I used the search engine but became lost in a mess of non-related texas bigfoot topics. I apologies if there has been previous post, but its new to me so i'm sure it will be new to some others. It seems to be a very legitimate claim. I'm curious though, i know it is from the coast to coast show, but the guy says he gave Art a map of the location, his info? has anyone pursued this at all?

here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4sQePBTMAU

p.s don't mind the pics.... and i didn't put this together.
Click to view attachment




edited to correct spelling of name in title - Vol

Ok here is a point, at eight and a half feet a upright primate at 500 lbs is real skinny,




An eyewitness may say 500 and it is a legitimate sighting because judging wieght is not something they are trained to do but three men hunting by trade would know what a carcus weights and they said it was heavy not skinny.

A foot difference between the animals he estimates them at only a hundred pound difference. Gorillas dont have that much hieght difference and yet the males have up to two hundred pounds difference or more and only inches taller than females.



If it was real, and was "heavy built"then it had to weight more A thousand pounds would not be to big built but even 800
Elk have to be quartered to be manhandaled and three guys moved two Sas's around. and buried it

In a lot of cases, dogs get scared around Sas's i didn't hear this in the story.


Again the guy has the proof, but wont release do t this or that, until payed or scared of murder charges or what, How many times we hear that before.

500 lbs is heavy to most folks..............

First heard this story from the TBRC people several years back, so they must have been connacted too......any comments wolly?

Yep this story has been mentioned here and discussed a number of times. The man's name is "Bugs" not "Bubbs" and The incident allegedly occured in the early 1970s, with the bodies buried somewhere near a river. So we're talking 30+ years they've been buried. I don't think it would be possible to find any evidence to detect the burial site (if it exists) without the map.

I found this BMI (body mass index) calcutator.

http://health.msn.com/dietfitness?vendor=g...y+weight+height

According to it, if you are about 8'5" and are 500 pounds then you're obese. Now that is for humans, but I wouldn't say that a squatch would be to far off from that either. They are wild and are naturally going to be much more physically fit then us, but i still think the height to weight ratio can apply. As far as the gorillas go, i can say it is pretty obvious why there is such a weight difference between adult males and females. They have totally different body types. During adolesents they are pretty much the same but upon adulthood the males become much bigger and stockier then the females. Now for our squatches there isn't to much evidence saying that males are generally alot bigger then the females. I think it is more comparible to humans, where men are typically bigger but not 200 lbs bigger. in most cases the men aren't even 100lbs pounds. so i think that the comparison the hunter gave about the differnce in weight between the male and female is probably pretty accurate. Another thing, there wasn't any dogs with them from what i understand. The bird dog that he is refering to is the name of his friend i believe.

that sucks, but your totally right. 30 years is a long time next to a creek bed. If he said desert, i would be a bit more hopefull.

it makes sense though with what the guys says, but what i don't get is why, if he is that concerned about getting arrested for murder if they turned out to be more human then we have all thought, that he would give a map to a radio show host. wouldn't you be slightly worried that this host would give it to someone to go dig it up? if there's a map, theres a way! someone has got to know Art Bell.

According to "Buggs" original story and the details of that, the reason why they buried them was when they first got a good look at them they looked incredibly human, much more so than what an ape would be. He and his partners were afraid that they had in fact shot and killed some "Mentally Ill" or "Feral" humans. That's why the concern of possible murder charges.

As far as Art Bell releasing that map.. during one of the previous shows he had done with a "Bigfoot Researcher", and unfortunately I don't remember who it was at this time, "Buggs" told Art and this Researcher he was willing to give them the map and that this researcher could go dig the bodies up, or find what evidence remained of them. Between that time and the date when the map was to be supplied "Buggs'" wife pleaded with him not to do it. The reason being that since "Buggs" is now elderly and his health is not that great his wife didn't want him spending what years he may have left in prison, and she didn't want to spend the years she has left without him. Art made a public promise that he would not under any circumstances release that map until after the death of "Buggs" if he was given the map. Art only has his word to stand by, and breaking of that word would also destroy his entire career. Art provides a safe environment for people who wish to bring stories of this type forward to the general public. IF Art were to break his word, his sources of these types of stories would dry up overnight, nobody would trust him. It would be a display of contempt not only towards his guests, but towards his listening audience as well, it won't happen regardless of pressure or money offered. It's just going to be a wait and see game until the time comes that "Buggs" makes that transition out of this life, if the map will be produced and if anything is found.

Wow, that was quite the story. I really believe this guy, you can just hear in his voice how bad he feels for having killed these BF, and how afraid he was that they were humans. I would love to talk to this guy and try to convince him to let me dig up those bones. What great proof that would be.

Would like to clear up some things people seem to be confused about.

1. They are estimating height and weight. Not using a tape measure and scale both could be off by quit a bit.

2. He did say they were very heavy.

3. You can't use a BMI on an animal like BF who would have a bone structure at least twice as dense as a human's.

4. The difference between the sexs of gorillas is all in the upper body mass since they don't walk upright, BF would have less difference since upper and lower mass would be distributed more evenly.

So Robert Wadlow in that pic is Obease he is 8'8'' and 500 lbs.


These BMI charts say Brad pitt is fat and George Clooney is Obease. When I was 4% body fat those charts said I was 50 pounds over weight.

Know why those charts are used, so Life insurance and health insurers can charge you more for being overweight, It was insurance companies that came up with them. I was in the Marines, Recon Marines the fittiest bunch of guys youll ever meet. Know what one time for fun we took that BMI and messured everybody in our platoon, one guy came in as "fit" acording to that BMI.


500 lbs is heavy weight for men to lift, but I do not see any ape being 8.5 feet 500 lbs and running they would be to weak , I can understand a visual estimate being 500 due to not being trained but when they had to man handle it sorry, I am a beleiver in a lot of BF claims, this one sounds like it needs more proof.

It is possible, that the men did shoot something but with some men the storys get better with the telling or even a sincere over estemation, lets say they shot a 7 foot male say 600 lbs and a six foot female or 6.6 weighting much less and maybe weremaybe a brother sister in adolesence. I am not totally dismising the story, I just think some facts are wrong in estimation ,guess or what ever.


Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin disagreed over the Size of Patty, doesn't mean one or bother werre Lying, may mean they just estimated or remembered wrong. Humans do that.


Nothing that we can Verifiy this story with, not the location the guy doesn't reveil to anybody here who could confirm who he is. Even just one person on here or someone in the know to verify would be nice. Every possible way to check the story is blocked, he wont reveal because it might be murder, but yet he has two bodies that could prove the existance of the greatest animal on the planet . Sounds very Bicardish and I would hope that at least a couple sereous researchers could meet with this guy witht he promise of confedentiality

Why do I believe this guy?

Humm I gotta wonder here how much trouble Mr. Bell could be in, if bugs passes, the map then leads to a body, that is later determined to be human....... There is no statute of limitations on murder, and one would wonder if Mr. Bell has made himself an accessory after the fact for knowingly keeping this potential information from the authorities.

Remember, bugs initial reaction was he had shot a human, feral or whatever, it was still human.

Sorry, but that thought just crossed my mind.

hey melissa & everyone good late afternoon wow i totaly agree with your above replys regarding this certain bigfoot situation which seems to growing daily full of opinions please keep them comeing ok. thanks bill this thread is definetly verrrry interesting.....

Buggs certainly did sound believable, but damn, that's still one BIGGGG story to swallow. I just don't know. My uneducated guess is they shot a couple of wanderers by mistake and the B/F story is a way to soothe his conscious. Either that or he's one heck of a good actor. Or, they did shoot 2 B/F's and that's why WE can't find 'em, lol.

I'd really like Dan Chamberlain to comment on this story. He has real life experience in this type of thing, not to mention he IS one of the sharper tools in the shed. Dan??????

No one asked this man the hard questions, like a researcher on here would do, even the guy critisizing him beleived it.

Melissa makes a very good point. In which case my question would be, why aren't the cops beating on someones door as we speak? The guy admitted to killing two of something, possibly human according to his own statement. Surly the authorities would like a look at that map if this is a possible homicide case. Would that not involve much more than a court order to have the map turned over to investigators?

Rob Mcconell was discussing this with Robert W. Morgan on The X-Zone last week. Mcconell has had people looking at maps & going over the story & think they have narrowed down the search area & the local sherrif dept. has been notified. But they both feel it's a hoax & so do I.

Well, that all depends on where Mr. Bell is.. When you cross state lines, things get a little different. But, I still wonder why law enforcement is not curious.. Which makes me think the local authorities in the area, already know the story - and know its a hoax.

What some wont do for attention.

Hoax it must be.
I don't see any police department turning a blind eye at what could turn out to be a double homicide investigation. And as you've pointed out, statute of limitations has no effect on such a case.
I agree, they (the police) obviously know something that we don't considering the fact that this information didn't just come to light last week.

Edit....clarity

Melissa on the original show that "Buggs" offered to send the map to Art Bell, that concern was discussed. Art was concerned that he in fact could be considered as an accessory, or to withholding evidence. He said on that show that he would not accept the map unless after consulting with his attorneys they could assure him that he would not be held accountable. I know others have said that Art has the map, but personally I have never heard that he received it, only that he was open to that possibility if he would not get into trouble.

As far as why the local authorities haven't shown an interest in it, it could be that no specific enough details of the location were ever given to say in whose jurisdiction it would be, and "Buggs" certainly isn't giving those details out. The only thing alleged is it's somewhere in Texas. If a Law Enforcement Agency receives a report of a possible murder, what kind of evidence do they need before investigating it? A missing person report? Eye Witnesses? "Buggs" was NOT the only person there that night, he was with a group of other hunters. According to "Buggs" they were all good friends at the time, but after this incident they all split apart and nobody talks to any of the others. "Buggs" is the only one to come forward to say anything about something or someone being shot that night. If a law officer questioned say the other five alleged witnesses, and all five said... "Oh that Buggs he's crazy he thinks he shot a bigfoot but he's just joshing people..." Would they persue it spending countless tax dollars and possibly wasting time based on the rantings of a possible lunatic? I doubt they pay any more attention to this claim than if someone claimed to have shot an alien they saw get out of a UFO and buried it along the river somewhere too, even if they claimed that alien looked human.

Well, questioning witnesses that may be uncooperative is one thing, but having information that a map may exist that could possible show the burial place of two human homicide victims is in my opinion enough to at least warrant some kind of investigation.

So your saying there is a possibility that Art Bell may have never taken possession of this map?

Lets say he did, and I was the sheriff in the city where he resides, I would send over investigators to question Mr. Bell. If through the course of that questioning a map was found to exist and was acquired from Mr. Bell either willingly or through court order, and that map led to a burial site outside of my specific jurisdiction, I would only have to contact the office of the proper authorities in who's jurisdiction it falls. That agency would then begin a process of finding the location and initiate the retrieval process from the site. If remains are found, and found to be human, he would be charged in that jurisdiction no matter where in the country or state of Texas he now calls home.

At least I would hope thats how it would work. I would also hope that any police agency would not take the claims of anyone admitting to a possible double homicide too lightly. He specifically said they buried the bodies because he thought they were human. Its their job to investigate these kinds of claims whether it deals with a possible misidentified bigfoot or occupant of a ufo simply by the fact that he admitted to possibly killing and burying human murder victims.

The rantings of a lunatic? Could very well be.
There could also be two homicide victims buried by a river in the Texas panhandle for the past 30 years, and someones conscience is beating them to death of ones own acts or motives.

Does Bell even live in the USA anymore? I thought he married a young Asian Gal and moved overseas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua81Vz9vG1c

I don't recall him ever taking possession of the map, although some have stated he did. I've sent an email to Mr. Bell and hopefully he'll give us the fact one way or another in regards to map being or not being in his possession. You would think that they'd look into it, but this story has been around in the public for a number of years now. The description of the "things" he shot doesn't really fit what a normal human would look like being hair covered and between 6 and 7 feet tall and would sound more like a bigfoot. We also don't know what kind of reputation "Buggs" has in his hometown, maybe he's well known for telling tall tales, or the town drunk, or a big practical joker.

I'm neither a lawyer nor in the legal profession so I have no idea what amount or kind of evidence one would need to start a murder investigation. I'm not sure someone saying it's possible they may have, with absolutely no evidence to suggest any kind of murder or crime other than someone's claim is sufficient. If they did, and went to his house demanding the map and he said, there is no map it's all a hoax, what could they do? They couldn't force him to produce a map he claims doesn't exist. They can't charge him with murder because there's no evidence suggesting any murder was ever committed. His ex-buddies all say he's goofy. You can't thow him in jail for the rest of his life or until he talks if he claims to them that it never happened. Besides that we all know him as "Buggs" I don't think anyone knows his real name or real location, just what he's told us and Art. So who would Art or anyone else even report it to?

Anyway I see someone mentioned Robert Morgan above, and I'm thinking it was in fact him that was on Art Bell's show the night "Bugs" mentioned the offer of the map.

As a matter of fact it was.. here's the RECAP of the show he appeared on when "Bugs" called in:



http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/01/15.html

WmRoy yes, he moved to the Phillipines for about a year then recently moved back to his home in Pahrump Nevada.

true that. word is bond.

I don't think you've got a good handle on this thing's suppossed mass. I 100% agree with Commando here. And I mean even besides that BMI chart being total complete utter inapplicable bullshit. (At 5' 10.5", in fighting shape at 197 with baggy size 36 pants, I came up overweight, almost obese. Please.) There's no way something of the size commonly described for a Sasquatch only weighs 500lbs. That is a total misunderstanding of mass. A silverback mountain gorilla weighs around 500 lbs, and they go about, what, 5' tall? We are talking massively larger than this.

I'm not saying this person's story is illegitmate because he can't judge mass per se. However it does give me pause. People see professional linemen at 300lb+ and think, "Hey, that's big". And it is. But add two feet of height and who knows how much girth and you need to start thinking exponents, not multipliers. One of the items that rings truest about my pet thorn in my skeptic side, Monkeyboy63's encounter report, is how accurately he describes the figure's mass when he saw it. And, in fact, one of the few things that seemed to initially lend credence to Commando's own report was the same thing: mass. If these things exist as described, they are massive. That fact should strike a witness, possibly above all else.

Commando also had a good picture that could be used here as example, but damned if I can't find it. He had a picture of a silverback next to a human chap, then blew up the gorilla to a larger size. I think he blew the gorilla's height up way too much for that topic, but it's a good example of the kind of thing we're talking about here. That human sized gorilla goes about 500lbs. If he was three feet taller...

Commando, maybe you could post that picture here for illustration? And maybe shrink the gorilla a hair while you're at it?

Its hard to get past the fact that this Buggs character said he buried the two because they looked human. To me thats an admission of guilt.

Theres always the angle that if something is indeed buried where he says it is, it could turn out to be the remains of two modern day humans, and look nothing like his Bigfoot description at all.

I agree that if an investigation led to the fact that no map exists, then there is an obvious dead end with that lead. But I would argue that an investigation would have to be initiated to even get to this point. To turn a blind eye and dismiss his claim out right with no investigation of the supposed map in my opinion would be unacceptable. When this Buggs does eventually pass on, and a dig ensues at the specified site and human remains are found, I'd hate to be the chief of the local authority who's agency was responsible for dropping the ball on a homicide case that the perpetrator has been publicly talking about for several years.

Bell and Morgon have supposedly talked to Buggs via e-mail and phone, why couldn't he be traced?
A good police investigation would dig up a hell of a lot more than just the map if it even exists. But if the police find this of no interest, then I'm truly baffled as to why. In my opinion they must have some piece of information unknown to us that they feel makes this claim nothing more than a hoax.

I don't believe Human eyes give off 'eye shine'...............

I'm not convinced that BF would have to weigh in at some insane weight.... look at hogzilla 2.......... right over 1,000 lbs. The guy said the thing was heavy, not heavily built! There is a big difference.... also big could just mean tall..... anyways, let's now consider the amount of adrenline this dude and his pals would have had coursing through their veins..... and I wouldn't put too much 'weight' on their abilities to judge 'weight' at that moment in time. Pretty much the same reason I take most estimates of height (in this story as well) with a grain of salt. Under stress our preceptions of reality just don't always measure up TO reality......... we get a bit excited........... and things get distorted......

I don't know if it's real or not, and I doubt we'll ever know........

Really..... this is good old boy Texas, where if you know the right people, anything can be put under the table so to speak.

And who do you think reported this to the police in that area, not Bugs? No one, would be my guess.

And if they did, what do you think the reaction would be from the police after you tell them it could be 2 BF.

So, to assume that they already know, is a hugh stretch.

An if any one was listening to the YouTube interview Art Bell CLEARLY says he has the MAP.

Just some Clarity...




You have never taken a picture with RED eye???? And besides they aren't HUMAN




I don't know, that sounds more like an admission of FEAR to me.

If anything gives me pause about his story, it would be the size he describes to Art Bell. I have drug a 300 pound buck through some pretty easy terrain and it took a long time and was very exhausting. So if these BF were as long and heavy as he described, can you imagine the effort it took to get them out of 30 feet of heavy brush. And then move them again to bury them. I don't know if 3 men could even do this at 500 pounds apiece

I think that there are two things that must be taken into consideration.
1) This is a radio show that is done for the purpose of profit - not science. Therefore, entertainment is what the bottom line is all about. Truth has nothing to do with entertainment.
2) There are thousands of wackos who look for any form of media outlet to tell their tall tales and whatever else gets them off. This show is designed to make money from encouraging those wackos to tell their stories.

Listening to this show for entertainment purposes is lots of fun. Anything more than that is misguided - IMHO.

The only person who would even think about prosecuting Art Bell on this would be Mike Nifong (sarcasm). To be charged as an accessory, one must know a crime has been committed. I'm pretty sure no one but Bugs actually knows this. Also, Bell would have to be acting on Bugs behalf to hinder his prosecution, which he is not doing.

NOT THE SAME.............. go out and have your buddy stand off 40 yards or so and hit him with a spot light. I don't think you're going to see anything.......... we tried this as kids and it didn't work......... and my point was that THEY (if they do exsist) can't be human if you're getting eye shine. And I agree, it sounds to me like he was scared.........

The eyes of nocturnal animals brightly reflect various colors of light in flash photography due to the presence of a special layer behind the retina, the tapetum lucidum, that reflects light back into the retina to improve their vision in low light conditions.

Humans do not have a tapetum lucidum and instead light reaches the blood-rich region at the back of the eye and is reflected back through the eye as red-eye. Unlike the brightly shining eyes of nocturnal animals, which are visible by flashlight or car headlights, human red-eye is only visible in close flash photography.

edit to add:
Here's a link to another BF site. I didn't spend much time there, but they do address the issue of eye shine and there are additional links.

http://unifiedworlds.com/eyeshine.htm

Thanks Commando.

Also please note: If you mark the gorilla's nipples as eyes, his sternum as nose, his torso appears to be Wilfred Brimley. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.

Fearful of arrest and prosecution? I would be too if I were guilty of a crime.

So lets assume Bell has the map & Buggs passes, what then? If Bell lives overseas who will he trust to follow up on this? I think the main reason law enforcement is not actively involved is because they are swamped with here and now cases. If the bodies were to be found and were determined to be human then they would probably try to find the remaining hunting partners. It will be interesting to see how it will play out if it ever does.

Who would have to report anything? The guys been talking about it publicly for several years. Should the police dismiss this and wait for someone to call?

And their reaction should be one of dismissal because Bigfoot was mentioned? They should dismiss the fact that he said the bodies might be that of humans and he buried them for fear of prosecution?

i'm not quite sure that people are truly understanding the way a BMI works. It gives an "average" weight compared to height ratio. In other words it is merely a reference to go by when trying to determine the height and weight of an individual. no where does it say that it is entirely accurate. So for you to say that you're 5'10 and 197 and in fighting shape. Well the reason it comes back with obese is cause it doesn't take into account for any type of muscle mass nor does it take into account for age, frame, build or actually fat. it is strictly an average, slightly on the thinner side according to todays american standard.

here is a link to another that seems to give a better brakedown after your results.

http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

Okay, so why aren't the Police checking this out? If you're saying they're not checking it out because it's a hoax.......... how do they know? You can't know unless you check it out............ so .......... are you saying they've likely already checked into it and the local law thinks the guys a loon.........

Why would someone who genuinely thought he'd shot two people call an AM radio show in order to purge his guilt-ridden conscience, knowing that millions of people, including possible law-enforcement officials, would be listening? Nonetheless, I still don't understand why somebody hasn't got in touch with Bell to question him about this Bugs guy. For all they know, Bugs further contacted Bell via email or something and gave him more information. Am I missing something? They (the local P.D.) must just think a.) he's full of crap; or b.) they don't have any missing-persons' reports that match the scenario Bugs gave, so who cares? Can't prove there's been a murder w/o a body. It will/would be embarassing, though, if, one day down the road, human skeletal remains ARE found in the forest where Bugs said they'd be; THEN, somebody with a badge is going to be in deep caca.

At least someone understands what I'm trying to say.

Unless Bugs is:
1) Completely Lying...........
OR
2) Lying about seeing eye shine..............

Then, whatever he saw (and possibly killed) was not human............. that is if he saw (and killed) anything at all..............

Two things should be noted here:

1. Art Bell has moved back to the US. He lives in Nevada again.

2. Wilford Brimley is one of the greatest character actors of all time.

I work in a restaurant and get off work late some nights and I enjoy listening to C2C. I don't think I can say it any better than this:

Maybe...but I think the fear he killed a human is what I meant.

If this was where I worked and I heard such a story - I would find the time to go up to this guy's place and have a chat with him.

Do we know that the local law enforcement 'did't' go and talk to him?

Well The standard BMI is way off and again it was designed by insurance companies. the taller you are in it the thinner you have to be. Acording to that BMI I would have to be about 210 or less I am a body builder and never could weight that.

It had Robert Wadlow as beign Obease in the extream and yet he was painfully skinny