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ludo
Eight years on, Dr J. talks (rather emotionally) about his sighting at Oregon Cave National Monument.

NOTE: There are videos and other extras at the link below.
http://www.thedailycourier.com/bigfoot/
QUOTE
Encounter at the Caves
Click to view attachment
By Jeff Duewel of the Daily Courier

Eight years ago this month Matthew Johnson’s life changed for good when, on a walk with his wife and children, he saw Bigfoot.

The 6-foot-9, 300-pound Johnson has no doubt it was Bigfoot, or Sasquatch, the at-least-8-foot-tall, primate-like, hairy creature legendary in the Pacific Northwest and considered a myth by most.

The Grants Pass psychologist told his tale on television and in the papers across the country, even internationally. He created the Southern Oregon Bigfoot Society so people could join together to chase the beast.

Johnson still gets emotional talking about his encounter.

“There it was. I had no clue what could happen,” said Johnson, tearing up. “I knew it was watching my family. Everything I knew about the great outdoors came crashing down.”

On July 1, 2000, Johnson left his wife and three children briefly on the Big Tree Loop Trail at Oregon Caves National Monument, answering nature’s call. He’d previously heard odd “whoa, whoaa, whoaa” sounds, and smelled a skunk-like stench.

While occupied off the trail, Johnson got the scare of his life.

“I saw movement, turned and saw Bigfoot leap from the pages of mythology and legend and into reality,” he said. Johnson rounded up his family and high-tailed it back to the Oregon Caves.

Derek Randles, a Bigfoot aficionado from Yelm, Wash., who has investigated well over 100 alleged sightings between 1990 and 2002, said he believes Johnson.

“On a scale of 1 to 10 I’d give him a 10,” said Randles, who said about half of his investigations turned out to be obvious hoaxes. “He’s not your typical person that sees Sasquatch. If he was lying he was doing a really good job.”

John Roth, a 20-year ranger at Oregon Caves, went with Johnson to the site the next day to investigate, and said, “There’s no question at all he did not make this up.”

But Roth, who equates Bigfoot sightings with mythical folklore from Native American days, doesn’t “believe.”

Matthew Johnson “The biology doesn’t add up for them being a flesh and blood animal,” he said. “The reports are too infrequent, too widely scattered.”

There are academics who do believe, such as Jeff Meldrum, anthropology professor at Idaho State University in Pocatello, although he chooses the wording “the evidence strongly indicates something exists.”

“Whenever you use the word ‘believe’ the naysayers use that as a pejorative label, that you’ve abandoned scientific objectivity,” Meldrum said.

Meldrum is a protégé of Gordon Krantz, the late Washington State University scientist who collected hundreds of plaster casts of footprints and other evidence such as hair, and was known as the first academic to take Bigfoot seriously.

Krantz, and now Meldrum, believe that Bigfoot could be a surviving population of gigantapithicus, a tall, ape-like creature from the Pleistocene epoch.

Meldrum said the fact that Bigfoot bones haven’t been found doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Johnson himself pointed out that in his 20 years living in Alaska he never saw a bear skeleton or bones. Acidic soils and moisture can decompose remains quickly.

“Matt was on the right track,” Meldrum said. “You don’t just find remains. We wouldn’t know about gigantapithicus if porcupines hadn’t dragged them into limestone caves.

“If Bigfoot exist, they are very rare, they have a long life expectancy, reproduce infrequently as do other apes, and die a natural death.”

What constitutes a viable population is not well understood, Meldrum said, rejecting notions of not enough numbers for reproduction.

“There are only 400 or 500 mountain gorillas,” he said.

Meldrum, who specializes in primate locomotion, and Krantz both believe the famous Patterson film taken in the late 1960s along Bluff Creek, a tributary of the Klamath River, is real.

He said footprints at the scene are “biomechanically consistent with an ape foot modified for walking on two legs.”

“My greatest resistance comes from my own colleagues,” Meldrum said. “One of them said to me they cringe whenever they see me on one of those documentaries; that they’re very concerned about Idaho State’s reputation.

“It’s mysterious to me why supposedly objective, open-minded scientists, would reject it so off-handedly with the absence of data. It can’t exist, therefore it doesn’t exist.”

The doubters are plenty.

Bob Heironimus, a retired Pepsi bottler from Yakima, Wash., told the Washington Post a few years ago that he was inside a monkey suit in the Patterson film, according to the Medford Mail Tribune’s Paul Fattig.

Fattig also wrote that the father of retired logger Ray Wallace of Centralia, Wash., started the whole Bigfoot legend in 1958 by leaving footprints with 16-inch carved, wooden feet in Humboldt County, Calif.

Johnson, a Christian says, everything happens for a reason. He said he had nothing to gain from going public with his claim.

“I was accused of trying to drum up business,” Johnson said. “Hello. Is that a good strategy to get clients? I work every day to deal with the truth.”

Johnson still takes groups out for camping trips in the area around Oregon Caves, though not as many as in the years shortly after his sighting. He said he’s found trails, bedding areas, tracks and casts of hand prints. He said the animals vocalize at night, sometimes screaming. At one bait pile left by the group, a Bigfoot actually husked some corn, he said.

Infrared video at night hasn’t produced any good images as the animals seem to detect it, Johnson said.

Johnson said following his 2000 encounter, he was caught off guard by what he called a mean-spirited, arrogant, even political approach to Bigfoot research.

“Some were extremely jealous and angry that I’m hiking in the woods and we have our encounter, and we go public with our encounter, and all of a sudden I’m thrust into the pinnacle of Bigfootdom,” he said. “A lot of them were angry and backbiting.”

Johnson, divorced and remarried since the encounter, downsized to a close group of friends in his Bigfoot pursuit, but still hasn’t given up on seeing another one.

“Once you see one, hear them scream at night, follow a set of tracks a mile through the forest you get hooked,” Johnson said. “Some people golf, bowl or fish. This is my hobby.”

o o o

Reach reporter Jeff Duewel at 474-3720 or jduewel@thedailycourier.com

On the Net: www.bfro.net

To comment on Encounter at the Caves or send your own Bigfoot story, email tmoore@thedailycourier.com
Nobody seems to have linked to this yet. If they have, my apologies.




Ludo
StacyInMI
I don't think anyone has before now, Ludo, so thanks for posting it!

While I do believe Johnson's story, I have always felt that the emotional displays had a rather phony air about them, especially now, eight years on. And I think that his "juvenile track" is a small bear overstep... however, that said, this was a very enjoyable feature and I really liked how they had him go back and point out the exact landmarks where the encounter took place, where his family was, etc. Definitely one of the better bigfoot-related features. Thanks again! smile.gif
ludo
QUOTE(StacyInMI @ Oct 13 2008, 07:24 AM) *
I don't think anyone has before now, Ludo, so thanks for posting it!

While I do believe Johnson's story, I have always felt that the emotional displays had a rather phony air about them...


Thanks, StacyInMI.

Funny you should say the above, because seeing this reminded me of another odd element of his encounter: he says here he had to answer a call of nature when he heard the deep grunting creature tracking him and his family. In other places (not in these videos) he says this was his fight or flight response kicking in. Two things puzzle me about this. One, I've never heard this bodily response reported in any other human encounters (with any wild animals, yet alone BF) and two, according to the vid, he says he wandered quite a long way from his defenceless wife and children to crimp off the required length.

Maybe fight or flight is common, and people just don't like mentioning it. But if I had been there, and had needed to go, I'd have put up with heavier, smellier pants rather than amble 60 feet away from my imperilled loved ones.

But, like you, I enjoyed the videos of the weepy Dr. J.

As Jack Handy says, "it takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."
billgreen2005bigfoot
this is a interesting new thread regarding this bigfoot encounter indeed. thanks bill.
MountainTop
Ludo,

Great post, thanks for the link! Interesting!
RedRatSnake
Hi

After reading it a few times and getting into what it is all about, I think overall it is a pretty good story and follow up done with some good little tidbits of info

Peace
Tim thumbup.gif
BF_Fence_Sitter


Looking at that picture, I got to ask, Is he really a doctor? Has anyone actually checked his credentials?
gorillagirl
QUOTE(BF_Fence_Sitter @ Oct 18 2008, 12:30 PM) *


Looking at that picture, I got to ask, Is he really a doctor? Has anyone actually checked his credentials?


Doctors come in all shapes and sizes, I wouldn't be concerned about his appearance. I have a nose ring and tattoos, and on my lazy days look like a hobo!
moregon
Yes he's a real doctor, no ifs ands or buts about it.

QUOTE
academic credentials consist of a Bachelor of Social Work (BSW) degree from U.A.A. in 1984. He graduated from Rutgers University in New Jersey with a Master of Social Work (MSW) degree in 1989. Finally, he obtained his Master of Arts (MA) and Doctor of Psychology (Psy.D.) degrees from George Fox University (GFU) in 1992 and 1994. GFU is a Christian liberal arts educational institution in Oregon, specializing in the integration of Christian theology with psychology.


A few years after his sighting he became involved in starting up a national organization called F.A.M.I.L.Y. Rules. More information can be found HERE.

A couple things struck me about his sighting that seems to add validation to it in fact being real.

1. His story has not changed from the first time he told it even through recent retelling of his sighting experience.

2. He came out publicly, using his real name when the incident occurred.

3. By doing so he had a lot to risk, his practice, his patients, future patients, credibility, etc.

At 6'9" tall and over 300 pounds I tend to believe his estimation of it being 8 foot plus tall more so than someone who is say 5'6" tall simply because he had to know if it was taller or shorter than himself.
Randy_Hutchings
QUOTE(BF_Fence_Sitter @ Oct 17 2008, 10:00 PM) *


Looking at that picture, I got to ask, Is he really a doctor? Has anyone actually checked his credentials?



Yep, he's a real doctor...I remember back when this first happened, and from what I remember, he'd went up a hill to releave himself as he didn't think he could wait till they got back to the ranger station or whatever...

While he was up there doing his business, he looked down and some ways into the woodline on the other side of the trail, and behind a tree he saw this particular Bigfoot leaning around, looking at his wife and kid(s)...

This is when he originally said his flight or fight kicked in, from what I remember...He zipped up, came down the hill, and hurried his family down the trail towards the ranger station, where he made his sighting known...

All in all it was a pretty cut and dry sighting with nothing overly "wow" to set it aside from dozens of others people report every year, save in this instance he just so happened to be a psychiatrist, which made people sit up and take notice at the time...

And for what it's worth, I saw "something" that scared the living hell outta me about 14 years back that, at the time, frightened me to tears, and when recalling the story to a few folks over those years, I've gotten pretty misty eyed...Not so much emotional, per se, just drawn into it all over again when I was asked to relate the incident...

And hell, I'm 6ft 4 and 275lbs and don't cry at much anything... ermm.gif
Teresa
Being a psychologist he's probably more aware of the term "fight or flight" recognized that emotion at the time of the sighting and used that term because he's familiar with it from his education. Self analysis sort of. As for his leaving his family to heed nature's call, I thought he'd said he was taking a dump, not peeing. Doesn't affect his sighting other than he may have been squatting rather than standing up and from a squatting position he'd be no better than someone 5'6" at judging height.

two pennies.

Here's Dr. Johnson's story of his sighting. I was right, he had to "poop."

QUOTE
Date: July1, 2000
Josephine county, OR

Nearest town: Grant Pass
Nearest road:
Conditions:
Time: late afternoon
Location:

Description of event: Where to begin? Rochelle and I took our kids to the Oregon Caves National Park in southern Oregon. We ate lunch at a picnic table and then took a tour of the caves. The caves were spectacular. If you haven€™t seen them before, they are a must see experience. Dr. Matthew Johnson with wife Rochelle. Photo taken a few days after the incident when he and his family returned with BFRO Investigators.Photo by BFRO Investigator John Freitas Upon our exit of the cave, everyone usually turns to the right to go back down to the gift store and lodge. However, we are fresh from Alaska and love to hike in the outdoors (i.e., we just moved from Alaska to Oregon earlier this year). We decided to go left and hike up to see the Big Tree (i.e., a Douglas fir tree with a circumference of 40 feet that is about 800 to 1,000 years old). We hiked for about 2 miles into the forest up the mountain. As we were hiking up the trail, we smelled a very strong pungent smell. It was as strong as a skunk but it wasn€™t a skunk (i.e., we know what a skunk smells like and it wasn€™t a skunk even though it was as strong smelling as a skunk). We were standing down wind of the smell. We continued to hike up the trail and the trail started to switch back to the right as we climbed the mountain. There were plenty of tall trees and brush. I heard a faint sound (i.e., €œWhoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!). At first I thought it was the blood vessels pounding in my head because it was a constant sound / rhythm and I€™m out of shape (i.e., it was a big mountain and we were constantly walking up, up, up, up). We kept walking up the trail. I heard the sound again except it was louder. Then I thought, €œThis sound is external €“ not internal.€ We all stopped and I asked, €œDo you guys here that sound?€ Rochelle, Levi, Hannah, and Micah looked at me and nodded their heads in affirmation. Don€™t ask me why but we continued to walk up the mountain through the very tall trees and brush. The sound continued in cycles of five to six repetitions (i.e., Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa). Louder and louder. Now the sounds were behind us. I started putting one and one together in my mind and my biological €œfight or flight€ responses kicked in. I stopped my family on the trail. I told them to stay quiet. I hiked up the hill to our left because I had to go poop ASAP (i.e., this happens when the biological €œfight or flight€ response kicks in). While I was doing my duty, I was scanning the woods down the mountain on the other side of the trail my family was standing on. That€™s when I saw it. I saw it come out from behind one tree to the left and walk to another tree to the right. Then it looked back and was watching my family while they were standing on the trail. Location of the observation, from the perspective of the witness.Photo by John Freitas. I€™ve hiked through the woods in Alaska numerous times and believe me, I know what a grizzly bear looks like and I know what a black bear looks like. I was actually chased by a grizzly bear on the Russian river in Alaska about six or seven years ago. What I saw was not a grizzly bear or a black bear. What I saw walked upright on two legs like a human and it was much taller than a grizzly bear or a black bear. What I saw was Bigfoot (otherwise known as Sasquatch). I pulled up my shorts immediately, walked fast down to the trail and got my family moving up the mountain. I sure as heck wasn€™t going to go back down the trail where we came from and go right to it. I didn€™t tell my wife or children what I saw because I didn€™t want them to panic. At this point, the adrenaline was rushing and I was very hypervigilent (i.e., constantly looking behind us and through the woods). The sound stopped but I wasn€™t convinced we were safe. When we got to a place where the kids could stop and sit on a fallen log to rest and drink some water, I pulled Rochelle away and told here that she wasn€™t going to believe what I saw. She believed me right away. She smelled the smell and she heard the repetitive cycles of €œWhoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa€ and she knows I€™m not crazy. I told her to keep the kids going and that I would stay at the back to keep my eyes on what was behind us. I told her that if anything came up from behind us or through the woods from the side of us that I would run interference to protect them. I told her that if this happened, I wanted her to run the kids on the trail, don€™t stop, and don€™t look back. We agreed not to tell the children because we didn€™t want to panic them. We never heard the sounds again and I never saw anything after that. We finally made it out of the woods about 1 hours later. We sent the kids into the gift store to look for a gift because we had promised to buy them something if they were good hikers and didn€™t complain. Rochelle and I sat on the bench outside the gift store and talked about the pro€™s and con€™s of whether or not to report what we smelled, heard, and saw (i.e., I don€™t want people to think we are crazy). Rochelle said it was up to me. I decided that I wasn€™t going to keep this a secret because it was real and I know I€™m sane. I remembered reading about how the albino gorilla was a myth/legend in Africa for quite some time until someone finally captured one. Well I€™m here to tell you today (and the world) that Bigfoot/Sasquatch is not a myth/legend. The creature/animal really and truly does exist!!National Park Service Ranger John accompanies the investigators.Photo by John Freitas. After we made our decision, Rochelle went into the gift shop with the kids. I walked to the Park headquarters and reported what I saw to NPS Ranger Beverly. I sat in the chair stunned and then I began to cry. All these emotions that I was stuffing due to the adrenaline began to surface now that my family and I were safe. You don€™t know how vulnerable I felt being so far out in the woods without the ability to protect my family in that kind of situation (i.e., no gun). I told the ranger that I was not crazy. I gave her my business card (i.e., I€™m a licensed psychologist in private practice). I told her that I have two master€™s degrees and one doctorate degree and that I was an intelligent person. I told her that I know what I smelled, heard, and saw. In between the tears and my shaking, I told her that I saw Bigfoot. She believed me! She didn€™t think I was crazy. She said that there is a lot about our world that we don€™t know and that we are discovering new species all the time. She took my story, Rochelle€™s story, and Levi confirmed what the noise sounded like. I was the only one who saw Bigfoot because I had hiked up off the trail high enough to see it. I can€™t tell you what it looked like other than it was very tall, looked half-human and half ape, walked upright, and had very dark hair (i.e., a mix of very dark brown and/or black hair). It happened way too quick and all I could think about after I saw it was to get my family the heck out of there. I€™ve done some surfing on the internet and what I saw looked a lot like this picture below. Rochelle and I are willing to talk with anyone. We don€™t believe that it is right to have this kind of experience and to hide it from the rest of the world. Please feel free to pass this on to anyone you think would be interested in hearing the truth. This is a true story that just happened today (7-1-2000 shortly after 5pm). Dr. Matthew A. Johnson BFRO investigator Scott Herriott installs motion-activated camera on the mountain side.Photo by John Freitas

OTHER WITNESSES: Myself, my wife, my three children

ENVIRONMENT: National forest at the Oregon Caves

Follow-up investigation report by BFRO Investigator John Freitas:

Update: July 25, 2000: BFRO investigators have been working intermittently in the area since Dr. Johnson's incident. Large indistinct tracks have been found, but nothing worth casting. A few other credible witnesses have come forward reporting similar incidents in the same area prior to Johnson's incident.

Source: BFRO
record updated: 2002-07-10 00:00:00

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/report_detail.php?id=00234
RayG
QUOTE(Randy_Hutchings @ Oct 30 2008, 04:29 AM) *
While he was up there doing his business, he looked down and some ways into the woodline on the other side of the trail, and behind a tree he saw this particular Bigfoot leaning around, looking at his wife and kid(s)...

This is when he originally said his flight or fight kicked in, from what I remember...He zipped up, came down the hill, and hurried his family down the trail towards the ranger station, where he made his sighting known...


According to his report, the 'fight or flight' adrenaline rush happened before the urge to relieve himself.

QUOTE
As we were hiking up the trail, we smelled a very strong pungent smell... The sound continued in cycles of five to six repetitions (i.e., Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa). Louder and louder. Now the sounds were behind us. I started putting one and one together in my mind and my biological “fight or flight” responses kicked in. I stopped my family on the trail. I told them to stay quiet. I hiked up the hill to our left because I had to go poop ASAP (i.e., this happens when the biological “fight or flight” response kicks in). While I was doing my duty, I was scanning the woods down the mountain on the other side of the trail my family was standing on. That’s when I saw it. I saw it come out from behind one tree to the left and walk to another tree to the right.


My bolding.

Apparently the smell + the noises already had him thinking sasquatch. Given Dr. Johnson's state of mind at the time of his sighting, and him seemingly jumping to conclusions prior to that sighting, I'm unconvinced he saw bigfoot.

His report can also be found here.

RayG
ludo
RayG, that's a point worth making.

And, apologies for repeating myself, but it makes my earlier thought even more (to my mind) valid: I cannot conceive of a situation where, having strong suspicions that a bigfoot is tracking my family, I'd leave them.
Hitechhunter
I just spent nine days in the woods up there last week. I did find two tracks about 5 mi south of the caves, though not very distinct due to the forest floor duff. I video'd the tracks, but haven't had time to download them off the camera yet.
ludo
Tonight (Sunday 16th) in the UK on BBC1 there was a show called Stephen Fry in America. Stephen Fry, that much-loved English comedian and notoriously smart brainbox has been visiting all 50 states of the country in which he was so nearly born (if it wasn't for his dad hotfooting it back to the UK before his ma squeezed him out).

His journey from San Francisco to Seattle took in the PNW, and, interested in sasquatch, he met Matthew Johnson. Johnson provided the same sequence of events as he has previously, even down to saying the same phrases. For example, "I saw Bigfoot leap from the pages of legend into reality". The good doctor even had a bit of a weep once more when he mentioned his family all alone on the trail, while the 6 foot 9 Dr. Matt wandered 70 meters away to dispatch his smelly 'fight or flight' message to the world.

I apologise. Perhaps I'm being harsh. But I can't help wondering if/when, having survived a sasquatch-stalking quite close to general humankind on a well-known trail, you stop weeping when you mention your loved ones. After 8 years I think I'd have dried up. And I'm someone who can't watch It's A Wonderful Life without howling.

This, the last episode of Stephen Fry in America is not watchable on the BBC site yet, but it will be: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00fc..._Fry_in_America
rockinkt
You are making some very valid points ludo.
You too, RayG.

There are some red flags in his account - but not enough for me to call it without a proper interview and the good doctor would not be an easy person to interview due to his great knowledge of psychology.
I personally put this in the ??? file - but find it an interesting account.
bipedalist
QUOTE(moregon @ Oct 17 2008, 11:20 PM) *
Yes he's a real doctor, no ifs ands or buts about it. snip

QUOTE
3. By doing so he had a lot to risk, his practice, his patients, future patients, credibility, etc.


At 6'9" tall and over 300 pounds I tend to believe his estimation of it being 8 foot plus tall more so than someone who is say 5'6" tall simply
QUOTE
because he had to know if it was taller or shorter than himself.



Sounds like it cost him his marriage too from the sounds of things. Also, in the Daily Courier video he said that the reason he knew its height is because it was peering over a live evergreen that he checked out at a later time as being over seven ft. high so the animal therefore appeared 8 1/2 or 9 ft. to him he assumed.
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