Just asking, does anyone know if Higgins acted alone or not?

Forget it.

Ganglian, you of all people know the answer to that question. Stop playing games.

That would be funny if not so ridiculous pathetic.




You have the gall to come in here and thumb your nose at people? I don't think so.

Considering the vast majority of it is a replication from Melissa'a board, you're asking us? You're an ADMIN there and you don't know?



Bipto tried the same thing, 'coz he's friends with the people behind the scenes who started this, but had to appear to be "in the dark".

He wanted everyone to back off Alton because Alton is such a good guy. Do "good guys" DO that kind of thing? Does Alton do that kind of thing at the institution where he teaches? Then he thought the TBRC should be the one to take the heat. Isn't he ON the BOD of TBRC or at least a member of the goup? Was he afraid the heat on Alton would cause Alton to point the finger back at the real person who started this? Talk about conspiracy theories.

It was an honest question, does any know for sure? If you know or don't say so. Assuming isn't quite the same.



This is starting to piss me off, CT is not exactly next door to texas, I am not a member nor do I know Alton Higgins. I dont know which is why I asked in cased I had missed. If your response is an accusation you owe me a second apology and frankly so does Jayleed.

You're assuming I kow things I dont and that I have a dog in this race. I really dont give a rats ass what you believe about that but I dont have a dog in the race whether you want to accept that or not.,

Ganglian, we have had this discussion in the past week - you *are* an administrator on the forum that first published the MRP location are you not? Therefore, you *do* have a dog in this race whether you like it or not.

As an admin, you pretty much take responsibility for everything that is posted on that forum. After all, you blame me for anything on this forum you don't like, so fair is fair.

Just to remind people, we do not discuss the actual administration or moderation of other forums here at BFF, but I do think it is fair to discuss the issue of Ganglian being an admin of another forum since he has stated that he did not have a "dog in this race", bearing in mind that it was a post on that forum by a fellow administrator that 'outed' the MRP location.

Its a fine line, but I expect everyone to tread it carefully.

negative..................

the actions taken were by the tbrc and my objection is that the insinuation is that I have knowledge to action by higgins or anyone tbrc related and convenient or not I dont. Understand me very very plainly, I'm not bearing that cross for that for anyone here. <name edited out> accused me in my view and owes me an apology. I'm not guilty of any role in this outting and its gonna a cold day in hell before I accept any blame for it.

I very much see this outside the scope of our discussion, <name edited out> insinuated I know something I dont and your admin backed him, I in return have done but be nuetral in the whole affair.

So you had no prior knowledge of the information used in the Higgins article on the TBRC website regarding the Michigan Recording Project having originated on the forum that you administrate? You had not seen any of that material on that forum before the article came out?

(I haven't been on that forum in a very long time but others say that is where the information used in the article originated)

The first I saw them was the JREF, and you heard what I said, no I had not seen them first, what I see happening was a focus on th TBRC with whom I have no membership, and frankly dont know Higgins who seems to be the focus of this.

<name edited out> is suggesting I have duplicity and Jayleed seems to feel the same way. If that is the assertion, MAKE THE DAMN PROOF, some vague insinuated connection because I m an admin on an inconvenient forum making me guilty is bullshit.

Paul himself can attest to the fact I have tried to be a peacemaker in this. So again, if that is assertion, PROVE IT. Or admit being in the wrong,

edited for a typo

This sounds like it's gonna be one hellava party!

You know what? I don't care how much it pisses you off. I'm not blind, I'm not stupid and I can read with the best of them ganglian. You've played this back and forth bs for so long it's not even funny any longer...or surprising. Just as I said, it's pathetic. Go ahead, play the innocent bystander all you want, but don't expect to get another pass, at least not from me. I'll give you your apology the day you apologize for the crap you've pulled here over and over again, or the day donkeys fly...whichever comes first.

I don't give a damn what forum you're a member of, or an administrator of. How convenient that when the heat gets turned on, people will just pull the plug to keep the thermostat low. You lay down with dogs you get up with fleas.

Sorry if this crosses that 'fine line' but frankly, I've had a gut full of this crap.

Really? Here you posted at your own forum about Paul:


And 2 minutes after your post, Wammy posts the aerial images you claim you didn't see. Now let's just say you left right after your post, you came back and saw these images on your own forum a day later:
http://searchforbigfoot.org/index.php?show...ost&p=16494

And then you posted a link to it on JREF:
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=493...p;postcount=101



Notice you link to the post showing the aerial photos. You're saying you saw these on JREF first, but you're the one linking them. Yes, that is you, that is the avatar you used, that is the same you getting upset with Blackdog over him pointing out your forum keeps shutting down from the public.

Now, you show me where someone posted these at JREF first, because I'm not seeing it.

Click to view attachment

I am now cleaning Pina Colada off my monitor.

Knowing how things tend to disappear on Searchforbigfoot, I also took screenshots of everything.

Here's Ganglian's post 2 minutes before Wammy's:

Click to view attachment

Here's Ganglian a day later on his forum:

Click to view attachment

And here's Ganglian, aka Mikeyx, posting on Jref linking to the aerial photos, notice that is the exact same avatar he uses:

Click to view attachment

Edited to add: Ty!

Ganglian? Any comment? I think you may have lost your case here.

The only apologies that should be posted here should come from another source. I am sure pigs will grow wings before that happens.

EPIC FAIL!!!



Wolftrax.......

Excuse me? I've read back through our PMs - I have never once suggested, thought or insinuated that you were being a 'peacemaker', so please don't put words in my mouth.



Can I ask you this? When you discovered that your forum was the origin of the 'outing', what steps did you take to remove it, given how much damage you knew it could cause?

The answer of course is 'NONE', in fact, as Wolftrax demonstrated, you actually linked to the 'outing' from another forum, then had the audacity to lie about it here on BFF.


I think any credibility you thought you had has just been flushed down the toilet. Well done!




Let me give you some advice - Don't lie on BFF then challenge someone to "PROVE IT" - you are just asking for trouble.

Thanks, I can't take all the credit though, Blackdog had him pegged as Ganglian while he posted on JREF as Mikeyx, if there's any doubt that Mikeyx is Ganglian:





Going through this just now, I see he called him on this newest stuff too:




That Blackdog, I sure do miss my K9 brother, sure would be nice if he could post here again....

Whatever he's done, he has a lot more class than some of the people allowed to post here...

Damn, That's embarrassing.........................












tbrc conference (added to remain on topic)

It is unfortunate that this thread has been derailed, but I think most would agree that it was well worth it.


Can we get back to the subject of the TBRC conference at some point please?

No, I don't, I found out after the fact and by then the maps were out of public and the actions taken were by a root admin, unilaterally, and I honestly don't care if you believe that. You have obviously made up your mind, because it seems to be easier to lump folks together than consider alternative.

I am for the record sorry about what happened in outting of your reported location but the fact simply remains I didn't do it to you, and I am not taking the ehat for it. Deal with it one and all.



Didn't know until after the fact, and the actions taken were by a root admin, not myself. I'm not taking the guilt, because it hasn't been earned.



Back atcha Jay, but I am not accepting guilt in something I didn't do. It's that simple.



I don't need to, I didn't post anything and if I'm mistaken Mister Vella had a post previous to this one about not allowing comments about the moderation and/or administration of other forums. I guess we get to see if that will stick.

To clarify it's not MY forum, I only work there. That's not a very convenient fact for some, but is a fact. And those comments from that forum were discussed by Mister Vella and myself, and unless he changes his mind, it was private conversation though at this point that's up to him.



Not worth diginfying.....

Still something that happened after the fact..... I didn't post the maps, you're harping on minutia frankly and jumping a convenient target. You guys claim it isn't the actual location so one might actually why you're in such a snit. You really outta vent your focus on those who actually posted the information.

ANd honestly, if it were to be the actual location maybe someone provided sufficient to make the outting possible in the first place.

To reiterate: I did not out the location, whether it is or isn't the actual location or not. If it is, I feel bad for ya that's it;'s out there now.

I'm not going to be your scape goat. Deal.





I've been accused of something I didn't do, I've been accused on multiple occasions of owning the SFB and when folks simply know that not to be true, and most if not all of the accusers are being pretty loose with said accusations.

I didn't out the location, and I tried to make peace with the root admin of this forum before we began a witch hunt. You're going to be disappointed if you expect me to go to stake with resistance. Cuz I aint going. I didn't do this to you and your buds and thats the bottom line.



Forgot the timing perhaps but lie, no. And don't be selective in your memories conversations between yourself and myself and yourself and other SFB admins are apples and oranges to each other and you're lumping into an outting I didn't commit.

Linking to something after seeing it and asking for their take on it isn't lying. It was question same as the one above. Do folks actually know whether Higgins posted his article by himself or do they know that he had help finding the information, or are we all having a fun time throwing speculations in the annual bigfoot community witch hunt? I would conjecture number two.

Ganglian,

First, we are not discussing the moderation or administration of SFB, so put that little accusation back in your pocket straight away before I get really pissed.


What we are talking about here, since you fail to understand, is that you claimed you knew nothing about SFB making the address public until you saw it on JREF - that is a flat-out lie, since it was YOU that posted a link to the post on SFB - prior to that, the location was not known on JREF.

I can't beleive what I'm reading from you, I really can't - you have been caught in a major lie, your credibility (if you had any) is now completely shot, and you are trying to weasle your way out of this by talking about the moderation and administration of SFB - something you have just chastised me for. Let me make this as plain as I can - this isn't about who posted what on SFB, and who moderated what, since you made it plain that you chose not to do anything about the 'outing' on SFB, this is about YOU saying you read about the outing for the first time on JREF, when you didn't - you posted about the outing on JREF and brought it to everyones attention over there.

Its pathetic, it really is.




No, it isn't, but that isn't how you said it went down - go to JREF, find a post that 'outs' the location prior to your post there, then come back here and provide a link. You said you read about the outing for the first time on JREF, but it didn't happen that way.

when did I ever confirm, deny or otherwise mention being Mikeyx over there, for some it's largely common knowledge, no grassy knoll, sorry.





dully noted, that essential derails any recent conversation we may have had in my opinion. Thanks...

Don't be so pathetic, of course it is you, or do you want me to get a JREF moderator to confirm IP addresses with me?


What are the chances of two people using the name Mike posting with the same avatar and both appearing to be SFB moderators?


Do you really think people here are that stupid?


Unfreakinbelievable.

have another sip of coffee please, the point is, when have I ever denied being mikeyx over there? NEVER. That was the point. You gotta love the wind that comes from a rush to judge.

You WERE the first person to mention it outside SFB, and I don't see what my conversations with Billy and Melissa have to do with that.




Don't get smart with me. Not today.

No sir I won't because the only reason I'm taking this beating is because of the fact I am in admin over there, guilt by association kinda thing and you know it.



What you're denying is fodder for comment was posted just above by multiple posters, so again YES, YES IT IS...



It doesn't make me the outer and again, if the locale outted is NOT the actual location then the outcry seems a bit much. Yes it"s a bad thing to out an location under active investigation but the protesters themselves are adamant that that isn't what happened here, so again the outcry, seems a bit much.

So making me the guilty party is simply BS, and I won't quietly let it happen.

Edit: to add I noticed my warning went up again. Standing up for myself in the face of BS is a very subjective interpretation of a smart alec remark. I won't be lying down for you in this.

second edit for typo.

I'm having a hard time understanding why noone else from the TBRC has even attempted to vindicate their organization and or association with the parties involved in light of what's transpired in the last few days.

I have clearly stated that I am not a tbrc member nor have I ever been. The sensitivity point is that I am an admin on the SFB, two different designations, at least for some of us anyway.

You are so wrong Ganglian - you are taking a beating because you lied - you might like to convince yourself that it is because you are an admin elsewhere, but it really isn't - its because you lied about your involvement, plain and simple. Look back through this thread, and even your last post - YOU keep bringing up your admin status at SFB. I mentioned it once with a question about what you did to protect the location when it had been posted on SFB (the answer of course is nothing), but otherwise, there has been no real talk about you being SFB admin. Methinks you are trying to make this into a BFF v SFB issue, which it really isn't - we had that last week and we have put that to bed privately and relatively quietly.



If you believe you did not lie about seeing the location mentioned on JREF, why not do as I suggested and find the post on JREF that you saw about the MRP location, that predates yours and post a link to that post here.

If you are right, it should be easy - certainly a lot easier than defending yourself here and trying to deflect the argument.

If you are lying, then you won't be able to do it.


The choice is yours.




Trust me Ganglian, the last thing I want you to do is lie down for me - shudder!

Everyone knows you are an admin at the SFB.

Everyone knows you are Mikeyx on the JREF

No one is bringing either of those two things into question. You needn't keep commenting on them, so please stop deflecting the argument as Paul stated.

We are stating that you lied about your involvement.

You (as Mikeyx) were the one who posted a link on the JREF board to the location photos on the SFB board. THEN you tried to tell everyone that the JREF board was the first place you saw the information.

That is impossible. If you posted the information on the JREF board in the first place, you had to have seen it before...on the SFB board.

It also doesn't matter whether the information that you linked to the JREF from the SFB was accurate or not at this point. The point is that you lied about your involvement and now you are trying to twist the argument around and weasel out of your lies.

If I am wrong, someone other than Ganglian can correct me.

No, you're exactly right, Red......

Yall try not to get any of that tar and feathers on the floor, I just mopped.

smart is in the eye of the beholder, I won't be bowing down to you or anyone else if that's you mean. NOT gonna happen.

I didn't lie about anything, though I may have botched the timing. if there was wrong doing it was the posting of maps in the first place which I did not do. In leading the charge to connect me to that act, I'm going to stop there....

But i will say this, you folks cant have your cake and eat it to.

Either:

You presented evidence, though well documented, maybe too much so, on a project not yet complete

and either

1) altered the map to create confusion and protect the landowner or embellish it's woodiness, in which case your site is security and frankly you doth protest too much

OR

2) you were way to overgenerous in sharing information and someone (wammy) found the location and chose to publish it to question the heavily forested nature of what looks honestly like tracks of farmland, and in making so information available you made the site easy to find and screwed up yourselves.

By comparison squawking about mistaking the timing a post on two forums seems jus a wee bit convenient.

No kidding, I never denied either logon, and it was implied that I did, by Paul. Yes, yes you did.



And you are full of it, I linked to something after it was already public, the information was already out, and whether you like it or not, either the site secure because you guys altered the map in which case you're crying of split milk that apparently doesnt matter OR you released too much information and screwed up leaving yourselves AND the land owner for discovery. Whether you want to hear it or not, I did NOT post the mappings, I asked about after the fact.



And obviously botched the timing of the posting however I didn't post the mappings nor did I either give up too much to place the area at risk or maybe lie about the nature of the are, regardless of reason since you gusy wanna split hairs.



Absolutely wrong, you guys are ignoring the fact that if the site is secure, then you're crying over nothing. Or you released too much info and left the site and the landowner's at risk. I didnt do that to you, you're either crying so conveniently or you screwed up. Either way, the true nature of the site is in question, heavily forested or tracts of rural private land? What else did you guys embellish?



they won't, that wouldn't be "convenient".

Another fine example of "someone pointing their finger at others and not taking responsibility for their own actions". Ganglian it doesn't matter how hard you try to do the "Texas two step" you screwed up. All the talking outta both sides of your arse ain't gonna change it.

I've never seen so many people jump to conclusions and then dog pile on the wrong person.

The pictures that were first posted gave no indication of the location. They were posted because they oddly matched the map that was posted by the MRP. In fact the longitude/latitude coordinates were removed prior to posting. This is even mentioned.

No location given = no one was outed.

In case you are wondering I am speaking only about the information from the 23rd of July.

edited to say, I already know that this won't really do any good - your minds are made up, don't confuse yourselves with the facts.

Urban, it wouldn't be the first time but you're exactly.

the other side of the argument is every simple:

These guys were VERY generous in the info they gave regarding a project that was still in progress:

And the either did or didn't alter the map, a factoid that only surfaced after the maps were out which brings us back to original question of was the locale accurately shown or embellished because according to wammy the maps went up to question the validity of the claims regarding it being heavy forest. if accurate, the map shows otherwise. SO that alone is in question.

If the map was altered then what other evidence was potentially altered. like it or not there are too sides to this and folks here will both. I obviously linked to the maps after the fact and asked if there was a reaction to them? That DOES NOT make me the poster in either wammy or Alton's case.

The attack on me is after the fact, ill placed, and so so convenient.



added for reiteration: Check the archives, dog piles are nothing new. And it's all well and fine, I'll likely be gone by the end of the day.

also:

Originally Posted by William Parcher on the JREF



link

post number 234

Then's there's the pesky matter of this, or maybe inconvenient is better wording, it's been violated several times in this and the conference already, twice by the Board's admins.

specifically



pathetic seems a good example of what not to call people to



and all because I asked if folks knew (as opposed to assume) if Alton had published his article independently of wammy or with, cuz Wammy has not told that he gave Alton anything. Again assuming verses knowing. Old news....

The maps were posted on the SFB on the 23rd, you posted a link on JREF on the 24th, not once but TWICE, the first time to get Blackdog's comment on, the same guy you had a problem with.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=148559&page=3

Somehow, your buddy and fellow admin John Cartwright manages to find and post a link on JREF to the TBRC article on the 28th, and that is when William Parcher first posts the maps, 4 days AFTER you had posted a link TWICE.

And if you're being honest and not lying, why then is the thread on SFB now closed to the public? Good thinking on my part to include screenshots, eh?

which honestly doesn't matter if you guys are truthful in the map being altered, but I post the maps, wammy did. Either you guys posted a bogus map (at least), and the site is secure making this lynching much todo about nothing or it was revealed because the map is accurate because you and yours were much careless in how much info you shared with the public and now have to do cya, which likely brings us right up to this. Unless we'd to start yet another thread about the golden rules of posting here and how the word pathetic coming from two admins doesn't seem apply.

Admins of other forums get held to a double standard, the native ones seems to get a looser interpretation of that rule it seems.

Ganglian, In the top quote you claim the first time you saw the maps of the MRP was on the JREF. In the second post by Wolftrax it shows that you posted a link to the SFB forum's map on the JREF the day after Wammy posted them.

For the life of me I don't understand how you could have posted the link to the google maps from the SFB forum to the JREF forum without having seen the maps on the SFB forum first. Help me out here.

Ganglian, I have come to the conclusion that you either:

a) Really can't see what you lied about in which case you have a serious problem as an investigator who is supposed to pick up on other people's lies,

b ) Understand the lie you made and a desperately trying to cover up, in which case, you have a serious problem as an investigator because no-one will ever trust you again.


Forget who posted what on SFB, that is unimportant - you need to understand what you did - plenty of people here have explained it, but you are throwing mud around hoping that none of it sticks on you.

I'll make it clear, one last time:

YOU posted that the first you knew of the location outing on SFB was when YOU READ IT ON JREF, however, there was no mention of the SFB outing on JREF until you posted a link to it, which means you DID know about it, because you were the person who first mentioned it on JREF.

Is that clear enough for you?



Hang on, let me just check with my four year old.....

.... yep, she understands it.





Like I said (twice) if you think my assesment is wrong, all you have to do is post a link here to the post on JREF mentioning the SFB post that pre-dates your post. Do you understand that?


Hang on, let me just check with my goldfish....


.... yep, Bob says he understand it (although he'll probably forget in a few seconds).


Now, I see you have been on JREF this afternoon, and brought back a link to the one person who seems to be supporting you - why didn't you bring back a link to the post that pre-dates your link to SFB? I know you went looking for it.


Could it be that it doesn't exist and that you were therefore lying?


Say it ain't so....

You I will thank for at least an attempt at civility, please read my response to Paul.