Just started reading Dr. Bindernagel's book. In it he discusses the possibility of Bigfoot swimming...

(page 44-45)

Bindernagel doesn't mention the manner in which they swim.

Is it a dog-paddle, or does the Sasquatch use a crawl-stroke? Or does it swim under water?

Any thoughts?

Hey Tug, yeah, its been described as underwater with a frog kick, powerful, and effective. Apes Among us reference I believe.
I am sure there are numerous reports that are published about it. It would be good to round them up, lay them out and make em available for reference. Good one.

Can You imagine being out in a bay, casually fishing and taking in the sounds of the surf and sun, when Ya happen to look over and see a primate swimming froggy style underneath Your boat?...

I mean, let's think about this for a moment...If it had been an unknown sea creature, hell even a sea serpent for that matter, would You feel half as crazy as having to admit You just watched a Bigfoot swim underneath Your boat?...

Mmm...Yeah, I'd be keeping that one to myself till the day of my demise...

Randy, Very good point on that one but IF the water was crystal
and IF the ambient light was reasonable and IF you had a camera....
nahhhh

Makes me think of the end of Friday the 13th....in the boat, laalaalaa, deedeedee, BAM!

I remember reading a report a long time ago about Sasquatch swimming.

Some woman said her ankle was grabbed by a Sasquatch when she was swimming in a mountain lake, the story was in a book, but I can't remember which book that was.

Sounds like the description from the "Creature from the Black Lagoon."

No, it was an actual book.

The only only title that comes to mind is the book "Bigfoot: Monster, Myth, or Reality", but don't call me on it.

I think I read it in junior highschool or maybe just after that.

You're bang on with that one SR, it is indeed in Sasquatch: Apes Among Us.

Page 431, cites:



Page 432:



There are many other references to sasquatch being seen in and around water in Green's book, but those two were fairly descriptive of them actually swimming.


RayG

There is also an illustration of one climbing into a boat in Raincoast Sasquatch by Rob Alley. Swimming is referenced on pg. 51, 58, 60, 62-64, 66, 163.
Regarding the Apes Among us reference, in this Alley reference, Green comments he is not sure about the accuracy of that report. However, there are others that describe underwater swimming and a creature that sits in the water, stares, looks like a log with eyes and constantly stares. Upon approach it sinks down and disappears. Here is another interesting comment : " Apes lack the range of shoulderjoint mobility to use the arms in a human swimming or overhand throwing motion. "
Its just a theory, but maybe it does suggest a more apelike origin. Perhaps if we tally a load of swimming reports through the literature and the possible legit references continue to suggest that.... well who knows. I am going to sum up the rest of the references to this to see if there is any more pattern to it. Thanks J.

P. 66 Alley Raincoast Sasquatch :

A native Ketchikan woman, in a 99 interview referred to as Miss M,
described an encounter from l951. It reads " One man and a few fellows chased it down into the lake earlier that year, a big black one,
but it just dove into the shallow water and swam away, they could see it kicking its legs like a frog. 'It could swim real fast, it never used its arms,' the men said. Everybody knew about it. (It and another reddish brown one were scratching on a metal roof before they were scared off. or so says the reference ).

I posted on BFF about a swimming sasquatch in Nevada ..........Jarbidge.......think i mis-spelled it as Jarbigge.........


the post was maybe about a year ago......couldn´t find.....can´t remember the guys name.....he and his cousin (Shandra...Chandra????) watched one swimming in the river after they had been throwing rocks.......

Jarbigge

Guess should have read Bindernagel's book more closely... found the following report on page 45.



But again, I want to know, do they use more than one type of stroke?

I seem to recall an Ohio report of one doing a breast stroke , then walking out of the river (Ohio) and disappearing into the trees.

It may have used its arms in a breaststoke fashion, but i think they see alot of frogs, and thats why they do the frog kick. Kinda hard to swim like a fish when ya got legs, not fins. (Monkey see, monkey do).

That report is the same one found in Green's book. It supposedly happened in 1960 and Green tried to trace it back to the person who heard it from a witness, but he (Green) never received any reply to his letters.

Although the original letter contains quite a bit of detail, and was written by Nick Carter of Bellevue, Washington, it seems to be one of those -- I heard from a friend, of a friend -- types that is open to speculation. The letter starts out,



It would have been very interesting to interview some of the 30 or so men that witnessed the squatch swimming away.

Green even admits, "There is, of course, no proof that this story is true..."

RayG

Yes, I remember there are several references to sasquatches swimming in Rob Alley's Raincoast Sasquatch. Streamrunner has listed them in his message above. With so many islands and channels, it would be very advantageous to be able to swim.

Raincoast Sasquatch page 51:

Its style of swimming is commonly noted as submerged, not the on-the-surface style one might expect to hear for any ape or other primate, or the crawl style if one were to think of a human. (This ability to swim powerfully underwater is also noted in old Haida and Tlingit stories.) In these and following reports of sasquatches in water, there is no mention of the use of arms in swimming. Several anthropologists examining purported sasquatch tracks in mud have pointed out some indication of partial webbing between the toes, and if that is the case, then the sasquatch already has "swim fins." As such, no arm motion would be required for strong propulsion on or under the water. This may be significant, as there are reports of sasquatches "popping up" near boats or islands considerably farther offshore.

(I'm unfamiliar with copyright laws, etc, and so if I am not supposed to quote a paragraph verbatim from a published book, someone please let me know and I won't do it again. Thanks!

If I come across any other reference that suggests something other than whats been covered, I will slap it on here.

Swimming underwater would make sense from the aspect of concealment.

If one is looking across the water and sees nothing more than a "deadhead" occasionally surfacing, no more attention would be given the surface of the water.

Maybe this is why Bigfoot isn't seen swimming across the Columbia River?

Well do it gently will you please? My monitor is balanced on a phone book over here...

Susan... Good point regarding the natural swim fins...

I think even if Sas doesn't have webbed toes, they still have some pretty awesome aquatic propulsion devices at the end of each leg...

What with the huge dimensions of their feet to begin with...

And then add the mid-tarsal break to enable more foot flexibility, thus creating a more efficient "flipper"...

And if by some crazy chance the extra thick fat pad on the soles of their feet offer some additional measure of buoyancy... reducing effort and fatigue...

And then stir in the factor of the additional lung capacity...

Their apparent ability to see in very low-light situations...

And their obvious intelligence...

I think it's not only plausible they can and do possess the ability to swim great distances... either under water or on the top of water...

But that it also is entirely possible they may not give a second thought to entering the water and attempt to swim to anything they can actually see...

And, they may have learned from beavers how to stay warm, dry and completely hidden from others...

I may look at large downfalls at the edges of lakes a bit differently from now on...

Wow, RB! You really thought that one through! All good points!

But that it also is entirely possible they may not give a second thought to entering the water - RB

I like that part.

Damn, RB. That's good, really good. That had never even crossed my mind before.

All you need now is a small fiber-optic camera to slide though the nest and see whats inside.

They had to get to Australia somehow, apes didn't evolve there, you either swam by island hopping or built a boat.

Thats a long way island hopping.

Yeah, but over thousands of years? Maybe...

Maybe.

I wasn't downing Chronic's post, I was just curious.

If the yowie exists then it did in fact have to get there somehow.
I don't think swimming covers it though. I've been thru the
Torres straits, that's a LOT of water to cover, and tropical too (sharks).
Most islands that I saw were a few coconut trees and some shrubs
on old patch reefs. I have pictures and I'll post if someone wants
to see them. Secondly, one brave anthropoid taking the risk and
swimming won't account for a breeding population. Sorry Chronic,
have to find another mechanism. I have heard that there was some
more connectivity between Aus and the Asian continent during some
of the ice ages. Still don't think swimming will get it though. I'll poke
around on the land bridge possibility...

I agree, island hopping would require long swims in very deep water.
But building/using a raft would take some serious forethought.

Very long swim...

Approximately 80 miles is the nearest Aus has been to Asia since
it originally broke away. It was attached to New Guinea for a while
(Torres strait went dry). Still too far to swim. Keep plugging, I'm trying
to think of a method as well. Intriguing problem...

BTW, building a "boat" requires more than thought. It implies use of
tools except for the most rudimentary log raft.

Maybe they happened on a log or two and drifted with the current there? Is that a possibility?

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/images/a...suggest_hom.htm


hmmmmm.

Susan, think breeding population, probably dozens, not very
likely to have all been out to sea at the same time (to arrive
on the same island). Possible, but not likely...

I know where you want to go with this Chronic. Yowie isn't
Erectus. Sure you've shown tools were found on an Asian
island, but not Aus. Secondly, if Erectus did make those tools AND
used them to make a raft AND traveled via the raft to Aus, where
are his tools now? If yowie = Erectus, he should still be using tools
and I note a lack of evidence of that (based on yowie hunters evidence).

Keep plugging

Yep, you'll stump me w/ that one every time.


Maybe, if we were brawling (and winning) w/ HE, he had to give up his culture to hide/survive.

Hmmm, let's see...

gave up clothing, tools, fire, speech (according to your article) and
any semblence of "humanity" and retreated a few million evolutionary
years (conservatively).

Occam's razor comes to mind.

Oh good, I could use a shave...

I agree, although if you've ever read about feral children, the idea of losing culture isn't so farfetched. They have no use for language (beyond grunting) and zero interest in human company. Heck, if they spend enough time on all fours growing up, their tendons will never allow them to stand straight up.

That's a huge regression in just 1 generation.

If you have to avoid to survive, fire/tools quickly lose their importance, and social gatherings are thrown out the window, any culture would be inhibiting your species chance of surviving.

Ok, here are the problems I have with this line of reasoning...

First, feral children had no choice, this occurs at fairly young ages
and the child had none of the skills that we discussed. They also
have no means of maintaining the social contacts of family or peers
whether they want to or not. Simple immediate survival and LUCK.
Not the same as a planned retrograde further into the stone age...

I can only imagine the line of thought that gets you to where Erectus readily gives
up any of the tools or advantages (like fire and stone implements) that may
have allowed him to stand his ground against Sapiens. Gee, let me drop my
sharp rocks and burning stick and run into the woods to sleep amongst
animals and eat grubs and grass. You think all the Erectus in Asia went along
with this idea? Not buying it...

Speaking of which, just whom are you supposing ran Erectus off the Asian
continent? Heidelbergensis? with whom Erectus shares features? I don't
think you have a sudden jump in human evo here to cover this.

I haven't seen anything on Erectus being hunted by Sapiens anyway (doesn't
me much, just that I haven't come across it). I have seen and would tend to
favor Erectus being outcompeted for resources. That would lead to wholesale
migration, looking for greener pastures so to speak. I can see that pushing
him to undertake a very dangerous voyage toward distant shores. But that
brings us back to the missing tools and other technology of the time. From
evolving man to savage beast in the blink of a geologic eye. Not buying this
either...

Keep plugging

Thanks for the reply, Howling, you brought up some good points to ponder.

I'm on the fence with the issue of what he is, animal or quasi-human.
I just have a hard time with some of your reasoning. That you're
willing to discuss it makes me think that much harder about the topic.
I'm still on the fence though

From what I could find,the last land bridge between Australia and any continent was 33 million years ago when it was connected to Antartica.....But with the ice age,is it possible that as with the bering land bridge that there was a similar bridge connecting the phillipine chain or some of the other surrounding islands to it ? From what I've read sea levels at that time were much lower than they are now. Theres also the idea of rapid tectonic shift (such as supposedly sunk atlantis) that could have caused some of the continents to change their location much more rapidly that the normal tick of the geological clock. Of course there aslo the possiblity that the antiquity of man goes back farther than any of us have guessed...that wouldnt be unprecedented as most discoveries are bits and pieces of fossilized evidence......Or that man/apes may have originated elsewhere,besides Africa.....Not that I believe any of it just playing devils advocate for a minute.

Been wanting to post something but can't remember where I read it, but I'm going to throw it out here anyway. ( Sounds off the wall, but>) Read awhile back about undersea volcanic fissure tubes.( I think that is what they were referred to as) I cannot honestly remember if this was based on scientific findings or not. I recall it being referenced as to the possibility of animals getting from one land mass to another. To a point, it does make some sense, undersea volcanoes do form land masses. But the distance would have to be substantial. ( I home school and pretty sure I pulled it up for my sons report on volcanoes)

Tubes are formed as a lava flow skims over on top but continues
to flow underneath. As the flow slows and cools it may contract
leaving a void underneath the now hardened skin of rock overhead.
These flows may further be eroded by rain water over years. The
thing to remember is that they will only follow a down slope, in other
words you'd get to the bottom of the sea between two islands and
get no further.

I walked in some of these on Hawaii. Very interesting, almost like a
subway tunnel in spots...

An island in the Torres Strait, about a hundred yds long...

I couldn’t view the image Howling… but I’ll bet it was a good one!

I’m not certain we can completely exclude the possibility they actually constructed some sort of crude raft…

If they had observed humans constructing some type of log barge or other rudimentary watercraft, I think it’s possible Bigfoot-type creatures could have attempted to imitate their behavior…

If all the Bigfoot wanted to do was to float around in some bay or river, it isn’t entirely impossible, IMHO, that a raft could be blown out to sea by strong winds… maybe depositing the unfortunate rafters onto the shores of some distant island…

So, now what do they do? If I were them… I might be tempted to load lots of food on the raft and set out again, in an attempt to get home…

Well, with no sail and no compass and absolutely no seamanship skills what-so-ever, there’s no telling where a raft like that might finally touch some large hunk of land…

Large enough so the BF think maybe they’re back home…

Not enough BF on one raft for a viable breeding population you say? No, not unless it was a damn big raft…

Or unless some other group of BF watched the first group sail into the sunset just like they knew what they were doing… and they come up with the bright idea to give this giant fallen tree raft thingie a shot… looks like fun…

So then as the second group sets off, a third groups sits on a hillside overlooking the bay, and the female Bigfoot turns to the big old male and says, “How come you never take me anywhere?”

Need I say more?

"Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip"






Redwolf

Australia used to be linked to, at least, lower Indonesia for a while when the sea level was suitably low . . . This can still be seen in some of the wildlife of Australia and Irian Jaya-- reptiles spring to mind . . .


~Ice, bringing you random geological trivia.

You say Irian Jaya, I say New Guinea...

What's in a name...

hehe . . . Maybe researching and saving to score an Irian Jaya carpet python has corrupted my mental directory of place-names.


~Ice

Nope, actually we are both correct. Irian Jay is the western
half of the island (belongs to Indonesia) and Papua-New Guinea
is the Eastern half. I was just having a lil fun...