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Full Version: Mary Green's Bark Ball
Tahell is John Connor? (at's for you Leeloo )
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Judaculla,
This thread is a shining example of BFF's value.
It has taken 13 pages but we (I) have now learned that there is a chance that a bigfoot may chew cud.
I know it seems a bit round-about but this thread has led somewhere for me.
Cheers,
Martin
This thread is a shining example of BFF's value.
It has taken 13 pages but we (I) have now learned that there is a chance that a bigfoot may chew cud.
I know it seems a bit round-about but this thread has led somewhere for me.
Cheers,
Martin
Wow, things got crazy around here for a while 
. I sincerely hope that everyone is able to come back and continue on the forum after tending to their wounds. I have to echo the sentiments of others that it's the greatest place around to toss ideas back and forthe, whether we like them or not. And thanks to the moderators for not closing this topic. You've allowed the members to find a return to normalcy and bring new light to the subject. 
That being said, does anyone (DDA?) have any info on what a "wooge" is? I've been trying to look it up but I'm coming up empty.
. I sincerely hope that everyone is able to come back and continue on the forum after tending to their wounds. I have to echo the sentiments of others that it's the greatest place around to toss ideas back and forthe, whether we like them or not. And thanks to the moderators for not closing this topic. You've allowed the members to find a return to normalcy and bring new light to the subject. That being said, does anyone (DDA?) have any info on what a "wooge" is? I've been trying to look it up but I'm coming up empty.
Shorebreak,
DDA said:
DDA said:
QUOTE
A wooge is a bunch of vegatation that is chewed up into a ball for hours on end because of the taste and ability to keep moisture in the mouth and then spit out indiscriminately by non-human primates. Its something that everyone should be looking for in researching Bigfoot, not that we know they actually have this behavior.
QUOTE(Shorebreak @ Dec 8 2003, 10:53 PM)
And thanks to the moderators for not closing this topic. You've allowed the members to find a return to normalcy and bring new light to the subject.
I'm still reserved about that but I'm an idiot about being an optimist so I'll still keep hoping.
Ok, I'm here on my Tuesday afternoon in Australia trying to get some work done and all of the sudden my brain kicks in and I have reached my conclusion on this thread. It goes sometime like this:
HairyMan's expertice as it pertains to the BFRO can only mean one of two things.
1) The Bfro believes that there is a possibility that a sasquatch participates in some type of basket weaving.
2) The Bfro uses HairyMan to separate what could be wooge from genuine "artifacts". Wheat from chaff or the like.
Just my thoughts,
Martin
HairyMan's expertice as it pertains to the BFRO can only mean one of two things.
1) The Bfro believes that there is a possibility that a sasquatch participates in some type of basket weaving.
2) The Bfro uses HairyMan to separate what could be wooge from genuine "artifacts". Wheat from chaff or the like.
Just my thoughts,
Martin
QUOTE(StacyInMI @ Dec 8 2003, 09:47 PM)
Here's a suggestion: Go back and start reading this thread again from the very beginning. If you're like me, the point where this turned from civil and respectful to spiteful and nasty will jump out at you on page four, and you may be surprised by who decided to turn it that way. 
good idea, but i cant bear to do it.
this entire thread depresses me. there is WAY too much negativity in these posts.
i'm like that 'see no evil' chimp..i dont wanna know
gael
Ok guys, I don't like throwing my weight around here, but I am very concerned about the amount of negativity this thread has generated.
The attitude towards the BFRO has gone from being questioning (which is good), to being downright abusive at times.
There is no reason why BFRO members should not feel happy to post on BFF - these forums would suffer if they all packed up and left.
However, I should also point out that the BFRO should not abuse their part of the board to talk about other BFFers behind their backs.
So, can everyone just chill a little please - we are all after the same goal here.
I'm locking this thread reluctantly, because there has been a lot of good discussion on it - hopefully this will find its way into other threads.
The attitude towards the BFRO has gone from being questioning (which is good), to being downright abusive at times.
There is no reason why BFRO members should not feel happy to post on BFF - these forums would suffer if they all packed up and left.
However, I should also point out that the BFRO should not abuse their part of the board to talk about other BFFers behind their backs.
So, can everyone just chill a little please - we are all after the same goal here.
I'm locking this thread reluctantly, because there has been a lot of good discussion on it - hopefully this will find its way into other threads.
While I totally understand where Paul is coming from by locking this topic, it is really an after affect of his just now reading the pages back where things got out of line. And they did.
Things have calmed down now however and are back on the subject and we seem to be making respectful conversation and learning more about something new. I am reopening the topic and will just ask for ALL to remain respectful in their posting.
Things have calmed down now however and are back on the subject and we seem to be making respectful conversation and learning more about something new. I am reopening the topic and will just ask for ALL to remain respectful in their posting.
QUOTE(damndirtyape @ Dec 8 2003, 09:27 PM)
Maybe everyone here should try and find out what a wooge is. You are about to close a door that was opened to everyone here. What a shame! 
Hmmm....
. I'm gonna have to go back to my kids' Dr. Seuss collection. I'm almost positive that "wooge" is in there somewhere! 
I'm just LOL at this thread now. Locked, unlocked, locked, unlocked!
QUOTE(robo @ Dec 9 2003, 10:27 AM)
I'm just LOL at this thread now. Locked, unlocked, locked, unlocked!
Yeah Robo, that's how I feel about it too.
Maybe at this point it's just best to leave it locked, leave it alone and walk away.
It definately is unlocked right now - I think I over-reacted, having read the entire thread in one sitting over my morning coffee.
Please everyone be nice to each other in future - and here is why....
Remember I'm on Greenwich Mean Time here - what you guys argue about in the evening is what I wake up to and read with my morning coffee.
if you guys have been rude to each other it puts me in a real bad mood for the rest of the day.
If I'm in a real bad mood, then my employees get in a real bad mood.
If my employees are in a bad mood they don't work as well.
If they don't work well, the customers get grumpy and leave
Then the market value of my company slumps.
And my company fails
and then I won't be able to pay the mortgage
The house will be repossessed
so I will have to come and live in your spare room - permanently.
You wouldn't want that - trust me !
So, play nice, and you won't find my dirty socks lying about your house
Please everyone be nice to each other in future - and here is why....
Remember I'm on Greenwich Mean Time here - what you guys argue about in the evening is what I wake up to and read with my morning coffee.
if you guys have been rude to each other it puts me in a real bad mood for the rest of the day.
If I'm in a real bad mood, then my employees get in a real bad mood.
If my employees are in a bad mood they don't work as well.
If they don't work well, the customers get grumpy and leave
Then the market value of my company slumps.
And my company fails
and then I won't be able to pay the mortgage
The house will be repossessed
so I will have to come and live in your spare room - permanently.
You wouldn't want that - trust me !
So, play nice, and you won't find my dirty socks lying about your house
You got it, Paul.
Don't worry, Paul. We could make room for you. I just don't know where we'd put your horse!
Paul
*breaks down in a sobbing mass on the floor*
okokokok ..... *sob* .. i admit ... I made that bigfoot soccer ball !!!! I planted it on the hillside behind that house in Tenn ... i KNEW Kathy would tear it apart, so i wove it together tightly .. but i had NO IDEA that MG would get involved *sob*
I was on the Grassy Knoll too .....
(someone hand me my Napolean hat please
) 
[edit] NOW i know what happens to those socks that get lost in the dryer ... they end up on Pauls floor !!!!!
okokokok ..... *sob* .. i admit ... I made that bigfoot soccer ball !!!! I planted it on the hillside behind that house in Tenn ... i KNEW Kathy would tear it apart, so i wove it together tightly .. but i had NO IDEA that MG would get involved *sob*
I was on the Grassy Knoll too .....
(someone hand me my Napolean hat please
) [edit] NOW i know what happens to those socks that get lost in the dryer ... they end up on Pauls floor !!!!!
QUOTE(Arkansan @ Dec 8 2003, 06:51 PM)
Ray, if you are referring to me here....
Sorry about that Lisa - I was trying to make a point about double standards on the forum, but really shouldn't have dragged in an old resentment of my own in doing so. My apologies.
Besides, as usual, you went and made the point much more effectively than I in your followup post.
-Ray
Thanks Ray....no worries.
This the post I was writing at the very moment this thread got locked the first time:
I'm sorry to see Kathy go - I do respect her work - her paper on a possible bigfoot nest was a great read, and I learned a great deal from it.
I just wanted to make sure that she and others considered Vosquatch's more mundane explanation for this object, and that he wasn't condemned for simply offering his opinion.
But to say this thread needs to be locked off, and that we've done ourselves a diservice - well I just don't see it. This has been nothing but another of BFF's very spirited debates.
The BFF isn't a warm fuzzy forum - We're a hard-headed bunch that expect claims to be backed up with evidence.
Harry is correct when he says that all scientific papers are submitted for peer-review - that's the function of the "Independent Research and Data Analysis" section of the BFF.
After all, this thread is just a small taste of the reception Kathy's paper would receive if she submitted it, along with her conclusions, to a professional scientific journal.
-Ray
Now, trying to add something constructive to the thread, I bought J Robert Alley's "Raincoast Sasquatch" yesterday, and came across two instances involving direct sightings of the big hairy guys stripping bark from trees - a behavior I hadn't known to have been actually observed before.
Pg. 43
Pg 78:
So there is precedent for bark-stripping behavior on the part of sasquatch - what is done with the bark afterwards is unknown. They may be looking for grubs under the bark, or chewing and eating the interior of the bark itself - or they may be wadding the bark up into b*lls - who knows?
In Albert Ostman's 1294 account of his abduction by a family of Sasquatches (pg 110), he notes:
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
-Ray
I'm sorry to see Kathy go - I do respect her work - her paper on a possible bigfoot nest was a great read, and I learned a great deal from it.
I just wanted to make sure that she and others considered Vosquatch's more mundane explanation for this object, and that he wasn't condemned for simply offering his opinion.
But to say this thread needs to be locked off, and that we've done ourselves a diservice - well I just don't see it. This has been nothing but another of BFF's very spirited debates.
The BFF isn't a warm fuzzy forum - We're a hard-headed bunch that expect claims to be backed up with evidence.
Harry is correct when he says that all scientific papers are submitted for peer-review - that's the function of the "Independent Research and Data Analysis" section of the BFF.
After all, this thread is just a small taste of the reception Kathy's paper would receive if she submitted it, along with her conclusions, to a professional scientific journal.
-Ray
Now, trying to add something constructive to the thread, I bought J Robert Alley's "Raincoast Sasquatch" yesterday, and came across two instances involving direct sightings of the big hairy guys stripping bark from trees - a behavior I hadn't known to have been actually observed before.
Pg. 43
QUOTE
"In July of 1992, I was doing security work on the Pipeline Road, now Revilla Road just north of Ward Lake, eight miles north of Ketchican. I was working the night shift driving the (then) gravel pipeline road that goes some dozen miles north from the mill. The job included driving and checking all the locked pipeline access gates. it was a clear night, I had just driven up to the gate two and the time was approximately 2:30 am.
"Nearing the gate, the vehicle headlights picked up something that made me stop to investigate. About seven feet off the ground was a pair of eyes that were shining whitish, not amber, red or green, right beside a medium-size hemlock. To see more clearly, I slowly drove forward until I was only about fifty feet away, and keeping the eyes in sight I slowly opened the car door and eased out. with the parked headlights and my flashlight, I could make out a dark, upright form with head, arms and upper body visible. It was still standing and waving its arms to pull the bark off the hemlock. It did not appear to be a bear. All the while the eyes were still glowing in the headlights, they were glowing whitish and appeared completely round.
"I could make out that it was chewing or mouthing something. At that point it ducked down from the place where the bark was torn off and started walking, manlike. It was walking to the left, so I whistled loudly and it startled and started walking on two legs right toward me on the road. I noticed it swayed slightly from side to side as it walked. At this point I was carrying only the flashlight and a twenty two caliber handgun. When I stopped whistling and backed up toward the car, which was still running, it turned to the northwest side of the road and into the bush. At no time did it drop down on all fours.
"Nearing the gate, the vehicle headlights picked up something that made me stop to investigate. About seven feet off the ground was a pair of eyes that were shining whitish, not amber, red or green, right beside a medium-size hemlock. To see more clearly, I slowly drove forward until I was only about fifty feet away, and keeping the eyes in sight I slowly opened the car door and eased out. with the parked headlights and my flashlight, I could make out a dark, upright form with head, arms and upper body visible. It was still standing and waving its arms to pull the bark off the hemlock. It did not appear to be a bear. All the while the eyes were still glowing in the headlights, they were glowing whitish and appeared completely round.
"I could make out that it was chewing or mouthing something. At that point it ducked down from the place where the bark was torn off and started walking, manlike. It was walking to the left, so I whistled loudly and it startled and started walking on two legs right toward me on the road. I noticed it swayed slightly from side to side as it walked. At this point I was carrying only the flashlight and a twenty two caliber handgun. When I stopped whistling and backed up toward the car, which was still running, it turned to the northwest side of the road and into the bush. At no time did it drop down on all fours.
Pg 78:
QUOTE
"On a sunday in October of '94, I was deer hunting with a friend one mile northeast of Saxman, right here on the (Revillagigiedo) island. Kevin and I had been up in the muskegs about four or five hours, it was good weather, not raining and it was about 6:00 p.m. we were beside a muskeg, in some pine and spruce, maybe eight to ten feet tall but with lots of big old logs and salal bushes. I was standing on the end of a big three-foot diameter log, looking around and Kevin was lower down to my right about fifteen feet away. Through the branches, we saw patches of what at first appeared to be a bear with grayish brown fur standing up thirty or so feet away.
"I could see a dark brown head about seven feet off the ground tearing the bark off a small pine tree. But as i watched I could see it was clearly not a bear. The left hand doing the tearing had five digits, and the skin on the palm and underside of the fingers was a real pale gray color, not dark or black like a bear's. The skin on the parts of the fingers where the hair started looked darker - a brownish gray. the fur of hair on the back of the hand was a dark brown, about two or three inches long. The jaw looked like a large human jaw, and he appeared not to notice us. I motioned for Kevin to get back on up where i was, but he was just as busy motioning me on down. I think I must have made a noise because suddenly it moved out of sight toward the other end of the big log. It may have heard me because it made a sound like a grunt.
"I could see a dark brown head about seven feet off the ground tearing the bark off a small pine tree. But as i watched I could see it was clearly not a bear. The left hand doing the tearing had five digits, and the skin on the palm and underside of the fingers was a real pale gray color, not dark or black like a bear's. The skin on the parts of the fingers where the hair started looked darker - a brownish gray. the fur of hair on the back of the hand was a dark brown, about two or three inches long. The jaw looked like a large human jaw, and he appeared not to notice us. I motioned for Kevin to get back on up where i was, but he was just as busy motioning me on down. I think I must have made a noise because suddenly it moved out of sight toward the other end of the big log. It may have heard me because it made a sound like a grunt.
So there is precedent for bark-stripping behavior on the part of sasquatch - what is done with the bark afterwards is unknown. They may be looking for grubs under the bark, or chewing and eating the interior of the bark itself - or they may be wadding the bark up into b*lls - who knows?
In Albert Ostman's 1294 account of his abduction by a family of Sasquatches (pg 110), he notes:
QUOTE
"On my way back I noticed where these people were sleeping. On the east side of this valley, there was a shelf in the mountainside, with an overhanging rock, looking something like a big undercut in a big tree about ten feet deep and thirty feet wide. The floor was covered with lots of dry moss, and they had some kind of blankets woven of narrow strips of cedar bark, packed with dry moss. They looked very practical and warm -- with no need of washing.
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
-Ray
I would just like to point out a few things that I said way back in the start of this thread before the storm, which I think some people unfortunately skimmed over:
I would also like to point out that my first post on this thread wasn't directed at Kathy at all. It was directed at whoever was calling it a bigfoot toy. I just wanted to put out my belief as to what the object was. Any time that I addressed Kathy personally, I did it with civility and professionalism. My words quoted above show this. This is my last post on this thread. There is really nothing left to say unless new information comes foreward to comment on, which IMO, is the whole purpose of this incredible forum. A forum that gives us a place to comment and debate freely, without fear of persecution or censorship resulting from stating our beliefs, no matter how unpopular they may be.
QUOTE(Volsquatch @ Dec 6 2003, 01:02 PM)
Kathy, I have always enjoyed your postings and replies, I still do, and I always look foreward to them. I respect your opinion highly, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this issue. We are here to debate the issue, and to try and come to the most logical conclusion possible.
QUOTE
It is obvious that you had no idea that she(Judy Trainor) was associated with Mary Green. That is completely understandable. I value your opinions highly Kathy, and I would very much appreciate the chance to be able to debate this issue with you further.
Clay
Clay
I would also like to point out that my first post on this thread wasn't directed at Kathy at all. It was directed at whoever was calling it a bigfoot toy. I just wanted to put out my belief as to what the object was. Any time that I addressed Kathy personally, I did it with civility and professionalism. My words quoted above show this. This is my last post on this thread. There is really nothing left to say unless new information comes foreward to comment on, which IMO, is the whole purpose of this incredible forum. A forum that gives us a place to comment and debate freely, without fear of persecution or censorship resulting from stating our beliefs, no matter how unpopular they may be.
well said Volsquatch.
QUOTE(Arkansan @ Dec 8 2003, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(JanV @ Dec 8 2003, 04:01 PM)
Where on earth is Bipto when we need him? Obviously BFF needs some serious moderation and soon.
Jan
Jan
From what? People debating and disagreeing on a topic?
Why in the world would you want to moderate that?
I haven't seen anyone using particularly foul language or doing any type of flaming on either side any worse than usual. When or if I do, I might consider locking the topic. Until then....whoever wants to question Kathy is free to do so and she is free to defend herself.
I disagree Lisa. We just see things differently. Like Sabre and Shorebreak I felt the time had come to look seriously at the direction of the discussion and remedy it if possible. I did not say that the thread should be locked. I did say moderation was needed. As it turned out two of the Moderators Fish and Paul, were so concerned about how far the tone of the discussion had degenerated that they locked the thread on two separate occasions.
I think they were right to do so. Fish was especially helpful in that I think his statement made some posters think about what was going on.
It gave everyone some breathing space which was sorely needed.
Jan
QUOTE
"On my way back I noticed where these people were sleeping. On the east side of this valley, there was a shelf in the mountainside, with an overhanging rock, looking something like a big undercut in a big tree about ten feet deep and thirty feet wide. The floor was covered with lots of dry moss, and they had some kind of blankets woven of narrow strips of cedar bark, packed with dry moss. They looked very practical and warm -- with no need of washing.
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
Read it again Ray
It doesnot say he witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
Peg
"On my way back I noticed where these people were sleeping. On the east side of this valley, there was a shelf in the mountainside, with an overhanging rock, looking something like a big undercut in a big tree about ten feet deep and thirty feet wide. The floor was covered with lots of dry moss, and they had some kind of blankets woven of narrow strips of cedar bark, packed with dry moss. They looked very practical and warm -- with no need of washing.
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
Read it again Ray
It doesnot say he witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips. Peg
Thanks, Jan. Believe it or not, I really appreciate that.
QUOTE(pegleg52 @ Dec 9 2003, 04:20 PM)
QUOTE
"On my way back I noticed where these people were sleeping. On the east side of this valley, there was a shelf in the mountainside, with an overhanging rock, looking something like a big undercut in a big tree about ten feet deep and thirty feet wide. The floor was covered with lots of dry moss, and they had some kind of blankets woven of narrow strips of cedar bark, packed with dry moss. They looked very practical and warm -- with no need of washing.
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
Read it again Ray It doesnot say he witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
Peg
"On my way back I noticed where these people were sleeping. On the east side of this valley, there was a shelf in the mountainside, with an overhanging rock, looking something like a big undercut in a big tree about ten feet deep and thirty feet wide. The floor was covered with lots of dry moss, and they had some kind of blankets woven of narrow strips of cedar bark, packed with dry moss. They looked very practical and warm -- with no need of washing.
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
Read it again Ray
It doesnot say he witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips. Peg
Peg, if good ole Albert saw the woven "blankets" and he didn't weave them for the sasquatch, who did? :rolleyes:
Fishbone
Peg, if good ole Albert saw the woven "blankets" and he didn't weave them for the sasquatch, who did?
The possibilities WHO DID are infinite , and I dont have infinite wisdom fish. That is if you believe good ole Alberts story in the first place.
Peg
Peg, if good ole Albert saw the woven "blankets" and he didn't weave them for the sasquatch, who did?
The possibilities WHO DID are infinite , and I dont have infinite wisdom fish. That is if you believe good ole Alberts story in the first place.
Peg
While everybody is simmering down, let me add my $.02.
I get IRRITATED at the BFRO -
I still consider them the most professional group investigating this phenomenon, and respect them.
They are like Microsoft - make me mad as HECK at times -
But still the absolute best at what they do!
Terry
I get IRRITATED at the BFRO -
I still consider them the most professional group investigating this phenomenon, and respect them.
They are like Microsoft - make me mad as HECK at times -
But still the absolute best at what they do!
Terry
QUOTE(AmPat @ Dec 9 2003, 04:50 PM)
They are like Microsoft - make me mad as HECK at times -
But still the absolute best at what they do!
Terry
But still the absolute best at what they do!
Terry
Well, at least the BFRO reviews reports for errors before publishing them, MS sells OS's and lets the customer find their errors
Cool. Everything is getting back to normal. I think the new idea put forward by DDA is very interesting. Good work Raven BC for finding those reports mentioning cedar bark peeling etc. We still have something made of cedar bark that looked woven but we might be getting closer. And the Ostman story which I personally believe to be true, actually backs up the weaving idea. Rick's idea seems the most plausable but if it was so light and dried out when it was found could it have been in the mouth of a Squatch? Wouldn't it be all gooey or something?? I guess if it has time to dry out it might not be. I wish Kathy were here maybe if there were pieces of it left over or saved it could be checked for saliva? I'm just spit-balling here.
Everything is getting back to normal. I think the new idea put forward by DDA is very interesting. Good work Raven BC for finding those reports mentioning cedar bark peeling etc. We still have something made of cedar bark that looked woven but we might be getting closer. And the Ostman story which I personally believe to be true, actually backs up the weaving idea. Rick's idea seems the most plausable but if it was so light and dried out when it was found could it have been in the mouth of a Squatch? Wouldn't it be all gooey or something?? I guess if it has time to dry out it might not be. I wish Kathy were here maybe if there were pieces of it left over or saved it could be checked for saliva? I'm just spit-balling here.
QUOTE(chronic @ Dec 9 2003, 05:54 PM)
QUOTE(AmPat @ Dec 9 2003, 04:50 PM)
They are like Microsoft - make me mad as HECK at times -
But still the absolute best at what they do!
Terry
But still the absolute best at what they do!
Terry
Well, at least the BFRO reviews reports for errors before publishing them, MS sells OS's and lets the customer find their errors
Windows 2000!
QUOTE(JanV @ Dec 9 2003, 04:20 PM)
We just see things differently.
You can say that again!
QUOTE(RavenBC @ Dec 9 2003, 02:37 PM)
Now, trying to add something constructive to the thread, I bought J Robert Alley's "Raincoast Sasquatch" yesterday, and came across two instances involving direct sightings of the big hairy guys stripping bark from trees - a behavior I hadn't known to have been actually observed before.
Pg. 43
Pg 78:
So there is precedent for bark-stripping behavior on the part of sasquatch - what is done with the bark afterwards is unknown. They may be looking for grubs under the bark, or chewing and eating the interior of the bark itself - or they may be wadding the bark up into balls - who knows?
In Albert Ostman's 1294 account of his abduction by a family of Sasquatches (pg 110), he notes:
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
-Ray
Pg. 43
QUOTE
"In July of 1992, I was doing security work on the Pipeline Road, now Revilla Road just north of Ward Lake, eight miles north of Ketchican. I was working the night shift driving the (then) gravel pipeline road that goes some dozen miles north from the mill. The job included driving and checking all the locked pipeline access gates. it was a clear night, I had just driven up to the gate two and the time was approximately 2:30 am.
"Nearing the gate, the vehicle headlights picked up something that made me stop to investigate. About seven feet off the ground was a pair of eyes that were shining whitish, not amber, red or green, right beside a medium-size hemlock. To see more clearly, I slowly drove forward until I was only about fifty feet away, and keeping the eyes in sight I slowly opened the car door and eased out. with the parked headlights and my flashlight, I could make out a dark, upright form with head, arms and upper body visible. It was still standing and waving its arms to pull the bark off the hemlock. It did not appear to be a bear. All the while the eyes were still glowing in the headlights, they were glowing whitish and appeared completely round.
"I could make out that it was chewing or mouthing something. At that point it ducked down from the place where the bark was torn off and started walking, manlike. It was walking to the left, so I whistled loudly and it startled and started walking on two legs right toward me on the road. I noticed it swayed slightly from side to side as it walked. At this point I was carrying only the flashlight and a twenty two caliber handgun. When I stopped whistling and backed up toward the car, which was still running, it turned to the northwest side of the road and into the bush. At no time did it drop down on all fours.
"Nearing the gate, the vehicle headlights picked up something that made me stop to investigate. About seven feet off the ground was a pair of eyes that were shining whitish, not amber, red or green, right beside a medium-size hemlock. To see more clearly, I slowly drove forward until I was only about fifty feet away, and keeping the eyes in sight I slowly opened the car door and eased out. with the parked headlights and my flashlight, I could make out a dark, upright form with head, arms and upper body visible. It was still standing and waving its arms to pull the bark off the hemlock. It did not appear to be a bear. All the while the eyes were still glowing in the headlights, they were glowing whitish and appeared completely round.
"I could make out that it was chewing or mouthing something. At that point it ducked down from the place where the bark was torn off and started walking, manlike. It was walking to the left, so I whistled loudly and it startled and started walking on two legs right toward me on the road. I noticed it swayed slightly from side to side as it walked. At this point I was carrying only the flashlight and a twenty two caliber handgun. When I stopped whistling and backed up toward the car, which was still running, it turned to the northwest side of the road and into the bush. At no time did it drop down on all fours.
Pg 78:
QUOTE
"On a sunday in October of '94, I was deer hunting with a friend one mile northeast of Saxman, right here on the (Revillagigiedo) island. Kevin and I had been up in the muskegs about four or five hours, it was good weather, not raining and it was about 6:00 p.m. we were beside a muskeg, in some pine and spruce, maybe eight to ten feet tall but with lots of big old logs and salal bushes. I was standing on the end of a big three-foot diameter log, looking around and Kevin was lower down to my right about fifteen feet away. Through the branches, we saw patches of what at first appeared to be a bear with grayish brown fur standing up thirty or so feet away.
"I could see a dark brown head about seven feet off the ground tearing the bark off a small pine tree. But as i watched I could see it was clearly not a bear. The left hand doing the tearing had five digits, and the skin on the palm and underside of the fingers was a real pale gray color, not dark or black like a bear's. The skin on the parts of the fingers where the hair started looked darker - a brownish gray. the fur of hair on the back of the hand was a dark brown, about two or three inches long. The jaw looked like a large human jaw, and he appeared not to notice us. I motioned for Kevin to get back on up where i was, but he was just as busy motioning me on down. I think I must have made a noise because suddenly it moved out of sight toward the other end of the big log. It may have heard me because it made a sound like a grunt.
"I could see a dark brown head about seven feet off the ground tearing the bark off a small pine tree. But as i watched I could see it was clearly not a bear. The left hand doing the tearing had five digits, and the skin on the palm and underside of the fingers was a real pale gray color, not dark or black like a bear's. The skin on the parts of the fingers where the hair started looked darker - a brownish gray. the fur of hair on the back of the hand was a dark brown, about two or three inches long. The jaw looked like a large human jaw, and he appeared not to notice us. I motioned for Kevin to get back on up where i was, but he was just as busy motioning me on down. I think I must have made a noise because suddenly it moved out of sight toward the other end of the big log. It may have heard me because it made a sound like a grunt.
So there is precedent for bark-stripping behavior on the part of sasquatch - what is done with the bark afterwards is unknown. They may be looking for grubs under the bark, or chewing and eating the interior of the bark itself - or they may be wadding the bark up into balls - who knows?
In Albert Ostman's 1294 account of his abduction by a family of Sasquatches (pg 110), he notes:
QUOTE
"On my way back I noticed where these people were sleeping. On the east side of this valley, there was a shelf in the mountainside, with an overhanging rock, looking something like a big undercut in a big tree about ten feet deep and thirty feet wide. The floor was covered with lots of dry moss, and they had some kind of blankets woven of narrow strips of cedar bark, packed with dry moss. They looked very practical and warm -- with no need of washing.
So at least one person has witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
-Ray
We have found trees that have had the bark stripped off of them in an area of reported Bigfoot activity. I don't know what stripped the bark off, nor am I claiming it is Bigfoot related, but it was curious. Here are 2 pictures:
stripped bark
I found this:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi...01.99019.x/abs/
Seems to support DDA wooge theory.
There is no mention of weaving.
Martin Grenfell
QUOTE
Effects of Water Availability and Habitat Quality on Bark-Stripping Behavior in Barbary Macaques
Andrea Camperio Ciani,*§ Loredana Martinoli,* Claudio Capiluppi, Mohamed Arahou, and Mohamed Mouna
Abstract:
The cedar oak forest of the Middle Atlas in Morocco is not only the last of the large forests in the southern Mediterranean, but it also contains all the surviving forest biodiversity. This forest has been severely affected by drought, overgrazing by mixed herds of goat and sheep, and excessive logging for timber, firewood, and livestock fodder. Recently, cedar bark stripping by Barbary Macaques ( Macaca sylvanus) has begun to have an effect on the forest. We investigated this behavior by monitoring a 500-km2 mosaic forest of cedar and oak in the Middle Atlas of Morocco between 1994 and 1996. We surveyed the forest 18 times in four different seasons along a 90-km transect. We recorded observations of bark stripping and a variety of quantitative ecological factors that could predict this behavior, such as livestock density, forest quality, undergrowth condition, water availability, and monkey density. The statistical analysis (including rank correlation, regression, and nonparametric variance analysis) strongly suggests that water scarcity and monkey exclusion from previously available permanent water sources are correlated with intense cedar bark-stripping behavior by macaques. The density of cedars and of monkeys appeared to be only secondary factors. As a conservation policy, making water more accessible to wild monkeys might reduce bark-stripping behavior.
Andrea Camperio Ciani,*§ Loredana Martinoli,* Claudio Capiluppi, Mohamed Arahou, and Mohamed Mouna
Abstract:
The cedar oak forest of the Middle Atlas in Morocco is not only the last of the large forests in the southern Mediterranean, but it also contains all the surviving forest biodiversity. This forest has been severely affected by drought, overgrazing by mixed herds of goat and sheep, and excessive logging for timber, firewood, and livestock fodder. Recently, cedar bark stripping by Barbary Macaques ( Macaca sylvanus) has begun to have an effect on the forest. We investigated this behavior by monitoring a 500-km2 mosaic forest of cedar and oak in the Middle Atlas of Morocco between 1994 and 1996. We surveyed the forest 18 times in four different seasons along a 90-km transect. We recorded observations of bark stripping and a variety of quantitative ecological factors that could predict this behavior, such as livestock density, forest quality, undergrowth condition, water availability, and monkey density. The statistical analysis (including rank correlation, regression, and nonparametric variance analysis) strongly suggests that water scarcity and monkey exclusion from previously available permanent water sources are correlated with intense cedar bark-stripping behavior by macaques. The density of cedars and of monkeys appeared to be only secondary factors. As a conservation policy, making water more accessible to wild monkeys might reduce bark-stripping behavior.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi...01.99019.x/abs/
Seems to support DDA wooge theory.
There is no mention of weaving.
Martin Grenfell
Here's another article on the archeology of Mt Rainer.
I think it illustrates what other activities I believe most likely take place in tandem with weaving.
The complete article can be found here:
http://www.nps.gov/mora/ncrd/arch.htm
I think it illustrates what other activities I believe most likely take place in tandem with weaving.
QUOTE
At present only 2.3% of the total land area of the park has been systematically surveyed for archeological remains. There are 79 known sites in the park, of which only 62 have been fully documented and recorded. The Native American archeological sites are primarily lithic scatters, scatters of debris from the creation and resharpening of chipped stone tools. In addition, there are a few sites that appear to have been hunting camps, kill and butchering sites, places where cedar bark was stripped from trees, caves and rock shelters, and places where tool stone was procured.
The complete article can be found here:
http://www.nps.gov/mora/ncrd/arch.htm
The Archaic Native Americans used bark for many uses.
Just under the outer skin of the growing tree is stored a wonderous supply of lacing, string and rope. This is the cambium layer - the transportation system that carries nutrients from the leaves to the rest of the tree.
Basswood was preferred, followed by the Slippery Elm, White Oak, Hickory, White Cedar and Red Cedar.
Bark is easilly separated in the spring when the sap is running. A 2 to 4 inch cut was made at the base of the tree. The bark is loosened above the cut and striped upwards as easily as peeling off ones socks. The strip, gradually tapering , will usually pull free near the top.
The fresh strip may be used on the spot for coarse lashings for such as lying wigwam saplings. Bend the supple belt of bark away from the outer layer. The hard rough surface will snap and be easily peeled back from the slippery inner layer of fibers. Narrow strips may be split off by jabbing a knife in a log, then separating the inner fibers by pulling against the knife blade. The lacings could be used while damp or could be hung to dry. An hour or so of soaking in water made them pliable again for sewing or weaving.
Smaller fiber strips were used much as cotton, and just as soft, for making items such as nets, mats, bags, robes, mantles, and belts.
Just under the outer skin of the growing tree is stored a wonderous supply of lacing, string and rope. This is the cambium layer - the transportation system that carries nutrients from the leaves to the rest of the tree.
Basswood was preferred, followed by the Slippery Elm, White Oak, Hickory, White Cedar and Red Cedar.
Bark is easilly separated in the spring when the sap is running. A 2 to 4 inch cut was made at the base of the tree. The bark is loosened above the cut and striped upwards as easily as peeling off ones socks. The strip, gradually tapering , will usually pull free near the top.
The fresh strip may be used on the spot for coarse lashings for such as lying wigwam saplings. Bend the supple belt of bark away from the outer layer. The hard rough surface will snap and be easily peeled back from the slippery inner layer of fibers. Narrow strips may be split off by jabbing a knife in a log, then separating the inner fibers by pulling against the knife blade. The lacings could be used while damp or could be hung to dry. An hour or so of soaking in water made them pliable again for sewing or weaving.
Smaller fiber strips were used much as cotton, and just as soft, for making items such as nets, mats, bags, robes, mantles, and belts.
Sorry - I missed that.
Windows crashed - -
Terry
Windows crashed - -
Terry
QUOTE(pegleg52 @ Dec 9 2003, 04:20 PM)
Read it again Ray It doesnot say he witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips.
Peg
It doesnot say he witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips. Peg
You're splitting hairs Pegleg - what, you think they bought them at Walmart?
-Ray
QUOTE(RavenBC @ Dec 9 2003, 07:20 PM)
You're splitting hairs Pegleg - what, you think they bought them at Walmart?
-Ray
-Ray
Oh come on Ray !!!!!
Everyone knows bigfoots dont like Wal-mart ... they prefer stores like Bass Pro Shops or Cabelas
QUOTE(RavenBC @ Dec 9 2003, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE(pegleg52 @ Dec 9 2003, 04:20 PM)
Read it again Ray
It doesnot say he witnessed Sasquatches fashioning items out of woven cedar strips. Peg
You're splitting hairs Pegleg - what, you think they bought them at Walmart?
-Ray
Ok Ray
Try this as a posibility....I hate the posibility game.
The Archaic Native Americans used bark for many uses.
Just under the outer skin of the growing tree is stored a wonderous supply of lacing, string and rope. This is the cambium layer - the transportation system that carries nutrients from the leaves to the rest of the tree.
Basswood was preferred, followed by the Slippery Elm, White Oak, Hickory, White Cedar and Red Cedar.
Bark is easilly separated in the spring when the sap is running. A 2 to 4 inch cut was made at the base of the tree. The bark is loosened above the cut and striped upwards as easily as peeling off ones socks. The strip, gradually tapering , will usually pull free near the top.
The fresh strip may be used on the spot for coarse lashings for such as lying wigwam saplings. Bend the supple belt of bark away from the outer layer. The hard rough surface will snap and be easily peeled back from the slippery inner layer of fibers. Narrow strips may be split off by jabbing a knife in a log, then separating the inner fibers by pulling against the knife blade. The lacings could be used while damp or could be hung to dry. An hour or so of soaking in water made them pliable again for sewing or weaving.
Smaller fiber strips were used much as cotton, and just as soft, for making items such as nets, mats, bags, robes, mantles, and belts.
Martin Grenfell Posted on Dec 9 2003, 06:24 PM
Here's another article on the archeology of Mt Rainer.
I think it illustrates what other activities I believe most likely take place in tandem with weaving.
Lets see, do you think it might be possible that BF FOUND these articles that were discarded by Native Americans.
Ray if you had read my earlier post to fishbones question you would have seen I have already answered it once.
Fishbone
Peg, if good ole Albert saw the woven "blankets" and he didn't weave them for the sasquatch, who did?
The possibilities WHO DID are infinite , and I dont have infinite wisdom fish. That is if you believe good ole Alberts story in the first place.
Peg
Playing the posibility game just dont work Ray.
Peg
QUOTE(pegleg52 @ Dec 9 2003, 06:51 PM)
....A 2 to 4 inch cut was made at the base of the tree....
Alright....that's it....I'm warnin' you...don't make me ask how much it weighed!
<- Opens mouth to speak...realizes the argument's already over...wishes he had the last two hours of his life back.
Aw, c'mon Bipto - I think the old horse is still twitching! 
Doubtfull - if a crude blanket made of moss and woven cedar strips were discarded in the damp west coast environment for more than a few days, it would be quickly rendered unusable by man or beast.
All we have are possiblilties in this field - some more probable than others - we have very few facts and evidence regarding this animal.
While Ostman didn't observe the animals crafting the "blanket" they used, for me at least, its a far greater leap of logic to conclude that they found it lying around the forest, rather than it being an item they constructed themselves.
Back to "Raincoast Sasquatch" by J Robert Alley, he devotes a chapter to possible bigfoot nests found in Alaska - on p 241, he relates the tale of a Ketchikan logging engineer who came upon a possible sasquatch nest in 1988 near Kalwock Lake on Prince of Wales Island, which was subsequently examined on a number of occasions by forestry professionals and a state biologist.
Hair and fecal samples were gathered, along with a parasitic louse. The hairs were examined and by the state biologist and determined to be from of an unknown animal; the louse was "verified as known only to be associated with a species found in Asia."
Alley recounts a few more tales of gorilla-like nests found in Alaska and the BC coast, and how they differ from bear nests in the area, making particular note of their woven appearance.
Anyway, there are scientific-minded researchers out there who are looking into the posibility that sasquatch, with their human-like hands, may be capable of weaving cedar bark for their own ends.
I still think Volsquatch's theory that the cedar ball might be an elk cud seems likely in this case, but at least there is some anecdotal evidence for the possibility that sasquatch do make items with woven strips of cedar bark.
-Ray
QUOTE(pegleg52 @ Dec 9 2003, 08:51 PM)
Lets see, do you think it might be possible that BF FOUND these articles that were discarded by Native Americans.
Doubtfull - if a crude blanket made of moss and woven cedar strips were discarded in the damp west coast environment for more than a few days, it would be quickly rendered unusable by man or beast.
All we have are possiblilties in this field - some more probable than others - we have very few facts and evidence regarding this animal.
While Ostman didn't observe the animals crafting the "blanket" they used, for me at least, its a far greater leap of logic to conclude that they found it lying around the forest, rather than it being an item they constructed themselves.
Back to "Raincoast Sasquatch" by J Robert Alley, he devotes a chapter to possible bigfoot nests found in Alaska - on p 241, he relates the tale of a Ketchikan logging engineer who came upon a possible sasquatch nest in 1988 near Kalwock Lake on Prince of Wales Island, which was subsequently examined on a number of occasions by forestry professionals and a state biologist.
QUOTE
"I noticed a patch of huckeberry bushes on the hillside below me that had been broken off uniformly at the four or five foot height. Looking closer,I found a large nest of crudely woven huckelberry branches and cedar barks strips and boughs, lined with mosses and more bark. The circular nest was about seven and one half feet on the outside with a four and one half foot diameter hollow part inside. It was uncovered, but well-placed on the lower side of a downhill leaning red cedar with lots of live feathery boughs hanging directly over the nest, like a natural shingle roof. It was on about a ten-foot wide gentle bench, beyond which a series of small cliffs dropped on down the hill nail or claw marks on the tree showed where materials had been gathered, and the surrounding ground was stripped of grasses also.
"In my experience", Muench continued, "most bears hibernate in a convenient windfall den, hollow tree or similar partial shelter, with little or no preparation or housekeeping. I have also seen where mother bears will pull in moss, grass or brush tips, probably to warm and soften the place a bit for their cubs. However, this was quite different. Not only were the nest materials somewhat woven together in a way that no bear could do, but the huckleberry bushes had been broken off cleanly, as though two hands had bent the stems so sharp that they could not splinter.
"In my experience", Muench continued, "most bears hibernate in a convenient windfall den, hollow tree or similar partial shelter, with little or no preparation or housekeeping. I have also seen where mother bears will pull in moss, grass or brush tips, probably to warm and soften the place a bit for their cubs. However, this was quite different. Not only were the nest materials somewhat woven together in a way that no bear could do, but the huckleberry bushes had been broken off cleanly, as though two hands had bent the stems so sharp that they could not splinter.
Hair and fecal samples were gathered, along with a parasitic louse. The hairs were examined and by the state biologist and determined to be from of an unknown animal; the louse was "verified as known only to be associated with a species found in Asia."
QUOTE
... Al Jackson made the comment to me in 1999 that in at least two other photographs which he had seen, the huckleberry and small strips of cedar in the nest appeared not simply woven, but "actually braided together". According to Jackson a Ketchikan biologist, who showed much interest in the nest, said it resembled "gorilla nests" that he had seen in Africa.
Alley recounts a few more tales of gorilla-like nests found in Alaska and the BC coast, and how they differ from bear nests in the area, making particular note of their woven appearance.
Anyway, there are scientific-minded researchers out there who are looking into the posibility that sasquatch, with their human-like hands, may be capable of weaving cedar bark for their own ends.
I still think Volsquatch's theory that the cedar ball might be an elk cud seems likely in this case, but at least there is some anecdotal evidence for the possibility that sasquatch do make items with woven strips of cedar bark.
-Ray
Raven BC said:
Do you know where I can find those reports metioned above?
Cheers,
Martin
QUOTE
Hair and fecal samples were gathered, along with a parasitic louse. The hairs were examined and by the state biologist and determined to be from of an unknown animal; the louse was "verified as known only to be associated with a species found in Asia."
Do you know where I can find those reports metioned above?
Cheers,
Martin
QUOTE(RavenBC @ Dec 10 2003, 01:49 AM)
I still think Volsquatch's theory that the cedar ball might be an elk cud seems likely in this case, but at least there is some anecdotal evidence for the possibility that sasquatch do make items with woven strips of cedar bark.
-Ray
-Ray
Only one problem with that -
There are no Elk here.
Terry
Yeah, Robert In East Tennessee Not out where AmPat Place near far Center of the state.
8. How far will elk travel?
It is difficult to say how far elk will travel as their movement patterns are largely determined by habitat. In western areas elk are very mobile mostly in response to availability of suitable habitat which may be influenced by weather conditions. In the eastern states that have elk, elk movements have been a lot less than that seen in western states. Michigan, for example, has an elk herd of 1300-1500 elk that are maintained on 512,000 acres. It is expected that the elk herd in Tennessee will approach this size and that the 670,000 acres of the restoration zone should contain suitable habitat to maintain this herd. It is also expected, as has occurred in most eastern elk releases, that a few animals will wander off of the restoration area.
copied and pasted from here
It is difficult to say how far elk will travel as their movement patterns are largely determined by habitat. In western areas elk are very mobile mostly in response to availability of suitable habitat which may be influenced by weather conditions. In the eastern states that have elk, elk movements have been a lot less than that seen in western states. Michigan, for example, has an elk herd of 1300-1500 elk that are maintained on 512,000 acres. It is expected that the elk herd in Tennessee will approach this size and that the 670,000 acres of the restoration zone should contain suitable habitat to maintain this herd. It is also expected, as has occurred in most eastern elk releases, that a few animals will wander off of the restoration area.
copied and pasted from here
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