Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Primatologist: If Bigfoot exists, it's not an ape...
Bigfoot Forums > Bigfoot/Sasquatch Discussion > Media > News & Magazine Articles
tugboatwa
http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sp...igfootside.html
QUOTE
OUTDOORS
Primatologist: If Bigfoot exists, it's not an ape


By Mike Leggett - AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF Sunday, October 04, 2009
Click to view attachment
Mike Leggett /AMERICAN-STATESMAN
Primatologist Esteban Sarmiento, interviewed shortly after addressing the Texas Bigfoot Conference, says if Bigfoot exists in North America, it's the closest living relative to human beings.

TYLER — If Bigfoot exists in North America, the mythical beast is no mere ancient representative of an ape family that migrated across the Bering land mass with mastodons and ancient man, a primatologist says.

Bigfoot — or Sasquatch or Skunk Ape or Fouke Monster or whatever name you prefer — would have to be a completely new and specific species, Esteban Sarmiento told attendees at the ninth annual Texas Bigfoot Conference on Sept. 26. "If it's real, this animal is exceedingly human-like," Sarmiento said. "It would be our closest relative on earth."

Sarmiento, though, wouldn't exactly address the question of whether Bigfoot exists or whether he believes the tales about wild, hairy beasts that have drifted out of dark, wooded river bottoms and foggy rain forests for decades. What Sarmiento did say, though, is that, based on his studies of great apes in Africa, Sumatra and Borneo, whatever Bigfoot is, he's not an ape.

Sarmiento spoke during the conference about the so-called Patterson-Gimlin film shot in 1967. A touchstone in Bigfoot lore and the believers' burning bush, the film purports to show a female Bigfoot with pendulous breasts, striding across a rocky area in northern California.

The film has been debated by believers, denounced and debunked by critics, shown on television and dissected and disseminated on YouTube.

Roger Patterson was a would-be filmmaker who had been trying to get funding for a movie about Bigfoot. In early 1967, he rented a quality 16mm camera and convinced Robert Gimlin to travel with him into the wilderness to look for the creature . Amazingly, they found a hairy specimen walking away from them and into heavy timber in the distance. The creature shown in the film is covered in dark hair and walks with a human gait, even turning its head to look back at the camera before it disappears.

Gimlin, who's still alive and attended the conference, swears the film is real. Patterson maintained its authenticity until his death, which happened in 1972. However, a man named Bob Heironimus has claimed he was paid $1,000 to don the suit and walk in front of the camera and out of sight.

Bigfoot and Sasquatch sightings have been common in the Pacific Northwest for decades. They've also been prevalent in East Texas and the surrounding big timber regions of Arkansas, Louisiana and Oklahoma.

Believers think the common traits of a 7- to 9-foot tall, hairy, wild-eyed but super intelligent beast that normally avoids humans but often is spotted walking along roadways or standing close to remote cabins are related to the same species.

Bigfoot is rare enough, they say, that he must move around to find mates and new territory, and that's why reports have filtered in for at least 150 years.

There have been some obscure and out-of-focus photos taken over the years, and there have been Bigfoot hoaxes and claims of capture and kills, even by respected members of the Bigfoot community. But no one ever has managed a quality photo that comes even close to Patterson's film.

Bigfoot believers — the serious ones are called researchers to separate themselves from simple believers who seem to have devout faith as well in Atlantis, UFOs, chupacabras and aliens among us — have claimed the film shows a possible descendant of Gigantopithecus blacki, a great ape that migrated across the land bridge to live in North America. Sarmiento isn't buying that.

"A great ape (chimp, gorilla or orangutuan) can't do this. I guarantee there's no great ape that can do this," Sarmiento says, pointing to the frame in the film when the creature turns in full stride to look over its shoulder at the camera. "A gorilla couldn't do this. It can't turn it's head. An ape would have to stop and turn around to look at the camera." Apes can walk on two legs, he said, but not with the stride and gait the Patterson Bigfoot uses. That's a human trait.

"And the breast is covered in hair. Gorillas don't have hair on their breasts. Apes only have breasts if they're nursing, but there's no baby in the film," Sarmiento said. "Females usually have a baby around, and I don't think it would leave and not take the baby." Sarmiento added that the bottom of the Bigfoot's foot in the film isn't an ape's foot with an opposable toe and even noted that it looks somewhat like a padded house shoe.

So what is it? What does the film show? "If I can't show it either way, why would I make the call," Saremiento said. "If it's real it has to be a whole new species. Is it a man in a monkey suit? I don't know. If I said that and it turned out not to be, then I'd look stupid."
RiverRun
What is amazing is for a creature that is supposed to be very, very elusive... Two men approaching on horses were supposedly able to come within 80 or so feet of it in the mid day sun in an open area. It stayed in the open area during its escape too. (instead of going to the closest woods/cover) Doesnt sound so elusive given those circumstances. Two men on horses with a third in tow would make quite a bit of noise approaching. Certainly enough to alert such a stealthy and aware creature. whistling.gif


Also why would it walk back towards the men instead of heading in the opposite direction of them? There are plenty of wooded area surrounding it completely, yet it chooses to go right out in the open in front of the men on horse, whos horses supposedly spook and cause a big commotion also. Sound weird for any animal? hmmmm.
jamin19
I may have to agree with Sarmiento thinking the Big Guy is more human than ape. I would think that only a human or close relative of human could genereate enough advanced thought to be capable of eluding..... humans.




QUOTE(RiverRun @ Oct 4 2009, 01:34 AM) *
What is amazing is for a creature that is supposed to be very, very elusive... Two men approaching on horses were supposedly able to come within 80 or so feet of it in the mid day sun in an open area. It stayed in the open area during its escape too. (instead of going to the closest woods/cover) Doesnt sound so elusive given those circumstances. Two men on horses with a third in tow would make quite a bit of noise approaching. Certainly enough to alert such a stealthy and aware creature. whistling.gif
Also why would it walk back towards the men instead of heading in the opposite direction of them? There are plenty of wooded area surrounding it completely, yet it chooses to go right out in the open in front of the men on horse, whos horses supposedly spook and cause a big commotion also. Sound weird for any animal? hmmmm.


One would think that an animal would more tend to react to the circumstances around it and in the case above, RiverRun, one would think that if it was just an animal it would have reacted and just bolted for the nearest tree line. But if Patty was more on the human side is it possible she was having advanced thoughts, and chose her escape rout? Maybe she was doing what she thought would be portrayed as showing less fear to the onlookers.
RiverRun
QUOTE(jamin19 @ Oct 4 2009, 02:28 AM) *
I may have to agree with Sarmiento thinking the Big Guy is more human than ape. I would think that only a human or close relative of human could genereate enough advanced thought to be capable of eluding..... humans.
One would think that an animal would more tend to react to the circumstances around it and in the case above, RiverRun, one would think that if it was just an animal it would have reacted and just bolted for the nearest tree line. But if Patty was more on the human side is it possible she was having advanced thoughts, and chose her escape rout? Maybe she was doing what she thought would be portrayed as showing less fear to the onlookers.



Thats a pretty broad assumption as to "why" any animal or human trying to evade humans would choose a route towards them into the open area, and not into the woodline and away from them. Sure makes for easy filming though.
billgreen2005bigfoot
very informative new article. but i think sasquatches are more like gorillas than apes & humans. ty bill g smile.gif
jamin19
QUOTE(RiverRun @ Oct 4 2009, 02:35 AM) *
Thats a pretty broad assumption as to "why" any animal or human trying to evade humans would choose a route towards them into the open area, and not into the woodline and away from them. Sure makes for easy filming though.


Yes you're right, I'm only speculating here but it does offer a possible explanation as to why Patty casually strolled off instead of bolting into the nearest tree line. Humans do the same thing. Have you ever been in a situation such as a fierce looking dog is growling at you. Your instincts say, quick let's bolt to the nearest tree line, but your advanced thought says no lets casually walk away from the dog as to not show fear towards the dog, thus preventing the dog from charging. I know it's speculative but it is still a possible explanation.
Let me know if I am incorrect here but I don't believe Patty walked towards Roger and Bob but maybe away from them but yet at an angle that she could still view Roger and Bob. And I don't think Roger or Bob actually charged or pursued after Patty, if they did I would think Patty would have bolted.
Of course if you think the PGF is a hoax than yes that would have been nice for an easy filming as well.
lil foot
QUOTE(RiverRun @ Oct 4 2009, 03:34 PM) *
What is amazing is for a creature that is supposed to be very, very elusive... Two men approaching on horses were supposedly able to come within 80 or so feet of it in the mid day sun in an open area. It stayed in the open area during its escape too. (instead of going to the closest woods/cover) Doesnt sound so elusive given those circumstances. Two men on horses with a third in tow would make quite a bit of noise approaching. Certainly enough to alert such a stealthy and aware creature. whistling.gif
Also why would it walk back towards the men instead of heading in the opposite direction of them? There are plenty of wooded area surrounding it completely, yet it chooses to go right out in the open in front of the men on horse, whos horses supposedly spook and cause a big commotion also. Sound weird for any animal? hmmmm.

gday riverrun, im thinking that maybe its a good idea to do expeditions on horseback as the sound of the animals walking would be more familiar to bf and less threatening, bf probably wouldnt know a man was on the horse until it was in sight.
sort of in the same way humans ride on elephants in asian countries to search for tigers, the tigers see the humans on the elephant as another part of the elephant.
i have heard of a few reports of near sightings of bf in the u.s and yowie down here in australia while the person was on horse back and id say this is the reason. does anyone do expeditions on horse back? or is this a thing of the past? maybe it should be thought of again, just a thought... cheers
Sasquat.ch
Very interesting, thank's for posting it.

I don't know if Sarmiento is quoted correctly, but I think if an ape could evolve into a bipedal creature, it could also or even needed to adapt other anatomical things. Like the ability to turn its head like a human.

Interesting, how several "bigfoot" scientists now tend to think that sasquatch is more human. I would be interested to know if Jeff Meldrum has changed his mind too. Wasn't he working on a sequel to LMS where he wants to give more strenght to the Giganto theory...
Pywacket
QUOTE
Bigfoot — or Sasquatch or Skunk Ape or Fouke Monster or whatever name you prefer — would have to be a completely new and specific species, Esteban Sarmiento told attendees at the ninth annual Texas Bigfoot Conference on Sept. 26. "If it's real, this animal is exceedingly human-like," Sarmiento said. "It would be our closest relative on earth."


The only problem with this statement is that Sarmiento was pointing at Patty when he makes his conclusions. He is saying that Patty is more human than ape.

Patty isn't a Skunk Ape, Swamp Ape or Fouke Monster. By most accounts, of the sightings of bigfoot type animals, not many of them look like Patty. Especially in the Southern states.
twinkletoes
If Patty was nursing a baby and it wasn't with her at the time of the film being done, then why wouldn't she have a baby? She could've left that baby with another sasquatch. It would be like a human woman leaving her baby in daycare or with a sitter while she went to work or went out shopping.

I wanted to quote that one part about the nursing sasquatch mother, but I don't know how to get only that one part in this reply. I didn't want to get the whole article. It's at the bottom near the end where the interview talks about the apes not having hair on their breasts, ect..
jamin19
QUOTE(lil foot @ Oct 4 2009, 03:50 AM) *
gday riverrun, im thinking that maybe its a good idea to do expeditions on horseback as the sound of the animals walking would be more familiar to bf and less threatening, bf probably wouldnt know a man was on the horse until it was in sight.
sort of in the same way humans ride on elephants in asian countries to search for tigers, the tigers see the humans on the elephant as another part of the elephant.
i have heard of a few reports of near sightings of bf in the u.s and yowie down here in australia while the person was on horse back and id say this is the reason. does anyone do expeditions on horse back? or is this a thing of the past? maybe it should be thought of again, just a thought... cheers


lil foot, that is an interesting post as I do think as well that it may have been possible that the horses may not have been perceived as a threat to Patty. It may also be possible that Patty may have perceived the horses as deer (another 4 legged animal) and possibly was stalking which may explain why she was crouched down by the creek when she was first noticed. I know that is a lot of speculation on my part but maybe it could support the idea that Patty is closer to human than ape?
By the way the expeditions on horse back idea is very interesting as well and maybe another thread to discuss that would be advantageous.
jamin19
QUOTE(Pywacket @ Oct 4 2009, 02:35 PM) *
The only problem with this statement is that Sarmiento was pointing at Patty when he makes his conclusions. He is saying that Patty is more human than ape.

Patty isn't a Skunk Ape, Swamp Ape or Fouke Monster. By most accounts, of the sightings of bigfoot type animals, not many of them look like Patty. Especially in the Southern states.


My bold above.

I know that Pywacket, just knowing that makes this subject even more weirder! If that is the case would that mean their are at least two different species of undiscovered primates running loose in N. America? One closer to human and one closer to ape? It's hard enough to believe that one undiscovered species exists let alone two!
hopeful
QUOTE(Pywacket @ Oct 4 2009, 01:35 PM) *
The only problem with this statement is that Sarmiento was pointing at Patty when he makes his conclusions. He is saying that Patty is more human than ape. ...

That's correct. Just to be clear, Dr. Sarmiento didn't say, "If bigfoot exists, then bigfoot is more human than ape." He was speaking about Patty in particular. He said whatever the subject in the film is, it is more human than ape, in his opinion. He didn't say he thought Patty was a bigfoot or that bigfoot as a species even exists.

If I remember correctly, he did say that when she walks, Patty extends her leg backward (at the hip joint) much further than a person does. In other words, her stride is much longer than the would be stride of a human with the same leg length.
bigfootnis
Interesting article on ardi a hominid fossil find. Seems to suggest that maybe great apes evolved from bi-pedal ancesters towards knuckle walking instead of humans from knuckle walking to bi-pedal walking.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/10/01/a...n-ancestor.html
julio12
Well finally someone in the science world is thinking outside the boxthat these creatures might not be what we all think apes but some new form of species.So good to hear this come out of someone with some background.Way to go new_thumbsupsmileyanim.gif
LAL
QUOTE(bigfootnis @ Oct 4 2009, 11:08 PM) *
Interesting article on ardi a hominid fossil find. Seems to suggest that maybe great apes evolved from bi-pedal ancesters towards knuckle walking instead of humans from knuckle walking to bi-pedal walking.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/10/01/a...n-ancestor.html


Right. That's been the consensus for years, Richmond and Strait notwithstanding.
Pywacket
QUOTE(hopeful @ Oct 4 2009, 09:39 PM) *
That's correct. Just to be clear, Dr. Sarmiento didn't say, "If bigfoot exists, then bigfoot is more human than ape." He was speaking about Patty in particular. He said whatever the subject in the film is, it is more human than ape, in his opinion. He didn't say he thought Patty was a bigfoot or that bigfoot as a species even exists.


Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make. He was talking about Patty, in particular, not bigfoot in general.

It was interesting to see a primatologist state, in his opinion, that Patty was more human than ape. That won't sit well with some folks if it turns out to be true.

Holy Smokes.......what if we find out that Patty was shot and killed?????!!!!!
Drew
What is really funny is that he states his reason for stating it could be a real animal as:

QUOTE( Dr. Esteban Sarmiento)
If I said that and it turned out not to be, then I'd look stupid.


This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2010 Invision Power Services, Inc.