Hey, I was out wandering today in the sierras, I came across a number of new semi / clear cut areas. I was wondering if there is a correlation between NEW tree clearing areas and BF sightings?
I seem to recall reading about sightings of tracks and such in the 50'S around logging equipment.
I've been looking around every piece of equipment I wander by in my daily trek. Nothing so far....lol
Cheerio!
Full Version: Logging - Does tree clearing attract BF?
Only a thought, but perhaps they'd use logged areas for easier travel, if they didn't already have good established trails, which it would seem they would. But animals do tend to use the easiest ways of travel. That could explain sightings, but in my opinion, human activity, especially something in the bigger scheme, would be more likely to drive them away and out of an area. My overall theory of sasquatch is that they have been and are driven away from human influence.
On teh same sort of lines, i know there are some Researchers who believe that Clear Cuts made for Electricity Pylons ( can't remember the correct terminology for what you Guys in the US call them ?? ) & believe that they use them as " Corridors " for travel, at night of course..
When trees are cut it creates a diversity and this can lead to diversity in animal habitat, as well as possible grazing or foraging opportunities that are not in the areas under the "canopy" of the forest. I think it also leads to an opportunity to see an animal easier. It's difficult to see the trees through the forest 
, so having a cleared area allows for a better view for the individual viewing. It likely provides an opportunity for different vegetation, different animals to flourish and the opportunity to more easily see those animals. Could be a corridor as well, like a power line road.
, so having a cleared area allows for a better view for the individual viewing. It likely provides an opportunity for different vegetation, different animals to flourish and the opportunity to more easily see those animals. Could be a corridor as well, like a power line road.
QUOTE(Bobby Orangeboom @ Aug 10 2009, 09:57 AM) 
On teh same sort of lines, i know there are some Researchers who believe that Clear Cuts made for Electricity Pylons ( can't remember the correct terminology for what you Guys in the US call them ?? ) & believe that they use them as " Corridors " for travel, at night of course..
Sendoros or High Lines are common names
All animals are curious. After plowing a field the next morning it will be full of tracts, Deer, hogs, ect. whatever wildlife is in the area will come to see what happened after you leave.
Thats Definately true,
I remember as a kid on our family farm many times after cutting, raking or baling hay all kinds of critters would show up to feast on insects that had been made homeless by the coastal hay's departure. There would also be a host of buzzards and crows that would fly in to munch on any small animals such as mice, rabbits and snakes that had been shredded during the somewhat gruesome process.
I remember as a kid on our family farm many times after cutting, raking or baling hay all kinds of critters would show up to feast on insects that had been made homeless by the coastal hay's departure. There would also be a host of buzzards and crows that would fly in to munch on any small animals such as mice, rabbits and snakes that had been shredded during the somewhat gruesome process.
In BC - the vast majority of logging sites are replanted within two years. This has been going on for at least twenty years. Further to that - pre-planting activities such as brushing and/or screefing may occur.
After the planting has been completed - there are silviculture surveys over the years consisiting of thorougly inspected plots to ensure that nothing further has to be done to ensure that the goal of The Silviculture Prescription (X number of new trees per hectare) is going to be met.
Based on the above - one would expect a lot of RPFs or Technicians or tree planters to have have lots of sightings or at least professionals in the Silviculture Industry to have lots of evidence to discuss or show.
It just ain't happening.
edited for spelingz
After the planting has been completed - there are silviculture surveys over the years consisiting of thorougly inspected plots to ensure that nothing further has to be done to ensure that the goal of The Silviculture Prescription (X number of new trees per hectare) is going to be met.
Based on the above - one would expect a lot of RPFs or Technicians or tree planters to have have lots of sightings or at least professionals in the Silviculture Industry to have lots of evidence to discuss or show.
It just ain't happening.
edited for spelingz
We call power line corridors 'easements' here in O-Hi-O. I think established (meaning new growth) clear cuts, created for any reason, do in fact create a new microcosm of potential food sources, directly or indirectly that a predator could use to it's advantage. I think the draw for BF to new clear cuts would be curiosity and possibly anger over territorial infringement. IMO.
FWIW, I have taken at least one from someone who was laying lines in the Carnation Wa. area.
As for clear cuts, in the NW, red huckleberry, blackberry, and elderberry will grow quickly in clear cuts. These berries are excellent food source for many different animals. Off topic from sasquatch, I noticed the scotch broom in our clear cut being utilized by does to hide their fawns. The yellow flowers camouflage the spotted fawns very well.
Redwolf
As for clear cuts, in the NW, red huckleberry, blackberry, and elderberry will grow quickly in clear cuts. These berries are excellent food source for many different animals. Off topic from sasquatch, I noticed the scotch broom in our clear cut being utilized by does to hide their fawns. The yellow flowers camouflage the spotted fawns very well.
Redwolf
QUOTE(rockinkt @ Aug 10 2009, 11:21 PM)
In BC - the vast majority of logging sites are replanted within two years. This has been going on for at least twenty years. Further to that - pre-planting activities such as brushing and/or screefing may occur.
After the planting has been completed - there are silviculture surveys over the years consisiting of thorougly inspected plots to ensure that nothing further has to be done to ensure that the goal of The Silviculture Prescription (X number of new trees per hectare) is going to be met.
Based on the above - one would expect a lot of RPFs or Technicians or tree planters to have have lots of sightings or at least professionals in the Silviculture Industry to have lots of evidence to discuss or show.
It just ain't happening.
edited for spelingz
After the planting has been completed - there are silviculture surveys over the years consisiting of thorougly inspected plots to ensure that nothing further has to be done to ensure that the goal of The Silviculture Prescription (X number of new trees per hectare) is going to be met.
Based on the above - one would expect a lot of RPFs or Technicians or tree planters to have have lots of sightings or at least professionals in the Silviculture Industry to have lots of evidence to discuss or show.
It just ain't happening.
edited for spelingz
Even based on teh above what you wrote, i see no definate reason as to why they would have lots of Sightings personally..
I think he was stating that people who work outdoors for a living should be more inclined to have sightings. It doesn't seem as though there are tons of reports coming in from people who work in the field like this.
QUOTE(Redwolf @ Aug 11 2009, 12:36 AM)
I think he was stating that people who work outdoors for a living should be more inclined to have sightings. It doesn't seem as though there are tons of reports coming in from people who work in the field like this.
Cool & in that case maybe i mis read what RKNT wrote, apologies..
But there are any number of reasons why Reports don't come in & i think we all know the different reasonings why that is too..
I'm not disagreeing with anyone, just saying that it isn't as straight forward as what RCKNT's saying & i think he'd agree & knows that anyway..
Redwolf figured out what I meant. She's not just another pretty face
The fact is - in my province - there are a lot of very knowledgeable, highly educated, and very professional people who spend a great deal of their life involved in the silviculture/logging industry. They are called Registered Professional Foresters (RPFs) and Registered Forest Technologists (RFTs).
Most of them spend a great deal of time in very remote places planning future logging operations in vast areas many miles from the nearest road. Helicopter use is extensive.
They have to sample, analyze, study, and become very knowledgeable on all the flora and fauna in the area - including migratory and rare species.
They have to become experts on the soil types, lakes, rivers, streams, and ryparian areas. They must also analyze potential erosion due to elevation and slope.
Then, they have to devise methods of logging that will protect all species and ensure regeneration and/or replanting will be successful both from a forest and game mangement point of view.
Once the logging is completed - they have to ensure that the prescription that was made for regeneration of the cut-block is followed and is successful. That means many visits to the now logged area to ensure that the planting went OK - that the trees are growing - if not why not - and come up with a solution and implement it.
They do all of the above by developing a plot map of the area that is like a grid over the whole area. They then go set distances (50, 75, 100 metres, etc.) and then count, measure and sample everything in that circle plot. If there was something to see - they would see it and their training and professionalism does not allow for too many errors. Not to mention that a random sampling of the cruise plots are audited by RPFs working for the government to keep things honest and at a high level.
That is just a very brief overview of siliculture practice in BC. To state that the people involved in this type of work become some of the most knowledgeable people regarding the flora and fauna found in the area would be an understatement.
Now - because my family was in the industry in a big way and I still dabble in the industry on the ranch and woodlot - I have gotten to know a number of RPFs and RFTs quite well. NEVER have I heard a serious word about sasquatch from these men and women even though I have broached the subject with many.
Like I said in my first post above - if anybody was going to see one othese critters or least the sign of its movement in a logged area - it would be far more likely them than anybody else.
But - it just ain't happening.
The fact is - in my province - there are a lot of very knowledgeable, highly educated, and very professional people who spend a great deal of their life involved in the silviculture/logging industry. They are called Registered Professional Foresters (RPFs) and Registered Forest Technologists (RFTs).
Most of them spend a great deal of time in very remote places planning future logging operations in vast areas many miles from the nearest road. Helicopter use is extensive.
They have to sample, analyze, study, and become very knowledgeable on all the flora and fauna in the area - including migratory and rare species.
They have to become experts on the soil types, lakes, rivers, streams, and ryparian areas. They must also analyze potential erosion due to elevation and slope.
Then, they have to devise methods of logging that will protect all species and ensure regeneration and/or replanting will be successful both from a forest and game mangement point of view.
Once the logging is completed - they have to ensure that the prescription that was made for regeneration of the cut-block is followed and is successful. That means many visits to the now logged area to ensure that the planting went OK - that the trees are growing - if not why not - and come up with a solution and implement it.
They do all of the above by developing a plot map of the area that is like a grid over the whole area. They then go set distances (50, 75, 100 metres, etc.) and then count, measure and sample everything in that circle plot. If there was something to see - they would see it and their training and professionalism does not allow for too many errors. Not to mention that a random sampling of the cruise plots are audited by RPFs working for the government to keep things honest and at a high level.
That is just a very brief overview of siliculture practice in BC. To state that the people involved in this type of work become some of the most knowledgeable people regarding the flora and fauna found in the area would be an understatement.
Now - because my family was in the industry in a big way and I still dabble in the industry on the ranch and woodlot - I have gotten to know a number of RPFs and RFTs quite well. NEVER have I heard a serious word about sasquatch from these men and women even though I have broached the subject with many.
Like I said in my first post above - if anybody was going to see one othese critters or least the sign of its movement in a logged area - it would be far more likely them than anybody else.
But - it just ain't happening.
If these people never see sasquatch, or signs of it, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that it's not there. I don't for a second believe there's a conspiracy of silence.
Do the US equivalent of RPFs and RFTs ever report it? Or have, en masse, the people right across the PNW who'd be most likely to see evidence of sasquatch, never done so?
Do the US equivalent of RPFs and RFTs ever report it? Or have, en masse, the people right across the PNW who'd be most likely to see evidence of sasquatch, never done so?
QUOTE(ludo @ Aug 11 2009, 03:19 AM)
If these people never see sasquatch, or signs of it, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that it's not there. I don't for a second believe there's a conspiracy of silence.
Do the US equivalent of RPFs and RFTs ever report it? Or have, en masse, the people right across the PNW who'd be most likely to see evidence of sasquatch, never done so?
Do the US equivalent of RPFs and RFTs ever report it? Or have, en masse, the people right across the PNW who'd be most likely to see evidence of sasquatch, never done so?
2 very different things, seeing a Sasquatch & reporting seeing a Sasquatch, in my very honest opinion..
Especially when one's livelihood may depend on it..
QUOTE
FWIW, I have taken at least one from someone who was laying lines in the Carnation Wa. area.
I was pretty tired, I left out the word "report" lol
I would expect that more reports would come from people working outdoors. It isn't happening, but that doesn't dampen my 89.99% belief in the existence of such an animal. Though it does plant doubts obviously.
Bobby, if you are insinuating that someone would get fired for reporting a sighting, I would have to disagree with you. I have a family member who was a logger and openly discussed his experiences. Never lost a job.
Perhaps if someone became obsessed, or brought media attention to the company they work for then I guess I could see that being an issue.
"Like I said in my first post above - if anybody was going to see one othese critters or least the sign of its movement in a logged area - it would be far more likely them than anybody else.
But - it just ain't happening."
When I google "sasquatch and Logger" or "Logger reports bigfoot" I see tons and tons of reports from many different sources.
But - it just ain't happening."
When I google "sasquatch and Logger" or "Logger reports bigfoot" I see tons and tons of reports from many different sources.
QUOTE(COGrizzly @ Aug 11 2009, 11:18 AM)
"Like I said in my first post above - if anybody was going to see one othese critters or least the sign of its movement in a logged area - it would be far more likely them than anybody else.
But - it just ain't happening."
When I google "sasquatch and Logger" or "Logger reports bigfoot" I see tons and tons of reports from many different sources.
But - it just ain't happening."
When I google "sasquatch and Logger" or "Logger reports bigfoot" I see tons and tons of reports from many different sources.
Awesome!
My post concerns the Province Of BC in Canada and the RPFs and RPTs that I know that have years and years of experience.
Since I knew them and was able to talk to them face to face and use my training and experience in LE - I was able to make an informed judgement as to their crediblity.
I am assuming that you can find at least ten of those reports you mentioned and post the in depth investigation that validates the claim being made. Please point me to where I can review these valid investigations.
After all - you are not just accepting every report you read as being true - are you?
Clearcuts, from a naturalistic point of view, are considered a "disturbance" and as such are much like floods, rockslides, fires and bugkills. In particular now, in our modern time, with modern forest management practices that plus our somewhat misguided notion of the presumed inpenetrable canopy of the presumed old growth that many presume our pre-european "wilderness" was ( I don't think so ), a disturbance is actually a multiplier when it comes to wildlife. First the sun brings in energy which results in new growth and of course the animals that eat it or need to be near it. Secondly, as a matter of human perception, we visual creatures can be really pretty poor at identifiying stuff that our minds are not prepared to see and for which we have none or little experience with which to create an internal search image in our brains. Clearcuts, with their rectilinear configuration can focus our perceptions just like a frame around an image does, and then in the context of that framed space we begin to see relationships and features (some real and some illusory) that ordinarily we might not recognize consciously or unconsciously. Whether this is happening with BF, I can't say, having never seen one myself, but I have spent quite a bit of time around clear cuts and had time to think about human perception as well from the practical aspects of human congnition (training in aesthetics).
I do know this about clear cuts, that they are pretty noisy and conspicuous places and if you're in one, you become pretty obvious if you're moving across the top of the cut logs, or slash, or after a burn. Back into the standing timber, prior to the return of the huckleberries, devils club, and all the rest, it is an amazing sight to look and peer deeply into an old grown forest from upper canopy, clerestory and down to the relatively clear forest floor.
I do know this about clear cuts, that they are pretty noisy and conspicuous places and if you're in one, you become pretty obvious if you're moving across the top of the cut logs, or slash, or after a burn. Back into the standing timber, prior to the return of the huckleberries, devils club, and all the rest, it is an amazing sight to look and peer deeply into an old grown forest from upper canopy, clerestory and down to the relatively clear forest floor.
QUOTE(rockinkt @ Aug 11 2009, 02:23 PM)
Awesome!
My post concerns the Province Of BC in Canada and the RPFs and RPTs that I know that have years and years of experience.
Since I knew them and was able to talk to them face to face and use my training and experience in LE - I was able to make an informed judgement as to their crediblity.
I am assuming that you can find at least ten of those reports you mentioned and post the in depth investigation that validates the claim being made. Please point me to where I can review these valid investigations.
After all - you are not just accepting every report you read as being true - are you?
My post concerns the Province Of BC in Canada and the RPFs and RPTs that I know that have years and years of experience.
Since I knew them and was able to talk to them face to face and use my training and experience in LE - I was able to make an informed judgement as to their crediblity.
I am assuming that you can find at least ten of those reports you mentioned and post the in depth investigation that validates the claim being made. Please point me to where I can review these valid investigations.
After all - you are not just accepting every report you read as being true - are you?
Here are a few...(no, I am certainly not accepting every single report as 100% truth) I'm just sayin' that there are reports out there of loggers seeing sasquatch. I don't know how "valid" they are...One could say that not a single one is "valid", since there is no sasquatch body. But, the reports are out there.
http://www.pararesearchers.org/Cryptozoolo...o4/crypto4.html
http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/classics/logger.html
http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/papers/hewkin.html
http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/report_detail.php?id=00027
Uh, I gotta start a new thread on the one I just found....and hey, rock, again - not saying any of these are worth a spit, they're just stories.
http://bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=1408
Thanks rock, I would have never come across this one if I hadn't been looking around....
QUOTE(Redwolf @ Aug 11 2009, 09:48 AM)
I was pretty tired, I left out the word "report" lol
I would expect that more reports would come from people working outdoors. It isn't happening, but that doesn't dampen my 89.99% belief in the existence of such an animal. Though it does plant doubts obviously.
Bobby, if you are insinuating that someone would get fired for reporting a sighting, I would have to disagree with you. I have a family member who was a logger and openly discussed his experiences. Never lost a job.
Perhaps if someone became obsessed, or brought media attention to the company they work for then I guess I could see that being an issue.
I would expect that more reports would come from people working outdoors. It isn't happening, but that doesn't dampen my 89.99% belief in the existence of such an animal. Though it does plant doubts obviously.
Bobby, if you are insinuating that someone would get fired for reporting a sighting, I would have to disagree with you. I have a family member who was a logger and openly discussed his experiences. Never lost a job.
Perhaps if someone became obsessed, or brought media attention to the company they work for then I guess I could see that being an issue.
Ok Red, i appreciate your example given but we will have to agree to disagree as i'm as sure as sure can be that i have read various Reports/Parts of Books about all kinds of people in all kinds of Jobs ( Police Officers for example off the top of my Head & i am sure i have read about Forestry Workers also that have not Officialy Reported their Sightings for fear of repremand in their Professional Careers..
Off the top of my head, i do recall a Sighting by a Police Officer, somewhere certainly in WA & possibly on the Olympic Peninsula, where an Officer Reported, officially, a BF Sighting & within days he withdrew his Statement & claimed it was a Bear AFTER an Interview ( John Green possibly ?? ) that whatever he did see, it was pretty clear it wasn't a Bear.
We can only assume of course as to why he changed his Statement but i'm sure we've all got a pretty good idea..
Hey, the late Grover Krantz used to openly state that he believed that he didn't get as far as he could have done in his Field of Work because of his open belief of Sasquatch, ok that's not exactly getting fired but he believed that obstacles were put in the way of his natural Career because of his belief of Sasquatch..
I will " try " to dig something out Red but it may take me some time if going over my Books, i'll try Googling for maybe a better/quicker search..
I'll try to find some correspondence on actual Forestry Workers Online ( if there is any Public ) instead of Police Officers as that's the subject we're on..
I appreciate the consideration of the possibility of sasquatch sightings possibly being higher for forestry workers, however, sasquatches presumably have excellent hearing and can hear the approach of vehicles, helicopters, etc. If they actively are avoiding human contact it would not be too hard for them to avoid a certain area if humans are in it if they want to.
Rocknkt I'm interested in the numbers of people you are interviewing, and their work habits. For example, do they go in at certain seasons only, or work throughout the year? Do they go in each day, or go in for a week, or a month? Do they work at certain times of the day? Do they stay overnight? How do they get in? Do they go in with camera's, etc.?
Finally, it also comes down to seeing what you are looking for. They may be looking for bear tracks, or cougar tracks, not sasquatch tracks. Unless there is a clear imprint with distinct toes and an extended length of foot on both sides, chances are they'll interpret them as bear. Tree breaks are attributable to wind. Nest sites, to other animals. etc. I don't think that a sasquatch will be seen if they don't want to be.
Rocknkt I'm interested in the numbers of people you are interviewing, and their work habits. For example, do they go in at certain seasons only, or work throughout the year? Do they go in each day, or go in for a week, or a month? Do they work at certain times of the day? Do they stay overnight? How do they get in? Do they go in with camera's, etc.?
Finally, it also comes down to seeing what you are looking for. They may be looking for bear tracks, or cougar tracks, not sasquatch tracks. Unless there is a clear imprint with distinct toes and an extended length of foot on both sides, chances are they'll interpret them as bear. Tree breaks are attributable to wind. Nest sites, to other animals. etc. I don't think that a sasquatch will be seen if they don't want to be.
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