Full Version: MINNESOTA ICEMAN QUESTIONS
Vern Langdon has offered some lively posts and its nice to have him at BFF. But I have one problem with the MIM that has yet to be resolved to my satisfaction. I saw the exibit in 1972 and viewed it numerous over the course of the week it was displayed at a Long Island Shopping Mall. I've posted my impressions of what I saw and they need not be recounted here. However the creature I viewed in 1972 was not the same as the creature that appeared in Argosy Magazine in 1968. This has bothered me ever since especially because there is the story that the original Iceman was replaced by a model. Since I'm sure there are others here that saw the Iceman in the early 1970's I'd like to know if they too saw a display that was different from the Argosy article.
I listened to Brian's interview with Verne Langdon and this was brought up. Verne said he had no idea about that aspect of the story. He had lost interest, or was involved with other projects by then.
Assuming that the first one may have been damaged somehow I would imagine Hanson had another one made, or perhaps he had the second one copied from the first even before it was frozen and used it instead of the first one for whatever reason... I have heard that it did not look as 'real' as the original, the mouth was different, etc. etc. who knows.
I listened to Brian's interview with Verne Langdon and this was brought up. Verne said he had no idea about that aspect of the story. He had lost interest, or was involved with other projects by then.
Assuming that the first one may have been damaged somehow I would imagine Hanson had another one made, or perhaps he had the second one copied from the first even before it was frozen and used it instead of the first one for whatever reason... I have heard that it did not look as 'real' as the original, the mouth was different, etc. etc. who knows.
The one I saw looked the same as the one in Argosy, but I was just a kid, and I wasn't paying that much attention to details.
Assuming that the first one may have been damaged somehow I would imagine Hanson had another one made, or perhaps he had the second one copied from the first even before it was frozen and used it instead of the first one for whatever reason... I have heard that it did not look as 'real' as the original, the mouth was different, etc. etc. who knows.
I listened to Brian's interview with Verne Langdon and this was brought up. Verne said he had no idea about that aspect of the story. He had lost interest, or was involved with other projects by then.
Assuming that the first one may have been damaged somehow I would imagine Hanson had another one made, or perhaps he had the second one copied from the first even before it was frozen and used it instead of the first one for whatever reason... I have heard that it did not look as 'real' as the original, the mouth was different, etc. etc. who knows.
The one I saw looked the same as the one in Argosy, but I was just a kid, and I wasn't paying that much attention to details.
There is every possibility that Hansen had two fake icemen so that he could cover two different fairs at the same time.
According to Langdon:
"Makeup Master John Chambers was working with us on several things at the time, so Don Sr. and I consulted with John about whether or not to take on the project. We unanimously decided against it because we felt it was an elaborate (and somewhat shady) hoax with which we did not wish to become directly involved. Frank Hansen, upon being told this, pressed us for a referral. We suggested he take his idea to Howard Ball, who was the artist responsible for sculpting the extremely lifelike dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures at the world-famous LaBrea Tar Pits in Los Angeles. We further suggested he have Howard cast the figure in hot melt, which we felt would hold up far better than rubber or any other then-known material in the ice. We contacted Howard and put him in touch with Hansen, and Frank Hansen delivered his "hot melt iceman" idea to Mr. Ball. When Howard Ball had completed the sculpture and the casting, Frank brought the creature to us to see. It looked exactly as he had designed, and the flesh-colored hot melt made it look even more realistic. John contacted Werner Keppler at Universal for Frank, and Werner agreed to make up the creature, then ventillate Yak hair into it, one, two, or three hairs at a time, depending upon the area of the body. Meticulous work, of which Werner is a master!"
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...hl=Vern+Langdon
According to Hansen:
"In January 1967, I made sketches of the real creature and went to Hollywood to confer with the men who make models for the motion picture industry. I talked with Bud Westmore, the director of make-up at Universal Studios. He informed me that such a model might cost up to $20.000. Westmore didn't have the time to make the creation, but he agreed to offer his technical knowledge if I needed it. He also agreed that it would be a "challenging" endeavor. I then consulted with a staff member of the Los Angeles County Museum. He suggested that I contact Howard Ball, an independent artist who was creating life-size fiberglass elephants to be displayed at the La Brea tar pits. I later engaged Ball to sculpture the carcass and mold the body.
John Chambers, a make-up artist and academy award winner from 2Oth-Century Fox suggested that a small wax studio in Los Angeles could implant the hair according to my specifications. I approached Pete and Betty Corral. They agreed to do the work and implanted each hair individually with an open-end needle. I constantly directed this portion and their work was magnificent. They were greet artists and a pleasure to deal with."
http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/papers/hansen.html
A Tale of Two Models?
"Makeup Master John Chambers was working with us on several things at the time, so Don Sr. and I consulted with John about whether or not to take on the project. We unanimously decided against it because we felt it was an elaborate (and somewhat shady) hoax with which we did not wish to become directly involved. Frank Hansen, upon being told this, pressed us for a referral. We suggested he take his idea to Howard Ball, who was the artist responsible for sculpting the extremely lifelike dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures at the world-famous LaBrea Tar Pits in Los Angeles. We further suggested he have Howard cast the figure in hot melt, which we felt would hold up far better than rubber or any other then-known material in the ice. We contacted Howard and put him in touch with Hansen, and Frank Hansen delivered his "hot melt iceman" idea to Mr. Ball. When Howard Ball had completed the sculpture and the casting, Frank brought the creature to us to see. It looked exactly as he had designed, and the flesh-colored hot melt made it look even more realistic. John contacted Werner Keppler at Universal for Frank, and Werner agreed to make up the creature, then ventillate Yak hair into it, one, two, or three hairs at a time, depending upon the area of the body. Meticulous work, of which Werner is a master!"
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...hl=Vern+Langdon
According to Hansen:
"In January 1967, I made sketches of the real creature and went to Hollywood to confer with the men who make models for the motion picture industry. I talked with Bud Westmore, the director of make-up at Universal Studios. He informed me that such a model might cost up to $20.000. Westmore didn't have the time to make the creation, but he agreed to offer his technical knowledge if I needed it. He also agreed that it would be a "challenging" endeavor. I then consulted with a staff member of the Los Angeles County Museum. He suggested that I contact Howard Ball, an independent artist who was creating life-size fiberglass elephants to be displayed at the La Brea tar pits. I later engaged Ball to sculpture the carcass and mold the body.
John Chambers, a make-up artist and academy award winner from 2Oth-Century Fox suggested that a small wax studio in Los Angeles could implant the hair according to my specifications. I approached Pete and Betty Corral. They agreed to do the work and implanted each hair individually with an open-end needle. I constantly directed this portion and their work was magnificent. They were greet artists and a pleasure to deal with."
http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/papers/hansen.html
A Tale of Two Models?
hey crow thats awesome you saw the minnesota iceman exibit i see you have differant opinions about it indeed. this is a great thread about minnesota iceman maybe the admins here should think about doing a sub forum for these minnesota ice man threads just a thought. updates as they continue.. good afternoon bill 
Crowlogic,
Is this what you saw?
Is this what you saw?
QUOTE(wolftrax @ Sep 1 2008, 01:55 PM) 
Crowlogic,
Is this what you saw?
Is this what you saw?
No. The photo you've posted looks like the Argosy exibit. The version I saw differed in having its mouth open wider with a more pug nose and judging from the photo the head and face were more round. Also the plume of tissue/blood from the blown out eye socket was more intense. The hair/fur was sort of the color of an Orangutan. Do you know what year the photo you've posted comes from?
That photo was taken by Loren Coleman in 1969, after the alleged "Body switch" and identified by Sanderson & Heuvelmans as the fake.
Was it necessary to make the thread title in all capital letters? 
Is there any prove that the ICEMAN was real or a hoax? And is there any idea were is the ICEMAN or was it destroyed
QUOTE(Incorrigible1 @ Sep 1 2008, 06:35 PM)
Was it necessary to make the thread title in all capital letters?
Yes, for the same reason that the other MIM thread was all capitalized. Is it neccessary for you to worry about such things?
QUOTE(Crow Logic @ Sep 1 2008, 08:45 PM)
Yes, for the same reason that the other MIM thread was all capitalized. Is it neccessary for you to worry about such things?
Yet Mr. Langdon was a first-time poster, and you're..........not. Just seems silly for a longtime poster to do so.
Sorry if I touched a nerve, or anything.
QUOTE(MANLIKECREATURE @ Sep 1 2008, 08:34 PM)
Is there any prove that the ICEMAN was real or a hoax?
I think that depends on which side you're on.
QUOTE
And is there any idea were is the ICEMAN or was it destroyed
It (or they) vanished. Interesting article here:
http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/..._update2005.htm
No - it depends one whether one looks at the facts and uses critical thinking.
QUOTE(rockinkt @ Sep 2 2008, 03:32 AM)
No - it depends one whether one looks at the facts and uses critical thinking.
Indeed. I didn't buy any of this crap when I was a little boy reading about in Peter Byrne's book* in the '70s. I'm surprised to learn that grown adults actually consider its authenticity in 2008.
*"Bigfoot: monster, myth, or man?" I'm pretty sure Byrne included a photo and "sketch from the photo" of the iceman, and it was the round-headed, pug-nosed version.
For what it's worth...
I saw the Iceman at a mall display in the mid 70's and it looked "exactly" like the one in Argosy. In fact, at the display they gave out some literature which included a reprint of the Argosy article. It was interesting at the time (but my girlfriend, who was with me, wasn't too impressed
!).
I saw the Iceman at a mall display in the mid 70's and it looked "exactly" like the one in Argosy. In fact, at the display they gave out some literature which included a reprint of the Argosy article. It was interesting at the time (but my girlfriend, who was with me, wasn't too impressed
!).
Iceman must be pretty po'd since the retirement of the F-14. Or Slider, cause there's no more need for a RIO.
In seriousness, what does Verne have to say about this? Mr. Langdon?
In seriousness, what does Verne have to say about this? Mr. Langdon?
Is Frank Hansen still alive? Forgive me if it was already mentioned in a past post...I tried running through them all...
I believe he is, but he is not talking.
QUOTE(Robert @ Sep 7 2008, 03:52 PM)
I believe he is (dead), but he is not talking.
Road trip!
Destination Rollingstone, Minn....the Hansen farmstead!
grab a crow bar, a hack saw, a blow torch and a case o' PBR.
We'll solve this mystery yet!
Who's with me!
.......(crickets chirping)
Hansen is dead - 2002 I think.
Was he frozen in a block of ice?
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