I dont mean to be a trouble maker but where did autum get her cryptozoology degree at? or is that claim on the OLN show a huge pile of BS? I personally think that she is the token blonde [edited] to sell the show but hey I may be wrong.

Ya Sean, you're wrong. Very wrong indeed.

Autumn Williams is the founder of Oregonbigfoot.com, and a very skilled researcher/investigator. She was out walking the wilds of Oregon, collecting info on Bigfoot, long before she was on OLN.

Take a look at Oregonbigfoot.com, and you'll see that she is alot more than just a "token blonde". The website contains a database, sound files, FAQ section, and alot more.

I used to be an affiliate researcher for Autumn Williams, and let me tell you, she is a damn good person.

Your comments were ignorant and rude, Sean. Autumn also happens to be a member of this forum.

Nice job, ranger.

Where do you get off judging Autumn by her looks Sean? If you had watched the show and paid attention, then you would have seen the true dedication that Autumn has for this search.

*EDIT*
about 5 times, that is.....
GR, maybe next time you should look before you leap...just a suggestion.

That was a really stupid post, GreenRogue.

I want to rant, but I'm gonna hold off on it. :|

Sean,

I too find it hard to believe that as someone who claims to be somewhat knowledgeable of the BF field of inquiry, you had no prior knowledge of Autumn and her web site. I was very impressed with her efforts in building her group and found their site to be one of the most professional I had ever come across. I have not seen the OLN series yet, but I suspect that any negative light shed upon her during the series is the fault of the producers and not reflective of her abilities or personality. I think an apology is in store.

"A closed mouth gathers no foot."

alls I was asking was where did she get her degree or did the OLN show just say that shes a cryptozoologist? I know there is a degree that goes along with that title and I dont care how many years youve spent out in the field it doesnt make you a cryptozoologist and I mean no offence to Autum but if you look at her on the show it looks alot like there selling her looks more than her knowledge. I guess what Im trying to say is that if she holds no degree from a university in cryptozoology, shouldnt the OLN show call her a world renown bigfoot investigator? Im sorry if I offended you guys it was not what was intended I just wrote it down and posted it with out really proof reading it first and Autum if I offended you I am sorry.

In the opening of the show, I remember them using the term "Professional Cryptozoologist." We don't need to get into the whole "professional" issue again, but that IS one thing that stuck with me and caused a small eye-roll. I see where you're coming from GR, and others here did address some of the things you're questioning early in the other thread.

My question is, is there really a degree available in Crypto? Doesn't make any sense to me...how are they going to teach enough material to get a specialized degree in the field, when the field deals with unproven creatures in the first place? I don't think there can be a degree in crypto, really. If I'm wrong and someone knows of a crypto degree program somewhere, please let me know...out of curiosity I'd love to see what it's all about.


Edited fer typoz

In the real world there doesn't appear to be a degree in cryptozoology offered by any mainstream college.

But you might find THIS interesting.

BAAAHHHAHAHAHA!!!

You got me, Sabre! lolololol........

Took me until the faculty page to get it...times like these I'm reminded how gullible I truly can be....
Good one!!

I am such a jackass I thought it was real too read the alumni page what a laugh

Don't feel so bad. They had me for a few seconds when I first read it.

But Franklin & Marshall is an actual college as you can see if you explore their site further.

At first I couldn't imagine why there would be this fake (yet elaborate) page regarding a degree in cryptozoology, but I didn't see the note which said:

This page is a demonstration of a template available in the F&M Web Style Guide.

Apparently the faux page was created to demonstrate the various web page style guidlines used by the college. Kudos to whoever came up with the crypto idea.

Add that one to the "Bumper Sticker" thread in the Member's Lounge! It's one of my favorites.

(Not that I pay any attention to it myself--it's wonderful advice for everyone else, though.)

GR: "Autumn" has an "n" on the end. (I trust you'll forgive the anal-ism, Fishy.)

Roger out of all of your posts that I've read I can't seem to recall you ever trying (intentionally or not) to eat your foot. Actually I think the "anal-ism" was finally necessary. Hopefully the larger problem will be recognized and addressed.

SABRE: Thanks. But searching through my posts for "Oops", I find five instances, so I've at least got a toe or two in there!

Say, has anyone shot himself in the foot while it was in his mouth? (EDIT: Nixon, maybe?)

Maybe what's needed for "the larger problem" is for Invision to add an "Oops" or "I repent" or "Let me rephrase that" button, with which the original poster could add a sorry-about-that footnote to his original post, in a unique color or typeface. I'll add it to my list of items to plague the developers with.

(It's probably not all beer & skittles for gals who are attractive. E.g., I've read that if Katie Couric hears the word "perky" once more she'll go nuclear.)

The Invision kibitzer's board is interesting--and frightening. Nearly all the posters are knowledgeable board administrators, and most suggestions are for administrator-oriented features that I can't fathom. But it's fun waltzing out there and popping off. I've already made a few suggestions that were close to foot-in-the-mouth items; they weren't needed, because they already exist. Fortunately, I had a good comeback: How come your Help files don't document this stuff? Really, lack of documantation is their weakest point--as it is with many good software products (e.g., XyWrite).

Bipto, you ought to browse their board and tell 'em what's what.

Cryptozoology is not a recognized science. In fact, I believe the term's only been around about 60-70 years or so. I recall reading it was coined by a fellow considered the father of the field. Can't remember his name but seems like he was either Belgian or French, and I think his name may have started with an "H."

Folks in the field are either professionals or academics in other areas like anthropology, or else just like many of the people in this forum, everyday folks who have varied interests and backgrounds but share a desire to learn the truth about what might be out there.

After reading this thread I visted their site and it really is top knotch, not only one of the better Bigfoot sites I've seen, but overall it's an excellent Web site design.

Damn, GR. Looks like you stepped on some toes. I guess this post might just do the same.

Back in high school, my band director came to a few of us and asked us if we'd be interested in playing for a private function. We were to be paid twenty bucks apiece for doing so. He told us that once you are paid for playing, you are henceforth and forever more a professional musician. That being the case, to this day yours truly is a professional musician.

At the beginning of the OLN show they refer to Autumn as a "professional cryptozoologist". They further state that she has been one for 13 to 15 years (and I still can't figure out why they can't nail that year down). So, does that mean that Autumn's been getting paid to be a cryptozoologist since she was about fifteen? I'll bet you all a dollar she hasn't.

The show is about hype. There has been no real substance so far. As far as Autumn the person is concerned, if you don't know her personally, then maybe you might want to sit on your hands and think about it before you decide to jump someone for being critical. But that's just my two cents.

And not to be too technical but I do believe that every member of this forum is a cryptozoologist whether you realize it or not. The title is open as there is no degree to be achieved from an accredited college or university. How the hell would you get a degree in studying "unknown animals" anyway???

[edit] And I'd also like to add that Matt Moneymaker is a very knowledgeable and informed investigator and I think it was pretty damned big of him to allow the editing on the Florida show to paint him as being one of Autumn's subordinates. Especially considering the fact that all those "thousands" of reports of Autumn's were pulled from the BFRO's database!

Fish,

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Are you suggesting GR should think before he speaks or that we should have sat on our hands before we "jumped" him for being critical? Surely you don't consider that an exercise in critical analysis. That's just plain ignorance.

There's being critical, and then there's just being a jerk. Sean may have a legitimate beef against Autumn's credentials, but the way he said it (specifically, before his post was edited) was nothing more than demeaning and rude. Makes it pretty hard for this armchair enthusiast to have a meaningful conversation...

That being said, I will pick up a bit from what Fish posted and say she's as much a cryptozoologist as anyone else around here. I think the show calls her a 'professional' cryptozoologist, and I'd have to say that's a stretch. Before she did ME she was a web developer of some sort. Her cryptozoological activities did not appear to be her profession.

I'm happy to have Autumn set me straight on this.

Huh. Actually I suppose I'm suggesting both those things.

GR could have made his post with more tact, for sure but I think many of the "jumpers" might need to find out about both sides of the coin before they go too far in nailing GR.

I'll agree that Autumn is a respected investigator who's been in this game for a long time and I'll give credit where credit is due on that but the folks at OLN have decided to paint her as the petulent Madonna of bigfoot research and that just ain't the way it is.

Well, we'll find out where everyone stands on the day the ratings for the show start going south and they want her to start doing her research in a bikini.

Is Autumn being complicit with the producers in regards to how they're portraying her or does she not have a say in the matter?

Maybe she disapproves of how she being "painted"

And so as not to create the impression of a double standard, if we "jumpers" should find out more before we nail GR, surely the onus was on him to do the same before he criticized (negative connotation) Autumn. Had he done so, we probably wouldn't be discussing this.

As an aside Bipto's quote:Bipto you old dog you

Maybe so. But I don't believe she's turning down her paychecks because of it.



Dunno.



True dat. And considering the fact that I've probably got too much involved here personally to remain objective, this will be the last I've got to say on this post. Probably should have just let GR get roasted and said to hell with it anyway.

O.K. Fish, I'm with ya'.

The horse is dead- enough said.

Once again , I said I was not trying to insult autumn the point I was trying to make was that the show has little substance to it and if they wanted to they could surely show some more of her intelligence when it comes to this field. but it looks to me like the show is trying to portray her as this world renown cryptozoologist but at the same time have her interview witnesses in a low cut tank top. if the show was really interested in portraying this subject in a more serious light, isnt there another person out there someone like Matt Moneymaker who is alot more qualified to lead a search such as they are advertising? and maybe they chose her because she is the best looking BF investigator they could find and not nessesarily the most qualified. I dont know Autumn personally Ive talked to her once at the symposium and I am sure shes a nice person and also very intelligent but I think the show are the ones who are putting that image out, and there sure as hell could be alot more substance to it and it could also look alot more professional and serious. that said I will once again apologize to all of you whom I have offended, those of you who know me know I am a cool guy not one to stir up a crap storm like this. so bipto I am sorry for starting all this man.

I'm not getting into any arguments here, but as far as I am concerned 'Professional' simply means that you are getting paid for it, so if Autumn is getting paid to study cryptozoology, then by definition, she is a 'Professional Cryptozoologist' - it doesn't make her any better or worse than anyone else.

Me ? I study Cryptozoology for the love of it - I wouldn't take money from anyone.


Apart from anything else, remember that at the end of the day, it's only Television !

is autumn the woman who was on the show bigfootville? i only caught the last 30 minutes of that show....

what is autmuns website? i'd love to check it out

gael

found it! never mind., should have searched before i asked

gael

Huh?

Darn!

There goes my Christmas card stuffed with cash idea...

Maybe Paul would like a nice plastic Bigfoot keychain for Boxing Day instead...

Yeah, but you're not just anyone RB !

GR, why didn't you just say it like that from the get-go

I think we all knew what you were trying to say, it was just the way you went about it.

Anyway, as was said earlier, this issue is dead so don't sweat it.

Well I take it Sean's post has had everything bad edited out of it, because I don't see anything wrong with what's posted there now and I agree with it.

Sex sells better than bigfoot. That's all I'll say.

Autumn just put up her new website within the last year or so and showed up out of the blue. Now we are to believe she has been doing this for 13 to 15 years professionally? Ok.

And frankly, it is a mute point if she is a professional or has been doing it for 15 years, because she's not coming across as such on the show. It’s either the script or the editing, but something is terribly wrong. As a professional anthropologist who has been doing this for 15 years, reputation and appearances are EVERYTHING. I am disappointed that 1) bigfoot research is being presented as a joke; 2) a woman is being portrayed as nothing more than a sex object; and 3) those of us women doing serious research are going to be compared to that. IMHO, this show is not helping the cause at all. Outside of the neat toys, Matt, and Fishbone....it gave me a headache.

I totally agree with hairy man. and as a person who has worked with hairy man in the field, the woman knows what she is doing and I have nothing but the utmost respect for her. I have come as close as I ever have been to a Sasquatch because of what she knows and how serious she is about the field work she does. (Thank you again, Hairy Man) So is it asking to much for OLN to put out a more serious product? something that doesnt take away from the credibility of people who do alot of hard work many of whom are not getting paid for it but do it for the love of it . I say no. we dont need to have a pretty face selling a product (ie. the search for Sasqutch.) that sells itself so for one hope both Autumn and OLN can make a show of substance that educates people and entertains them at the same time.

I think what we're dealing with here are totally different objectives.

OLN wants to sell advertising by drawing a large number of viewers to their entertainment programing. I have to imagine that their demographic would react positively to the way they've structured the show (i.e., put Autumn up front and show Matt driving the Bounder).

We, on the other hand, want the field of sasquatch research to be presented in a good light. OLN couldn't give a red tamale about the field of sasquatch reseach. Would they like their show to produce attention-getting evidence about the big guy? Oh sure. Does it need to to succeed? Nope.

We seem to be debating whether or not this show reflects badly on Autumn since she's the front for it. My question is how does it reflect on the BFRO? To what extent could this show be produced without the help of BFRO? Are either Autumn or the BFRO selling themselves out just for the fame/money that goes along with a successful TV show? Are we judging Autumn more harshly than Matt Moneymaker, and if so, why?


FYI, I'm moving this out to the Media forum...

Who is Autumn Williams????? Never heard of her. Is that bad? Then again I dont watch very many specials on BF. I think my TV is stuck on the History chanel. (Lee Ermey is too cool.)

I'll agree with you on that one. Grover Krantz sold "the product" for years, and he looked as if he had taken a nosedive off the Ugly Tree, and hit every branch on the way down.



But as far as this whole debate goes, I'm just defending Autumn Williams as a person and a friend. To tell the truth, I haven't even watched Mysterious Encounters yet. GreenRogue was being blunt in what he said, and I can understand that. It's just the bluntness that caught me off guard, and well, kinda pissed me off. But I don't hold grudges (most of the time), GR I understand the point you were trying to convey.

Like I said before. The media rarely helps your cause, they have their own ideas on how things should look, this must/may be the same with 'Mysterious Encounters'.


BTW Liebling, Autumn was not the woman on Bigfootville. The woman on Bigfootville posts on this forum as Arkansan.

As bipto says, we'd like BF shows to be pieces of investigative journalism; the OLN producers are just applying their standard outdoor-show-template: A-Hunting We Will Go. But this isn't all bad. As I argued in my previous post on this thread, I think the net effect of this show will be positive, although not as positive as we would like. E.g., simply by not sniggering at the subject, OLN has made it more likely for members of its audience to file reports, and even come forward publicly. Being outdoorsmen, they are the most likely BF witnesses. And mere neutral coverage has the effect of "mainstreaming" the topic, making it more "thinkable" to the majority. I'm sure the scoftics will be unhappy with this series for those reasons. Their happiness/unhappiness is a litmus test we can apply in making a judgment as to whether some particular piece of coverage is good or bad for Bigfootery.

(By that standard, I also think appearances by Bigfoot notables on the Art Bell show have usually had a positive effect, such as the recent Chilcutt appearance, and earlier interviews with Ray Crowe and a pair of Oklahoma policemen who had two close (20-foot), clear encounters with a big Bigfoot. I'm sure scoftics gnashed their teeth over items like those, and agonized that Bell's 10 million listeners took that stuff seriously.)

There's a well-known saying about "bad publicity" in show biz: Just spell my name right. I wouldn't go that far, but I wouldn't have to. The OLN series is only "lightweight" publicity.

As far as making an impression on serious people goes, that can be done for one-tenth the cost of a TV documentary, with a PIXE hair-analysis project.

If we're unhappy with media coverage, what I suggest is that BF researchers and organizations who have interviewed witnesses should videotape them, as I suggested in a 1-page article in the August Bigfoot Co-Op, "Let’s Videotape Testimony & Create Documentaries." If more taped witness testimony were available for TV producers to license, their task of putting together a show would be easier, and their shows would have more credibility. (Plus the creators of such tapes would reap a windfall come B-Day, when there'd be a demand for 24/7 Bigfoot TV-coverage, and owners of any BF videotapes would be provided with a sellers' market.)

It probably did open up a new audience of interest. But most folks like that tend to keep to themselves and would leave their sighting as a personal thing. But there may be a bumpkin or two who saw the show and think if they report one, some purty girlie will come and visit them and ask questions. Yeeehawwww

Ha and won't they be shocked when Fishy-boy shows up!

Hey maybe if he wore a really tight tank top and shorts?? Naw, then he'd probably get shot at!

Kathy H

Ew.

...Wow you did it red... I'm speechless...

My thoughts exactly......

That would probably get him shot. Well unless he went to Delonega, Ga. Then it would be like---

"you gots a purty mouth boy" "squeal, squeal, boy, yeeehawww"

I would hope for the bullet in that case.

Tube top maybe. Tank top never.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just one last point, then I'm outta here.

"World Renowned Cryptozoologist" ?

With the exception of myself and my brother, I would be very suprised if anyone outside North America (and a few folks in Canada) have ever heard of Autumn Williams.

I know the USA is a very big place, but it ain't the whole world you know !