story is always mentioned as pseudobigfoot encounter, and there are never any details given. It might as well be fictional, I just hate the lack of info, even if its not connected to Sasquatch in the least. It is just one of those things I could never stand when growing up, the brief mentioning of a tantalizing story with nothing more than a two or three sentence summation.

The story where some skier high up on some mountain in Wa. separated from the group because he wanted to ski a different route by himself and was never seen again, they said his tracks indicated he took off down the mountain like he had been sacred and was trying to get away from something and people speculate sasquatch, but I've never read anything about any any creature tracks in the snow, that doesn't make sense.

Just his tracks and nothing else? Sounds more like he was either running from a flying creature or some kind of phenomenon such as a landslide or some meteorological event?

I dont' know about an avalanche but it seems they would have been able to tell if that happened. Located the story on bigfoot encounters.


Ape Canyon Holds Unsolved Mystery

© The Longview Washington Times -- August 1963

SPIRIT LAKE, Mt. St. Helens, Washington -- Ape Canyon, the legendary home of the Hairy Apes of Mt. St. Helens apparently swallowed an experienced mountaineer and expert skier in May 1950.

No trace of Jim Carter, 32, who disappeared from a 20-member climbing party from Seattle was found, although teams of the Northwest's most proficient mountain rescue units combed the area for weeks.

"Carter's complete disappearance is an unsolved mystery to this day," declared Bob Lee, well-known Portland mountaineer who is a member of the exclusive world wide Alpine Club, a leader of the 1961 Himalayan expedition, and adviser to the 1963 American expedition.

Lee said he had never seen one of the monsters, but that there certainly was evidence "that there was something strange on the high slopes of the mountain." He was convinced of this during the search for Carter, he said.

"Dr. Otto Trott, Lee Stark and I finally came to the conclusion that the apes got him," said Lee seriously.

Lee, a member of the Seattle Mountain Search and Rescue unit at the time, describes the hunt for Carter in Ape Canyon as "the most eerie experience I have ever had."

He said that every time he got cut off from the rest of the searchers during the long hunt, he got the feeling that "somebody was watching me."

"I could feel the hair on my neck standing up. It was eerie. I was unarmed, except for my ice ax and, believe me, I never let go of that." At this point in Lee's story, I could feel my own hair standing up a bit.

Ready to shoulder packs for a safari to Ape Canyon to try to determine whether there is any truth to the ape stories, I began to feel a little dubious about the whole expedition. The rest of Lee's tale about the Seattle man's disappearance didn't do much to reassure me.

It seems that the missing man Carter had climbed Mt. St. Helens with a group from Seattle on a warm, clear Sunday. On the way down the mountain, he left the other climbers near a landmark called Dog's Head, at the 8,000-foot level.

Carter told them he would ski around to the left and take a picture of the group as they skied down to timberline. That was the last time that anyone saw Carter. The next morning searchers found a discarded film box at the point where he had taken a picture.

From here, Carter evidently took off down the mountain in a wild, death-defying dash, "taking chances that no skier of his caliber would take, unless something was terribly wrong or he was being pursued," says Lee, who was one of the first searchers to reach Carter's ski tracks.

"He jumped over two or three large crevasses and evidently was going like the devil." When Carter's tracks reached the precipitous sides of Ape Canyon, the searchers were amazed to see that Carter had been in such a hurry that he went right down the steep canyon walls. But they did not find him at the bottom of the canyon as they expected.

"We combed the canyon, one end to the other for five days. Sometimes there were as many as 75 persons in the search party, but no sign of Carter or his equipment was found," Lee says.

After two weeks the search was called off. Lee, who has lived in the Northwest most of his life, recalls there are about 25 different reports of people attacked by "apelike men" in the St. Helens and Cascade areas over a 20-year period.

One was a group of Boy Scouts from Centralia, he said. Couldn't we check on that story? As near as he could remember, several of the boys who were taken off the mountain were hysterical after being attacked by the "ape men."

Director Dick Whitney of the regional Boy Scout office in Olympia, Wash., promised to look for a record of the incident. To our surprise he called back to say that he had located the name of the leader and the troop involved in the incident. "It was a troop under the late Scoutmaster Pease from Centralia, “ he said.

Whitney promised to have Pease’s son, who works for the State of Washington call THE JOURNAL as soon as he returns from vacation.

Miners, scouts, Indians, mountaineers and most recently an editor and other reliable Portland residents, the list of persons who have seen the Hairy Apes of Mt. St. Helens is very impressive.

© The Longview Times, 1963

I'm trying to convince myself that BF exists. These types of baseless stories are not helping. There are too many things wrong here. I thought BF was gentle and never attacked anyone at all or at least not on a regular basis yet this stories claims that there were over 25 cases in one area. Another thing wrong with the story is (if someone really did disappear), just think of this poor guys family. I'm sure they want to hear that he was attacked by a Bigfoot. Sheesh . If these types of stories are conjured in order to get people to believe in BF,.... they don't. They have the opposite effect. I think they turn many more people away.

But....
It is a cool story around Halloween time or when told at a campfire. Other than that..... sheesh

There are more than a few stories of BF trying to grab or take someone, or thumping the sides of campers and homes, or stalking. If it perceives you as a threat or you do something to piss it off it is liable to do anything. This is why I would not be out looking for BF armed only with a camera. BF is not some passive storybook beast in some enchanted forest. It's just an animal and will act accordingly in the wild.

My 2 Cents - Maybe this guy did see a BF as he stopped to take a pic. It rattled/scared him so much that he took off willy-nilly down the mountain trying to get away and the BF just ran off in the opposite direction. It is odd that they never found his body or even so much as a ski or a pole.

erm.......Okay

1 "maybe" down
25 more to go
Maybe 25 people cornered the same BF and poked it with a stick on 25 separate occasions. I heard they hate that.

I was wrong. I guess this story did have an effect.

I believe you are referring to the Seattle case, Posted below you're post.



More than likely.

Well I certainly wouldn't use that story to try and convince me of B/F existence. Why this is mentioned in the same vein (my new favorite word. I think I spelled it VAIN yesterday, LOL) as B/F, I have no idea. Anytime someone goes missing anywhere, anytime, ya might as well say Sasquatch got 'em. It's definitely more fun that way.

And by the way, I'm not 'jumping' on anyone for posting this story, especially if you had thought it was B/F related. It IS fun to speculate sometimes.

Read into the old stories about Bigfoot type encounters and you will learn a lot more about it. The native Americans for the most part feared it and had many stories about them attacking and caring off people.
It seems some parts of the US has more aggressive animals then others when it comes to Bigfoot. The south seems to have a more aggressive animals then he north. Maybe it is a sub species or something I am not sure.

I think it's the heat, humidity, skeeters and gators. They certainly make me more aggressive.

Very well could be. The heat here in Florida this year could drive anything crazy

Trying to convince yourself that BF exists is much easier with some good fortune (or bad?)? so good luck with that eh. If you haven't serendipitied into BF yet, quit complaining! You're simply one of the majority that either hasn't, won't or doesn't want to. Statistically you are probably much more likely to be killed by bad Halloween candy shaped like BF than see BF and that's only if you are out looking for him!

The fraternity of any that have are treated, yet again, to the rantings of a sane man! Thank god!!! And thank you Furious!

Cheers

Edited for my inability to spell. What do you expect?... I've seen Bigfoot!

hey everyone that story still interest me for alot differant reasons.... will there ever be a follow up investigations to it

Haha yeah okay.

I heard there is a killer squad of BF's living on rooftops in the Bronx. Hikers are missing and so forth, old Native American accounts, sharp sticks and such. Now it's fact because I said "BF". I believe in BF so anything with the word "BF" must be true. Don't forget to add this story to the database.