I know that many of you have been discussing this on various threads, and Bipto's latest podcast had a great interview with someone who claims to have seen it, and I recently saw a digital animated 'recreation' of it, based on someone's recollection of it.

If all this is true, it could be better than the PGF.

Where is it? Could it have been destroyed? If it still exits, who ever has it could potentially make a LOT of money with it, so what's the deal? Why hide it?

The only thing that seems to make sense is that it's just another hoax, designed to get publicity for the casino.

According to Stacy in Michigan's poll, six people here claim to have seen superior footage.

Is it possible that they have seen this?

I guess they're not saying.

Interesting.

There's a thread about this on here, somewhere. I was informed on that thread that the original video had been "destroyed" and so the need for the re-creation.

Yes, I think I heard or read that it had been destroyed too, but I have a hard time believing that.

That sucks.

I hadn't heard it was destroyed, but I suppose that's possible. It seems the last I heard was it was in the hands of the Tribal Elders of the Native American's that owned the land on which the casino is located. If that were the case I can understand why it may have been destroyed. Although it may have been a great boost to our search for bigfoot, I fully understand their reasoning behind doing so if that is the case.

Moregon,

I think I know what you mean, but please tell us why you think the Elders might have done such a thing.

Hello. I have also heard of a similar BF creature in the Caddo County, OK area, which isn't too far from the casino video area. As some of you know, Oklahoma is home to some 37 tribes. Most of the Native tribes believe in this creature, but have learned to keep beliefs just as secretive as the BF creature.

The sighting around Red Rock State Park that I heard of is of a creature which is closer to 6 feet tall and it shares almost all the same characteristics, except in height.

hey redfoot wow very informative above new reply about the oklahoma sasquatch. welcome to the bigfootforums. please keep in touch ok. thanks bill

Pretty much what redfoot just said, regarding them being part of their belief structure.

Traditions are a hard thing to break and probably some of the most protected and revered parts of anyone's life. What have "WE", meaning non-Native Americans done YET to show we can be totally trusted? Should they believe us if we said something to the effect of, "We won't come onto your land to look for it, or nobody will shoot it, or capture it, or harass it." Why SHOULD they believe us? Wouldn't it be simpler just to hide the evidence and not have to worry about us because we already know the majority of people aren't going to believe the claim anyway, and especially the government and major scientific bodies. As far as destroying it, that's always an absolute protection it'll never leak out, where if a copy is around and exists someone may be persuaded with enough money or by other means.

Just looking at history alone would be enough to pretty much suggest what "WE" would do. "WE" pretty much killed off their buffalo which was another part of their belief system, "WE" took their land, "WE" herded them onto small parcels of land compared to what they use to have and told them they HAD to live there. "WE" cut down their forests, polluted their land, spoiled their water, dirtied their air and the list goes on. I don't know about you but if I had a secret that if it were released I may see the end of yet another important traditional belief... I certainly wouldn't tell "US" or give "US" any information that may lead to a major expedition. It's not as if by not telling "US" will mean the destruction of our government or any major impact on "OUR" lives, so there's nothing wrong with them taking that stand.

By they way I'm really NOT a GREENIE although parts of this post may sound that way.

I have a bit of a difficult time believing that it would have been destroyed..........

Cultural differences or no, it just seems to me that if they had a video it would have been released.

Actually - this whole business reminds me of a type of humour I witnessed numerous times with the Cree.
Somebody would ask them a question in a meeting or news conference - and because it was so far out in left field - they would give a reply that was purposely enigmatic. Then they would refuse to answer follow-up questions.
It used to drive the reporters and/or opposing lawyers NUTS! The Cree leaders would then go back to the hotel and laugh about how gullible the people were.
This type of thing could go on indefinitely. Lots of laughs and planning sessions on how to get the play going again.
It was their way of proving that they were not stupid savages out of some John Wayne movie - nor were they weak and disadvantaged people. Their way was always indirect because outright confrontation was very bad in their society. So - without having a direct confrontation with anybody - they were in total control of the situation. Very subtle - and very effective.
If you can manipulate someone's actions - you are certainly not their inferior!

I think these guys at the casino realize that keeping enigmatic about the whole thing is the most fun way to go. That way - they can sit back and laugh at us fools who are trying to find a black cat in the dark that isn't there.
Plus - there is just no way to prove them right or wrong no matter what they say. Totally a win/win situation for them!

You will have to remember that we, meaning Native Peoples, believe in a great many things which the anglo populace believes is hogwash.

Examples oe what we also believe in are the Little People, that animals can act as omens, be spirit guides and other legendary creatures such as Deer Woman. Oklahoma is home to tribes from all over America such as, Delaware, Seminole and the Great Lakes.

BTW, I am also native american. My tribe is from the north (yellowstone area) and we have a legend on BF which predates the european presence in the Americas. The Caddo County creature story I heard comes from Native Peoples.

And to further muddy the waters, do you remember in the Bigfootville documentary which aired last week on the Travel Channel? Well, in the last part of the show, they were interviewing two Indians of the Seminole tribe from the Ada area. And the one man said they (the Seminole) believe there are two kinds of BF, one is big and tall and it is believed was sent to the People to "teach" them things and has the power to make one forget. The BF also has the power to disappear. Which they feel is why when anglo's come across a BF crossing the road and run to investigate it, the creature "simply disappears".

Anyway, I have been told the entire episode is on YOU TUBE. Lastly, I am personally glad the casino tape "disappeared". Most folks only see dollar signs or feel that the entire incident was made up due to dollar signs in the eyes of the tribal peoples. That, my friends, is hogwash IMO.

I'm now thinking it's going to take an insider, one of the tribe members, to bring all this to light, and that 'ain't gonna happen'.

I have a bit of a difficult time believing that it would have been destroyed..........

I also hope that it was not destroyed.

Cultural differences or no, it just seems to me that if they had a video it would have been released.

Native Americans do not use a white man's logic, which leads to your confusion

you have to remember also that many tribes especially the sioux believed the "big hairy man" or rugaru came about to warn of bad times to come or something similar.

I explained this a looooong time ago on George Mcadams Cybersquatch forum. While I dont lay claim to putting the term rugaru out there I was not aware of it being used online anywhere else. I came across it while researching and talking to an old indian man and then followed up by searching until I found reference to the rugaru in the book In THe Spirit of Crazy Horse by Peter Matheissen. Its about the Leonard Peltier and AIM movements and the battle with FBI etc at Wounded Knee in the 70s

It was said that several of the old men on the res was speaking of the rugaru and how it signified hard times and evil etc etc

This term was a variation of the french word Rougaro. Of course that is logical considering the intermarriage of french trappers into sioux tribes

and here is where bfro posted a very similar thing to what i posted on the forum

http://www.bfro.net/legends/

If you could go back youd see that I posted almost identical info on cybersquatch when it was just starting to garner a good member base

bigdave the first thing that struck me when you said rugaru, was how much that sounds like Loup-garou (Loo garoo), especially when you mentioned the French trappers marrying into the Sioux Nation. According to Wikipedia Rugaru is a variation of the term Loup-garou. Loup-garou is French for Werewolf.

Which tribal casino wast it? Was it the Cheyenne/Arapaho casino? Those tribes are from the northern plains. And most tribal people honor the request of the tribal elders.

I have heard of footprints near Calvin, OK, but they never get reported. This is an interesting forum. Keep up the good works!

You make a lot of generalizations about us Natives Peoples! Beliefs varied from tribe to tribe - and now - it varies from individual to individual .
A lot of the people that I know don't believe any of the old stories - nor do they follow the old ways. Many elders are teaching the younger ones some of the old ways - but all the old ways cannot be followed in todays times.
A lot of the NA people I know very well give only lip service to the old tales and old ways for political reasons.
There are certainly a few who truly follow the old ways - but in a harsh climate like Canada - that can be a recipe for disaster.
Generalizations about any group - whether it be NA Indians or your local Rotarians - are dangerous as they try and put all individuals and their behaviours and beliefs into one little box and that is just not possible.

Which casino was it again? I think that a local researcher just needs to go to that casino and ask some questions. American Indians are just plain folks IMHO and I live in Oklahoma.



I just did a internet search and I'm more familiar with that area than I thought. I've driven by that casino while I was on the way to OKARCHE to visit a locally renowned bar known as Eischen's that's famous for it's fried chicken. http://oklahomacity.citysearch.com/profile...chen_s_bar.html This may be a good excuse for a road trip in the future.

"Apparently, one of the security guards made copies before it was erased."

Just a rumor, but from a reliable source.

I don't make any generalizations. Sorry you read it that way. Its common sense that tribal and individual beliefs vary. I am sorry you know so many individuals who "only give lip service", but then that is your perception and maybe you expect a traditional person to live like its the year 1491, which isn't possible. Being traditional means learning the traditional values of respect. Respect of self, mother nature, and others, and keeping cultural traditions alive.

Thanks for sharing. I will try and keep the "little boxes" devoid of generalizations.

Respect of self - yep - that's true.
Respect of Mother Nature? Yes and No. The beliefs were pantheistic - but many NA tribes also exploited animals for profit (trade of fur pelts and skins) and killed far more than they could use in some very cruel ways (mass killings by fire and stampeding off cliffs).
Respect for others? Some tribes maybe yes. Other tribes definitely and most assuradely NO!
Keeping cultural traditions alive? Fortunately, the Chipeywan did not keep their traditional treatment of the women of their tribe alive!!! There are many more examples of "traditional values" being outside the bounds of what is considered moral and just behaviour in today's western society.

I think it is very important if one is going to try and discern people's motivations that they look at the reality of the cultural mores rather than at the romantic notions that may have seeped in. Eighteenth century Sentimentalism and Archie Delaney's chicanery (Grey Owl) are just a couple of the more obvious examples of the distortion of the truth regarding NA Indians. IMHO.
Issues of trust? I agree that this may be the strongest motivating factor for not sharing info with people outside of their tribe.
But we cannot discount any other motivations that are common to any other person - no matter what their race.

I grew up literally on a Rez......... I understand the logic of the tribe I'm familiar with.......... thus I don't believe I'm confused in the slightest....... if you had a video showing BF around your casino, you'd have to realize it would bring folks in in droves!! Of course if you don't have a video and you put out a rumor that you had one and destroyed it, you'll get at least a portion of that drove......... actually, not bad marketing.

Folks like to lump all NA into a group as far as to their way of thinking and thus their 'logic'. Sorry, that doesn't work for any population. And for that matter most NA's are actually more european than NA......... so most (actually all) have a mixed cultural influence. Personally, I tire of all the romantics that come up about NA culture...... most of what I've seen isn't romantic at all......... folks is folks

It only takes one man who doesn't understand the significance of that video to delete it. Not a Tribe or a Council, just one guy who doesn't get it, or doesn't want to get it, and *poof*, it's gone. This doesn't give us enough to draw any conclusions about any group.

Apparently "Outdoor Life" did a recreation of the Casino Bigfoot Video and it's on YouTube HERE

At the end of the video it specifically says, "The TRIBE claims to have destroyed it." So that sounds to me like it wasn't one individual's decision but based at least on the consensus of the elders.

The probable existence of the tape is a separate issue from the veracity of the reconstruction or any of the narrator's comments. One will get you ten that the tribe was not contacted in any way during the course of the production of that program.

Another thing - the ruling part of the tribe may not represent the will of the people.
Like in all levels of all politics around the world - the people are not consulted on every issue - nor is their majority will always respected. IMHO. (that is meant as a totally neutral statement not meant to single out any nation, political party or system)

I agree that folks are folks.I've got relatives with CDIB cards,I've had girlfriends with CDIB cards and some of my best buddies have had CDIB cards.A lot of the folks I know with CDIB cards also prefer to be known as American Indian since anyone born in the USA,Mexico,Central or South America is actually a native american.

The press release can say whatever it wants, it only takes one man to do it. With or without the backing of the Tribe. As rockinkt pointed out, it might not have been a unanimous decision.