Simon Winchester recently (2008) wrote a book "The Man who Loved China" about Professor Needham of Cambridge University who intensely studied the history of science and technology of China. On page 128 he mentions Needham's trip to the western hinderlands of China, Jiayuguan, that was more or less at the traditional border of China. According to ancient Chinese tradition those exiled from China (The Celestial Empire) were exiled west of this point.

According to page 128, to be exiled beyond this point "was to suffer a dreadful and unimaginable fate in a land of monsters who had red hair, drank milk,had eyes in their ribs, and wailed in perpetual pain."

Juvenile sasquatches are usually reported as having red hair, the adults being dark brown or black. They are perceived as monsters. Their necks are much curved forward such that the head seems to sit at or below the shoulders (eyes in their ribs ), are reported to suck cows, and of course, wail hideous howls. This seems enough like the quote from Winchester's book that it might be a reference to an ancient literary reference to bigfoot in that somewhat mountainous area.

None of this proves anything. It is just interesting and as such is more explicative of ancient Chinese literature than it is of bigfoot itself. I'm learning Chinese script these days.

"According to page 128, to be exiled beyond this point "was to suffer a dreadful and unimaginable fate in a land of monsters who had red hair, drank milk,had eyes in their ribs, and wailed in perpetual pain."

That perfectly describes a western person:
Red hair: only caucasian races had red hair, could this represent a depiction of White People in China?
Drank milk: I'm sure the Mongols did this, drinking mare's milk, but so do caucasian and other races....
Eyes on their ribs: Could these be buttons or other clothing ornamentation being mistaken for eyes?
Wailed in perpetual pain: or just non-stop talking !?

You be the judge! Just my .02

AussieAussie

Aussie, that was my first impression. The red hair especially, being part of the genetics of the " aryan race " going back several thousand years in that area. The milk part is interesting. Might have been a taboo in ancient china when that was written. Most of the tribes of the northern lands, drank milk as a staple. Yeti with eyes in the ribs, is a bit much. Don't think anyone would have written such, describing a hairy monster, other than an enemy tribe's clothing. There may have been a cross referencing, that being the red haired tribe were spawn of such Yeti beasts, hehe.

That sounds about right Aussie Aussie. I heard this a few decades ago so I might be wrong but I think it's an insult in Chinese culture to call someone a "red hair". It refers to them being the offspring of a foreigner. Which is shameful. It might have something to do with that. Anyone hear of a Yeren reference with eyes in it's ribs before? Pretty scary imagery.

Good call, they may have drank Yak milk as well?

They did have a group of white people that lived in western China. Some of the mummies had red hair. I seem to recall they had a western style of weaving yarn. The TV show about them also mentioned the felt hats that looked like witches and speculated they might be related to the origin of the hats being associated with witches. According to the wikipedia, they made strange sounds when they talked and that could be the wailing. It also mentioned Austria. Could yodeling be that old?

I thank all of you for your responses and reactions. One point worth mentioning is that translation of Chinese characters is seldom precise. Some of the characters indicate only the gist of the meaning. Thus eyes on the ribs should be interpreted very loosely. Your comments about red hair are all pertinent, especially considering Uighers are mostly Caucasian. However Uighers can not be considered monsters, nor do they have eyes on their ribs.

Obviously the quote is difficult to interpret. There seems no reason for saying anyone is wrong or incorrect. Thanks to all of you.

BTW, one of my favorite Chinese characters is the character for "if" . It is comprised of the composite of the symbol for woman and the symbol for mouth. The Confucians being rather sexist, I suppose this is to be interpreted as "anything a woman says is iffy". Sorry gals, all of Chinese script is like that.

Excellent reference read and great food for thought regarding other relic populations of quasi or proto hominins out there on the brushy hominoid branch of the tree of life. Eye's in the center of the chest almost suggests to me how someone might describe a male orangutan after its literal description had been too scrupulously translated a time or two. I seem to recall reading that they did at one time live up into the more temperate forests of China until historical times, which is quite a ways back when talking about China.

this is a very informative new thread. ty bill g

The thing about the mummies having red hair?

Lots of mummies seem to have reddish hair (and sometimes skin) because of a chemical reaction with the surrounding dirt, or with their wrappings.

Why would these unknown animals be screaming "in pain" --lots of animals have a scream as their call (like falcons) but aren't described as being in pain.

I just ran across a reference in Herodotus about headless men with eyes in their chest. This could the the origin of the Chinese reference.

Herodotus, Histories
4. 191. 3 (trans. Godley) (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
"For the eastern region of Libya [i.e. North Africa], which the nomads inhabit, is low-lying and sandy as far as the Triton river; but the land west of this, where the farmers live, is exceedingly mountainous and wooded and full of wild beasts. In that country are the huge snakes and the lions, and the elephants and bears and asps, the horned asses, the Dog-Headed (kynokephaloi) and the Headless (akephaloi) men that have their eyes in their chests, as the Libyans say, and the wild men and women, besides many other creatures not fabulous."

also

Pliny the Elder, Natural History 7. 23 (trans. Rackham) (Roman encyclopedia C1st A.D.) :
"Ctesias [Greek historian C4th B.C.] writes that . . . westward from these [the Troglodytoi or cave-dwellers of the African Red Sea] there are some people without necks, having eyes in their shoulders."

Pretty convincing and on another continent! Horned asses, huh? Now that would make the morning walk a little brisker! Dog-headed????