I have taken a new contract in the San Jose/Santa Clara area, beginning after Memorial Day, and seeing as how I will be in the NorCal area am wondering if anyone has and can share an actual location (Lat/Long) for where the PGF was filmed. I would love to go out and walk the area, same goes for Jerry Crew's work area.

Thanks in advance.

While I don't know the exact location of the PGF filming, my guess would be along Bigfoot Creek or its confluence with Bluff Creek. You can find these creeks and the access roads on the Six Rivers National Forest website maps. Check with the appropriate SRNF ranger district as there are travel restrictions in the area due to Port Orford Cedar root disease. Even hiking has its limitations due to this disease.

Jerry Crews company built the initial roads into the Bluff Creek drainage so it would be hard to determine an exact "work area". Spur roads would be built later as needed for logging.

Hope that helps and good luck, Norcal

41°26'18.19"N
123°42'21.37"W

You might want to check out some of the local sitings from this link but I don't recall ever having them mention the Jerry Crew sitings. I always thought they were all along the road that goes by Louse camp which is downstream a few miles from the PGF site.

Thanks!! I can work from that.

Can't wait to get out there - I am a midwestern farm boy (not exactly) but walking the creek bed has been a dream since I first saw Patty on In Search Of about 30 years ago. My family had just moved out of Missouri when the 'MoMo' flap happened, and my family and I found a 3 print trackway of large prints (14-15" long x 6-7" wide) while on vacation in Colorado back in '03 (http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=6538).

Can you give an approximate date that those coordinates were generated and how they were arrived at?
It was my understanding that no accurate map existed of the actual site and that locations were guessed at by trying to compare landmarks decades after the event.
Thank you.

I don't know where Mangani got the coordinates. It is nearly identical to what was determined in another thread where RB talked about having gone down there. There was another thread before that where the general location was determined. There were obviously a whole large group of people that made it to the exact spot in the weeks following the event. Johnh Green obviously found the exact spot when he had McClarin walk the same trail or whoever that was. The exact spot is less relevant now since it is probably completely changed. but it is not like the event occupies a point in space. It is a few hundred meters at least.

I understand what you are saying and agree.
But, I think one needs to be careful when putting out specific coordinates without explanation. Since so much has obviously changed over the 40+ years - people new to the research of this phenomenon may not realize that one is giving what may amount to a ball-park guesstimate.

I saw a fairly recent photo of the same location (as far as the photographer knew) and it looked completely different.

I am going to go next year as well (combining it with a trip to SF) and I'll use these co-ords. You'd think there would be some kind of small plaque or marker there. Seeing as the place is so iconic.

You could always ask Daniel Perez through Bigfoot Times web site.

Pat...

I just plugged those coordinates into the free online topo maps on "The USGS Store" website and it puts you up on a hillside to the south of Bluff creek. Too much elevation gain for the creek to have been there in recent history sooo...

It is a ways upstream from Louse Camp and close to Bluff Creek but still up on a hillside.

Bigfoot Encounters gives a slightly different set of coordinates at N41*26.301 by W123*42.357, which are closer to Louse Camp and right next to the creek on what appears to be a gravel bar (at the time of mapping) so that one seems to be more accurate.

I think you can print maps of The USGS Store site so with a zoomed in version and a regular topo you should be able to find the general area. This area is usually closed until early summer for the root disease.

Have fun, Norcal

Maybe USGS uses a slightly different format. Mine worked when I plug them into the google search. Google earth doesn't like your number format by the way. I am not sure about the exact format problem but they seem to be different.

Here's the coordinates from Bigfoot Encounters on Google Earth: N41 26.301', W123 42.357'

Click to view attachment

And here's the ones that Bob found: N41 26.1819', W123 42.2137'

Click to view attachment

They're actually a lot closer together than I thought when I used the topo maps. Lots of roads and lots of plantations around there. Looks like it would be relatively easy to get to the site.

If anybody else finds some different coordinates, please post them, Infoman needs the excercise.

Have fun, Norcal

Click to view attachment

I'll go with the Bigfootencounters co-ords.

Does anybody know whether this plaque ever got placed?

Here are all the various reported options I've found so far, collected from other people's sites and pages:

GPS co-ordinate readings for the Patterson-Gimlin Film site:

N. 41*26.301 W. 123*42.357 Elevation: 2560' -72'

N. 41' 26' 26. 45" W. 123' 42' 06.10" W. (Believed to be the correct one)

N. 41' 24' 19.50" W. 123' 42' 57.57" W.

N 41* 26. 38' W 123* 42. 001*

Note that they are in decimal.

WorldWind N41.439802, W-123.702342
Google Earth N41.439590, W-123.702116


The Bold is my best guess looking at Google Earth at that position. Never got there to find out, regretably.

If the image attachment works, it is the PG3 pin on the image (centered), for the bold coordinates above.

Bill


Click to view attachment

Here's another Bluff Creek thread from late 2006.

Thanks to all, I have more than enough to work from. Will probably make a weekend trip in June, maybe stay around Willow Creek.

Thanks again!

What datum?

Edited to add: Coordinate values resulting from interpreting latitude, longitude, and height values based on one datum as though they were based in another datum can cause position errors in three dimensions of up to one kilometer.

Ace! I'm a little confused. Are you saying that if you use latitude and longitude (flat plane) and then add in height (Google Earth satellites) that the result, as in Google Earth, can be off? That makes sense to me since one satellite photo covers a pretty big area and the only point that would be completely accurate is where the line from the center of the planet to the satellite intersects the surface. This is assuming that the camera angle is directly towards the center of the Earth.

The more I think about this, the more confused I get. Please explain in an "even a logger could understand" format.

Thanks, Norcal

The flat plane and height don't really have anything to do with whether the datum is important. It just adds another variable.

A "datum" is a type. So, let's say you put something on a map and used a ruler. You could say the location is one inch from the top margin and two inches from the right margin. Someone else might print the map on a different sized piece of paper and say the location is 1.5" from the top and 2.25" from the left margin. That's not what datum means specific to lat/lon, but what it is is more the way you measured the earth would put lat/lon in different places...man I don't know how to explain things to a logger It's two ways of giving the coordinates and they don't necessarily lay at the "exact" same spot. It's not metric, but I'll use that as an example...say you're going 55, well, is it mph or kph (kilometers).

Here's wiki:

"Latitude and longitude values can be based on several different geodetic systems or datums, the most common being WGS 84 used by all GPS equipment.[5] Other datums however are significant because they were chosen by a national cartographical organisation as the best method for representing their region, and these are the datums used on printed maps. Using the latitude and longitude found on a map may not give the same reference as on a GPS receiver. Coordinates from the mapping system can sometimes be changed into another datum using a simple translation. For example, to convert from ETRF89 (GPS) to the Irish Grid add 49 metres to the east, and subtract 23.4 metres from the north.[6] More generally one datum is changed into any other datum using a process called Helmert transformations. This involves converting the spherical coordinates into Cartesian coordinates and applying a seven parameter transformation (translation, three-dimensional rotation), and converting back.[1]

In popular GIS software, data projected in latitude/longitude is often represented as a 'Geographic Coordinate System'. For example, data in latitude/longitude if the datum is the North American Datum of 1983 is denoted by 'GCS North American 1983'"

Most USGS maps are not in WGS84, but your GPS is. If you get a lat/lon on your GPS then try to find it on a USGS topo map it'll be off by a little, same general area, but not the same specific area. Most USGS topo maps are a NAD datum (North American Datum, 27 or 83, indicating the year).

If you have a GPS, look at the datum. You should be able to change it. If you change it from WGS84 to something else your waypoints will have a different location. Write down the lat/lon of a waypoint and then change the datum used by the GPS. They should change. It's important to know your datum, really important actually. If you have a ground crew looking for you using USGS topo maps and you're using your GPS to give your location they'll likely be looking for you in the wrong place. Everyone has to use the same datum to be able to find the same place, even with the same lat/lon coordinates.

'nother example. Say you and I each go to a place on the earth and take a picture of the tree line, but I'm standing 1/4 mile farther to the west than you. If I say, hey look what's in the middle of my picture it won't be what's in the middle of your picture. It'll probably be in your picture, but it won't be the center of the picture. Datums are different views of the earth when making a map or referencing a place on the earth, it shifts the locations depending on which view (datum) you're using.

So in other words, I've been lost my entire life.

Norcal Logger,
It looks like a very minor difference but it is odd that your google earth put it in a slightly different position than mine. We actually should be at the same spot. Just thought it was strange. FYI
Click to view attachment

That is odd. In fact all of this is odd. Ace!s post left me dumbfounded. It was a long time ago but I had to take surveying in college and I always thought that every point on earth was perfectly definable. It does kind of explain why so many property lines out in the woods are determined to be off.

Looks like I've got something new to obsess about.

Every point on earth is perfectly definable, but it depends on who makes up the definition, and when. NAD is North American Datum. When "we" defined where a place was on the earth it was based on whatever it was based on. NAD 27 was in 1927. Then it was updated in 1983 and some places may have been off just a little. Now we can pinpoint a place with satellites and it's off just slightly still. So, a given point in Lat/Lon isn't necessarily where it was 26 years ago, or 83 years ago. Then, if it's not the North American Datum, say it's the World Geodetic System 84 (1984) it's slightly different still. It gets updated from time to time (i.e., WGS has been done more than several times, including but not limited to 1960, 1966, 1972, 1984, 2002 and it'll be updated again in 2010). There were other systems, both US and other countries developed and they were based on different models of the earth. GPS uses WGS 84; however, many maps were printed before that and many were printed using a different system (i.e., NAD). It's not that it makes a huge difference, but it does make some difference.

It's kind of like chains. They used to be used to measure distance. Over time the chains stretched so after a while the distances would be off based on the chain you used. They'd be close, but not perfect. If you have your GPS set to WGS 84 and give your lat/lon based on that and someone looks at your location on a map based on NAD 27/83 and tries to pinpoint your location they'll get close, but maybe not within yelling distance (so carry a whistle )

This has been very educational. I hope a lot of people have been following this thread.

I still can't figure out why Bob and I got slightly different results using the same coordinates on Google Earth.

Ya' know, unless a person is wanting to do some research on the PG film using background objects that are still there, like trees or rock outcroppings, does it really matter if one finds the exact spot?

The only way to find the exact spot is to find the bones of the dead squatches from the massacre.