Many reports state that the subject 'felt like I was being watched' before seeing, hearing or smelling a BF, or finding tracks, fresh evidence etc. It occurred to me that I could do an experiment about this as I don't think anyone else has.

Last weekend myself and three others went for a walk in the countryside. Throughout the afternoon we performed a simple experiment - one of us in turn would either be watched, unseen by one or more of the others, or not at all.

We tossed a coin to determine whether they subject would be watched or not. In 100 attempts the subjects felt watched 64% of the time overall. In wooded areas this rose to feeling watched 76%. In fact they were watched a total of 47%.

However there was no correlation between whether the subjects felt they were being watched when they were. In fact they got it right a tiny bit more than half the time simply because they felt watched more than half the time so they didn't know when they were being spied on.

It's far too small and inaccurate an experiment to be meaningful, and it's possibly fatally skewed because those taking part knew it was being conducted. But it made me think, so I reckon it was worth doing. Here's what I pondered:

1. Do people REALLY have a sense when others, including animals, actually are watching them?
The subjects, despite being in a smallish wood in cosy south-west England in daylight, said it felt quieter and spookier knowing they might be being watched. They said they saw things they thought were watchers but were logs, shadows etc.

2. Is feeling you're being watched simply another way of describing being alert/nervous? If so, do those who have seen bigfoot or believe they might see him feel like this more than others?

3. Do people who do believe they've encountered BF later erroneously ascribe an ominous watched feeling to the whole encounter simply because they're spooked?

4. Do any other animals like bear, deer, cougars watch humans in the forests? If so do people ever feel watched by them?

Personally, I currently believe that the feeling of being watched is based solely on peripheral vision, hearing and imagination. Our subjects, like some who encounter BF, talked of birds/the forest being quiet. I think if you see something scary, or think something is looking at you, you automatically tune out everything extraneous - hence the quiet.

I'd love to know what others think.

There are some other threads on this and your countrymen Rupert Sheldrake is the father of this subject as an academic pursuit. He's written a number of books and published some fairly controversial papers on the subject and experimental studies he's conducted. I'm totally fascinated by it, partly because of some of the work done on companion animals, but am embarassingly poorly read on it too. There really seems to be something to it in my book, at least for some people/animals, which has really amazing ramifications for possible scientific explanations.

Open minded (in a way that scares me sometimes)
Apeman

Thanks, Apeman. I did try to find out whether someone has done proper research, but didn't think to use Rupert Sheldrake's word "staring".

His online test results indicate that people ARE right about being looked at secretly. The test is here.

http://www.sheldrake.org/Onlineexp/portal/staring.html

and the results are here

http://www.sheldrake.org/Onlineexp/results/

Oh well. So me and my mates could easily have walked past a gang of sasquatches all boggle-eyed from staring at us and we'd never have known it. Still it was a nice day for a walk.

As humans are mammals, carnivorous(as a rule) and are in fact inherently, albeit on a more sedate or civilized? level.... animalistic....we do have the abililty to sense danger and or notice when something is "out of place" (the "fight or flight" syndrome)...I firmly believe that we DO have the ability to get a sense of "being watched".

OK, so is it mentioned in a significant number of sasquatch reports because he, unlike, many wild animals literally stares at us intently? I've never heard anyone who's had an encounter with any other animal say that they felt they were being watched.

Good point Ludo......I have never heard of anyone or read anything that said that they felt like they were being watched by a bear, panther, bobcat, etc

I should point out that I was turned on to Sheldrake by a formerly well-known 'bigfooter' who brought him up by way of illustrating why the search for sasquatch is ultimately futile.

That is to say, if you choose to 'believe' it, there appear to be phenomenon like this (the sense of being started at, pets sensing when their owner's are coming home etc.) that defy rational explanation and might go a long way of explaining how sasquatches generally remain so elusive. I am by no means advocating such a theory, nor am I remotely convinced of these phenomenon, ...BUT... I'm reminded of stories like Scott Herriot's of a grown man weeping at the sight of a sasquatch, or of fairly hearty, lifelong hunters refusing to return to places they've supposedly seen such animals, etc. It seems to me to be more than just base fear, or an overwhelming experience with something so unknown. It's more like an uncontrollable chemico-physiological reaction. To me it's only a step beyond the well-known things like some (but not all) dogs being to "smell" cancer cells or anticipate thunderstorms and earthquakes.

Don'y worry, I'm not turning into Paranormalman, but it really fascinates me that there could be legitimate but not yet understood proper scientific explanations for biological creatures influencing eachother like this. I'm thinking of electromagnetic waves/fields or sorts of things like that, which I really don't know a whole lot about in the first place. Feel free to scoff and laugh (I certainly did) but I highly recommend an objective look at Sheldrake's work, for starters, if you're at all intrigued.

Apeman

PS- I have certainly heard plenty of stories of people feeling like they were being stared at by other animals (including people) before they realized they were there, it's by no means restricted to sasquatch anecdotes.

Sasquatch (assuming they're real) and humans, as a general rule, really don't like being around each other it seems.

Perhaps deep down in our instinctual make up, we'd both rather not come head to head with another species so closely related and possibly overlapping into the other's niche competively (and we're both potentially very dangerous). We continually hear of stories of Sasq. and humans, during an encounter, quickly segregating themselves deeper into their respective niches: Sasq. to the deep woods, humans to the more open area, where they both feel safer I assume.

I wonder, like Apeman, if we are hyper sensitive to electrical, chemical or aural clues that a closely related species-competitor is nearby.

This seems to be different from sensing a predator. I have seen plenty of black bear in Colorado (they're not a strict predator and don't try too hard to hide), but no cougars, even though there are just as many of the cats here as bears. I wonder how many dozens of cougars I've gone ignorantly hiking by without knowing it.

Predators would have to hide any potential signals of themselves to their prey. For closely related competitors the opposite would make sense.

Apeman, it may not be a good analog, but do the great apes in the wild seem to sense people, and vice versa, maybe more than they would other animals?

It's a great question, but how would one test it?

I was just refreshing my memory on some of Sheldrake's work and reread this rebuttal. You should all give it a quick read and you don't really need any background. It's a fun laugh on skeptics and good ammunition for all the skeptic-haters amongst us. So many parallels....

Apeman

Then there is this-

http://www.boundaryinstitute.org/articles/jaytee2.pdf

m

Um, Wow? Even with graduate training in statistics that paper is hard swallow, but the guys seems to be for real. Check this out from his bio (highlights mine):



Sound familiar?

Apeman

PS- Does anyone know where one, who considers himself pretty normal, can go for a confessional when you find yourself hanging out on bigfoot websites talking about the paranormal...and harping on what you consider one of your better attributes- skepticism?

Heh, interesting read that rebuttal.

My mother in law swears my cats start yowling for me about 5 mins before I get home.

That could be the "clever hans" effect. Hans was a horse that could stamp out the numeric answers to complex mathematical questions. Turns out Hans was keying off the body language of the questioner. In other words, when Hans got near the answer, the questioner would get more excited, and Hans would stop stamping.

So maybe your cats are really watching your mother in law who is anticipating your return....

Well I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it if I got home at one time like clockwork. It's any time between 5 and 9 some evenings, my mother in law knows only to expect me when she sees me. Then if I go out to the stores or something I could be gone anywhere between half an hour and three, and it happens then too.

However, it's not quite like the dog, since cats are you know, cats. Sometimes they can't be bothered whether I get home or not. Like sometimes you stroll in with a treat for them and yell and they eventually come with the "What the f#$@ do YOU want??? I was sleeping!!!" face on.

I think some are more sensitive to this than others, but then I believe in ghosts, as well. I can't see them, but my ex sure could, and she also told me point blank when we were camping in the Olympic Peninsula rainforest that some 'thing' was watching us from the woods. After she told me I definitely got that creepy feeling, but she was so freaked out that I had to take her back to the campsite, even though I just wanted to start hunting for a sasquatch!

I think I'll have better luck with my new g/f, she is all over hunting for the big guy. I've told her she should become the Dianne Fossey of sasquatches. (I also believe, that like gorillas, sasquatches are more approachable and more curious around females).

Interest in bigfoot has got to be the least effective way to meet women EVER, right after computers.

Yah, she games too, and she let me hang swords on the walls. Keeper!

Yup. I have.

I don't know how accurate the feeling is.

Once while on a hunting trip, first thing one morning while Mrs. Huntster was still cuddled in the bedroll, I walked over to the creek to splash water on my face and brush my teeth. After a few minutes of doing so while simultaneously looking about at the beautiful morning scenery I was treated to, I saw a wolf up on the mountainside some 500 or better yards away sitting down watching me.

I never felt that somebody or something was watching me.

But, like I've written, I've sure felt it.

A couple of years ago a hunting partner and I visited a moose gutpile we left on the side of a river, hoping to find a black bear on it. We knew a brown bear was in that valley, because we'ed seen him a week before. When we arrived at the gutpile left some 36 hours before, we found it buried with the brown bear's tracks all around.

We didn't hang out long (brown bear season wasn't open yet there).

I had an uncomfortable feeling; not necessarily that I was watched, but that he might be lying in the bushes just out of sight sleeping.........

If this can happen to Apeman - There is NO - I tell you, NO hope for any of us!!!!!!!!! lmao.

I think this does go a long way to suggesting how BF can both be real and be so elusive. It seems clear to me that a "conventional" cryptid would have been catalogued if only by chance already. So the fact that BF is not scientifically catalogued seems to indicate that BF, if real, is not a typical creature. That is to say that he must combine an elevated human-like intelligence with animal senses, capabilities, and "instincts". Imagining the creature, BF must be a shade off of our intelligence, in that he is not quite intelligent enough to be impaired by self-consciousness. Because he is not impaired by the human fixation with "ego" he has direct access to the unconscious mind -- which has far more resoures and capabilities than the conscious mind could possibly command. What we call "intuition" is really nothing more than the unconscious mind trying to communicate with us, and how often are these intuitions accurate?

So the problem of BF becomes a problem of being out of touch with our spiritual side, such that a creature who commands more-than-rational resources becomes a phenomenon that our rationalist / reductionist / egotistical consciousness has a hard time accepting. Perhaps this explains the "scofftics" who are emotionally invested in denying the phenomenon, because to acknowledge it is to acknowledge that "dark" side of ourselves that we fearfully believe threatens the light of our own consciousness.

Just a rough theory, but something you might expect from a Jungian like myself.

I mentioned this some time ago. I go to a lot of presentations, and wondered if I stared at someone, would they turn to look at me. I chose people sitting in front of me so they would be forced to make a conscious effort to look at/for me (ie, turn around). Sure enuff, it seemed to happen 5/6 times. Anecdotal experiment, but wierd. What are the stats that many would consciously turn and scan the crowd in the middle of a presentation??

I have read two of Sheldrake's books, "The Sence of Being Stared At" and "The Dog Who Knows When His Owner is Coming Home".

I highly recommend the reading of these books to anyone involved in the sasquatch mystery and to animal lovers as well.

From years of owning many animals and being around many others, I absolutely believe in this ability to sence the presence and intent of other people and animals.

This is not some "out there" phenomena such as tarot cards or reading tea leaves, it is a natural ability that all creatures seem to possess. It may even exists among the plant kingdom, there is a great book called "The Secret Life of Plants" that discusses this.

This "sence" is not species specific as is works between differing species.

I have always noticed two different feelings of being watched. One is when you know someone is looking at you, It can more or less just drive you nuts lol. The other is when your not sure your being watched. I really believe humans can tell when something is watching them. If you think about it way back before we became lets say the kings of the jungle being able to tell when something was looking at you could have saved your butt a lot. If some predator was stalking a human not being able to tell they was being watch would have made them a easy kill. If that was the case I am not really sure we would still be around today.

Ancient and medieval writers, philosophers mostly, believed that there was a "light" that eminated from a person's eyes. Shakespeare's Hamlet shows this when in one scene he is staring at Ophelia, and she says, as he walked backwards out her closet, that "he found his ways without his eyes, which to the very end bended their light on me."

The famous 18th century hypnotist Dr. Franz Mesmer (mesmerism) would fix his eyes on the patient and cause them to go into a trance or deep sleep. There is a famous illustration of Mesmer which depicts rays of light eminating from his eyes. Mesmer also believed in using magnetism to cure illnesses.

A little digging with Google revealed:



Just a thought.

(From an interesting geocaching forum, but doesn't look necessarily crypto-friendly, judging from some comments in that thread.)

Here's something I wrote that's along vaguely similar lines, although I was suggesting why sighters, rather than scoftics, were so alarmed by the creature. But I think some of what I suggested applies to some scoftics-at-the-concept as well:

One of the first things you learn as a hunter (especially those that have to get close as in bowhunting) is not to stare at your prey. Although I have read this tip in print, most hunters are never thaught this idea, it comes to you instinctively as you learn to stalk game.

The old saying is that "the eyes are the window to the soul". I know the eyes focus the brain and the brain is an extremely complex electrical machine. I believe the brain emits energy that can sometimes be picked up by other beings. In short if you focus to intently the prey will feel you.

Choctaw

You just need to curl up with a good Richard Dawkins book and a glass of really good Scotch!

But seriously, this whole Sheldrake thing is maddening I tell you! It completely tosses out the philosophy of science by ignoring simpler explanations. The thing people seem to miss is the cognitive processing that goes on outside of our being aware of it (i.e. subconscious processing). The ears, eyes and nose pick up information and our subconscious brain actually 'thinks' about that without our conscious minds even knowing it. This is why this Sheldrake stuff seems puzzling to many people, because most of us don't know about the rest of our brain/mind processes. It's just a shame they have to look for explanations without even a plausible hypothesis before looking at more likely explanations.

I tried something like DF's experiment few years ago. I was thinking about this subject while at home looking out the livingroom window at my 4 year old playing in the dirt. I called my wife and 6 year old and told them to "just stare at him. See if he notices us". He had his back to us and was busy trying to pull his tonka truck apart. A minute and a half later his gets up, walks to the screen door and yells in, "you tallin me?"

I do believe we can all sense something.

I'd like to see us here go and try something like this ourselves and see who thought they got results.

This makes sense. We have been evolving for more than a 1/2 million years, and this sense of being watched or stalked might be a genetic trait passed on by the survivors of the wild times. Those who lacked this ability were the prey. So by what means or mechanism would this mental awareness operate? Radio towers put out powerful electromagnetic waves that are picked up by antennas. Does BF put out a tiny electromagnetic force field that can be sensed? If so could it be measured?

Another fact that has come up on the forum are low frequency sound vibrations possibly emitted by BF that are felt and not heard by humans. These vibrations bring on a feeling of fear. These vibrations are called infrasounds. These sound waves also travel farther than higher frequency waves. When BF sees you, does it emit these waves to communicate to others BFs and to terrorize the human intruder?


This is a quote from the webpage below: Whales, elephants, hippopotamuses, rhinoceros, giraffes, okapi, and alligators are known to use infrasound to communicate over varying distances of up to many miles, as in the case of the whale. It has also been suggested [2] that migrating birds use naturally generated infrasound, from sources such as turbulent airflow over mountain ranges, as a navigational aid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound

This is a quote from the webpage below: For vibration at very low frequencies, motion sickness of people in boats must have been one of the earliest noticeable effects. The human body is particularly sensitive to vibrations and infrasound near 7 Hz, at which frequency there is an overall mechanical resonance of organs in the abdominal and chest cavities.

http://www.answers.com/topic/infrasound?cat=technology

very interesting................humm..............

I must be doing something wrong 'cause any staring I've done at the back of people's heads doesn't seem to produce any significant positive results.

On the other hand, almost every time I've looked behind me while attending any sort of function where there are numerous people seated (Church, lecture, presentation, etc.) someone is invariably looking at me. That doesn't mean they were staring at me, only that the motion of my head turning around attracted their attention momentarily. It seems my own eyes are attracted to this type of motion as well. I see movement, I glance towards whatever/whoever made the movement.

Makes me wonder, if we humans are so adept at realizing when someone is staring at us, why do so many people fail to notice hidden cameras? Whether it be Punk'd, Candid Camera, mall cameras, nanny cams, private investigators, police stings, etc., the victims seem quite unaware they're being stared at (recorded as well).

RayG

Check.

I'm no so sure this is true. Sheldrake might be more guilty of this but you should take 10 mins to read Dean Radin's website. It seems to me that most of these guys believe there MUST be a biological (or quantum mechanical) explanation. But Radin showing that people can apparently effect electronic random number generators totally blows my mind.

***

There really isn't any question that being able to know when you're being stared at would be adaptive, the question is "How does it happen?"

I'll also point out that virtually all the decent science that's been done in this regard seems to show that some individuals (humans or dogs) are good at it and some aren't so it doesn't really seem to be a question of "why can't I make my wife realize I'm burning holes in the back of her head" or "why can't people detect when they're being filmed." This is all way beyond the realm of such absolutes.

Apeman

...and now we have this to add....



(more in article)

Hmmm. Isn't the old 'wives tale' that cats suck the breath out of you - or is that only for babies?

I think it's babies, but it's a myth anyway.

I found I use the same principle when avoiding the cops. If I happened to see one coming towards me, I definitely do not look away, but at the same time I certainly don't stare or even look at him.

I say this tongue in cheek of course, I'm not wanted, uh, at least not anymore, lol . But say when I'm driving down the road with an expired tag and I see one of our FINE Roanoke County/City Officers coming my way. Something to that affect. Seems to work to my advantage most of the time.



Maybe your dyslexic Ray, lol.

Yeah I saw that article. Very Interesting indeed. I would hate to be a patient there and have that cat jump up on my bed! I'd probably die right then of a Heart attack. . .but seriously, animals have all kinds of senses we don't. Most of them good, IMO. They say the cat when kicked out of the room when family arrives, paces back & forth meowing loudly. Freaky stuff. But cool also, that it gives the family a warning so they can spend the last few moments together. I'm sure we'd all hope for that.

I believe we do have just as many senses as animals. We're just taught at a very young age that we won't be taken seriously because they're not tangible.

The brain is so complex. I would venture to guess we only know a fraction of its capabilities.

As far as senses go, you're probably right. I think/know some of the same senses we have that dogs have, smell, eyesight, ect, are far more acute in the dog. For instance, I spit a piece of gum into the middle of a 10x12 section of ivy. A week later my dog dove into the ivy and came out with that piece of gum. Then we probably have some senses other animals don't that we have not cultivated yet. . .but you gotta admit that cat thing is pretty cool or freaky. However you want to look at it.

Yeah, I thought that cat thing was pretty freaky.

My friend had a dog(a real big Rot) that we swear could predict when she would have a seizure, as he would get as close to her as possible and in about 1 minute she was falling on him.

Also, I had a weird experience. For unknown reasons I couldn't get my friend's Dad out of my mind for about a week. I kept seeing his face with his usual smile. I hadn't seen him in a while, and wasn't talking with anyone about him. After that week, we got the call to come help search for him. When he was finally found, he had died in a freak farming accident. Just one of those happennings that make you go hmmm. Coincidence... most likely, but weird just the same.

Some researchers are very interested in the cat, and they may want to see if people give off some odor a few hours prior to death. The nurse said a dying person's legs get a bluish tint a few hours before death and aside from color there may be other stimuli the cat is picking up. One doctor said the cat may be attracted to the warm blanket dying patients get a few hours before death. This was confusing since the article seemed to state the cat sat on the floor beside the bed a few hours before death.

Well there is a good chance that BF possesses the ability to have extrasensory perception since its brain was allowed to grow naturally allowing the senses to become acute. Our brains were artifically developed, and we did not need to depend on our senses as much as a wild animal where life and death follows one around all day.

There are reasons why peope feel watched, and we just need to understand the experiments that bring out the facts. Magic is not the answer.

Nope, definitely not magic, nor psychic. I think our brain takes in way more than we can interpret and make sense of it. We only have five senses. We just aren't utilizing them to their potential.

As for being stared at, in the woods it just may be something we heard or smelled. In the example of people in a lecture hall, and you're staring at the back of the head of someone... no wonder it doesn't work reliably... they're just probably curious of who's all there.

As far as having a sense you're being watched, especially in the woods or any darkened area is due mainly to the fact you can't see into the dark, so your subconcious tells you to beware they may be something in the dark. In time that thought becomes there IS something in the dark you can't see. The same may hold true for areas where you have limited sight ability, such as thick brush or heavily wooded areas. Is something watching you? Most likely, but not necessarily something dangerous, or a bigfoot or any other specific animal, creature, being you could name. Years ago I was taking a vacation in Northern Wisconsin and was driving my old Chevy Blazer. On the front I had a push bar and mounted on that a pair of amber lensed driving lights. The thing with lights with amber lenses is you don't get a lot of bright white light flooding out in front of you vehicle, but it still reflects off things that reflect light for some distance. As a matter of fact I could turn these on going south on the highway just out of town here, and see the signs above an overpass nearly three miles down the road reflecting light quite strongly. So as I'm driving along up in Northern Wisconsin I was using my regular headlights and also had that feeling that something was watching me, but couldn't see anything at all in the headlights or along the side of the road I was traveling. So I reached down and flipped on the driving lights just for a better look. ALL I COULD SEE WERE EYES REFLECTING BACK AT ME IN THE WOODS AND IN THE FIELDS ALONG THE ROAD! I'm sure most were herds of deer, maybe a bear or two and whatever other little creatures may have been scampering around out there at that time of night. Seriously I saw probably well over 100 pairs of eyes glowing back at me. So I did the best thing I could do in that situation, turned off the lights and tried to forget about it! Geesh..

Now I expect that something IS watching me everytime I got into the woods, on a lake or whatever. But I don't have a sense of dread or peril or anything like that associated with it.

This is a very well known and well documented phenomenon. There are actually programs to train dogs that seem to show this ability how to alert and protect their epileptic owners. As far as I know the ability is still not fully understood but there a number of (nonparanormal) explanations from chemical to electrical.

I don't think any of these things that we're discussing are actually extrasensory (probably a much better term than paranormal), I suspect we just haven't fully figured out all the senses or at least the finer points of them.

I agree that there is certainly an element of being alone, in the woods, in the dark, and feeling uneasy- regardless of whether there are other animals within 10 miles, which makes real-life, natural tests of this close to impossible to test. But that is why Sheldrake's controlled studies are so intriguing.

Apeman

Well, I grew up right outside of Yosemite N.P. and I can tell you that, I have had the feeling of being watched many times right before a sighting of a black bear, mountain lion or mulies(mule deer). I have a feeling though that my hearing, senses a quiet disturbance among the woods because of a "top of the food chain" animal is present. I may be wrong... just an observation.

I'm thinking I must be more "in tune" with cats than other critters, walking down the street, I'll usually pick up any cats that are looking at me. Doesn't seem to happen much for dogs, squirrels, rabbits. Might happen for horses, doesn't seem to for sheep or cows. Hard to tell really, not many critters common enough to have a good idea about. I hope the cat thing extends to pumas.

My gut feeling is, that it's not the looking, it's that the attention is focussed on someone. If you just happen to be staring into space as it were and someone happens to be there, they will very rarely notice.

I've seen that too. More than once. (Dogs predicting seizures)

I could easily believe the body gives off 'signs' when death is near. Signs that possibly only animals could pick up on, at least right now. . .the warm blanket theory though I find confusing. Because they put the blanket on the patient after the fact, in other words after the cat determines the patient doesn't have much time left. At least that's the way I took it.

If B/F exists, I agree with you. Im sure they have more acute senses than humans have, just like you said. It's possible they pick up some sort of 'feeling' from us, much the same way lots of people have reported they had when having an encounter. Maybe they pick up on our electrical charge the same way a shark does, or maybe we give off some type of infrasound also.(as some think B/F does) Who knows, but I'll bet its 's something like this.

Good point. Sharks and electrical charges is another interesting possibility. Sharks are highly sensistive to electrical charges humans and other animals give off so they hone in on the source. We may have the same ability since BF or other large animals may give off an electrical field. Who know..........you physicist do some research.

Another theory are subliminal clues. We see things that our conscious minds don't focus on, but our brains receive the message. Isn't this form of adversising illegal? At drive-ins the film would flash popcorn on the screen so fast we would not notice but later the urge for popcorn would compell us to get a bag. By the way drive-ins were big when I was a kid. You drove your car into a big parking lot, and a huge screen reflected the film while you listened through speakers on long wires. Many a child was conceived there if you know what I mean! Those were the days.

Anyway, while in the woods we scan the scenery and our subconscious mind may see the BF in the bushes in a quick flash, then we get this creepy feeling. The same thing might apply to quick flashed smells and sounds. We may have lost the ability to pick up on quick sensory flashes due to our socital brain programming verses brains that grow up in the wild woods of paradise. Wild cultures or those who survive off the land may have this ability to recognize quick sensory flashes as a means to survive. Just another theory that needs proof.

Will be out BF hunting along the Rogue River in Oregon for a week and will report when I get back.

NewsFlash:
Rupert Sheldrake stabbed by attendee at NM Conference.

more at Cryptomundo.

(What's the security going to be like in Texas? )

Apeman

(posted here because it's the most recent thread involving RS)