Class A; August 2007; Washington, Yakima County

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Ok, Wow.

Those images are amazing!

Are these the same images that were discussed last month at the Yakima Bigfoot Roundup?

edit: I guess I better read all of it first before getting too excited.

Seeing that Bart is the researcher automatically, IMO, gives the report a lot of credibility.

I thought it might be this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfGSiAuVt8...PL&index=27

I would be curious to see the pics without the drawn in stuff, if it is clear then they are really amazing shots of BF or a guy in a BF suit. I am not saying it's fake but I predict alot more thermal images coming out due to the fact that it is easier to hide a bad costume on thermal.

Bart wrote that these images are re-creations due to the fact that the thermal unit in use at the time was "not self-recordable like a camcorder."



His description of the actions of the creature he saw is one of the most detailed and interesting descriptions I've ever read.

No. The thermal images shown at the Yakima Bigfoot Roundup were taken in North Carolina.

I understand that they are recreations, so there are no actual pictures? I must have misunderstood, I thought they had thermal video and these were just recreated stills. I will go back and read it again.

I will reserve judgment until I see the actual images.

What the heck is this?! While it may be an interesting report, the white-out doctored pics are really over the top silly. I realize that they are only for illustration of what happened but they were not neccessary. I'm also surprised that an orginization committed to discovering and documenting the existence of BF is always unprepared or has trouble with it's recording equipment when an event happens - It was pointed in a different direction, so & so had it somewhere else, it wasn't set up yet, etc. I know it was just a personal NV scope without a recorder but everyone should have had a walkie-talkie to call for back up. Or better yet, have more than one recorder. You have to be ready for an event at ANY time, otherwise you are just camping - IMO.

Maybe I'm being overly critical. I just don't see what all of the excitement is for and why it is such a lengthy report when in the end nothing is proven either way - it's just another sighting report.

Yeah, I jumped to conclusions from just a precursory scan of the report. Still they help to illustrate his description very well. I don't know of anyone else ever seeing a bf behave that way - sort of in stealth mode. No wonder they are so hard to spot with moves like that.

OK I guess Bart is well known and a good guy and has a great restaurant and he seems to care deeply about this subject. I get all that. So, on account of that, choosing to take this whole report as bona fide, I wonder about a couple of things.

1. I have never been on one of these BF hunts (but hope to have the time to do my own some day), but guitar playing and group campfires? And one guy topped off on hops goes out and pees in the woods and then hears something that causes him to ask another guy to dig the research gear out of the back of the truck? This sounds more like a social event. Not to criticize, however. If they set up all the base camps, etc. and got nothing and then only when they pack up and start partying does the big guy start slithering in for a look...What does that tell you? Have more parties and less outlying camps, and this time have your gear ready?

2. I do not remember reading any such close and detailed observation about BF senses. Taking this at face value, BF can see very well in pitch dark, has acute hearing that can filter small sounds from din, is immensely strong and lithe, is extremely quiet (but still steps on cracking twigs?), and is curious about ...Parties!

LL

If by Paul G he means Paul Graves, then Bart and Cliff and Paul are very credible. I can't conceive that there is anything fabricated about their experiences, there's just no need.

At first this strikes me as odd as a recreation of a thermal after the VA revelation, but this is detailed and I think I understand why reporting it now seems more credible. I just wonder why it wasn't posted earlier.

There is no slight in my statement, so don't read anything more in to it.


.

It's always something.
If it was the correct kind of unit, it wouldn't have been turned on, if it was turned on then the batteries would have been dead, if the batteries were fully charged than it would have been struck by a stray coconut seconds before the squatch emerged from the woods.

Just to answer a few points brought up and I'm more then happy to.

If I had recorded thermal images I would never attempt to do re-creations of those images and keep them publicly concealed. It'd be nice if people would READ the account before speculating and commenting (before providing everyone their personal final "judgement" LOL).

Second, I'm sorry I took so long to do an actual report, (there's no underlying reason for the timing) it's been an unbelievable last year and a half (more on the negative) that those that know me personally know about, and I just didn't take the time to do it and consolidate everything as I remember it. However, I've never hesitated to discuss it at length here at BFF in various threads and elsewhere, as well as discuss it at length on a few internet-related radio shows.

On one of those radio shows I regretfully took full responsibility for the failure of poor preperation & not having the subject recorded. But in reality, only one person (Cliff) had the thermal equipment and had the imagers been pre-stationed, I would not personally know after many years of interest that what we pursue is in fact, "real." So in that aspect, I make no apologies and if you have no experience with the equipment it's very, very easy to say could've, should've, would've.
In hindsight, if I had the choice of knowing for myself and gambling not knowing at all, I'd choose knowing for myself moving forward.
Also this wasn't a BFRO expedition, it was both a private social gathering & expedition into our WA-BFRO research area.

Furthermore, if you were to tell me that I would have personal confirmation on a night when a bunch of my research friends were that close nearby, out of the hundreds of nights I 've been out in the field, I'd tell you you're nuts. But that's how it happened and I stand by my account presented 110%, and always have. King Kaiju is absolutely right, it's a anecdotal report and that's it. As far as his opinion on rather I should've bothered doing re-creations....well that's fine, so I guess we shouldn't ask purported witnesses for any details they recall from their claimed encounters either because it doesn't prove anything, right?

And I resent the suggestion that I was at all intoxicated Lab Lover. I don't expect anyone to just accept my account based on if a I'm a good guy or not, and I absolutely wasn't intoxicated and had one beer (not domestic) a while before the encounter with dinner. A matter of fact, I could tell you what the chocolate milkshake I had at approximately 3:00 PM that day from Marble Slab Creamery tasted like on the way back from Seattle (very watery & I'll stick with Cold Stone). I will also tell you that I don't believe one person in that mentioned congregation area was at all intoxicated as I don't recall "hard liquor" of any kind being consumed by anybody there.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have but don't go making insinuations based on assumption. It is what it is, and if something was opinionated or subjective in nature I stated such & added the details as I recall--- I'd want to question had I been investigating the account from someone else. Also, I apologize for the length, but in sharing my experience, I tried to answer many of the questions previously asked of me the last two years from that night from many interested in the subject and what happened from my perspective. Had the encounter ended after 20 or so seconds, without seeing the full subject I would be absolutely curious, but unsure of what I saw (likely assuming it was just a person). Fortunately for me, there was almost another two minutes of watching the subject and being able to clearly discern & identify it, where I'd bet anything I have or love that I'm certain what the subject was that night, period. Take it or leave it, but I'll tell ya, before getting re-married and having my first child, there wasn't a more special night to me in my 35 years of life.

I'd like to add a point here, if that's ok with everybody...

Those of you in the law enforcement field know that a witness will make subtle changes to a fictional story over time. It's one of the easiest ways to determine the truth of the witness.

Well, I spoke with Bart on the phone way back in late 2007 when I first took an active interest in Bigfoot. I just read the published report, and I can verify that every detail in the report matches exactly with what Bart and I spoke about back in 2007. The only thing missing from the report is the sheer excitement in Bart's voice when he talks about it.

Also something to keep in mind: back then, recording the output of a thermal imager was a McGyver episode in the making. To borrow from the Brits, a setup like this was "bodged" together. And there were only a few such setups out in the field, to my knowledge. If Bart had not been with Cliff, there probably would have been no recorder available, and there probably wouldn't have been a thermal at all. Most thermal imagers also did not have a recordable video output, so all of this has to be taken in the proper context/timeframe.

Bart got lucky. Really lucky!
And if I was him, I'd have plunked down about $100 on Lotto tickets the next day.

Yes, it's an anectdotal report. But it's also a lot more than that. It was a huge learning experience for all of us. We can all take a good look at this report and learn how it all went down, what the BF may have been curious about, and a whole slew of technical issues we can avoid.

Complain if you will, but think about the things you WOULDN'T know if the report had not been published.

Bart,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hmph.

The report Bart,,,,,,,,,you Bart,,,,,,,,,okok,,,,,,,,,,now I get it. So THIS is what you were talking about in our previous discussions about the Greene video.

I didn't put the pieces together till I saw your post. Cliff,,,,,,,,the report Cliff. Your techy friend Cliff.

Now I can put your posts into a better picture of what you've experienced with that imager. You've seen it with one. Don't think that finalized until now. I would have had a stroke, methinks. I still haven't had a chance to get out there with mine, yet. Vehicle issues.

Just one thing. Next time you all decide to get a troup like that up here again, you better let me know.

Graz

I respect anyone who goes into the woods to do serious research. And I'm not saying you weren't serious. This may or may not have been an official "search" I don't know, I wasn't there. As I read the begining of the report I got the impression it was more or less an official outing with a large number of BFRO members attending. As I read on it seemed to be more of a group of friends hanging out camping. In either case the group appeared to be unprepared - IMO.

I absolutely believe relevant details should be added to any report - regardless of length. As I read the report, I got the impression of an excited individual relaying what they had just seen, as opposed to the report being relayed by a field investigator.

As for the illustrations -

White-out on a snapshot? I just thought that was really odd and an unprofessional way to illustrate what had happened. Perhaps something made with photoshop would have been more appropriate? Again, just my opinion.

KK, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion. But...if that's really the extent of your criticism....doing my best to creatively re-create (with I admit, a bit limited artistic ability) what I saw, using white-out instead of "photoshop" & an "excited individual" relaying an account almost two years after the fact.... I'll kindly also ask you to point us in the direction of a physical example of a "field investigator" you find acceptable to meet your standards.
In doing so, I'd also like to extend an invitiation to you personally, since you're from NorCal (where I am often) to show me & my fellow researcher companions how it's done preperation-wise. I can give you some late July dates if you like. I believe in putting one's money where their mouth is, and absolutely would welcome you on a friendly basis to join us for a few nights and you can report back here or wherever and share your first hand thoughts on my professionalism or lack therof, in addition to what you taught any of us or what you may've learned. I mean that sincerely, just shoot me a PM if you're interested.
Last time I invited someone from one of the forums they had a severe meltdown and I dodged a bullet by not having to take them out, but I'm willing to give it one more try. Afterall, what do I have to lose really...if you turn out to be a good guy that brings something to the table knowledge or experience-wise, that's great for us & you. If you turn out to be some internet freak show, the guys will never let me live it down and we'll have a few good laughs over it for years to come. It's a win, win, either way.

Yup, just yours. What part of white on black bothers you so? Save the photoshop for the VS models and Playboy.

Why can't BFRO members and friends both be subsets of the same group? Do they need to be evenly devided in camps?

How prepared does a group have to be to be qualified by you? Do they need sandbags and assault rifles? Night vision? Radar? Sharks with lasers on their heads? Should they have painted their faces all camo looking and lay prone in absolute silence with fingers on triggers for media and weapons?

I'm ok with it, it's an ILL U STRA TION

White out, sharpies, crayons, who care. We get it.



.

Hey Bart, how come you never invite me out to join you guys? At least you know what your getting with me!

LOL, you know you and Jakey are always welcome you son of a gun.

Bart, can you offer any insight into the creature's strange ground locomotion? Is this commonly reported behavior?

Elusive A-

You know, what blew me away is the agileness & how the subject appeared to maximize leverage when transitioning on the ground (with such a massive upper body in relationship to the lower body). I think any other insight I could give would be subjective (I know I included a bit of that in the report). I'll just say that rather on the ground or standing up, the subject didn't look, behave or move like us. The only time it looked human to me is when I could barely see it at all initially & my brain rationally thought person until proven otherwise with it stepping out into the clear before dropping down.

To be honest, I also don't recall one witness I've personally interviewed that didn't describe just a bipedal subject encounter of some type (have heard of a few all-four situations though throughout the years from others). But I'd argue now that it would probably be reported more often if it weren't for the fact that if you can't see a large subject nocturnally without the benefit of a heat-sensing device and it's grounded, it's unlikely someone would assume it's a uncatalogued creature (typically associated with bipedal locomotion, if even real) over other indigenous, large, "recognized" mammal candidates...just my opinion.

Also, if anyone has fellow CA researcher and my good friend, David Paulides' awsome new book "Tribal Bigfoot," on page 314 there's a sketch done by Harvey Pratt of a sasquatch seen in Hoopa (another of our CA research areas) by witness McCovey. I was just telling David the other day that this particular knee-to-head sketch & the adjacent, mini side-head profile sketch, is very striking in comparison to the proportioned subject I saw that night. The only deviation I recall is more wide V-shape from the waist into the Lats then the sketched subject, but man, it's damn close & very distinct. Obviously can't tell you about facial detail because I didn't see any through a therm and that distance. But those who don't have his new book, do yourself a favor and pick it up. Phenomenal layout, well-written with lots of info, sketches, pics, witness pics (many of whom I've had an opportunity to interview as well previously) etc....

Bart,

Thank you for the invite but I respectfully decline. I have no intention of showing you how to do anything. What you and the BFRO do in the woods after dark is your business and I have no desire to participate. But when you post that business for all the public to see on the net then that invites people to praise or criticize that business or to discuss it much like we are doing now. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

Your artistic ability is not in question, your choice of medium is. I apologize for the Photoshop remark, a vain attempt at humor.

My definition of prepared? - Is . . . being ready for action (everyone quiet at their posts and ready to rock . . . OK and maybe some camo paint and a Rambo knife) BEFORE sundown, not having to dig for equipment out of a truck, not having the group huddled together playing the guitar, EVERY team member having instant communications with every other team member (this one is just plain common sense for safety reasons), . . .

Oh, and "my way" would involve an armored van, some 50cal gunplay and maybe the use of some explosives. Captured if possible, dead if necessary. I would not be there to take pictures.

I thought the white out, over black and white prints, was rather a good presentation, of as close to a thermal image as possible. That huge whiteout brush isn't easy to manipulate, for any kind of detail.

If anything brings in a BF out of curiousity, it's a noisy camp at night. The complete darkness out there is perfect for them to get close enough to watch. Interesting how it layed down, like some kid watching t.v. I couldn't get that image with the verbal description. BF's night vision capabilities show some limitations at a distance, but the "excited" snapping of fingers and trying to get the guys attention, woke the BF up, sensing a change in the energy of the camp, an empathic aptitude. How do you communicate that situation without causing a change in the camps energy, and allerting the BF that you know it's there. Good to think about for the future.

<squelch>BEEP "guys, don't make a move,,,,,act natural.",,,,,,,,<squelch>BEEP ",,,,guys,,,,,,,,GUYS,,,,,,put,,,,,the,,,,,,,,guns,,,,,,,,,down.",,,,,,<squelch>BEEP "crap, where'd it go"

As far as being "ready", I would have had my thermal up and ready to record earlier, but hey. I wasn't there to judge everyone's "readiness". The "camo" people always make me laugh. Camo only works on people, and makes em feel all harumph and stuff. Flat black, ninja style, is better anyways. I imagine Bf "sees right through that". If you want BF to come in and watch you, be human, noisey, bull in the china closet. The BF would feel more comfortable coming closer, if it thought we were distracted, and it's own presence was covered by the human noises. I personally would have myself and a couple of others, on vigilance with the thermal and some ear amplifiers, on the edges of the camp, while everyone was relaxing and enjoying each others company.

All of this aside, it's Barts experience, and like everyone elses experience reported on BFRO, it's totally subjective. No one else saw it, and it wasn't recorded in any way "scientifically". Just like all the other reports listed on BFRO. Learn what you want from it. Move on.

<squelch>BEEP,,,,,,,roger that

Graz

I had a feeling that would be your response but as long as you know I was being sincere.
Again, this is not about the BFRO, as I get out frequently with researchers from all over and it's not the only Org I belong to, nor was this event a BFRO expedition. Criticism & praise are both great, but it means more when it comes from somebody who has some sense in what they are talking about. For example, so far in this thread, it's been insinuated I'm possibly hiding real thermal images, my choice of a "medium" to re-create images was unprofessional, I was assumed intoxicated, I sound like an excited individual (I was, but Spazmo seems to contend I did a decent job hiding that emotion & excitment from the report). But hey, at least my restaurant got a plug, right? If this is a discussion, I'd expect people to maybe ask a question like, "hey Bart, I admit, I don't know much about thermal equipment, but why does it seem there's so many failures" & "what would you do differently?" Instead people (especially on a forum) like to speak from an authoritative stance because the perception they feel it creates empowers them a bit. Hey I know the drill KK, I see it all the time.



No need to apologize, it's been my experience that bad jokes are usually the norm and not the exception around here.



Just to give you the appropriate scene...again, this was a mixed social gathering/expedition and certainly not indicative of how we typically do business in the field (but either is hiding in bushes playing Rambo). Everyone had been "just" bigfooting the two nights before and not doing much socializing. This was the last night for everybody except six of us and people wanted to have some time to enjoy each others company (it's not like we see our WA friends more then once a year). Only two imagers were available and in the possession of one person who'd been out for three weeks straight & still managed to sneak in a Coast to Coast interview on the road. Had the imagers been pre-stationed & committed, we not only would've been unsuccessful, but I don't see one either, period. How do I know? Because at the time there's no way in hell we'd have pre-stationed one of the units down that pathway while everybody was so near (today, I'd consider differently). Furthermore, even today with an improved thermal set-up, you still don't walk around with these things as much as say, drive with them, because they give off a tremendous amount of light with an attached DVR. Had I successfully gotten Cliff's attention, all that could've happened was him having the opportunity to just see it. Again to record, I would've had to retreat with the unit and it would need to be set-up on a helmet mount in late 2007 with the appropriate connecting gear-- there was no other way around that then.
And no, it would've been implausible to have someone wearing that gear for more then 30 minutes at a time & hiding in the bushes or walking around camp. Those aren't excuses, they are facts that people who've used proprietary units understand are limitiations with the equipment. When we get self-recordable handheld thermal units that give off as minimal light as a current bear unit, we are in business in this field, big time! That's the current equipment objective that several of us are working on either directly or indirectly through distributors.




Hey, what do you know? I dodged another bullet.....literally...phew



Something I will never take for granted again and I hate to say this, but "use" the people who are socializing to your benefit, be prepared & pay attention when others aren't. If I could tell anyone anything to keep in mind it's this: if it happens, it'll likely not be either the night or situation you previously envisioned.



That's it in a nutshell, just feels good for me to finally have it all consolidated.

B:

My apologies for offending you with my guess that you had a beer. That has been my personal experience of group campfire social events and why people leave the group to pee in the woods. That's all. But you cleared that up. It did not occur to me that bringing that up would discredit the report. What really interested me about your report was that the BF appeared to come forward out of curiousity, instead of fleeing as usual. Your subject appears to be coming forward drawn by something. Isn't that what you meant? Because there is nothing else in the report about what might have lured him in I guessed it was the party noises? If by the way others were having wine or beer, that could have changed the noise made by a group (more loud laughing, etc.), which seems worthwhile to think about. But what do you think drew him in? And surely you must have an idea about meaning to the upraised hand - a signal to another behind him? Shielding himself from something?


By the way I thought the white images extremely helpful to understand what you were describing in words.

LL

No problem Lab L, glad you liked the re-creations. If I have any regrets it's that I didn't take more time on them. Also, the reason I was defensive regarding alcohol is that I don't get tanked "in the field" under any circumstance, I'm known for peeing like a horse in frequency regardless of consumption & I'm understandably used to people creating premature assumptions based off what little info they have.

As for the subject, it never came forward. It spent about 20% of the encounter behind the big tree, about 40% on all fours (knees down) adjacent to that tree & about 40%-- about 5 yards back with its back to me. Your guess is as good as mine what lured it in in the first place but it could be any combination of the previous two nights callblasting, the conversing and music from that congregation area, the fact that elk hunters field dress elk in this site periodically. Regardless, being 30-35 yds back from that congregation area (that was also covered in high vegetation on the backside near the pathway) in pitch black, no one would have a clue it was there.

I don't know about the purpose of the hand up, but those five digits were clearly spread and easily discernable. Could either be a reflex of the subject, knowing it's been made out in the dark (I'd been watching it for almost a minute when it did it) or maybe it could see the small pinkish light that eminates from the X200xp eyepiece? I'm more interested in what the breast-stroke-like motion displayed by the subject was. I say "breast-stroke" because it's the closest thing I can visually identify with what it looked like.
From my perspective, what was also remarkable was that the subject stayed motionless for quite a while with its back to me (obviously attempting to be stealth and dexterious). Interesting how others have reported this type of behavior during daytime seeing the big black snag no longer there for example (like a blend in, chameleon type-effect). It makes sense, stop moving and you shouldn't continue to be seen with no obvious light source ("we" usually need benefit of nocturnally) in your direction.

Mr Bart,

Did the "agility" of it's movements leave you with a...hmmm, unsettled feeling? I don't know how else to phrase it...comparing to other animals that you've seen in person or on video did the movements remind you of anything that you've ever seen before (even like in a fictional movie) or was it completely foreign?

Bart,

Good report. I wonder, what your actions may have been, had you not been waiting for Cliff to find his other equipment? Do you think you may have tried walking slowly towards the subject down the trail to get a better look?

Also, I hope this report is helpful to those out there planning on using thermal imaging equipment in the future, epecially those who may be armed. It sounds like from your report that you weren't 100% sure whether or not what you were observing was human or not, until you saw the difference in size compared to your buddy. Even then I assume you're not 100% sure that what you saw was "one". We can only hope that an armed person using thermal doesn't rush to judgement, epecially if others are nearby.

Thanks again for the report, Chinook Pass and points South and East are awesome squatch country!

Hogsback

Bart,

Great job on the report and reproduction of the thermal images. I know you are getting bombarded by questions but that is because your experience is a rare glimpse into the behavoir and characteristics of these animals and worthy of consideration. There's so much to learn from it. Thank you for your willingness to share.

Ok, of course that means I have some questions too. Can you explain a bit more about the breast stroke type activity. Were the hands coming into contact with the ground or moving leaf litter? Could you interpret it as a possible form of communication to other BF in the area ... sort of shuing them away? That behaviour is very intriguing.

The convulsive movement in response to your finger snaps. How do you analyze that? Was it a nervous reaction? Did it appear to be summing up its retreat options each time? Can you describe the convulsive movement with more detail ... like was it turning its head away from you or simply engaging in indecisive actions that transitioned from one to the next?

Ok, last question(s). Immediately before, during or after this thermal session, did you scan the area for any other thermal targets? Any evidence of other Bf in the area at the same time or do you think this guy was a loner?

I'm sure you took in and processed much more information that night than was documented in your report. You may not remember it all but it had to have been processed and catagorized within your thoughts concerning that night. For that reason, feel free to speculate on your answers as I also value your subjective opinion.

Congratulations on this sighting. It's been a fun experience to follow on the BFRO report and now here. I wish you even more significant BF experiences.

Hi Bart, thanks for this detailed report. There have been a couple now on the BFRO site and there refreshing to read. After all, 'the devil is in the detail' as they say. I was wondering about the breast stoke thing. Maybe it sensed you just before it started this action. There supposed to give off a mighty stink too, maybe from glands under the arms just like gorillas. i wonder if he was wafting the smell about with his arms in a defensive manner? which way was the wind blowing?

Megatarsal

Completely foreign and very "surreal" to see one through an imager from my perspective. I always joke that although I really thought I'd never see one (at least in the wild) I did fantasize what it would be like since I was a kid.... kinda like a woman would her wedding day (sorry for the dig girls ) & that thought was either a lucky brief road crossing at best or possibly seeing one break through the treeline in a split second at worst. Never in my wildest dreams would it be through a heat-sensing unit like that. Also, it moved like an agile animal, but didn't look like it should be able to by it's build...does that make any sense?



Hey Hogsback-

Great question. I absolutely would've pursued the subject on foot had the unit been self-recordable. That's easy to say now, but it's absolutely true and it's not because I'm some fearless researcher....it's because it was so odd, surreal & unexpected that it wasn't scary when you take into consideration seeing physical distance from yourself and the subject. That, coupled with the psychological comfort in having so many freinds nearby. On a lighter moon night where I could just clearly see the black silohuette of the subject & can't visually determine distance....that might be a little different, LOL.



Actually I was 110% sure after the subject stepped away from the tree, right before hitting the deck. The last 40 seconds or so however was the most telling because the subject was just standing there glowing with its back to me (almost like you'd request someone to stand there and not move so I can check you out). The distinctive profile was just so incredible to see. The feeling was "I'm looking at something most people don't believe could be real, but there it is right in front of me." Comparing sizes with Paul Graves was jawdropping because with the depth perception I didn't realize how big it really was until I saw Paul back there. Being able to see and make out everything Paul was wearing from that distance in the clear was pretty cool too. But your point is well taken about not jumping to conclusions about thermal, and I'll tell you now, if the only thing I saw was the first 20 seconds, I would still be unsure & would never tell somebody, "yes," I'm absolutely certain. It's what happened during the last 80-85% of the encounter that was undeniable to me (and frankly would've been to a relatively young child as well in my estimation) from a personal standpoint.

Thanks...that's one thing that has bothered me for a long time, just how it moved being sooo big and sooo agile. It made me feel very vulnerable, small, weak & pathetic, LOL!

OK Bart, thanks for clearing that up a bit. That paints a different picture now. Nothing wrong with friends hanging out on the last night after an expidition. The atmosphere is relaxed, equipment put away - I get it now.

I have some experience with NV equipment but I can assure you I am an authority on nothing. Nor do I feel like a big shot with a secret identity. I am not here to challenge what information you gathered but I disagree on the way it was presented. If that makes me an arrogant, evil bastard then so be it.

You may be interested to know that the last weapon I fired was a Chinese SKS assault rifle - about 15 years ago and it was not in anger. I also do not currently own a firearm. The camo & rambo comment was also a joke - I'm sorry if that was lost on some people.


Grazhopprr,

Should we not use trail cams any longer because there are no loud people in front of them to attract a BF? How many times have we seen stories of hunters sitting quietly in there blinds or tree stands and suddenly seeing BF activity? You could also make the arguement that BF is attracted to blinds and stands, with the stories of hunters returning to find mangled equipment, etc.? If I was hunting BF it wouldn't be with a bunch of trigger happy yahoos. It would be with experienced people and there would be set safety and fire zones. And they would have headsets for comms . . .

Mosas & Megatarsal, thanks for the questions, I'll try and answer the "breast-stroke" question from you guys together.

I never saw the hands come into contact with the ground while the subject repeated this strange particular movement, or pull leaf litter up etc.... I also didn't smell anything unusual during the whole encounter either. the "breast-stroke" motion is the least positioning I feel comfortable commenting or providing my opinion on because there's so many possibilities and it just looked so odd. It really could be as simple as a sign of stress that there's a person here who knows I'm here or sees me, but how? and they aren't going anywhere? There's no light source? etc...

Your guys guess on that is as good as mine. I'll never forget coming home a week later (went through OR with Cliff and then Shasta with my wife's fam after WA) calling my good friend, researcher John Freitas, and him telling me (about the breast-stroke motion) "well what the hell was that?" And I'm just like "John, I have no freaking idea, but it's the closest thing I can describe the movement as."



The convulsive movements were extremely odd because the subject appeared so unnerved by me trying to get Cliff's attention. I would always expect that these things would possess acute animal senses (smell, hearing) but to react focused on me was so awsome, virtually ignoring what was an immediate lesser danger threat (the congregated party). The convulsive movement was so fast that I'd liken it to when you have a small dog and you accidently stamp your foot on the ground to close and they react quickly and shake a bit (I'm a dog lover so I hate this analogy). Also, those convulsive movements all took place with the subject favoring that right shoulder completely grounded and to be honest I could not discern all of its head positioning at every point (the footage would've been something to go over though ) What I remember distinctly is the movements and the pause freezes. I should also mention that there was some minor vegetative blockage during that time as well.



No other thermal targets the rest of the night. Cliff set the 250D Raytheon down the pathway I witnessed the subject on earlier and that battery might've made it until as late as 2:30, 3AM (usually 2-3 hour battery life). I also heard two subjects that may've been sasquatches directly behind my tent 2 1/2- 3 1/2 hours after the sighting during literally a torrential downpour. (Bobo and Jamie heard them as well in their tent and it was the first thing out of their mouths in the morning) However, I didn't actually see those subjects so I can't be a 100% certain.... I'd bet some serious cash though considering the guttural "doe-sounding" grunts that accompanied the clearest bipedal steps I've ever heard crashing cautiously behind camp. The second best steps I ever heard were in NorCal earlier that year (2007).

Great stuff, Bart. Thank you for your report and discussion of your sighting. It's truly fascinating.

Every bit as compelling as the first time I read it. Full of information, supporting witnesses, photo-recreations that mirror the information in the report and an author who's willing to answer questions?
Bart, you've set the bar very high for those who claim to have had encounters.
All I can say is excellent!

Thanks for the kind words Hopeful & Masterbarber, just wish I had more for all of us then just my account. If nothing else from a personal standpoint, I'm grateful everyday for having the opportunity to "know," & it's definitely burned a deeper fire for the subject (if that was possible) moving forward because as I've said, now it's just when, who & geographically speaking, where? "If," has been answered to me thankfully because before stepping out in the field in 04 & again during a period of most of 2006, "if," was admittedly really starting to creep into my mind.

"If" has been creeping up on me lately...then I just reread your account. Seems to help. Bart, it is you and some others that keep me interested in this.

Must be nice knowing for sure.

I guess enrollment in the expeditions was waning. This should perk things up.

Having a "mixed company" expedition, is the way to go. Everyone brings something the other doesn't have, and there's no judgement of one group over another. Exclusivity tends to make others resent "the other". I can't say I'd never pay, to get in a limited attendance workout, but if everyone pulls their own weight, financing their own time there, or even volunteering more than expected, charging a fee to attend isn't necessary, imo. Egos and percieved hierarchy would be the only snag.

I guess someone is really hurting for attention by coming into a thread & offering nothing but an unfounded, cheap-shot insinuation.

Are you serious? No, really...you've GOT to be kidding. You think bart's story being discussed on the BFF is increasing expedition counts? If that's what your saying....well.....WOW.....just wow.

Why don't you go take a look at the BFRO website yourself and see how many expeditions are SOLD OUT? And they were long before the "official" report.

Sheez slewfoot.

Oh, and FYI, I have NOTHING to do with the BFRO.

And you're going to qualify that statement with specific personal knowledge and details about the author of this report and the BFRO, right? Or did you think it would just be funny to make a random accusation about a member who has been nothing but forthcoming about his experiences with that organization?









edited for content.

I guess Slew was makin a pun about the inconsistency of humans, and maybe some karma. Right time, right place, damn camera was off, kinda thing. Happens alot out there. One of the reasons Bf isn't documented more completely. It just shows up when people aren't ready for it. Can't be in constant vigilence 24/7. Even on hunts, it seems to pop up when you're scratchin your butt. Bart just "happened" to be scoping the woods with that thermal. Sometimes it does look like the Keystone Cops, tryin to catch that thing out there. You could spend a week out there, with full military precision, 10 guys, coordinated, in touch, communication, all recorders going full time, and get nothing. Then on the way out, you pull over to piss in the bushes, and while standing there with your stuff in your hands, one peeks over the grass at you.

I'm sure slewfoot can shed some light on his own comment without your "guess", was it?
I realize that you're trying hard to become the proverbial mouthpiece for claims and comments, sans any accountability/details/proof/support/ etc...and will surely gain recognition as such, but try to humor those of us who are looking for the devil-in-the-details.
Hey look at the bright side, you've got three toes now and 165 posts since May 8th of this year. You've got to be excited about that!

B:

OK I had time to return to this and re-read everthing you wrote and realized I just could not picture the breast stroke activity. The I realized you were observing him kneeling facing at an angle off of dead on facing you and he was leaning forward so I could imagine it his arms swinging back in a "stay back! stay back! motion.

First, I have to say the image that comes to mind as you describe the agility and size of the BF is the famous Governator movie "Predator". I see the predator's head snapping around as he hears things. Ring any bells?

So for the breast stroke, as I imagine it, it could be a "stay-back" hand signal to others behind him. You pretty much already established he could see clearly in the near dark. I expect they have eyes like deer. So he was watchiing you, and from what you were doing he could tell you were watching him, but as you say, he knows humans and you were not supposed to be able to see him. That could have been frightening and confusing to him. Could it be that at the very moment he realized that you could see him his motions warned others by silent sign language (which he would use instead of vocalizations because of the other people at the fire could have weapons and I assume BFs understand weapons because they have observed their use. The convulsive movements at you snapping and hissing whispers (is that correct?) sound like nervous spasms, like a dog as you said but I imagine a small terrier (not in a lab's repertoire!).

The hand up motion could have been a way to better see you and try to assess the nightscope you were holding. Human peripheral vision at night is better than straight on. I forget why. Could there have there a bright star or a truck dome light behind you that he could have been trying to block? So maybe there is something about the biology of his eyes at work?

Thanks for staying here and your willingness to keep discussing this.

LL

Actually LL, it wasn't directly facing me while in this "breast-stroke" positioning, the subject's complete left side was facing me and its head was facing straight at a nine-o-clock position from me (see the two re-creations 6# & 7# I believe).



One of my all-time favorites. I see your point to an extent, but it's kinda hard to correlate the subject I witnessed with the Predator. The rapid dog-like movements however were amazing to see and have convinced me personally that these things are much more "ape-like animal" then anything that close to us, not to mention the disproportionate body shape.



There was no other light source I'm aware of other then the lit up congregated area where my companions wouldn't likely been visible (due to vegetative blockage on the backside of that perimeter) from the subject's viewpoint. Also, I should stress that although I'm not certain, I personally believe the subject couldn't see me visually but likely knew exactly where I was standing and that I was acknowledging its presence through its other senses. the reason I'm assuming that is because twice behind that tree, both initially and after getting up from the ground the second time, it was facing and obviously trying to look in my direction (alternating head right to left of tree) but didn't look like it could lock-in. Furthermore, as soon as it hit all-fours, its head was turned over the left shoulder and doing what looked like a "trying to lock-in rotation" of sorts. At no other time did I ever see its head obviously facing my direction.
As far as some of the positioning and hand movements, your guess is as good as mine, but I really believe the subject behaved the way it did due to stress and confusion. I know that's kind of boring, but to me it's the most logical explanation because I can't get into the subject's head, I can only give insight based on personal interpretation of what I visually witnessed. I also believe the last time I saw it (when it was motion-less with its back to me) that was kinda a last ditch maneuver by the subject to throw me off.




Your welcome, as although my sighting only proved existence to myself, I still want people to know what happened that night & I will look anyone in the eye and share it with them. And this is a walk in the park (LOL) compared to some of the unnecessary battles I've been through "here" the last 6 years.

Hi


Bart ~ You have a thirst for the truth and a drive to keep it alive

Peace
Tim

As you wish, Master, I am now put in my place. I will don the sackcloth and watch as you pass by, wishing for a drop of your wisdom in vain.

<exits backwards>