QUOTE(bobber @ Jan 24 2007, 11:53 AM) 
I'm in Roscommon County, Drew..............
So you know the area I've been talking about? Have you ever heard or seen anything 'weird' in the area?
Full Version: Bigfoot in Michigan
So you know the area I've been talking about? Have you ever heard or seen anything 'weird' in the area?
Since this is a Michigan thread, and it mentions Bigfoot in the article, I think this is the best place to put an article about cougars in Michigan.
We have all believed there to be cougars here, but the DNR won't acknowledge it. Here is recent article citing proof of at least 8 cougars in the U.P.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../701270374/1003
We have all believed there to be cougars here, but the DNR won't acknowledge it. Here is recent article citing proof of at least 8 cougars in the U.P.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../701270374/1003
I live in Berrien County, Michigan. It's my opinion that existing cougar population is very possible in our state. According to the local newspaper (the Herald-Palladium out of St Joseph, Michigan), our local animal control has received many reports of cougar sightings around the county.
I have no idea why the Michigan DNR takes the stance that they do. I guess they have their reasons. They have claimed that cougars sighted (if they even acknowledge the sighting) are pets who were released into the wild, so those animals just don't count.
:wtf: !!!
What difference does it really make? If your kid is out walking the dog in the outback of your property, and gets stalked & killed by a cougar, then you tell me... If it is a native cougar, as opposed to a "released pet cougar", does that make any difference? A dead kid is dead kid. In the instance in northern Berrien County, a dead horse is a dead horse. It simply doesn't matter where the cougar came from. It did it.
There are reports of sightings of a cougar with two cubs in someone's yard south of me near Warren Dunes State Park in southern Berrien County. Hmmm... Guess they're breeding, whether they are imported pets or indigenous.
This issue, to me, is a matter of public awareness & safety. What's wrong with the state agency and their stance? If you or your kid get attacked or killed by a cougar, will you really care where it came from? I wouldn't! And OMG, we taxpayers pay their salaries.....
Obviously this is a sore spot for me...
If you'd like some links, I'll try to supply them... I've been following this for a bit...
I have no idea why the Michigan DNR takes the stance that they do. I guess they have their reasons. They have claimed that cougars sighted (if they even acknowledge the sighting) are pets who were released into the wild, so those animals just don't count.
:wtf: !!!What difference does it really make? If your kid is out walking the dog in the outback of your property, and gets stalked & killed by a cougar, then you tell me... If it is a native cougar, as opposed to a "released pet cougar", does that make any difference? A dead kid is dead kid. In the instance in northern Berrien County, a dead horse is a dead horse. It simply doesn't matter where the cougar came from. It did it.
There are reports of sightings of a cougar with two cubs in someone's yard south of me near Warren Dunes State Park in southern Berrien County. Hmmm... Guess they're breeding, whether they are imported pets or indigenous.
This issue, to me, is a matter of public awareness & safety. What's wrong with the state agency and their stance? If you or your kid get attacked or killed by a cougar, will you really care where it came from? I wouldn't! And OMG, we taxpayers pay their salaries.....
Obviously this is a sore spot for me...
If you'd like some links, I'll try to supply them... I've been following this for a bit...
Yeah there are for sure cougars in Michigan in Cheboygan we have family that live up there that have found BIG cat prints and this guy knows his prints with 60 + years of hunting and a boy around there has saw it twice and they have a blurd pic of the cougar taken by a lady across the street that saw it bedded under a tree I saw the pic cause the person is a member of the family but it is for sure a cougar. NO DOUBT !!!
I'll be more siccinct. My opinion is that if someone lets a pet cougar loose, or if it gets loose on it's own, its out there in the environment, no longer caged. The climate is fine for them. Yep, they can survive just fine. And if they find a mate, then they can propagate, and their young have just as good a chance of surviving & acclimating as a wild native cougar. They are all carnivores.
I say let the academic scientists debate whether the animals sighted are native, or imported/released. That's a moot point. Attacked is attacked. Ate is ate. Dead is dead, be it livestock, wildlife, or humans. My stance is that the DNR should acknowledge the existence of animals that could be hazardous in any area of the state so that people can protect their livestock, pets, and family members. I further think that then they could alert the public of the animal's existence in their area, and tell them what protection measures to take to keep them safe, and also what to do if you come across an animal when you don't expect it. That's fairly simple, and makes sense to me.
A cougar is a known animal. If a bigfoot were discovered, then that would be a little different because we can't study an animal not known to exist. Discovery comes first. Time would be needed to determine how they live & what, if any, threat to our daily lives it posed, and the best way to react to an encounter with one or more. I suppose that's where sightings reports would help to fill a gap. At least there would be something about the creature's behavior to review.
It's all something to think about...
I say let the academic scientists debate whether the animals sighted are native, or imported/released. That's a moot point. Attacked is attacked. Ate is ate. Dead is dead, be it livestock, wildlife, or humans. My stance is that the DNR should acknowledge the existence of animals that could be hazardous in any area of the state so that people can protect their livestock, pets, and family members. I further think that then they could alert the public of the animal's existence in their area, and tell them what protection measures to take to keep them safe, and also what to do if you come across an animal when you don't expect it. That's fairly simple, and makes sense to me.
A cougar is a known animal. If a bigfoot were discovered, then that would be a little different because we can't study an animal not known to exist. Discovery comes first. Time would be needed to determine how they live & what, if any, threat to our daily lives it posed, and the best way to react to an encounter with one or more. I suppose that's where sightings reports would help to fill a gap. At least there would be something about the creature's behavior to review.
It's all something to think about...
A skeptical view of the Michigan Cougar, with a mention of Michigan Bigfoot. BF supporters will hear a lot of the same things they hear from BF skeptics. It's really very funny.
http://www.thetimesherald.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../703020332/1006
(edited to add quote to article posting)
http://www.thetimesherald.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../703020332/1006
QUOTE
Article published Mar 2, 2007
Good luck trying to find mountain lion
The federal government has joined the search for Michigan's mythical mountain lions.
The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service will be at a disadvantage, though.
All it has going for it is a nationwide network of scientists and field personnel.
Groups such as the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy have something better than that: Faith. The group exists to prove there is a wild, reproducing population of the big cats in the Great Lakes state.
By disagreeing with the devotees of the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy, I'm painting a target on my back, but here goes anyway.
They're a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.
When I wrote about mountain lions last fall, the worst thing they called me was a flat-lander. Some of you may not know this, but there are three classes of people in Michigan. God's people live above the bridge (the Mackinac Bridge, that is). Trolls live below the bridge. And south of the trolls live the flat-landers - anyone who lives on the smooth, featureless plain that is southern Michigan.
So, OK, I'm a flat-lander. But I used to be a troll. And while I was a troll, I used to hang out with the guys who ran dogs after bobcats. The only two-legged beings who spent more time in the Michigan woods than those guys were Mr. and Mrs. Sasquatch. Bobcat hunters go out to look for ghosts. Those guys brought them back.
They didn't bring back any mountain lions, or even any evidence of any. Likewise, anyone would have trouble explaining why a million or so deer, small game, turkey and waterfowl hunters never come across any cougar tracks during a winter walk in the woods.
But ignore my skepticism. I have been wrong before. If you've got evidence of a mountain lion nesting in the crawl space under your family room, the Fish & Wildlife Service wants to hear about it.
The agency put the "eastern" cougar on the endangered-species list in 1973, and is obligated by law to re-examine its status periodically. The agency is beginning one of those periodic reviews, examining scientific and, I suppose, nonscientific, evidence of the cat's status in 21 eastern states reaching from Maine to Michigan to Georgia.
The agency isn't quite sure there was ever a separate "eastern" species of mountain lion. But it's also reasonably sure that, if there had been, it was wiped out long ago.
If you have evidence mountain lions are running through your subdivision, thumbing their noses at the neighborhood house cats, you need to write the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and report your observations. The address for this review: Eastern Cougar Northeast Regional Office U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 300 Westgate Center Drive Hadley, MA 01035 or by e-mail to EasternCougar @fws.gov.
Information must be received by March 30, for the status review, although the Service will continue to accept new information about eastern cougars at any time.
Good luck trying to find mountain lion
The federal government has joined the search for Michigan's mythical mountain lions.
The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service will be at a disadvantage, though.
All it has going for it is a nationwide network of scientists and field personnel.
Groups such as the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy have something better than that: Faith. The group exists to prove there is a wild, reproducing population of the big cats in the Great Lakes state.
By disagreeing with the devotees of the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy, I'm painting a target on my back, but here goes anyway.
They're a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.
When I wrote about mountain lions last fall, the worst thing they called me was a flat-lander. Some of you may not know this, but there are three classes of people in Michigan. God's people live above the bridge (the Mackinac Bridge, that is). Trolls live below the bridge. And south of the trolls live the flat-landers - anyone who lives on the smooth, featureless plain that is southern Michigan.
So, OK, I'm a flat-lander. But I used to be a troll. And while I was a troll, I used to hang out with the guys who ran dogs after bobcats. The only two-legged beings who spent more time in the Michigan woods than those guys were Mr. and Mrs. Sasquatch. Bobcat hunters go out to look for ghosts. Those guys brought them back.
They didn't bring back any mountain lions, or even any evidence of any. Likewise, anyone would have trouble explaining why a million or so deer, small game, turkey and waterfowl hunters never come across any cougar tracks during a winter walk in the woods.
But ignore my skepticism. I have been wrong before. If you've got evidence of a mountain lion nesting in the crawl space under your family room, the Fish & Wildlife Service wants to hear about it.
The agency put the "eastern" cougar on the endangered-species list in 1973, and is obligated by law to re-examine its status periodically. The agency is beginning one of those periodic reviews, examining scientific and, I suppose, nonscientific, evidence of the cat's status in 21 eastern states reaching from Maine to Michigan to Georgia.
The agency isn't quite sure there was ever a separate "eastern" species of mountain lion. But it's also reasonably sure that, if there had been, it was wiped out long ago.
If you have evidence mountain lions are running through your subdivision, thumbing their noses at the neighborhood house cats, you need to write the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and report your observations. The address for this review: Eastern Cougar Northeast Regional Office U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 300 Westgate Center Drive Hadley, MA 01035 or by e-mail to EasternCougar @fws.gov.
Information must be received by March 30, for the status review, although the Service will continue to accept new information about eastern cougars at any time.
(edited to add quote to article posting)
DELAWARE COUGAR CONFIRMATIONS
Exclusive to ECN, 11/26/02
The Delaware Division of Fish & Wildlife believes that there are currently at least two, and possibly more, free-roaming cougars in the State. The DNREC has confirmed the presence of cougars in the state over a period of several years. Officials are convinced that these animals are of captive origin. Sighting reports and confirmations of their presence have generally come from New Castle and Kent Counties. Evidence includes home video footage, pictures, tracks, scat and sightings by DNREC staff & law enforcement personnel. The pictures and videos are definitive. There is also evidence that the cats are regularly feeding on white-tailed deer and Canada geese. No reliable evidence exists of cougars taking domestic animals or threatening humans.
Credible cougar activity in the area started about eight years ago, when they were first reported near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Within a few months, cougar reports began to occur in northern Delaware. A video of a cougar was taken in Arden about this time. The DNREC is certain that the video is authentic. In response, the New Castle County Police assigned one of their officers (Butch LeFebvre) to catch the cougar(s). He arranged with the Delaware S.P.C.A. and the New Bolton Veterinary Clinic of the University of Pennsylvania to be trained in the use of a tranquilizer gun. The plan was to sedate the animal and take it to the Wilmington Zoo until a permanent home could be found. Officer LeFebvre chased the cat for several months, and even brought in cougar hounds from Colorado. He claimed to have seen it on several occasions, but never came close to catching it.
There has been a consistent stream of credible reports from all three of the state's counties over the years. Members of the DNREC staff have reported seeing cougars over the years, but none recently. Park Rangers at White Clay Creek and Lum's Pond State Park have claimed to have seen cougars over the past decade, as has a naturalist with the Heritage Program at Woodland Beach. Two years ago, the DNREC received a video of a cougar in western Kent County, near the Sussex County line.
Captain Robert Hutchins of the Delaware DNREC summarized the evidence in the following email to ECN:
From: Hutchins Robert (DNREC)
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:10 PM
To: Dowling, Mark (COMFIN, VFS)
Subject: RE: Cougar Project
Mark,
Here is a quick summary of confirmed cougar sightings in New Castle County, Delaware for the years:
Yr. 1999 ............12 Yr. 2000...........13
Yr. 2001.............20 Yr. 2002...........24
All of these confirmed cougar sightings have been investigated by a Fish & Wildlife Agent or Police Officer. I do not keep records of non-confirmed sightings. I can only give copies of the crime reports with cougar information to other police agencies for investigative purposes. Sorry, I forgot about the state law on dissemination of crime reports.
I have seen two separate video's of the cougar sightings that confirm that we have cougars in the area. We also have seen cougar tracks at sightings and cougar tracks at kills on deer and Canada Geese. The news media is keenly aware of the cougars and runs articles frequently.
There has not been a documented attack on livestock or humans in the state. We have photographs of hair, tracks and dead goats, sheep and a calf that were killed by dogs. Attempts to trap and hunt the animals have been unsuccessful. The Division believes there are 2 or 3 cougars in the state. They have been seen near schools, hospitals and shopping centers and have been photographed.
Cougars have been seen in all three counties of Delaware and nearby in Pennsylvania. There have been private citizens who have had cougars in their possession, it is possible that this is the source of cougars in our state. Cougar sightings can generate a lot of concern and apprehension from the public if information is not given to the news media by law enforcement in an attempt to educate the public in cougar safety.
Sincerely,
Cpt. Robert Hutchins
If a tiny state like Delaware could support a small population of cougars, why not Michigan? Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
Exclusive to ECN, 11/26/02
The Delaware Division of Fish & Wildlife believes that there are currently at least two, and possibly more, free-roaming cougars in the State. The DNREC has confirmed the presence of cougars in the state over a period of several years. Officials are convinced that these animals are of captive origin. Sighting reports and confirmations of their presence have generally come from New Castle and Kent Counties. Evidence includes home video footage, pictures, tracks, scat and sightings by DNREC staff & law enforcement personnel. The pictures and videos are definitive. There is also evidence that the cats are regularly feeding on white-tailed deer and Canada geese. No reliable evidence exists of cougars taking domestic animals or threatening humans.
Credible cougar activity in the area started about eight years ago, when they were first reported near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Within a few months, cougar reports began to occur in northern Delaware. A video of a cougar was taken in Arden about this time. The DNREC is certain that the video is authentic. In response, the New Castle County Police assigned one of their officers (Butch LeFebvre) to catch the cougar(s). He arranged with the Delaware S.P.C.A. and the New Bolton Veterinary Clinic of the University of Pennsylvania to be trained in the use of a tranquilizer gun. The plan was to sedate the animal and take it to the Wilmington Zoo until a permanent home could be found. Officer LeFebvre chased the cat for several months, and even brought in cougar hounds from Colorado. He claimed to have seen it on several occasions, but never came close to catching it.
There has been a consistent stream of credible reports from all three of the state's counties over the years. Members of the DNREC staff have reported seeing cougars over the years, but none recently. Park Rangers at White Clay Creek and Lum's Pond State Park have claimed to have seen cougars over the past decade, as has a naturalist with the Heritage Program at Woodland Beach. Two years ago, the DNREC received a video of a cougar in western Kent County, near the Sussex County line.
Captain Robert Hutchins of the Delaware DNREC summarized the evidence in the following email to ECN:
From: Hutchins Robert (DNREC)
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:10 PM
To: Dowling, Mark (COMFIN, VFS)
Subject: RE: Cougar Project
Mark,
Here is a quick summary of confirmed cougar sightings in New Castle County, Delaware for the years:
Yr. 1999 ............12 Yr. 2000...........13
Yr. 2001.............20 Yr. 2002...........24
All of these confirmed cougar sightings have been investigated by a Fish & Wildlife Agent or Police Officer. I do not keep records of non-confirmed sightings. I can only give copies of the crime reports with cougar information to other police agencies for investigative purposes. Sorry, I forgot about the state law on dissemination of crime reports.
I have seen two separate video's of the cougar sightings that confirm that we have cougars in the area. We also have seen cougar tracks at sightings and cougar tracks at kills on deer and Canada Geese. The news media is keenly aware of the cougars and runs articles frequently.
There has not been a documented attack on livestock or humans in the state. We have photographs of hair, tracks and dead goats, sheep and a calf that were killed by dogs. Attempts to trap and hunt the animals have been unsuccessful. The Division believes there are 2 or 3 cougars in the state. They have been seen near schools, hospitals and shopping centers and have been photographed.
Cougars have been seen in all three counties of Delaware and nearby in Pennsylvania. There have been private citizens who have had cougars in their possession, it is possible that this is the source of cougars in our state. Cougar sightings can generate a lot of concern and apprehension from the public if information is not given to the news media by law enforcement in an attempt to educate the public in cougar safety.
Sincerely,
Cpt. Robert Hutchins
If a tiny state like Delaware could support a small population of cougars, why not Michigan? Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
While this is no more scientific then a bigfoot sighting, and thus solidly in the catagorie of "interesting story"....at least a few of us here in Michigan know for an absolute fact that as of mid August of last year, there was at least one cougar in Michigan....I got a glimps of it, JimF got a facefull of it!
QUOTE(nightwing @ Mar 2 2007, 10:42 AM)
While this is no more scientific then a bigfoot sighting, and thus solidly in the catagorie of "interesting story"....at least a few of us here in Michigan know for an absolute fact that as of mid August of last year, there was at least one cougar in Michigan....I got a glimps of it, JimF got a facefull of it!
Story please!!!!? :popcorn2:
QUOTE(Snow Kitty @ Mar 5 2007, 01:59 PM)
Story please!!!!? :popcorn2:
I'll leave this a few more days' and see if Jim sees it or wishes to comment on it. I'll give a short synopsis if he does not make it in within a few.
Yep, Nightwing, it's up to Jim to post if he finds this.
Last year after a colt was killed, I think in Allegan County, and then around Thanksgiving 2006 a horse was attacked & had to be euthanized (in Berrien County), and several other sightings were reported, a meeting/hearing was called in Berrien County, attended by 3 legislators (Upton & Proos & ???), local veterinarians, and of course the interested general public. Local animal control officers talked about the reports they were getting, and the results of the horse autopsy.
In the last 6 months or so, the Michigan DNR has modified their viewpoint on cougars in Michigan. They now have a cougar link on their website & ask for reports. I'm not sure they are serious about it, and if you post something there I'm not so sure they will investigate. Time will tell!
At the time all this was happening in my county, I tried to document & link to the information I found. I checked tonight & some of my links are no longer valid. Sorry. I tried! I do know that once the politicians got involved, the DNR started to pay attention. Not that surprised me!
So to summarize now, yep! There is a possibility that there might be a cougar or two in Michigan.
P.S. -- Obviously the DNR doesn't get out there in the wilderness much...
If ya don't believe me, then ask Jim...
editted for spelling...
Last year after a colt was killed, I think in Allegan County, and then around Thanksgiving 2006 a horse was attacked & had to be euthanized (in Berrien County), and several other sightings were reported, a meeting/hearing was called in Berrien County, attended by 3 legislators (Upton & Proos & ???), local veterinarians, and of course the interested general public. Local animal control officers talked about the reports they were getting, and the results of the horse autopsy.
In the last 6 months or so, the Michigan DNR has modified their viewpoint on cougars in Michigan. They now have a cougar link on their website & ask for reports. I'm not sure they are serious about it, and if you post something there I'm not so sure they will investigate. Time will tell!
At the time all this was happening in my county, I tried to document & link to the information I found. I checked tonight & some of my links are no longer valid. Sorry. I tried! I do know that once the politicians got involved, the DNR started to pay attention. Not that surprised me!
So to summarize now, yep! There is a possibility that there might be a cougar or two in Michigan.
P.S. -- Obviously the DNR doesn't get out there in the wilderness much...
If ya don't believe me, then ask Jim...editted for spelling...
QUOTE
We have all believed there to be cougars here, but the DNR won't acknowledge it. Here is recent article citing proof of at least 8 cougars in the U.P.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../701270374/1003
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../701270374/1003
I KNOW THAT NORTHERN WISCONSIN HAS COUGARS.....A FRIEND OF MINE SENT ME A PICTURE THROUGH E-MAIL OF ONE HE GOT ON HIS GAME CAM ON HIS PROPERTY TAKEN IN 2005. LOCATION- CENTRAL ASHLAND COUNTY NEAR MELLEN. IT APPEARS TO BE QUITE LARGE....I WOULD GUESS 150 LBS......BEAUTIFUL KITTY!!!!! I WISH I STILL HAD PICTURE BUT I DELETED IT A WHILE AGO. SAILGIRL
QUOTE(sailgirl @ Apr 18 2007, 02:21 PM)
I KNOW THAT NORTHERN WISCONSIN HAS COUGARS.....A FRIEND OF MINE SENT ME A PICTURE THROUGH E-MAIL OF ONE HE GOT ON HIS GAME CAM ON HIS PROPERTY TAKEN IN 2005. LOCATION- CENTRAL ASHLAND COUNTY NEAR MELLEN. IT APPEARS TO BE QUITE LARGE....I WOULD GUESS 150 LBS......BEAUTIFUL KITTY!!!!! I WISH I STILL HAD PICTURE BUT I DELETED IT A WHILE AGO. SAILGIRL
I'm sorry sailgirl you siad ashland I have spent alot of time there and have not seen any cougars there
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 21 2007, 11:13 AM)
QUOTE(sailgirl @ Apr 18 2007, 02:21 PM)
I KNOW THAT NORTHERN WISCONSIN HAS COUGARS.....A FRIEND OF MINE SENT ME A PICTURE THROUGH E-MAIL OF ONE HE GOT ON HIS GAME CAM ON HIS PROPERTY TAKEN IN 2005. LOCATION- CENTRAL ASHLAND COUNTY NEAR MELLEN. IT APPEARS TO BE QUITE LARGE....I WOULD GUESS 150 LBS......BEAUTIFUL KITTY!!!!! I WISH I STILL HAD PICTURE BUT I DELETED IT A WHILE AGO. SAILGIRL
I'm sorry sailgirl you siad ashland I have spent alot of time there and have not seen any cougars there
I'm rather confused there Sasquatchfound. Are you saying you're sorry she said it, or sorry because you don't believe it? Just because someone may spend an amount of time in a location and doesn't see something themselves, doesn't mean it can't be there.
QUOTE(GuyInIndiana @ Apr 21 2007, 11:35 AM)
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 21 2007, 11:13 AM)
QUOTE(sailgirl @ Apr 18 2007, 02:21 PM)
I KNOW THAT NORTHERN WISCONSIN HAS COUGARS.....A FRIEND OF MINE SENT ME A PICTURE THROUGH E-MAIL OF ONE HE GOT ON HIS GAME CAM ON HIS PROPERTY TAKEN IN 2005. LOCATION- CENTRAL ASHLAND COUNTY NEAR MELLEN. IT APPEARS TO BE QUITE LARGE....I WOULD GUESS 150 LBS......BEAUTIFUL KITTY!!!!! I WISH I STILL HAD PICTURE BUT I DELETED IT A WHILE AGO. SAILGIRL
I'm sorry sailgirl you siad ashland I have spent alot of time there and have not seen any cougars there
I'm rather confused there Sasquatchfound. Are you saying you're sorry she said it, or sorry because you don't believe it? Just because someone may spend an amount of time in a location and doesn't see something themselves, doesn't mean it can't be there.
what I'm saying is i can almost always find any sign of any known animal that and i spent most my life working with the youth conservation corp. and the gypsy moth program and wardens and have never heard any mention of cougars in that area, however there have been reports of cougar sightings in MT. horab wi sw part
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 21 2007, 12:48 PM)
QUOTE(GuyInIndiana @ Apr 21 2007, 11:35 AM)
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 21 2007, 11:13 AM)
QUOTE(sailgirl @ Apr 18 2007, 02:21 PM)
I KNOW THAT NORTHERN WISCONSIN HAS COUGARS.....A FRIEND OF MINE SENT ME A PICTURE THROUGH E-MAIL OF ONE HE GOT ON HIS GAME CAM ON HIS PROPERTY TAKEN IN 2005. LOCATION- CENTRAL ASHLAND COUNTY NEAR MELLEN. IT APPEARS TO BE QUITE LARGE....I WOULD GUESS 150 LBS......BEAUTIFUL KITTY!!!!! I WISH I STILL HAD PICTURE BUT I DELETED IT A WHILE AGO. SAILGIRL
I'm sorry sailgirl you siad ashland I have spent alot of time there and have not seen any cougars there
I'm rather confused there Sasquatchfound. Are you saying you're sorry she said it, or sorry because you don't believe it? Just because someone may spend an amount of time in a location and doesn't see something themselves, doesn't mean it can't be there.
what I'm saying is i can almost always find any sign of any known animal that and i spent most my life working with the youth conservation corp. and the gypsy moth program and wardens and have never heard any mention of cougars in that area, however there have been reports of cougar sightings in MT. horab wi sw part
QUOTE(sailgirl @ Apr 18 2007, 12:21 PM)
I KNOW THAT NORTHERN WISCONSIN HAS COUGARS.....A FRIEND OF MINE SENT ME A PICTURE THROUGH E-MAIL OF ONE HE GOT ON HIS GAME CAM ON HIS PROPERTY TAKEN IN 2005. LOCATION- CENTRAL ASHLAND COUNTY NEAR MELLEN. IT APPEARS TO BE QUITE LARGE....I WOULD GUESS 150 LBS......BEAUTIFUL KITTY!!!!! I WISH I STILL HAD PICTURE BUT I DELETED IT A WHILE AGO. SAILGIRL
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 21 2007, 08:13 AM)
QUOTE(sailgirl @ Apr 18 2007, 02:21 PM)
I KNOW THAT NORTHERN WISCONSIN HAS COUGARS.....A FRIEND OF MINE SENT ME A PICTURE THROUGH E-MAIL OF ONE HE GOT ON HIS GAME CAM ON HIS PROPERTY TAKEN IN 2005. LOCATION- CENTRAL ASHLAND COUNTY NEAR MELLEN. IT APPEARS TO BE QUITE LARGE....I WOULD GUESS 150 LBS......BEAUTIFUL KITTY!!!!! I WISH I STILL HAD PICTURE BUT I DELETED IT A WHILE AGO. SAILGIRL
I'm sorry sailgirl you siad ashland I have spent alot of time there and have not seen any cougars there
There are many experienced hunters who have never seen cougars here in Oregon, and cougars are flourishing. My life has been spent in Oregon, and I've never seen a cougar. They hunt during the twilight hours and sleep during the day. However they see you.
QUOTE(Mr. Morbid @ Aug 24 2005, 07:15 PM)
Are there any stories about sightings in Michigan... I'm not too sure if I have one as this happened when I was a child... But anyway I don't remember when this happened as I was younger than my teenage years... I was up north with my dad, and two brothers we were in the vicinity of Gaylord, Michigan...
My dads dad had a cottage back in the woods... One day myself and my two brothers went walking around in the woods... We got to the main road which I can't recall at this time because its been so long... We got to the main road and saw something walking in the direction the road runs... My brother said for us to head back to the cottage so we ran back... I can't remember which county Gaylord is in but its just about to Travers city... This happened in the mid to late 80's... So I was wondering if there has been any BF activity in that area...
My dads dad had a cottage back in the woods... One day myself and my two brothers went walking around in the woods... We got to the main road which I can't recall at this time because its been so long... We got to the main road and saw something walking in the direction the road runs... My brother said for us to head back to the cottage so we ran back... I can't remember which county Gaylord is in but its just about to Travers city... This happened in the mid to late 80's... So I was wondering if there has been any BF activity in that area...
The thread started out on BFs and Michigan seems like a perfect habitat for BFs.
[quote name='georgerm' date='Apr 22 2007, 10:06 AM' post='381283']
[What I have been trying to say is because of the diminishing deer cause by a CWD problem in WI. and the fact that the DNR has been snipping many deer every day to control CWD and the 379 wolves, 2500 coyote's and deer car collisions, 6 per day in each count according to DNR, I don't think a cougar would have enough source of food to stick around. now if it was an omnivoure possably.
[What I have been trying to say is because of the diminishing deer cause by a CWD problem in WI. and the fact that the DNR has been snipping many deer every day to control CWD and the 379 wolves, 2500 coyote's and deer car collisions, 6 per day in each count according to DNR, I don't think a cougar would have enough source of food to stick around. now if it was an omnivoure possably.
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 22 2007, 10:12 AM)
[What I have been trying to say is because of the diminishing deer cause by a CWD problem in WI. and the fact that the DNR has been snipping many deer every day to control CWD and the 379 wolves, 2500 coyote's and deer car collisions, 6 per day in each count according to DNR, I don't think a cougar would have enough source of food to stick around. now if it was an omnivoure possably.
What is the CWD problem? Collisions with deer? Who is the DNR and they are doing what?
Bigfoots love deer so do you think many are around?
QUOTE(georgerm @ Apr 22 2007, 11:22 PM)
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 22 2007, 10:12 AM)
[What I have been trying to say is because of the diminishing deer cause by a CWD problem in WI. and the fact that the DNR has been snipping many deer every day to control CWD and the 379 wolves, 2500 coyote's and deer car collisions, 6 per day in each count according to DNR, I don't think a cougar would have enough source of food to stick around. now if it was an omnivoure possably.
What is the CWD problem? Collisions with deer? Who is the DNR and they are doing what?
Bigfoots love deer so do you think many are around?
we don't know that bigfoot loves deer we only know what reports tell us. and in those reports anly the liver was eaten during fall and winter. CWD=chronic waisting disease
QUOTE(sasquatchfound @ Apr 22 2007, 12:12 PM)
What I have been trying to say is because of the diminishing deer cause by a CWD problem in WI. and the fact that the DNR has been snipping many deer every day to control CWD and the 379 wolves, 2500 coyote's and deer car collisions, 6 per day in each count according to DNR, I don't think a cougar would have enough source of food to stick around. now if it was an omnivoure possably.
Hey SQF,
Diminished deer herd in Wisconsin, you're kidding right?
The DNR(Department of Natural Resources) is imposing earn-a-buck programs during deer season to 15% of the deer management units in an attempt to reduce the deer herd. Even in the counties in the SW part of the state where CWD is prevelent, the deer herd hasn't been reduced to anywhere close to the levels that the DNR would like it to be in order to control the spread of the disease.
There has been talk of big cats on and off over the last 20 years and but few confirmed sightings.
The DNR listed 76 possible sightings in 2005, mostly in the northern part of the state.
With the sucess of the population of the wolves(nearly 500 now) in the northern counties of the state, there should be plenty of food for a big cat in the Ashland/Sawyer county area.
WIS
the sightings were in the mt. horab area and that was i believe 3 reports and they were not good reports btu i can't say for certian
recorded reports of cougar http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/science/...st/Mammals.html
Hey all,
I am living in the K'zoo area so if anything pops up or a few of you want to check on a sighting count me in.
I am living in the K'zoo area so if anything pops up or a few of you want to check on a sighting count me in.
Everyone from Michigan Check out the BFRO coming to the UP Thread. Is anyone from Michigan going on this trip?
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...=19420&st=0
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...=19420&st=0
Hi DodgeBoyz,
Actually, it's here:
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=19423
And here:
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=19420
FYI,
Tiger66
Actually, it's here:
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=19423
And here:
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=19420
FYI,
Tiger66
Be sure to drop by Mustang Sally's on Mackinac island. 
Hi Drew,
This story caught my eye this morning on MSN. (It isn't on there now however). I was going to post this but you beat me too it.
I actually submitted an e-mail to find out more information on the U.P. expedition earlier this year but I never received an e-mail back.
If I were to go on this expedition it would be for 2 reasons. One would be to learn better techniques in collecting evidence. The other reason would be to compare notes with other people and possibly get a lead or two to follow.
In one sense it is cool that this story has been passed around in national publications, but in another I wonder whether it might bring out hoaxers, or people to make fun of the freak show.
Nevertheless this may draw some future investigators of this phenomena.
I know in past threads there has been a negative rap on Matt Moneymaker and this moneymaking venture. I personally don't see a problem with the major researchers turning a little profit. If you were to compare the costs of attending the BFRO led expedition to hiring a fly fishing guide I would imagine they wouldn't be too far apart. The service that is given is the research done in finding a suitable location. Generating money for something like this would prove helpful in purchasing better equipment, for higher quality research.
My last thought on this is that the number of people investigating would be counterproductive in approaching the shy giant.
This story caught my eye this morning on MSN. (It isn't on there now however). I was going to post this but you beat me too it.
I actually submitted an e-mail to find out more information on the U.P. expedition earlier this year but I never received an e-mail back.
If I were to go on this expedition it would be for 2 reasons. One would be to learn better techniques in collecting evidence. The other reason would be to compare notes with other people and possibly get a lead or two to follow.
In one sense it is cool that this story has been passed around in national publications, but in another I wonder whether it might bring out hoaxers, or people to make fun of the freak show.
Nevertheless this may draw some future investigators of this phenomena.
I know in past threads there has been a negative rap on Matt Moneymaker and this moneymaking venture. I personally don't see a problem with the major researchers turning a little profit. If you were to compare the costs of attending the BFRO led expedition to hiring a fly fishing guide I would imagine they wouldn't be too far apart. The service that is given is the research done in finding a suitable location. Generating money for something like this would prove helpful in purchasing better equipment, for higher quality research.
My last thought on this is that the number of people investigating would be counterproductive in approaching the shy giant.
I'm combining the threads since this is being talked about elsewhere.
QUOTE(Paulverisor64 @ Jun 27 2007, 03:44 PM)
I know in past threads there has been a negative rap on Matt Moneymaker and this moneymaking venture. I personally don't see a problem with the major researchers turning a little profit. If you were to compare the costs of attending the BFRO led expedition to hiring a fly fishing guide I would imagine they wouldn't be too far apart. The service that is given is the research done in finding a suitable location. Generating money for something like this would prove helpful in purchasing better equipment, for higher quality research.
I agree with this. I assume that the BFRO is a California C or S Corporation largely owned by Matt. The behavior of the Corporation is really nobody's business except for the shareholders and/or the board of directors. They establish their own corporate governance. If you don't want to do business with them, don't. If you don't want to work there, don't. If they damage your interests, sue them. If you think they are making profit beyond the normal return to management, buy their shares, or start your own enterprise to compete with them. But there is not much point in whining about the American system of capitalism, it's a free country. The more money someone could potentially make looking for bigfoot, the more money someone might invest in the search, the more likely bigfoot is to be found.
Absolutley. I agree 100% well said Morgoth.
QUOTE(Morgoth @ Jun 27 2007, 06:09 PM)
I assume that the BFRO is a California C or S Corporation largely owned by Matt.
If it is, it's the first I've heard of it. It's what it should be, though, and if it were, I would agree with your post.
The BFRO is not a non-profit nor is it a corporation. The revenue generating aspect of the BFRO is a sole proprietorship managed by Matt Moneymaker. There is no board of directors. There are no shareholders. Members have as much or as little power over the website, expeditions, and direction of the org as Matt permits them. Any member can be removed from the BFRO at any time at Matt's discretion.
The rest of the organization/group/club/whatever-you-want-to-call-it informally supports that sole proprietorship by investigating reports and being available to Matt. In rare instances, Matt may compensate members for expenses or share income from expedition fees. During my tenure, all monies went to Matt as his personal income. Other than supporting Matt's ability to keep running expeditions, that revenue isn't subsequently re-invested into formal research or equipment.
Matt does not collect revenue from the trinkets sold on the website. Those went to one other person, KW, though that money never amounted to much.
Investigators pay for their own transportation, food, lodging, equipment, etc. Their only compensation is membership in the BFRO and access to the internal database, which includes the queue of fresh reports.
There is nothing wrong with a sole proprietorship. It's not a dirty word. Plenty of respectable people manage their own businesses throughout the United States.
If my information is outdated and the BFRO has become a non-profit or a corporation, please feel free to correct me.
The rest of the organization/group/club/whatever-you-want-to-call-it informally supports that sole proprietorship by investigating reports and being available to Matt. In rare instances, Matt may compensate members for expenses or share income from expedition fees. During my tenure, all monies went to Matt as his personal income. Other than supporting Matt's ability to keep running expeditions, that revenue isn't subsequently re-invested into formal research or equipment.
Matt does not collect revenue from the trinkets sold on the website. Those went to one other person, KW, though that money never amounted to much.
Investigators pay for their own transportation, food, lodging, equipment, etc. Their only compensation is membership in the BFRO and access to the internal database, which includes the queue of fresh reports.
There is nothing wrong with a sole proprietorship. It's not a dirty word. Plenty of respectable people manage their own businesses throughout the United States.
If my information is outdated and the BFRO has become a non-profit or a corporation, please feel free to correct me.
Ouch. I stand corrected. Without a corporate veil the direct criticism is easier to understand.
QUOTE(Judaculla @ Jun 27 2007, 09:20 PM)
.....There is nothing wrong with a sole proprietorship. It's not a dirty word. Plenty of respectable people manage their own businesses throughout the United States......
Sole proprietorships live or die with the sole proprietor.
In the case of an organization that supposedly has a foundation in science, the disadvantages of such a business structure is glaring.
I know we've been through this a million times, but anyone still clinging to the idea that the BFRO is about science is really not paying attention (and I know you're paying attention, Huntster). The BFRO is about adventure tourism. Anyone in the BFRO working on the "expeditions" is volunteering for the Matt Moneymaker Full Employment Program (MMFEP). The BFRO.net website (and the reports listed there) are really nothing more than a marketing mechanism of MMFEP. That's it. Period. End of sentence.
Note I DO NOT CARE if Matt wants to start an adventure tourism business. More power to him. However, what he's done to an organization that once seemed to stand for so much more is really a disappointment.
Note I DO NOT CARE if Matt wants to start an adventure tourism business. More power to him. However, what he's done to an organization that once seemed to stand for so much more is really a disappointment.
QUOTE(bipto @ Jun 27 2007, 11:02 PM)
....I know you're paying attention, Huntster....
Yup. I know you know. And I know you know that I know that you know.
QUOTE
......The BFRO is about adventure tourism....
That's what we know now. Yet, right at the top of their website home:
QUOTE
Founded in 1995 - The scientific research organization exploring the bigfoot / sasquatch mystery
I know. You know. We know that we know.
But many don't. Especially with the advertising performed.
If BFRO was a non-profit or other corporate structure, this wouldn't be happening as we see it now. The odds of tyranny are dramatically lower.
But, then, scientific organizations are made up of boards. So are academic institutions. And they're more feckless than BFRO with regards to sasquatchery.
QUOTE
....Note I DO NOT CARE if Matt wants to start an adventure tourism business. More power to him. However, what he's done to an organization that once seemed to stand for so much more is really a disappointment.
No doubt about it. And it's more than just the failed promise of an organization that could have advanced this quest so far.
By becoming a sideshow carny, he's damaging the credibility of others who want to do what the BFRO could have done. He has actually become a target for Bozos like Penn & Teller.
Well, I'm not sure, but it looks like we both know something...
hey bipto & everyone again those 2 new news segments about bfro on cnn & fox news channel were very interesting this morning, i think matt moneymaker was in michigan dureing his 2 interesting new interviews. im sure this thread will get realy interesting i guess hopefully in nice great way. thanks bill this is still a interesting thread. i wonder if there has been any new possible sasquatch encounters footprints strange screams evidence in michigan forests lately. 
QUOTE(mike2k1 @ Jun 27 2007, 07:04 PM)
I'm combining the threads since this is being talked about elsewhere.
Please revert this thread back to 'Bigfoot in Michigan' it is a general Michigan Bigfoot thread.
Hey guys I pop in and out once every 3-4 months. I used to live in Traverse City (over by Boones Long Lake Inn) and so if anybody has Northern Michigan sightings or info if you drop me a PM I would greatly appreciate it.
Go to http://www.foxnews.com and scroll down to the video section on the right side of the screen.
More sensationalism and ratings based media via fox news joined with MM: two peas in a pod! His doubletalk is amazing!
The best part is when the interviewer asks MM if he is making money off this, and MM gives the following answer:
"No. There's a lot easier ways to make money than off of this." -Matt Moneymaker
Geraldo Rivera/Gerry Rivers should have done a live interview at a buffet with Biscardi for added hilarity.
More sensationalism and ratings based media via fox news joined with MM: two peas in a pod! His doubletalk is amazing!
The best part is when the interviewer asks MM if he is making money off this, and MM gives the following answer:
"No. There's a lot easier ways to make money than off of this." -Matt Moneymaker
Geraldo Rivera/Gerry Rivers should have done a live interview at a buffet with Biscardi for added hilarity.
hey wude wow your very welcome for new above update about the new bfro news segment it was interesting. bill
QUOTE(wudewasa @ Jun 28 2007, 02:38 PM)
.....The best part is when the interviewer asks MM if he is making money off this, and MM gives the following answer:
"No. There's a lot easier ways to make money than off of this." -Matt Moneymaker......
"No. There's a lot easier ways to make money than off of this." -Matt Moneymaker......
Well, he's gotta be right about that. Even though the number of "expeditions" has grown exponentially, it appears to me to be a piss poor "moneymaker", especially for a lawyer from Orange County.
Well a thread about this expedition came up on the Christian Forum I'm apart of and mentioned to them that people pay to go on these things and that MM is a bit of joke among those of us interested in bigfoot should be interesting to see the reaction I get.
Thanks for linking to the interview with Matt Moneymaker and FOX.
It is interesting what the mainstream reaction to the Bigfoot mystery is. Matt was trying to carry on an intelligent conversation amidst the backdrop of laughter.
I think the general public's reaction to this is pretty predictable. Speaking for myself, when I have shared my strange encounters I typically get the "Alright where's the punchline" look. Whenever the topic comes up at work I roll with the laughter. The popular perspective doesn't have to match up with reality. Sometimes it's better to keep quiet about something until more objective evidence is formed.
With that being said, I do think that some of the audio clips that have been recorded could have been interesting to include in this segment. What about the hundreds of report submissions on BFRO itself?
I think Matt was a bit flustered in the interview, probably due to the backdrop of laughter and comical questioning. Matt did do a little bit of double talk. At 1st he claimed that he "had really good stuff", and then when asked to share it to the world he said "we don't have really good stuff yet". (accompanyment of laughter in the background) I can understand what he was getting at, but his delivery came across like he was just imagining there were bigfoot(s). This interview was not taken too seriously, and I think the scientific part of this was just considered a joke.
I could sympathize with Matt. I doubt that many people would have fared well in the given circumstances.
It is interesting what the mainstream reaction to the Bigfoot mystery is. Matt was trying to carry on an intelligent conversation amidst the backdrop of laughter.
I think the general public's reaction to this is pretty predictable. Speaking for myself, when I have shared my strange encounters I typically get the "Alright where's the punchline" look. Whenever the topic comes up at work I roll with the laughter. The popular perspective doesn't have to match up with reality. Sometimes it's better to keep quiet about something until more objective evidence is formed.
With that being said, I do think that some of the audio clips that have been recorded could have been interesting to include in this segment. What about the hundreds of report submissions on BFRO itself?
I think Matt was a bit flustered in the interview, probably due to the backdrop of laughter and comical questioning. Matt did do a little bit of double talk. At 1st he claimed that he "had really good stuff", and then when asked to share it to the world he said "we don't have really good stuff yet". (accompanyment of laughter in the background) I can understand what he was getting at, but his delivery came across like he was just imagining there were bigfoot(s). This interview was not taken too seriously, and I think the scientific part of this was just considered a joke.
I could sympathize with Matt. I doubt that many people would have fared well in the given circumstances.
With all the publicity that this venture is recieving I wonder if they are even going to get a encounter of the bigfoot kind.This place might even be swarmming with people who are very curious.MM should have waited after the trip to speak about this area publicly.You know if he wants to turn this bigfoot thing into a buissness well its his right too.I am starting to feel comfortable about being in the woods and to being able to guide my self.My skills need improving but I am learning.But I can also understand why folks are willing to pay someone to guide them.also MM has collected a whole lot of reports through out the years that one would love to have access too especially those up to date encounters where the creature may still in the vicinity.I just think anouncing this like it has and was is a bad idea and should not have been done until after the trip so that they could have had a controlled enviorment.
Mark A
Mark A
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