Reading through some of the old Track Records from Ray Crowe and rediscovered this little gem (#21):

Report from Rich Grumley, Director, Calif. Bigfoot Organization.
In 1980/1981, I was working as a security guard on a high tension tower
project here in Ca. I met a man who was a "cat skinner" operating a
bulldozer, leveling off the pads where each of these high tension towers
was to go. I noted on his pickup truck 25-30 decals of places he had
been hunting and introduced myself. In conversation I mentioned Bigfoot
and he told me, "about the mid to late 1970's he was doing a little
poaching (with the Forestry Official's permission in a locked and gated
area near Bishop, ca., they had given him a key so he could go in any
time he wanted)." This particular time the gate was still locked (as it
always was), he let himself in with his 4-wheel drive pickup to the area
known as Four Points. He drove over a hill and there to his surprise
were Department of the Interior and Bureau of land Management men all in
their "Smokey The Bear" outfits with guns searching a campground, the
hills, mountains, roads, etc. They grabbed this hunter, took his deer
rifle away from him and questioned him for 7-8 hours as to what he was
doing there. The local forestry officials identified him as a trusted
friend and he was let go, but told to "never come back." He had determined
during his interrogation that the reason the BLM and DI were
there in force was that a Bigfoot creature had gone through there the
day before and had torn up the campground; had turned over a "large"
trash container (of the type you find behind large department stores),
that no man can even begin to move, and had killed several people. Over
the years passed the story to several, in fact, "quite a few" Bigfoot
researchers, but "no one" was able to come up with one single "clue."
Then in early to middle 1991, a young attorney by the name of Matt M.,
who is also interested in investigating the Bigfoot mystery, called the
C.B.F.O.'s hotline (800) 800-1950, to tell me that he had heard that
story several years ago and it had "always" stuck with him. When he was
doing some BF research in the Bishop, Ca., area in 1989-90 he met a
former policeman who said that he was on the Bishop police Force in the
mid to late 1970's. Matt related the foregoing story of Bigfoot to the
ex-police officer of Bishop, and he confirmed it! He told Matt that the
story was the talk of "all" of the law enforcement agencies in that area
at the time, but that they were under very tight security to not say
anything about the incident and the related deaths.


Lots of questions concerning this one. Just wondering if anyone has heard of this or has any additional info? First and formost, it would have been all over the media. Was there any mention of this in CA at the time (and possibly attributed to some other cause)?

My personal opinion is it sounds like a bunch of hooey. Funny, the lawyer in the story named as Matt M. and Matt Moneymaker, who by some rumors has been referred to as an alleged lawyer.



One source that refers to him as a lawyer.

I also doubt the Forestry Department has the authorization to give permission to anyone to poach wildlife.

I also see Bobbie Short has a copy of the report you refer to on her site, Posted Here

The last part of that story also has me thinking that way when it says:



If in fact they were under strict "ORDERS" not to say anything he wouldn't have said anything to the alleged lawyer either after simply being asked. I've worked for a couple of companies in the past where I was told not to divulge any company secrets or specifics regarding manufacturing processes etc. They required us to sign an affidavit to that affect and if we did so we would be held liable for giving out that information during a specified number of years after we left employ there. One company was for five years the other ten. If this is a murder cover-up I'm sure the time period would be infinite. I also Highly Doubt the Department of Interior or BLM would ever mention specifically a "Bigfoot".

Also in the report it says:

(emphasis mine)

Nowhere does it say "THEY SAID" it was bigfoot, simply this person determined, which could translate to "His Impression". Impressions can be wrong. Also the fact is the person who told this story KNEW the person he was telling it to was interested in "Bigfoot". Working as a "Cat Skinner" running a bulldozer in the wilderness requires lots of hours working in areas all alone. I have little doubt people that do might just say anything to keep a conversation going especially if it's the first person they've talked to for any length of time in who knows how long. Besides, it would probably give him something to chuckle about during all those long boring hours in the weeks to come running the dozer.

The only "forestry officials" that I ever ran across wanted to take my keys, not give me any.

The only connection this story may have to bigfoot is they both have a strong smell.

Yes,I have to agree. Too many funky aspects to that story. Good tale, but nothing more. All my own opinion of course.

Seems to be very fishy to me.

But if this story is indeed true, think about what it means. Not only do we have "rogue" sasquatches on occasion killing people, but the forestry officials know bigfoot exists. Why would they search for an animal they don't believe in?

IF there were people killed - there would be no way to cover it up for any length of time.
Family members do not just write off their relatives. They want to know exactly what happened and where.
If they don't get satisfactory answers - they keep at it until they do. The media is usually more than happy to publicize their stories and concerns.
Moregon makes an excellent point - why in the heck would some ex-police officer talk to some person he had never met before and spill the beans if there was supposedly such tight security???
I give this story a big

I read in the older BF casebook of a trapper reported to have been killed by a BF

Maybe that is the real job that forestry workers are sworn to undertake. This protection of wildlife business is just a cover for their real job of protecting us from Bigfoot!

Drew you may have stumbled onto something there... it's probably time to call in Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith...

Click to view attachment



I doubt that's the case since the Forestry Workers, if you're talking about workers for the "Department of Forestry" take care of the trees, not the wild animals. Here's a link to Oregon't Department of Forestry website that explains what they do and what they are responsible for. http://egov.oregon.gov/ODF/

Proof that the story is hooey: how did all of these soon-to-be-murdered campers get into the campground if the gate was always locked?!

Agreed

Yeah, this story is tough to beleive just because of all the cooperation it would take to maintain the cover. I would say, however, that most folks who have a family member mauled to death in the woods would most likely accept a bear attack or a mountain lion as a logical explanation. What interests me though is if there were incidents of predation or territorial aggression like this wouldn’t there be more examples that leaked from legitimate sources?

Is that the Bauman story? Two trappers in the woods after beaver. A series of close encounters that unnerve the men until they decide to leave the area. The men seperate for a brief period, Bauman returns to the camp to find the other man dead of a broken neck with fang-marks in the throat???

I believe that story came from a book Teddy Roosevelt wrote about his life in the west. My understanding is that the context of the story in the book was of Roosevelt passing along a story he'd heard around a campfire one evening.

While I've always found it an interesting story....its standing as "proof" has gotten a lot weaker to me.

No, i got the report out of an older casebook

Damn, good point! How did I miss that!

I usually don't catch things like that, either. Maybe I've been watching too much CSI!

I have posted this story below a couple of times under different topics but given the drift of this thread I will do it again here. This is a story that only ran 3 or 4 days in the SF Bay Area. It had no legs despite a gruesome mystery. Obviously no-one ever figured out what happened to this man, and the local officials buried it. Why ? Laziness is certainly one possibility. Where is CSI when we need them? or the UC Davis animal genetic forensic lab ? (whose Director bragged in an NPR Fresh Air interview last March 2006 that her lab is often used for crime solving where animal genetic material is relevant -- and yes she dismissively answered a question about strangest request she ever had and it was to test a BF hair --big laugh , she refused to take it seriously-- you can go to NPR website Fresh Air March 2006 and find the interview -- I posted this too somewhere on this board last year)

Here is the Elko story again:

Here are a couple of newspaper articles from November 1999 published in the Contra Costa county Times regarding a Walnut Creek, California man who disappeared in an extremely remote area North of Winnemucca Nevada. Eventually his skull, "picked clean" was found and you can see the various conclusions. I was never satisfied with the investigation when this happened and think the authorities just wanted to close the matter. Lots of questions went unaswered. The area is about 9000 foot elevation, not much tree cover and a very long way from anything. I have no idea if any BF sightings in this area (between NEVand ID) but who would be there to see him anyway? The report is inetersting generally, but it is also pertinent to how long remains will last if not buried....gone in days, except for the skull, watch and bloody rags.

Contra Costa Times (Walnut Creek, CA)
November 10, 1999
Section: news
Edition: Final
Page: A01


COUGAR MAY HAVE SLAIN MAN
Kristi Belcamino

Sheriff's deputies in Elko, Nev., are searching a rocky area for signs of a Walnut Creek man they say may have been attacked and killed by a mountain lion.

Officers found his torn, bloody clothing not far from his four-wheel-drive vehicle.
When Dennis Dorsey, 49, left Walnut Creek on Oct. 10 to go camping, his family didn't know exactly where he was headed but believed it was to Idaho. His wife, Debbie, last spoke to him Oct. 11.

Dorsey, who formerly owned Wheels 2000 in Concord, recently helped his wife become the co-owner of a furniture business in Lafayette. Chateau Collections opened two days before he left on his camping trip.

After Dorsey did not return home Oct. 20, as expected, his family and friends reported him missing. He last used his credit card in northern Nevada a few days after he left Walnut Creek, but that is where the trail went cold until Friday.

A group hunting for desert bighorn sheep found Dorsey's 1999 silver Isuzu Trooper, said Elko County Undersheriff Steve Bishop. The Trooper's light switch was on and the keys were in the ignition. Dorsey's camping gear, a handgun and a supply of spoiled food also were inside. The vehicle did not appear to be stuck and still had gasoline.

It was found on a jeep trail 11 miles off a main road near a small, mining town called Midas, Bishop said. The area, known as Owhyee Bluffs, is in the high desert and is covered with rocks, sagebrush and other shrubs. It is so rugged it took a deputy 90 minutes to drive the 11 miles to where the Trooper was found, Bishop said.

Police searched for Dorsey on Sunday and Monday, aided by a helicopter.

They found Dorsey's ripped and bloody clothing Monday about 500 yards from the Trooper. They found his pants, underwear, socks, a shoe, some money and his wristwatch and dried blood on rocks nearby, Bishop said.

Deputies are looking into the possibility that Dorsey was attacked and killed by a mountain lion, since the area is known as a hunting ground for the cats.

On Tuesday, a mountain lion hunter brought his dogs into the area to help searchers find lion dens, Bishop said.

It is very rare for a mountain lion to attack a human, particularly a man, said Jim Swanson, a senior wildlife biologist with the Department of Fish and Game regional office in Yountville. Dorsey was 5-foot-9 and weighed 185.

In April 1994, a mountain lion mauled and killed a Placerville woman who was jogging. Later that year, a San Diego woman was attacked and killed in a state park.

On Oct. 19, a jogger on a hiking trail near Santa Fe, N.M., spent 20 minutes fending off an attacking 100-pound cougar.

Joggers are particularly vulnerable, Swanson said. When a lion sees someone running, it triggers an instinctive attack reaction, he said.

Swanson said he has seen an increase in encounters between people and mountain lions over the past few years because there has been an increase in the population. In 1990, voters in California banned hunting of the animal. In addition, Swanson said, people are moving to and spending time in areas that mountain lions call home.

"Twenty years ago, you didn't find people jogging in forests," he said.

Between 1890 and 1990, there were 53 cougar attacks recorded in the United States and Canada, mostly involving children. Ten of those cases were fatal.

Kristi Belcamino covers crime, police and public safety. Reach her at 925-945-4782 or kbelcamino@cctimes.com.

Contra Costa Times (Walnut Creek, CA)
November 11, 1999
Section: news
Edition: Final
Page: A01


SKULL COULD BE THAT OF WALNUT CREEK MAN
Kristi Belcamino

Searchers in Elko, Nev., found a skull Wednesday they believe is that of a missing Walnut Creek man who may have been killed by a mountain lion, authorities said.

Dennis Dorsey, 49, left Walnut Creek on Oct. 10 to go camping and was reported missing after he didn't return home as expected Oct. 20.
Elko County Sheriff Neil Harris say deputies believe the skull is Dorsey's, but confirmation is not expected until Friday because of the Veterans Day holiday.

Dorsey last spoke to his wife Oct. 11. Records show Dorsey used his credit card last in northern Nevada a few days after he left Walnut Creek, but that is where the trail went cold until Friday.

Hunters came across the 1999 Isuzu Trooper that Dorsey was driving on a jeep trail some 11 miles off a main road in a remote, rocky area. The four-wheel drive's light switch was on and the keys were in the ignition. Dorsey's camping gear, a handgun and supply of rotted food also were inside. The vehicle did not appear to be stuck and still had gasoline.

On Monday, deputies searching the high desert area found ripped and bloodied clothing identified as Dorsey's about 500 yards from the Trooper. They found pieces of his pants, underwear, socks, a shoe, some money and his Rolex wristwatch, along with dried blood on the rocky ground.

The area, called Owhyee Bluffs, is home to both mountain lions and coyotes. Harris said tear marks found on Dorsey's shredded clothing look like those made by lions, and pieces of jeans and buttons were found in coyote feces nearby, he said.

Searchers hunting for signs of Dorsey on Wednesday found a skull that Harris described as "somewhat fresh and picked clean."

Harris said investigators aren't sure whether Dorsey was killed by the animals.

"It is entirely possible, because there are a lot of caves in the area, that he was climbing around to look in caves and do some exploring and that he fell and possibly even died from the fall, and the animals got to him afterward," Harris said.

Friends of Dorsey's wife and two children said Wednesday the family was in "deep mourning."

Dorsey is the former owner of Wheels 2000, a Concord auto dealership.

Is that something that could be shared in this forum?

Here's the trapper story: www.bigfootencounters.com/classics/bauman.htm

That is the Bauman story.

I read that as the campground was in the general area, but was accessed by another route. The locked road was a secondary or back way into the area. By the way, does anyone know if there is a campground in that general area?

Exactly !!

This story is a bit suspicious to me for several reasons.

I live in Bishop, California and have camped, hiked, and four-wheeled on back roads (some with locked gates) all over this area for over 40 years, yet I have never heard of the “Four Points” area mentioned “in a locked and gated area near Bishop, ca…”

At the time this story took place (1970s), the Bishop Field office of the BLM only had about 12 employees and one armed ranger. And why would Department of the Interior (National Park Service) employees be on the scene when it is a 5 hour hike by rugged mountain trail to the wilderness entrance of nearest Nat’l Park (Kings Canyon)?

I know a lot of the old time LEOs; Bishop P.D., BLM, and U.S. Forest Service officers in this area and none have ever mentioned any kind of wild animal attack that “killed several people.”

Believe me, you couldn’t keep an event of this magnitude quiet in a remote, small town, like Bishop.

Point of information to offer this thread:

"Murderous bigfoot" is a slight contradiction. We ascribe murder to one specific species when they kill another creature of the same species -- and, well, that's us, Homo sapiens sapiens. I'm not sure whether this is splitting hairs, but "murderous bigfoot" treads more into sticky philosophical implications that would invalidate such a claim.

If a sasquatch killed a human (deliberately, accidentally, or whatever), and this was declared a murder, it would suggest that that sasquatch functions by some of the same basic moral codes that humans largely recognize (a product of human culture, really). To the sasquatch, it was a kill. It might be more, but we have no way of knowing what other cognitive motivations accompanied that kill.

But for whatever cultural dimension that sasquatches might share with one another (or even a lack of culture entirely, though this might be particularly hard to prove), that dimension would not intersect with human culture.

If I'm not making any sense, let me know. Thanks.

Whoever originated that dramatic tale most likely was a Godzilla fan with some fictional writing skills. There are several aspects to the tale that simply are not believable.

Has anyone cross checked local law enforcement records for that area? They will have record of any murders in that area and timeframe.... especially if we are dealing with "multiple" deaths as the report indicates.... Until that is shown to be true, I also am erring on the side of "Phooey"

Not to beat a dead horse but some of the best stories related to Bigfoot are never told. I know for a fact that a tree falling crew from tuolumne county hit one of these creatures off highway 4 near dorrinton ca while on their way inone morning to fall trees. it damaged the truck a crew cab ford and then got up and disaapeared into the woods. 2 of the people in the truck are life long friends from childhood and swear by what happened. The driver was the son of a 4th generation logger whom I hunt with every year and to this day he has a hard time recalling the incident. Point is alot of stories go unreported or covered up for whatever rerason. More go this route than those that go reported. I grew up in toulumne Co Ca a place with a huge tridition of reports and i can tell you right now i know of 2 dozen crediable people who work in the woods who have an incedent they chose not to report. Loggers and the like. Some even have pic to back their claims but will never report it because of the establishment that is out there.