Hello all!

I've been looking into a GPS unit for hiking purposes (I plan on thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail when I retire in about two years) and haven't had any luck so far with my limited experience.

My limited experience is this, I bought a Garmin GPS for the wife's car. She was very happy about the idea and we were quick to try it out. The problem was the signal. It couldn't get through the trees. We live in an area that has a large amount of trees (not like a forrest or anything) that hang over a lot of the roads. The GPS would only pick up a signal when we were on open road but would quickly lose it under even the smallest canopy of trees. I thought, what the heck good is this?

I don't remember the model but I returned it to Circuit City and got my $550 bucks back.

So my concern/question is, has anyone got a recommendation for a GPS that works in and around trees?

I figure my spending limit is around $400.00 or so, give or take.

I have seen some with two way radios but I really don't think I need that as I don't plan on communicating with anyone. Unless it's a good idea just to have in case of an emergency.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Seph, go to www.bigfootresearch.com and PM Pete Wilson. He works for Garmin and can probably help you out with the problem and also give you a really sweet deal on a GPS.

T

While investing in that new GPS system, take some of the money you save and invest in a half way decent compass as well and learn how to use it. Currently we are at the bottom of the Sunspot Cycle, also known as Solar Minimum and any day now could start the progressive climb to Solar Maximum. This will be the beginning of an 11 year Solar Cycle, and some scientists are predicting this is going to be the most active one in modern history, based on the pattern of known recent past cycles. So what does that have to do with GPS? During X-Class Flares, Solar Storms and other disturbances on the Sun's surface it interferes with the Satellite signals that GPS uses. High Quality, High Dollar GPS units can suffer as much as a 50 meter (164 feet) error in it's calculations of your position. If using Waypoints 1 error of 164 feet wouldn't be disastrous but imagine if you had 10 and each was 164 feet off.. you could be 1/4 mile off your mark by the time you returned if not further.

I hear if you get a WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System} enabled GPS that will increase the accuracy up to being within 9 meters of your location 95% of the time... no idea how far off you'll be the other 5% of the time, or if it will still maintain that accuracy during Severe Solar Weather. If at all possibly don't put all your eggs into one basket when your safety and welfare depend on it.

Which brings into question the need to have a compass also because many gps units will not show you true north unless you are moving at 2 mph while attempting to
visualize the direction(some of the higher end ones will while stationary show N). This is reason in itself to be proficient with map and compass.

I agree, a GPS will never replace a good compass and the proficiency to use it.

Seph, look at the DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20. The package usually includes DeLorme Topo DVD(s). Maps and imagery can be downloaded from DeLorme also. It has a large display. Print your own maps ( have a large supply of ink for your printer ). Personal maps to go with your compass !!!!

Do you have a DeLorme Atlas & Gazetteer for your area? Two copies. One clean one for mission planning at home and the other is the tattered, beverage-stained field use gazetteer. Keep in mind that areas of interest will be under the staples...........

I have three copies of the gazetteer one in the house, one in the car and one that looks like it has gone through the war, AND a really good compass. Did I mention that a friend and I got lost using her Garmin. Seems that the addresses in rural areas are not that accurate or something. or for that matter last summer ours kept telling us to turn left in Chicago on the six lane (during rush hour) with no place to "turn left".

Thanks for the replies!

Teresa: I don't think the problem was with the Garmin brand I bought so much as it was the tree cover. I have SIRIUS satellite radio in the Jeep and I loose the signal in the same spots. I just doesn't take as long to re-acquire the signal.

Moregon, Teresa, Bipedalist: Compass, good idea! (I'm having one of those duh moments on myself ). I do seriously need to update my compass and topography reading skills. Thanks for the reminder! Moregon, your post was really interesting. I had no idea of the intricacies (sp?) involved! I guess I fall into the category of user/consumer when it comes to these things. I know if I want to listen to satellite radio, I just hit the SAT button on the console. I couldn't tell you where the signal comes from or how it gets there. I really should look into that.

Catmandu: Thanks for the info! I'll look into the Earthmate GPS as it seems from a quick glance that it is within my budget (and I'd have enough left over for a good compass to boot!). Do you use one of these? How is the signal strength/connectivity in the woods?

Wildwoman (love the name!): Reminds me of the old mapquest driving directions. I printed one set out for a trip a number of years ago and ended up getting totally lost. Mapquest wanted me to turn down streets that didn't exist. Maybe Google maps should team up with a GPS manufacturer. These days I can type in my address and go to street view and look right at the front door of my house! That's a bit creepy to me.

Having used GPS since its inception ( back in the old plugger days)- its good and works reasonably well today but to me, theres simply no substitute for good old land navigation.

Dont scrimp on the compass and the best ever made is the M-2 compass ( artillery) with a degree ring option ( the M-2 comes standard with mils).( every Operators preferred instrument) The standard lensatic will do everything most will ever need.

I would strongly suggest that anyone needing training to obtain a copy of FM 21-26 ( map reading and land navigation) or the new latest and greatest FM 3-25.26 which supersceeds it. ( Its been called the most in depth and inclusive training manual on all elements of land nav ever written)

If anyone needs it, I have a digital copy (pdf) if anyone wants to host it with a FTP server for the masses

Under $400? Then you're in luck.

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=146&pID=8523

Besides tons of bells and whistles... you have weather radio built in too.

When I can save up a few bucks, it's what I'm hoping to get, unless they come up with something even better.

Oops! Forgot to tell you that you'd have to order that thru WalMart.com online and have it shipped to your local store. Every other place I've seen it, it's a heck of a lot more.

Radio Shack carries them too, just more $$. I just really like the combination of virtually everything you can think of needing, in one unit.

-Mike

I really appreciate all the replies! I've decided to go back to the basics and re-familiarize myself with the good old fashioned compass and topographical map. Since my planned hike is still a couple of years away, I'll hold off on the GPS unit for a while - although the units mentioned here are REALLY tempting!

I had two thoughts about needing a GPS. One, if I were to become injured, I would want to be able to say with a reasonable amount of certainty where I was located (hinging on the fact that I could get a cell phone signal). And two, if I came across another hiker who was injured and needed help, I could follow the same logic.

After reading the common sense replies here, I feel it is prudent that I become proficient in the compass. Knowing me, if I had the GPS, I wouldn't bother with going back to the old reliable method and if the batteries were to die or if the unit somehow became damaged, I'd be screwed without the knowledge of how to use a backup method.

If I were you and going to walk the Appie (been there done that) I would invest in a sat phone. On more than one occasion I was without cell for more than a day and a couple times did not get signal again until the third day. No biggee in the regular world but if you are out there and with busted leg etc. you would be without a signal unless you can gimp your way for about twice that long(assuming slow due to injury) to the next cell signal. I went as long as 4 days without seeing another hiker so dont count on that.

When my youngest son graduates in a year or so me and three sons will do a "through hike" and not do it in sections of a couple hundred miles like the last time.

Will take us roughly 6 months straight

Get maps of the trail. TOPO maps and study them and take them with you. I strongly suggest training with compass. Go out and put markers in the woods at varying distances and many differing types of terrain. Then have a partner do this as well in another area. Make some short some long etc. Put more than one marker within a small area. Use ONE as the target.

Then make each other range cards. With things like 280 degrees 430 meters for each target. Then send them out and have them run the course and end up back at the beginning. Read the stuff they wrote on the target. If two targets are within 20 feet of each other and they mark the wrong one they could be as much as half a mile off over distance as it increases the error the further you travel. It basically explained in detail in the military manuals listed above. Very precise navigation with nothing more than a compass.

Let me throw a few other things in here to assist you ( more along the lines of being safety related should you find yourself in a crisis situation)

Knowing land nav ( as referenced in the FM's I quoted) goes far beyond a compass and map ( having physical equipment)- you will learn how to accurately navigate WITHOUT instruments or tools of any kind.

There are the techniques of sunlight,wristwatch,stars and such. The SOCK method ( Sum Of Coordinates Known) which operators must know because often times, having a map/compass is a luxury we simply dont have.

Plus it also allows you to preplan the route and let others know the approximate area you will be operating in. ( greatly assists in a search/rescue effort)

It does 1 other thing. If you start your trek knowing where you started from- you will always know approximately where you are at along your route. ( very comforting feeling)

Yeah, a GPS is a kewl toy, it works reasonably well and is pretty darn accurate- those are givens. At the end of the day and (God forbid) you find yourself in a crisis situation with all your gear lost or inoperative- theres no substitute for knowledge and the ability to use that knowledge.

Trust your mind and knowledge- NEVER your equipment. I remember a flashback to the "Q"- "YOU are the weapon, the M-4 is only a tool" Use that analogy here too.

ETA- a mis statement on my part- TRUST your equipment WHEN you have it ( ensuring its calibrated and accurate when you start) bt if it fails or gets lost/damaged then trust your knowledge

This man speaketh the gospel. Follow the instructions to the letter BEFORE you go into the woods. ( you dont want to learn land nav on the run) A few key points.

1) you need a protractor ( get one or make one)

2) remember, COMPASS readings MUST be converted to a map thru a G/M angle ( a compass only sees magnetic north- maps use grid north- they are NOT the same

3) use the SMALLEST line possible and NEVER forget to account for line width in your measurements

4) make sure you FULLY understand ( and can use) intersection, resection,dead reckoning,SOCK and polar plotting

5) start your pace count on your FIRST STEP from your AO and NEVER lose track of it. ( take notes and make drawings)

Real men don't use protractors! LOL (just kidding).

RB and I have Garmin Rino 530 and 520s and bless the day we got them. We've had great satellite coverage everywhere we've been in the Sierra's (so far anyway). However, nothing takes the place of knowing how to use a compass and topographic map....learn it and it will never let you down. All USFS offices sell topo maps for a nominal fee as well as larger recreation maps showing the entire forest. A quick stop at the local office will also provide you with a lot of information, any required permits (fire, wilderness entry, etc.) and advice!