Does anyone know exactly what you get for the $300 registration fee to go on an "expedition with these guys. According to the site yuour responsable for everything fod included, so what do they "provide"? I know of areas in MA, VT, NH and Maine where you can research for free so why pay them? Any thoughts?

I was wondering that too...

I've never been on one, but from what I've heard is that you get training on techniques for locating an ideal BF sighting spot. You may get to play around with some of latest toys; such as night vision and heat cameras. You also get to work with some experienced people.

Price the above on your own scale to determine if it’s worth it to you.

Whether or not you get more than that is up for a LOT of debate here since the BFRO and BFF philosophies tend to clash.












You may get free pancakes.

I think you should go ask that question at the BFRO forum.

Hi

I say save the 300.00 bucks on the Expedition and come down the Cape this year. Gas is still pretty cheap and the Motels will have some great deals for fun in the Sun

( Red Rat Snake is not affiliated with the Cape Cod Tourism society )

Peace
Tim

Tim - That avatar you have up currently might be my favorite. Reminds me of a painting I did in College.

If I want some night vision, I'll just go ask my old boss. I think he's still got those crappy Generation 1 nightvision units around. They use to do night vision raft tours with them! Mostly just float trips looking for wildlife. Never heard any sasquatch sightings from those trips.

( But he is affiliated with the Cape Cod Tourism and Home Reptile Keeping as a Hobby society.)

On the other hand, you can come out west for a real Beer Family Recreation Outdoors expedition. Trips include a low cost wallet filled with pictures of Norcals grandkids. You get to take on the exciting task of gathering 3 days worth of firewood. To simulate a hard core expedition, we forget to bring one tent, sleeping pad, sleeping bag and rations so you get the realistic experience of lack of sleep, hypothermia and hunger. Oh yea, and we only brought NA beer for you so as not to dull your senses (of pain).

But on a more positive note, you will be the one chosen to hike out into the forest in the middle of the night to: 1) Tree knock, 2) Call blast 3) Imitate wounded small animals 4) moniter (at close range) baiting stations. And if this isn't enough you will do all of this with technology that was available no later than 1967 thus adding verification to that most famous of BigFoot films- The Patterson/ Gimlin Footage. (IN AN EFFORT TO PRESERVE YOUR SAFETY, YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED ANY WEAPONS OR DANGEROUS MEANS OF SELF DEFENSE NOR PERSONAL TRANSPORTATION .) Also, to allow you the experience of being the "odd man out", you will not be allowed to communicate, in any form, with Norcal, Mrs. Norcal, Mr. and Mrs.' Norcals children (especially the "hot" daughter-in-law), Mr. and Mrs. Norcals grandchildren and anyone else that may happen across this expedition.

Hurry, spaces are filling fast!

Hi

Grizz ~ That is from the band * TOOL *

Norcal ~ A most excellent post, I am in Stitches

Peace
Tim

A lighter wallet

To be fair, it does provide the average joe (or jane) who knows little about BF or camping an opportunity to experience something different. I have no problem with the BFRO making some money in return for the experience.

My only beef is with the unsupported claims from the expeditions, but hey, it's marketing. Let them be I say, it actually introduces folks to the subject and get many of them exited about it.

The price is worth it to many people as evidenced by their success. Yes, they are successful at selling the expeditions, so why not?

Reminds me of Berkeley in the sixties. I think I did a little too much LDS....

You get to kneel before Matt Moneymaker and kiss his ring

Huh, it reminded me of doing a couple of LDS chicks too.

I'll think I'll pass on that!

However, they may be worthwhile in getting people who are starting out on research (like me) an intro to new techniques and to meet like-minded people locally - I don't think I'd fly a thousand odd miles to attend one. If you've got the cash and time to spare then I don't see the harm in attending just once.

SWEET!, Oh the day................

The BFRO recently had their first expedition to Tennessee, and drew the usual crowd of people laying down their $300 for the privilege of attending.

The expedition was exclusively in a public forrest area, and was to sites specifically shown (in confidence, of course) to several BFRO members by Mary Green.

We thought it is kind of funny, actually, the way Matt Moneymaker always badmouths Mary Green, but then charges people to go onto the exact sites that she has been researching for years.

So, basically, for $300 you get the privilege of being shown an area mapped out by someone that the BFRO has always claimed did not know anything about bigfoot.

And you get the privilege of meeting Matt Moneymaker.

Oh - wait -
They claim he did not come along on the Tennessee expedition.
Apparently the irony of the location was too much for him.

That is hilarious!

The BFRO has proven time and again that it and its members know nothing more about this phenomenon than anybody else.
This is proven by their inablity to obtain ANY worthwhile evidence.
How do I know they have no worthwhile evidence? Because if they had any - they would stop trumpeting the nonsense and outright laughable crap they are trying to pass off as evidence and show some real evidence.
Don't let them try to fool you with the further nonsense about having super secret evidence and locations that they keep for their own use. Only a fool would believe such obvious malarky. That is the oldest con in the book.

Irony. You'll know it when you see it.

In actuality, I think there is enough "evidence" that is overlooked by BFRO to support finding out more about the animals, they just aren't interested in the exploration, don't have the time or the paid staff (other than numero uno), that could help. They probably do not have "more" than others, but I think they have in some cases "as much as" and in other cases "less than" others. Overlooked evidence comes about from commercialization of their "research". Otherwise, why would they be going out Biscardi-like trying to "hook=up" with all the other big events like the Jacobs bruin, Pinhead pancake man and many others? Of course, all JMHO.

I am a bit surprised.
I expected some BFRO members to post here trying to claim they found this area on their own.
It HAS to drive them nuts that the word is out on them following Mary Greens research to the exact locations she told them about when they were in her group some time ago.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out he was somewhere nearby...

Perhaps you were joking, and criticize MM's priorities and decisions as you like, but there is no basis for suggesting that he perpetrates hoaxes in any setting.

I talked with a guy from NY state who really got info BF when his friend clained he saw one. he joined some org...not sure which and had a real bad experience. Now he's real jaded and doesnt believe anymore...

I think there's a lot of people like that....

I hope its some local yokal that comes up with the discovery...not a group...

Like two guys in Georgia with a freezer?

My guess is that behind the scenes, there is great deal of stunned disbelief on the part of the BFRO membership.
If not..there should be.

Hmmm.

I have knowledge of at least ONE hoax he perpetrated involving me and my research area -
He claimed he was sending a group here contrary to my wishes - which was a blatent lie.
The evidence is in the form of a series of e-mails from him now in the hands of the local sheriff, just in case he every shows up around here -

This is a very confusing sentence.

How did he hoax you?

He claimed the BFRO was coming here to my property.
He sent me a copy of the e-mail he had sent to "all" researchers in my state, giving them my address and telling them that the 'real' property owner had given permission, and to ignore the person living on the property, as they were not the owner. He stated in the memo that he had permission from the property owner to be here, and asked them to come and check the place out as a possible expedition site.

It was all a hoax. I have SOME contacts within the BFRO, who verified that no such memo had been sent to any members in my state.

Just to be safe, I passed all the e-mails (including several that did nothing but curse me) to the local sheriff, who happens to be a personal friend of mine.

The entire fiasco started when I wrote the BFRO and formally rescended my permission for them to investigate my property, something they had been doing for over a year when I removed permission VERBALLY. Some LEO friends advised me to send written notice to that effect, I did, and that is when he started the hoax that he was sending people here to investigate.

In a way, with the sheriff here ready and willing to help prosecute him, I wish he HAD shown up - - -

Did he hoax a Bigfoot encounter?
I have no idea.
But he certainly did create a hoax in this situation, so I have no reason to believe he would not lie and hoax in another situation -

So, are you part of the Kentucky thing then?

Who is this question directed at?

Sounds like the enraged Jedi masseuse himself alright.

Since my question came immediately after your post, I assumed it would be obvious that is was directed at you.

Two words. First word- bark.

You are making accusations that are very serious.
Perhaps you could post a few of the emails to prove your accusations.

With the new thread layout, folks are responding to earlier posts, later posts, etc., and it is not possible to tell who is responding to who - I assumed, since you quoted no-one, that you were replying to the initial post in this thread.

No, I am not part of any 'Kentucky thing', whatever that might be. I am an individual property owner who had the GREAT misfortune to contact the BFRO many years ago, and they investigated my place for over a year before I discovered they were a black hole; all evidence goes INTO them. All information goes INTO them. And from them we learned - precisely nothing. When I discovered they had, in addition to this, lied to gain access to my property, I banned them verbally. The narrative above takes off from there.

If I copy the text and paste it into a post, it proves nothing because I could have just made it up.
If I post the e-mail as an attachment, I cannot protect my identity and e-mail address on a public forum.

Just let me know how to do this in a manner that would both protect my identity AND actually prove my claim, and I will gladly do so.

Copying and pasting it is good enough for me for now.
Moneymaker has posting priveleges on this board so he can defend himself. If he claims to have been wronged by a false or made up email - then there are a couple of methods that you can use to provide the information.
You could forward the email to the administrator of this board. After all - unless you are using a proxy - he already has that info.

OK.

I sent an e-mail to their web-site contact address, removing permission for them to come here for their planned expedition. I got an immediate response, denigrating me rather badly. I responded, thanking him for the evidence that he had received my formal removal of permission to investigate here. His reply:

You didn't send it to anyone else but me. Other folks will go anywhere they please, anytime they want. You'll never know because you will be asleep, and you already gave them permission.

here is the text of the e-mail he lied about sending to their investigators, with indentifying information blotted out.
I assume admin's will prevent him from giving any personal information out which I have deleted in this:

Investigators in (my state deleted):

I'm BCCing this message to several of you at once.

There may have been some activity around this address in the past:

(my personal street address deleted)

I'm recommending you look around in the area. We have permission from the property owner to look around there, though someone who pretends to be the property owner is now trying to discourage us from going there.

It may be a good location for the upcoming expedition, so please check it out for me as soon as possible, and let me know what you find.

MM

A complete fabrication. I checked with my sources withing the BFRO, and no such memo was ever sent. It was apparently supposed to worry me. Obviously, MM does not know me at all, in spite of sending several investigators here over a period of over a year several years ago.

And here is a typical one he sent to me after I blocked his e-mail address from my in-box, sending all his correspondence into a special junk folder:

Look for little gift on your property, and then let's see you do something about it.

When I told him I was keeping his e-mails as evidence in case he DID show up, he responded:

You only have evidence of being dumbshit hick moron. You will do nothing with that, little man.

And that is a good representation of the character of the leader of the only scientific bigfoot research group in the world

Here is part of the Sheriffs response when he read all the e-mails:

If you have any problems with them at all just let me know and I will be glad to assist you in prosecuting them. That Moneymaker fellow sure is an arrogant somebody

That's easily answered.

You will get EXACTLY what you deserve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TCF

That alleged email did not sound as though it was written by MM.

anyone else?

I have not had the pleasure of reading a lot of MM's correspondence so I will leave it up to those who are more knowledgeable in that regard to do the comparisons.

However, this appears to be the type of nonsense MM is well known for.

I do hope that Moneymaker has the courage to address these accusations in this thread. I somehow doubt it though.

I would be interested in knowing if you have ever crossed MM in any way?
Every person I have talked to that has CROSSED him has had a very similar experience.
To those he hopes to get something out of, he is very congenial.
His own people admit that he can be 'very abbrasive'.

But this kind of skepticism is exactly what I expected when I was asked to paste some of the e-mail text here; I am not surprised by the doubt, as most BFRO members are absolutely committed to protecting their access to their VERY large database, and protecting MM from criticism is part of that. Some here are members of the BFRO, right?

I hesitate to answer for someone else - but in Redwolf's defence - she is very knowledgable about MM and his ways. I personally consider her integrity to be of the highest calibre. (and that's not just because I'm scared of her! )

Also, her ability to separate fact from fiction is very high and has been demonstrated on this board many times.

She is giving her first impression and asking for input from others who know MM very well and have "crossed him" far more than you in the past.

Give her time to assess what you posted.
When Redwolf is ready to give her opinion based on the facts at hand - you will know exactly where she stands.


edited to add: Please allow the process to work its way to a conclusion. Do not be upset at people's questions and understand that - for the most part - all of us are interested in the truth.
Answer the questions politely and to the best of your ability.

IF the conclusions are what you consider to be incorrect - I can offer you a way of proving your statements and protecting your identity.

Noodle, as Rock already mention...Red is about as far from a BFRO apologist as it gets!
She's been in the thick of it for a long time and is very familiar with him. She's just giving her honest opinion, which I'd expect nothing less of her. You will likely get opinions on both sides of the matter from people who have in the past been targets of Matt, so as Rock also says below, don't take it personaly.


Red, I have to disagree to a point. I have no idea of course if this is real or not, but, the M.O. of those alleged emails to me at least do closely resemble MM's "style" once he decides to take a bead on a person.

Hi folks-
Redwolf, I feel odd disagreeing with you!

But based on some of the writings I've seen from MM, this is typical treatment for someone who has found their way onto his bad side. If anyone remembers the text that was found hidden in the source code of one of his web pages, this should be no surprise.
I've also read a couple of his legal threats to others, and they are full of this kind of "colorful" verbiage.

The details of Noodle's exchange with him seem to fit MM's M.O., at least in my opinion and based on the things I've read. It sounds as if he was upset at being turned away, and it shows.

Keep in mind, I've never met the man in person, so there are plenty of others who are better qualified to make a judgement about his character. But based on what I've learned, I personally do not want to be put into a position where I might need to trust him. Ain't gonna happen.

I have read 2 or 3 accounts of him having conflicts with property owners, and they got ugly similar to what Noodle has claimed.

My appologies for getting out of sorts.

I will hold my tongue and be patient while everyone decides whether or not to believe me, and then I will gladly do whatever it takes to prove I am speaking the exact truth.

My ONLY conditions on sending these e-mails for examination is:

1. They go to at least two people.

2. It must be agreed that the people I send them to are capable of determining of they are original and un-edited or not.

3. I have those two persons word of honor that they will tell the truth on this forum about their finding regarding their authenticity.

4. My identity or location will not be revealed beyond the two people I send these to.

5. No action will be taken against me by any management of this forum as a result of my revealing my true identity.

IOW, I want this to be absolutely positively the END WORD on this, without any credible challenge in the future regarding the exact correctness of my report on this exchange.

I will not limit the e-mails to the ones quoted here, but will send them all, from my first notice to their web-site address to the last one received by MM when he finally decided I was serious about blocking his address, and would not respond to him again.

I will also need instructions on how to send them; I use Outlook Express as my client, so assume I just save them somewhere and then attach them to an e-mail, but let me know if something else is required to be POSITIVE about this matter.

Again, sorry for getting a bit ill; I react poorly when my integrity is questioned, and I have to get over that when dealing with anything as controversial as these creatures and the people that study them.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding:


http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...c=10520&hl=

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...ic=8336&hl=

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...ic=4665&hl=

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...ic=2472&hl=

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet MM is Frontman which has already been verified many times over by the moderating staff here and elsewhere. As far as MM not using that type of language or threat of legal action. Read more , talk less, and the search function is your friend. It is EXACTLY what most of us have come to expect from an MM tirade either in public or in private.

I'd also recommend searching the threads that have to do with mass exodus and the hidden code in the BFRO home page and the statements he made regarding Teresa and I there. It's actually quite telling if you know what to look for.

I think it sounds EXACTLY like him. Rather restrained for him, actually.

Noodle, do you know how to do a screen capture, save it to Paint, then save it as a photo? You can show the actual email, as it looks on your computer screen, with all the details (like the date, who it came from, etc) right here that way.

First of all. Yes, I have crossed MM. I know him well.

Second, I was merely pointing out my opinion and not putting anyone's integrity into questions. The email seems very restrained for him and somewhat polite which is unusual especially when MM is mad. In fact, the madder he is, the less restrained he is. Maybe he's on some better meds lately?


I am not saying it wasn't him...just that something seems off about all this.

edited because I really don't feel like starting another fight here...