I'm a new member here and can't post anywhere else, but I need someone with more experience to give me some advice quickly so I can try to preserve this scat. Admins feel free to move this thread to the correct forum if necessary.

Thursday (8/28/08) I headed out with 2 friends to research sasquatch in northwest Washington. This is a hard-to-reach location that few people know about. We have had strange encounters at this spot and the arduous hike out to it for several years now, but no hard evidence of sasquatch.

Thursday afternoon we came across a flat rock about a foot high, a foot wide and maybe 2 feet long, normally a nice sitting rock. On the rock was some kind of animal scat that had probably come out as diarrhea or at least somewhat loose, meaning that it did not appear to have any form or cylindrical shape you would expect from normal scat.

The scat is very dark, almost black, and has the consistency of rich potting soil. It has a very pungent smell unlike other animal scat I've smelled.

Mixed into the scat were some blades of grass and salmon berry leaves, although the grass and leaves had not passed through the animal's digestive system. These were used to either wipe the animal's butt after defecating, or (more plausible) the animal used them to sift through the poop after it had finished. There was a tapeworm in the scat, so the animal may have felt the tapeworm itching and wanted to check its own scat, obviously an animal with some degree of intelligence. The grass and leaves were picked from about 10 to 15 feet away from where the animal pooped on the rock.

Just beyond this rock was a bluff where we found a very recent trail. Along this trail, just out of view from the scat rock but only about 30 feet away, was an area roughly 10 feet by 15 feet where a group of maybe 3 or 4 large animals had bedded down. The tall grass and other plants were pressed down and the plants were all broken and bent over a few inched above the ground. This was on a slope of about 30 degrees, pretty steep. I imagine the animals only rested here momentarily and not overnight, because the foliage wasn't completely matted down and the slope was too steep. There are bear in the area and bears could have made the imprints. The animals had then moved on and we could see 2 distinct trails away from the bedded down region, we didn't follow them any further because we had to press on for lack of daylight.

We camped for a day and a half after we initially saw the scat. It rained while we were gone. On the way back today (8/30/08) we carefully scooped the scat into a ziplock bag and brought it back with us.

I now have the scat in the same ziplock bag but I do not know what to do with it. Is there a certain way I should preserve it? I haven't put it in the freezer because I am worried about damaging any evidence.

Is there somebody I could send this sample to for analysis? It is very possible that this was left by some other animal but the scat looked less than a day old, it hadn't looked like anybody had been in the area for at least several days, and I don't know of any animal that would have sifted through scat using leaves and grass. A person would have used a stick to sift through it, there were several sticks around -- using leaves and grass is just messy, no person would have gotten their fingers covered in the scat.


Call me crazy, but here's my hypothesis: I think it's possible that a group of sasquatches were traveling together. One had been sick or discomforted by its worms, possibly a younger one because there wasn't as much scat as a full grown human would have left behind. It purposefully pooped on the flat rock so it could sift through its droppings. It then walked 10 feet and grabbed some leaves and grass, walked back and sifted through its droppings. It then walked over the bluff and met the rest of the sasquatches which were waiting bedded down in the grass. Then they all moved on through the grass and into the thick forest.

Anyway, any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'll post some pictures soon.

Did you collect the tapeworm? I am no biologist, but it would seem plausible that a parasite may contain DNA of its host.

We did collect the worm, along with some of the leaves and grass the animal used. It's all together in the ziplock bag.

Here are some pictures, the scat and the bedded down area nearby.

Interesting photos. I have seen probable bear crap in Yellowstone and the Smokies, and I would have to say it looked simiular to this. But why would a bear seek out a rock to crap on? I found an unknown scat pile once in Washington that was huge and looked nothing like this. Prehaps that animal was healthy and this one was'nt. Your discovery is quite puzzling to be sure. Sorry, I am just an ordinary Joe and can't tell you what to do with it.

Do you have a pic of what you think is a tapeworm?

Animals will defecate in or on obvious areas such as trails as a way of letting others know that they are around. I have seen scat deposited by bears, lynx, coyotes and wolves in such a manner. The other foilage is a little odd for sure. As for possible tapeworms or other intestinal parasites, animals (and people) will notice the itching sensation at the anus when the worms come out. I've seen many animals become adgitated and lick or do the "scoot" because of it and sniff and inspect to see if something came out.

Ya, but it would take something with a degree of intelligence and opposable thumbs to poop on a flat rock with the intent of inspecting it, then pick grass and leaves and return to inspect. It could have been a person looking through poop on a rock, but the circumstances are odd.

Anyway, back to the point. I have this poop in a ziplock bag. Is there a better way to preserve it, should I let it dry out? Should I freeze it? Is there anybody I should send it to for any kind of analysis?

Also, has anybody heard of any primates displaying this kind of behavior, inspecting their scat or others' scat?

This may be old or outdated information. Apeman may be able to correct me. Time is very important when it comes to fecal samples. The older they are the more degrades they become due to bacteria. This can make DNA hard to retrieve. On the other hand many things can be learned from examination. My understanding is to place the sample in a sterile container and partly fill the container with 95% ethyl alcohol. This stops the samples from deteriorating much further. If this is not possible the sample should be frozen as soon as possible.

No ethyl alcohol so I double bagged it and put it in the freezer. I don't know what to do with it so if anybody wants it please let me know.

Anonymous- With all due respect, you're making a number of assumptions about this sample based on very little evidence. There are a number of explanations for what you've observed, which is why I've asked for some confirmation that what you observed is actually a tapeworm as opposed to countless things often mistaken for tapeworms and other intestinal parasites. I'm not trying to question your intelligence, observation skills or anything else, just trying to proceed down a normal line of reasoning and rule outs.

If the sample is frozen, it's fine for now and probably best left that way rather than handling again. But could you post any other pictures you have and try to confirm that you saw a tapeworm. Can you see it through the bags? There are options for having the sample analyzed, but in cases like this it's important to screen the evidence in order to avoid wasting time, money, and favors on samples from perfectly "normal" animals.

-Apeman

I don't have a picture of the worm, and I don't have a camera. The sample is frozen now, thanks for confirming that freezing it is best. If anybody wants the sample I can send it to them, otherwise it'll just sit in my freezer.

No thanks. I get enough crap in the mail as it is.

Freezer and bigfoot.

Uh, oh.


Looks like a constipated bear sample

If I found a sample like yours that I couldn't identify, I would first get the opinion of someone who frequently hunts or (even better) does a lot of tracking. If you don't know such a person, ask around at your local gun shop. Or, perhaps a call to your local Fish & Wildlife Department would be a place to start - I would probably not say something like "I found some sasquatch poop" but more like "I ran across a strange pile of scat in the woods and was wondering if you could help me identify it." If, after talking to some local experts, you are unable to identify the source of the poop then I'd recommend getting in touch with Dr. Meldrum at the University of Idaho. Perhaps he would be willing to examine the scat, or could point you in the direction of someone who could analyze it for you.

Hope this helps. Good luck and let us know what you find out!

Edited because I can't type.

cut and pasted from another recent BF dung related thread...if it'll help with this disucssion:


"Wellll......If any one ever does find a fresh BF "steamer".... DNA Testing Center Inc ( www.dnatestingcentre.com/samples.htm ) can apparently test it for you for a mere 360 bones.

the following snippet is from their website

"Fecal matter is almost entirely composed of bacteria. You must freeze fecal matter immediately (at least within 12 hours) and keep frozen until you send it in. Fecal matter that is not immediately frozen will not work."

And ...if you are really interested in getting the straight....(ahem)...poop....about DNA testing fecal matter...here is a link to a paper written by a gentleman (gentleperson) from California State University, Los Angeles, Department of Criminal Justice.

http://www.promega.com/GENETICIDPROC/ussym...acts/martin.pdf

a snippet from the paper:

"All alleles detected in the fecal samples matched that the subject’s reference sample. No extraneous peaks were noted; therefore, there is no direct evidence of foreign DNA from plant or animal sources being typed.""