from what I've seen all of us here try hard to respect the opinions of others.unfortunatly surfing around lately and reading some of the reports posted on some of the sites,I started thinking that maybe that is part of the problem with BF research.who will actually take the real thing seriously when so many people have the same mentality of a supermarket tabloid.the problem I have with this is that when these kinds of reports or stories become more than amusement.to many of them are used by the media,scienctists and the general populace as the gospel of what Bf research really is along with some of the more prominant cryptos reported throughout the world EXAMPLE:"nessie beaches on lochness 100's watch as great creature slowly dies"headline from the WWN.the problem posed by this is that MILLIONS of people see this on a daily basis.they may not read the actual article but they see the cover so when someone like say green or especially an investigator in the eastern half of the US asks serious questions all we get is the look.(you all know the one I'm talking about)Maybe its time we as a group(not just us but all serious BF searchers)said enough.its become almost intolerable some of the stuff thats been printed about folks like us and BF in general because of a few "kooks"who see a Bf everyday it seems and get a picture video or worse yet aren't just simpleminded weirdos and maliciously decide to perpetrate a hoax.for no other reason than to get their 15 min. of fame once they're caught.on another thread Arky said she usually just grins and bears it,I normally do the same thing as probably do many of us if not all of us.MAYBE ITS TIME we said enough and let these charltonss,hoaxers and plain vanilla nutcases know about the harm they do to those of us serious and passionate about our research.post on their sites, straight up tell them or whatever it takes(within reason) to get them to stop the nonsense,to question everything they say and do,(particularly if they are a known hoaxer)I want answers and accountability,from everything or at least an actual solid reason why I should not doubt some of the stuff out there by some of these people i.e.channeling to a 300 year old dead bf is NOT high on my believability scale.so,and yes there is a question here,how do you make this stop and is there a way to do so without causing a major uproar onthe net or other forms of media,and without showing a huge amount of disrespect(which I try hard not to do no matter what)to get this nonesense to stop?as always comments suggestions?as for me like fishy said I'll be off to set a record for how many sites I can get the ban from for questioning thier reasonings and/or results(politely of course)but who knws maybe I'll be able to make them think at least a little about the effect they have on the rest of us?

Jim, I know where you are coming from and I feel the same way sometimes. But in dealing with that type of people, there really isn't much you can do. You can tell them what you think, but in the end they are just going to ban you, delete your messages, possibly even block your ISP and then they will just continue doing what they are doing.
I agree that it is dispicable what they do and it causes the rest of us who are serious about the subject a lot of woe. I have tried debating with some of them, but all they do is start calling you names and then block you from communicating with them.
It is annoying because it is almost like, "Here I am...see what a fool I am making of you...and you can't stop me!". Come to think of it, that is exactly what they are probably saying.
But how do you stop them?? I don't know. They actually like the attention they get when someone debates them. They wallow in it because they have upset a real researcher and got themselves some more attention.

Maybe someone needs to make a website centered entirely on hoaxes and things like that. Use it for questioning the things people claim...ask them to back it up with some real evidence that everyone can clearly see. I don't know if it would do much good, but it might help some people understand there is difference between US (the real researchers) and THEM (the attention seekers). Just keep in mind that slandering is against the law. Freedom of speech and opinons aren't. You can say anything about anyone as long as you don't state it as fact but as your opinion instead. :wink:

Dont post your opinions on a website. If its in print, you can never say you were misquoted.
In the words of Abby Hoffman (or, i think he would have said it anyway) Freedom of Speech, includes volume !! Use a megaphone

Well, with the technology, the internet, the better sharing of information, resources, and more mental power in the major groups .. it wont be long before we (bf community in general) have some solid, irrefutable proof of the existence of the animal commonly called sasquatch. Then the world will have to sit up and eat thier creamed asparagus.

Take heart, dont go around starting sh*t, just be cool, let the hoaxers make themselves look like idiots. Give em enough rope, and they will hang themselves. In my dealings with attention getters, they may start off sounding credible, but the more they talk, the wilder the stories become, until they are sooooo "out there" that even Loren and Cliff would say "no way!". Blue belts and spaceships ring a bell??? LOL

But good rant !! Venting is good !!! We all have to let off a little steam, and thats what friends are for, . to listen and watch as we spout off, stamp feet, and feel better.

Here dude, have a beer

Jim, I've been thinking a lot about your post since I first read it this morning. Here are my thoughts.

Unfortunately, we're doomed to toil in the shadow of the freaks and mental cases that use bigfoot as an avenue for their deranged blathering. I know this is pretty strong language, much stronger than I've used before, but it's the truth. Right now, at 5:30, I have very little patience for the rest of the world and I’m not too inclined to beat around the bush. I totally agree that the rest of us, those who are inquiring skeptically and (to the best of our ability) scientifically, just aren’t as interesting as the lunatic fringe who want to put telepathic bigfoot at the helms of flying saucers. No body wants to listen to us. In fact, it's easier to pretend we don't exist.

Who’s to blame for this state of affairs? Well, for one, we are. I think the politics and distrust of the community of serious bigfoot investigators allows others to set the debate. It allows those who see a bigfoot under every tree to maintain a level of respectability they do not deserve. Some group or, preferably, some coalition of groups needs to take a leadership role and challenge not only an uneducated public willing to use us as the butt of jokes but also those who really should be the butt of jokes! There needs to be one voice for the ‘sensible center’ of those interested in bigfoot so we can stop being on the defensive and instead begin to push pubic perception in our direction.

All anybody has to do is read these forums. I am constantly thankful that we have among us thoughtful, intelligent, skeptical thinkers who know the difference between the speculative and the fantastic. We are the sensible center who have weighed the evidence without prejudice and now dare to think that a great primate probably does walk this, and other, continents. The problem with us is we actually care what others think of us. I expect that most of you, like me, tend not to share your opinions with others for fear of ridicule or worse. Good lord, if you’ll believe in bigfoot, you’ll believe in anything, right? It's time to take belief in the existence of bigfoot out of the shadows of ridicule and doubt. It is time to do something.

There’s strength in numbers. I believe there are many more of us than there are those on the lunatic fringe. Somehow, we need to come together to drown out that bunch. This means we can no longer afford the bickering and name calling and undermining that takes place between serious groups of investigators. If you’re willing to let the evidence lead you where it will, then you’re a friend. If you’re looking to boost your own fame or web hits or whatever at the expense of serious inquiry, then you’re the enemy.

Question is, how do we start?

I'm with that Bipto!

How to do it is the question.

Good rant there, Jim!

I agree that it's up to individuals such as those of us who post here to facilitate a change in the perceptions most people have regarding bigfoot.

This forum is one hell of a good start in that direction. Thankfully, Bipto's been open-minded and fair and has allowed us to post our criticisms of other websites on his forum. You can try putting someone to the test and making them be accountable for statements they make but as I've already found out, there's quite a bit of favoritism and bias involved with a lot of organizations. My case in point being the BS I went through with a moderator(s) from the GCBRO. (I'm still itching for one of them to come on here and put me to task, BTW. I've still got all the emails! :wink: )

That little encounter showed me just exactly how much credit I should give to their credibility as an organization. Which is fairly close to zip.

Also, I'm sick and tired of the same lame excuse I've seen used by several organizations regarding their posting the famous "blob" photos. That response being, "I just put those pictures up on my site so that the individual can draw their own conclusions." (Since Bipto has stated that this forum is "family hour" I won't post exactly what I'd like to as rebuttal to that statement. So, here's the family hour response.) I say, "Bullcrap! You're an attention seeking BF researcher wannabe that's not doing anything but undermining the efforts of true, dedicated researchers who are trying to apply the scientific method to the point that irrefutable proof can be gathered in order for mainstream scientists to accept the fact of bigfoot's existence and then move from researcher to conservator of an obviously endangered species. Your feeble attempts to define yourself as a serious "researcher" are laughable. No serious researcher would post photos of shadows and blobs and then attempt to convince the public at large that they're really seeing bigfoot. You're nothing more than a fly in the soup of every serious researcher who spends their time and money attempting to seek out true evidence. You're a pariah. You're a charlatan. And as an advocate of the true skeptical researcher, I'll happily point out your idiocy for all to see every chance I get."

I say give this forum about a year and there will be enough of an audience here to get this point across to anyone who happens to start searching for information about bigfoot on the Internet.

That's a start. And that's something.

(Sorry. I ended up doing a bit of a rant myself, didn't I?) :roll:

first let me say I apologize for going off half -cocked this morning I'm in a much better frame of mind now.(yeah sure now I'm fully-cocked )it was a conversation i had with someone at work that started this because he like many who only hear about the "out-there"groups lump BF,telepathy,UFO's and everything in to one category"to weird for me"in his words and I spent the next 30 min.preaching the difference.it really, as you all pointed out,(thanks )set me off.it makes it so hard to try and do what we've all been doing and I'm sure it hinders our research in many ways we may not even fathom at this time,but that may greatly affect our efforts down the road.and Thanks bipto this forum may eventually(I really and truly hope) be that one beacon of stability in what is the Quagmire of BF research.(and thats about all the eloquence and hard thought out wording I can muster today so now I have to go post on the "what BF might say"thread

No need to apologize Jim, we've all had our own little raves and we understand exactly where you are coming from on this! 8)

Yep. What Arkansan said.

And after reading over my post in the light of a new day, I'm still sticking to my guns.

If Houdini could spend his spare time debunking hoaxers, so can I...I think.

You go for it Fishy! If anyone can make themselves heard...you sure can!

Hmmm...maybe that's why I always hear people telling me to shut up.

the only real question now is the how?we all asked about this in the above posts.while I agree that this forum is a good start there's got to be more we as a group or as individuals can do.from the threads,ideas,theories,questions asked and answers provided in this forum its obvious that the intellect possesed by us as a group on the BF subject(among many others)ought to be able to come up with at least a few more ideas on how to start.arkys warning/advice to would be hoaxers on her site is a good example of one way. like I said it is a start.I just keep thinking theres got to be more I/We can do.

Wow, I missed this this weekend Darn.
Good stuff you guys. Hey, I know a good literature search is imperative.
That helps support thinking and promotes ideas and eliminates some of the stuff that was time consuming and didnt work.
That is one thing we can do.
Another is to tell me how in the world I can change my signature from time to time like you guys do !!

just go to the "profile at the top about halfway down after you've clicked it you'll be able to change it.(greeeaat, advice from the techno impaired :wink: )

Thanks jim

Now if I could just come with a good signature. Here is trial one..

Well, that sure didnt work will try again. guess I will just cut the sig off my posts for awhile. Thanks though.. I removed all my old signature from that box and put in something new... didnt register My luck.

I hear what ya'll are saying...frustrating, maddening, yes...and can't say that I disagree with anything said.... except, well,.... I kind of agree with Rob here. I'm not convinced taking on anyone to stop their lunacy and to implore the public to take us seriously without any real proof (other than footprints, sighting reports and recordings of one form or another) would carry much weight with anyone who doesn't already lean towards believing. I think the public is sophisticated enough to determine which reports on TV, newspapers, etc. are real enough to believe in. I think the public will come around quickly to reality when the definitive proof is laid at their feet, but probably not before then. If you call too much attention to yourself in such a potentially harsh environment, you may run the risk of being pulled down into a quagmire of rhetoric and unproductive dialogue with those who actually get their jollies giving other people grief. I think that would be a huge waste of energy...and to what potential end? Just to have them think the way we do? I personally don't care who believes what I do. When a body is finally produced, they troublemakers will all scurry back into their little holes where they belong...never to be seen again. That's when we can just step over them and continue on.

Concentrate on your work and ignore the flotsam out there there's ALOT of it. Down here in South FL we have our own hoaxer I deal with occasionally.

You will have yours up Myakka way. There are a couple I watch up that way. Eyes open and ear to the ground. Don't forget to look up in the trees for the youngsters, don't take what looks like stumps for granted...
it's far more enjoyable "out there" than trying to talk to some idiot in a chat room or list on paranormal bigfoot etc..!. Talk to you soon. ~L

You're exactly right. Our furry friends may be ABnormal, but they are not PARAnormal. They're like us--real creatures just trying to get by as best they know how.

It's as pointless to try to "convert" a nonbeliever to BF belief as is it is to argue for evolution with a creationist, or vice versa. All you can be for anyone is a model. It's a matter of attraction rather than promotion. You can't change anybody's mind unless that person is ready to change, wants to change, and asks for your help and feedback. Otherwise....forget it!

I know our furry friends are out there and if other people don't think so, that's there loss! :roll:

The one down your way wouln't happen to have the initials D.S. would he?(if your wondering why I'm here right now my night foray got cancelled.lightning in the distance and I don't want to get blinded again )

I bet you're right, Jim. :wink:

Doesn't DS stand for dipsh.....oh...nevermind.

That Too LMAO

I have a theory that the less the general public and media beleive in BF, the better it is for BF himself.

From a conservation point of view, I am undecided as to whether finding BF would be a good thing or a bad thing.

If we find him, we could preserve ihs habitiat, but lets be honest, as a species we haven't been very good at doing that over the years have we ?

If I *were* to find cast iron evidence of the existence of Bigfoot, I would be in two minds as to whether I would want to share it with the public.

Difficult isn't it ?

Hi Paul! Welcome! I understand how you feel. I too, may be of two different minds if I discover one of the creatures...let's just hope I'm in my right mind when I decide what to do about it.

I agree with your statement that we have a less than sterling track record when it comes to protecting endangered species (especially in this country) but this isn't an owl or a butterfly we're talking about. This is potentially another hominid - without doubt a primate. I think that distinction would fundamentally alter our reaction.

If you're of the opinion that these creatures require vast areas to thrive in, then we're obviously doing them harm with our unrestrained development of both suburban areas and commercial development such as mining, forestry, etc. If cast iron proof were at my fingertips, I would not hesitate to publish it. How one would go about doing that is a topic for another thread!

I agree with Bipto.

By not doing anything, we are guilty of allowing their habitat to dwindle away. Only by proving there is something to save are we ever going to stop the forests from disappearing at the rate they are now. If we do nothing, we are guilty of killing them out slowly.

Agree with both Arky and Bipto.If I find something you'll know right after I do.cause I'm gonna need all the advice I can get on what to do next.'course the hard part is the finding something

And I am with Arky, Bipto, and Jim I think it needs to be proven to save the species.......

well I've started to read some of the out there books.its tediuos sorting through all of the UFO/telepathy/dimensional BF relations but of nothing else it helps to understand the nature of the beast...isn't there an old chinese proverb if you want to defaet you enemy,you have to know your enemy.

I agree - Cryptozoology is a joke to most people. And I say we correct it, starting with E-mailing that Sasquatchhunters page and caning him!

I agree with Arky and Bipto too, Cargagnil (sp?). If BF were proved to be real and hominid primate or any kind of primate.....it could and would lead to protecting their environment, at least to a degree.

As for those--we known who--that insist our furball friends are a "paranormal, interdimensional being connected with UFOs"--my attitude is "HO, HUM, zzzzzz.....". If you were a Bigfoot, would you hang out with UFO aliens who allegedly dump them in rather unpleasant places, like blackwater swamps or even in the ocean? I don't think so.

But you're not gonna change the opinion of such people by arguing, debating or reprimanding. You're just encouraging them with your attention. I don't bother to argue or challenge. I just say, "Honey, whatever floats your boat." They need to get a life and who am I to enable their not getting one by giving their false hypotheses my attention?

Wonderful thread, Jim. As for "ranting", I've been doing the same on another thread, the one about "BF and crypto researchers". It's very healthy to rant and vent once in a while, and Bipto validated my feelings in his superb, concise and very articulate way that is characteristic of the brilliant young researcher that he is. 8)

Articulate? Brilliant? Young?

Bipto who?

...this time I'm gonna keep my mouth shut....nuh uh, ain't going there...well, ok, except....do ya'll want some privacy? ...see, I just can't help myself...

Don't forget the Anal probes!

Ouch!

[Eric Cartman]

You guys! I did not get an anal probe!!!

[/Eric Cartman]

Little known fact: One in ten bigfoot enjoy the anal probes.

I read it on the Internet. It must be true!

Message for our brilliant, articulate, young website owner, Bipto:

This topic should be moved to the members' lounge and a poll taken about them probes. But include me out! :roll:

LMAO @ Ella!!!

Back to fear of being ridiculed by coming out of the closet, suh, that is, I mean forest, swamp, creek bottoms--my motto is this:

WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK OF ME IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

Cased closed. 8)

A few years ago, a nappy ole geezer asked me if I was a Lesbian because I told him I wouldn't go with him to a dog fight. I replied: "If I were that desperate, I'd rather become a Lesbian than give you the time of day."

Like I said.....everyone who knows me knows I love Bigfeet and if they think I'm crazy, that's their attitude and their problem. Actually, I am crazy--about Bigfeet! 8)

****************
Keep it simple,
do the next right thing,
and don't stop five minutes before the miracle.

All I can say is excellent! LOL

Bipto, my hat is totally off to you! I have finally had some time to explore the forum, and it is awesome, and the caliber of minds and thoughts blow me away!

I could quote your entire first post in this topic, but that would be redundant.

I see only two basic reasons for not sharing research publicly, and out in the open:

First, money and glory.

Second, to protect habitat and secrets that, if known, could render a Bigfoot in danger.

Sadly, the usual reason is the former. Most Bigfoot wars are generated from this, as well.

I have rarely had to do the latter, but otherwise, short of going out and bringing in a body, to which I am morally opposed, the best way to prove they exist and to protect them is to make their reality common-place in the mind of as many people as possible. That's why I share any and all the research I can, so others can see it's not imagination, and possibly even go find out for themselves.

Again, my hat's off - excellent!

If not for mine having a different mission statement (that of promoting no-kill among diverse groups), I would shut my own forum down right now and post one sentence there: Please see Bigfoot Forums.



Was trying to find the right place to compliment the forum and figured this was a good place. I've got a lot of catching up to do! Been sort of buried over there, LOL

Wow, Cliff, thanks! I really appreciate that.

I am ammending my previous list of reasons why Bigfoot research is kept private. A third reason is what happens when something truly groundbreaking in our research is discovered. Sometimes, the researcher does not want to contend with the crazies who show up, and the personal costs encountered - multiple other researchers, Tv reporters, phone calls, on and on and on.
There can be a great personal cost when real discoveries are revealed.
So now my list has 3 basic reasons:

1 - Money and fame

2 - Protection of vital information that could endanger a Bigfoot

3- Personal privacy and protection.

Cliff, I'm absolutely, unconditionally anti-kill myself. (Except in self-dense or to protect the life of another Homo sapiens-type human.) But I do have friends who are pro-kill, like Bobby H., and I just agree to disagree. I have the greatest respect for Bobby, whose greatest concern, like mine, is habitat protection.

Yes, BFF and FOB are at the top of my list as message boards go!

Nice to see you posting here some more Cliff!
And I agree with Ella, I think Pookie needs to come visit us too...LOL

POOKIE???!!!

j/k

I typed "self-dense" up there instead of "self-defense". But "self-dense" is what describes me perfectly.

Yeah, Cliff, get the Pook over here....I love him so much. He sleeps too much anyhow.

simple: trust no tabloid. Trust no email Bigfooter. Assume most are hoaxes untilproven
not so. Trust no one who will not give a real name and real address.

Trust no anonymous person.

(even me)

Ziggs

Simple: trust no tabloid. :roll: And why should I not trust an e-mailer any less than I would a phone caller ?As far as trusting no anonymous person I think Most of us can make our own decisions on who to trust and who not to anonymous or not.

I trust you Jim!