http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090519/sc_af...komodoaustralia

Sweet. Thanks for the link.

Nuff said

So that's why that fisherman died... very interesting.

And for the detail oriented ... here is some of the research

http://www.venomdoc.com/downloads/2005_BGF...amate_venom.pdf

I was always under the impression that it was different kinds of bacteria in the Dragon's mouth that eventually killed it's victim. Not any type of venom. . .Looks like I was WRONG. Certainly not the last time. . .Either way, I HATE those damn lizards!! There's not too many animals that I dislike, but the Komodo Dragon is at the top of the list.

The bacteria piece is still a factor, primarily because dragons are unaffected by bites from other Komodos, either from the venom or variety of dangerous bacteria that inhabit their mouth.

WOW! That brings to mind the question of how many other dinosaurs might have had venom glands?
Fossils show some dinos had a number of mystery gaps in their skulls. Who knows? Maybe T-rex, Velociraptors or Allosaurus took down the bigger prey in a similar manner?

From what I am familiar with, varanids, whether it's the ancient megalania prisca or varanus komodensis, don't fall in the same family tree as dinosaurs. Varanids actually have more in common with snakes. Many varanids are long and lithe, as opposed to the massive body of a komodo. I'm just going off what I know ... so I'm certainly not saying that dinosaurs did or didn't use venom.

I know there is a pretty lively debate as to whether T.rex was a hunter or scavenger. I would assume that much like the komodo, T.rex was probably an opportunist. The thought of a venomous T.rex that just needs to lay a decent bite into a prey item and ooze some venom in the wound and then follow them around, makes them even more frightening.

To note; if you fall into the dinosaur/bird ancestry belief, there are no know venomous birds today.

Venomous birds ! that would certainly make dove hunting a bit more interesting......

dav

OH you have to admire them as predators I mean we are talking about an animal that is superbly adapted for killing prey with a 2 punch Venom, deadly bacterial cocktail byte!

Yet not all those human victims bitten by this animal even with such a dangerous byte die.

And their blood is being used to produce life saving medicines precisely because of their immunity to their own deadly mouth bacterial cocktail...

Interesting! I had also been under the belief that it was primarily bacteria related which caused a nasty sepsis. Venom is such an amazing adaptation to take down prey, and it's amazing how many creatures employ the use of venom in hunting or defence.

A little off topic, but while where talking about venom, I found out the other day that one of the most painful animals to be envenomated from is the Platypus thanks to large spurs on the hind legs that pack a real wallop. The pain is described as instant and somewhat devistating, with traditional and intravenous analgesics providing inadequate pain relief. The only way to stop the pain is by regional nerve blockades.

Every now and then, some poor fool stubles across one, thinks it looks cute and tries to pick it up and ends up in hospital for the next few weeks!

A Platypus cute? Funny! Ever since I read about them I found them ass weird, odd and so on but cute?
Well...

I'll let you be the judge of that!

Ahh.....I think you've got a photo of a dead one there mate which is why it's looking a bit unwell. The fact that it's totally stiff was a bit of a hint! I think you need to get out in the wild a bit more!

I think it was a good idea letting me be the judge of things then!

Better stay out of south Florida then, seems like captive monitors released into the wild are thriving down there. Not poisonous, but close cousins to the Komodo and some can grow up to 8-10 feet as well. But they are not going to weigh a couple of hundred pounds though.

In one of the Aubrey-Maturin books (a 21 book series - the first was called Master and Commander) they are in Australia, and Dr. Maturin picks up a Platypus and gets stung. What follows is an amazing description of the pain he felt, and the comatose meanderings of Stephen Maturin's mind as he nearly dies, and gradually floats back to consciousness days later. This was set in the early part of the 19th century when they knew nothing about these animals, so he was understandably taken quite quite by surprise.



I live in central Florida, and try to stay out of south Florida as much as possible!

Hi

I don't see any problem with the large lizards running around down there, After all just because they have razor sharp teeth and are quite fast with a good sense of smell and decent hearing along with tree climbing ability cause there extremely Strong and agile along with a very determined drive once they lock onto your scent,

I just don't see how there going to be a problem

Peace
Tim

First I do not live in Australia nor anywhere near it and second is not that easy to spot a stiff creature in a damn still photo, plus I I made the search in a hurry, if that doesn't agree with you that's though...

The point is still is that it is a weird, goofy looking creature but most would not think off it as cute as say a bunny rabbit or a kitten.

Thanks for that Robert, very interesting. They are amazing animals and you wouldn't think they could pack such a devistating attack. For the few people that have been stung by the platypus, the pain is almost undescribable.

Another early patypus envenomation reference from 1817 cited in Martin and Tidswell),
[the platypus] stuck its spurs into the palm and back of his right hand with such force, and retained them in with such strength that they could not be withdrawn until it was killed. The hand instantly swelled to a prodigious bulk. The pain from the first was insupportable, [he] did not recover the perfect use of his hand for nine weeks

I have heard that there are a lot of Nile monitors down there. People get them when they are babies and cute. What they do not relize is that they tend to grow into 5-6 foot monsters with an evil disposition. Nile's have a very bad temper and they hate everyone. People just dump them into the wild because they get to big to safely keep. And yes, they can take off a finger without even thinking twice...

Hi

I have never had a nile monitor, I have had several other species of lizards and they just like any other animal are just out to survive, Heat up a mouse and you got instant bitey reptile, Most times in the wild i bet they would take flight and be gone in seconds if they see you, Even though they might get to 5' it's mostly tail in that measurement, They get big but you could handle it if you had too, My experience is they might take a nip at ya and hold on so you get pretty cut up, But as i have learned and sometimes have to practice, You can get them back because lizards respond to a loud NO or a quick smack to the nose ~ ( But be warned ! You have to be pretty quick with that Smack )

Peace
Tim

From Wiki...

"Nile monitors require experienced care as pets and are not recommended for beginners; nevertheless they are often found in the pet trade.

Nile monitors need a very large cage, as they can reach lengths of over five feet in adulthood. Because of their large size, adults are likely to require custom-built quarters. Soil, sand, or bark chippings can be used as substrate. The enclosure should contain things to make a suitable habitat such as rocks, driftwood, plastic plants or hollow logs. A water dish large enough for the lizard to soak in should be used. Nile monitors have a tendency to defecate in the water dish, so clean it whenever soiled or at least daily.

Nile monitors should have a daytime temperature gradient of about 80-90°F (27-32°C) and a night time temperature of about 78-80°F (26-27°C). A basking spot of 140 F should be provided at least 12 hours a day. A thermometer can be used to verify the temperature. The humidity should be moderate.

This species is very hardy in captivity when properly maintained. Wild caught animals should be checked for internal parasites. The Nile monitor has a very aggressive temperament with a powerful bite and a lashing tail and therefore is very dangerous. If raised with regular handling and a positive view of its keeper, a Nile monitor can to some extent be tamed.

"There are few lizards less suited to life in captivity than the Nile monitor. Buffrenil (1992) considered that, when fighting for its life, a Nile monitor was a more dangerous adversary than a crocodile of a similar size. Their care presents particular problems on account of the lizards' enormous size and lively dispositions. Very few of the people who buy brightly-coloured baby Nile monitors can be aware that, within a couple of years, their purchase will have turned into an enormous, ferocious carnivore, quite capable of breaking the family cat's neck with a single snap and swallowing it whole."

(Bennett, D. 1995. Little Book of Monitor Lizards, Viper Press, Aberdeen, UK) "



The only time I saw one in a pet store, it was small, maybe 2-3 feet. The owner was handling it with steel gloves...



I still want a Dumeril Monitor, but need more time and money to do it right...

Steel gloves.................break the neck of a cat and swallow it whole..............my idea of a good companion for a domestic household with children! (just kidding)

Hi

VA

I have had a few pretty good lizards over the yrs, Some i got from collage kids that were dumping them off at local pet stores, The little Timor monitors are pretty cool to start with, there is also the Red Acanthurus Monitors , You might want to check them out, They need much less room and make a really cool pet with time and care,

These guys have a good site

http://www.proexotics.com/index.html

Peace
Tim

Most monitors will not try to eat your kids, unless they get too close...


The steel gloves were made out of chain mail. I thought it was pretty cool at the time.


Edited: Thanks RRS for the link. I had not been there for some time (since I was/am not in the market right now). I noticed that they don't sell Niles and have a good section on their FAQ's about why. The Timor's are nice and I had never really looked into the Ackies before, but I like them (Thanks!!). Now if I can just get my wife to agree to spending up to $300 for a lizard (although it would be better to get at least a couple if not three)...

I really would like to have a Green Tree, but they are too rare to even comtemplate getting. Absolutely gorgeous animals.

To get this thread back on track, sort of... here is an article that was published back in 2005 discussing that monitors and iguanas are poisonous:


"Monitor lizards - commonly kept as pets - and iguanas produce venom, according to surprising new research that is rewriting the story of lizard and snake evolution."



http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8331...-revealed-.html