Has anyone seen or done any comparison studies of tree/limb breaks of differing origins.... ice, wind, big assed monkey hands. If it is a common occurance in association with BF activity, it might be nice to know what we are looking for... if there are any telltale signs to look for other than hairs or bloody hand prints.
Any thoughts?
Full Version: Tree Breaks
Ice, wind, and snow snap many trees exposed on mountain sides. It is a general rule that on the edge of a forest you will see the occasional tree broken in half, sometimes uprooted. This comes from natural falling by the conditions I mentioned ,
however: if a tree is found snapped, twisted, or bent through obvious force and it is in the middle of thick woodland in 'flat' territory (no exposure to wind) , the explanations for a tree break are harder to find. If a tree is tucked cozily between a tight pack of pines, it is not likely to bear enough snow or wind to break, being sheltered as it is. It could however, become diseased or infested by wood beetles and die. You never know how or why some trees might fall, they are called 'widowmakers' by lumberjacks for a reason.
Some Sasquatch treebreaks as they are described sound pretty obvious. I still remember a documentary where a man living on a logging road had Sasquatch passing by the logging road every so often. He took the film crew to the edge of the hill and pointed out several trees broken in a trail down the hillside, each snapped at the 9-10 foot mark (no man holds onto trees at that height) Among these breaks you could clearly see where a large animal had come crashing through, even the soil was churned up like a heavy animal had slid down on the edge of it's heels.
I think tree snapping like this could be an obvious sign of Sassy. Especially if sightings or sounds coincided with them.
To this day when I see a young tree twisted or snapped in half I ask myself the likelihood that wind or weather, or some other known animal would account for it. There are areas and conditions where I haven't had an explanation, and Bigfoot had been sighted in the area years earlier.
It's not evidence by any stretch but could be a telltale sign like you said. If only we could observe a Sasquatch in all it's behavior.
however: if a tree is found snapped, twisted, or bent through obvious force and it is in the middle of thick woodland in 'flat' territory (no exposure to wind) , the explanations for a tree break are harder to find. If a tree is tucked cozily between a tight pack of pines, it is not likely to bear enough snow or wind to break, being sheltered as it is. It could however, become diseased or infested by wood beetles and die. You never know how or why some trees might fall, they are called 'widowmakers' by lumberjacks for a reason.
Some Sasquatch treebreaks as they are described sound pretty obvious. I still remember a documentary where a man living on a logging road had Sasquatch passing by the logging road every so often. He took the film crew to the edge of the hill and pointed out several trees broken in a trail down the hillside, each snapped at the 9-10 foot mark (no man holds onto trees at that height) Among these breaks you could clearly see where a large animal had come crashing through, even the soil was churned up like a heavy animal had slid down on the edge of it's heels.
I think tree snapping like this could be an obvious sign of Sassy. Especially if sightings or sounds coincided with them.
To this day when I see a young tree twisted or snapped in half I ask myself the likelihood that wind or weather, or some other known animal would account for it. There are areas and conditions where I haven't had an explanation, and Bigfoot had been sighted in the area years earlier.
It's not evidence by any stretch but could be a telltale sign like you said. If only we could observe a Sasquatch in all it's behavior.
A few days ago I saw this young tree, I think it's an elm. It had a wild grape vine growing on it and appeared to have been twisted over? I don't say it was, but I realized I wasn't even sure of what I could look for, if anything.
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QUOTE(MontanaDan @ Feb 10 2007, 12:24 AM) 
Some Sasquatch treebreaks as they are described sound pretty obvious. I still remember a documentary where a man living on a logging road had Sasquatch passing by the logging road every so often. He took the film crew to the edge of the hill and pointed out several trees broken in a trail down the hillside, each snapped at the 9-10 foot mark (no man holds onto trees at that height) Among these breaks you could clearly see where a large animal had come crashing through, even the soil was churned up like a heavy animal had slid down on the edge of it's heels.
I remember that show it was very good. I have not seen it in many years now.
QUOTE(saycheez @ Feb 9 2007, 10:45 PM)
A few days ago I saw this young tree, I think it's an elm. It had a wild grape vine growing on it and appeared to have been twisted over? I don't say it was, but I realized I wasn't even sure of what I could look for, if anything.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
With a full bough of branches a tree like that could bend from ice cover, snow, freezing rain, etc. The next possibility is wind. And if none of those you would consider some form of wildlife.
That tree looks exposed to 2 of the 3 common culprits
It is a thin tree however and its rare for those to snap under weather weight. It's the larger pine tree types that break from snow weight. I have seen trees completely wound up before like something had strung it around like a plaything (thick 2 year pines). The kind of weather required to do that is hurricane force and I've yet to explain it.
If you think trees can't bow or bend over in the middle of a forest sheltered by other trees you should come see some of the trees here in SW AR. An ice storm was the culprit. The larger trees broke at various levels (pines mostly) the younger sheltered hardwoods are bent and bowed in an arc. The ice storm occurred in 2000 I believe, and the trees are still bowed over from it.
Teresa
Teresa
Just wondering if there is any significance to twisting vs. snapping, etc.? Do they mean different things to BF or is it just "artistic license"?
Any opinions?
Any opinions?
I've heard some folks say that BF will twist and break a tree so that could be an indicator of BF activity. I don't know anything about it from BF standpoint.
I've also heard BF's mark trails with broken/twisted trees. Again, at least for me, unless a BF has been seen doing that, my jury is out.
I've also heard BF's mark trails with broken/twisted trees. Again, at least for me, unless a BF has been seen doing that, my jury is out.
QUOTE(VAFooter @ Feb 10 2007, 07:58 PM)
Just wondering if there is any significance to twisting vs. snapping, etc.? Do they mean different things to BF or is it just "artistic license"?
Any opinions?
Any opinions?
Could be a mood thing, impressionism at it's most basic level, or...it could be just accidents, they just don't make trees like they used to.
If there were a red flag of sorts, associated with break or twists, to tell me to look at an area closer, it would be helpful. Good, close-ups of breaks with "known" causes and see if there can be anythig inferred. Or I could head to the local Chrismas Tree Farm and break all their trees, take some quik pics and skeedattle.
I'm old and fat, I need to find all the shortcuts I can.
I believe tree breaks/snaps/twists can be a possible indicator of bigfoot activity. Seen a lot of tree breaks, some easily explainable, and others that make you say humm..... So I take pics of them and post them here in the 'In the field' section when I find them! 
First take note of your surroundings, if there are a variety of breaks in different sized treees and branches its most likely wind damage, or snow damage if viable. This can occur in any kind of growth, heavy or thin, deciduous or conifer. Check the size of the tree and freshness of the break. If its still green the better the chances of any information to be gathered from it. What has the weather been lately? Is theere large game living in the area? Also deer and other cervids will thrash and generally strip bark in the process of raking their antlers. Are there any branches, or trees that look like they could have broken it in a fall... is it thin enough in size for a human to have created it, if so then best rule it out as bigfoot sign unless you have other positive identifiers. Ie. footprints, actual sighting, etc. In high human activity areas, especially with kids, or boy scouts any breaks should be circumspect, as are those found in military training areas.
Twists and strips are easier to recognize than breaks. They can occur naturally, but are easier to identify as such than breaks. For your best efforts focus on a clean twist or stripping of a tree or branch. Branches from about five to ten feet in height on any size tree, and small trees/saplings up to 8 feet are prime for such activity. If it looks too good to be true then its likely been created with an opposable thumb of either a person or a Bigfoot. Make sure there are no claw or teeth marks from any bears. Anything grabbing the branch in its mouth should leave tell-tale teeth marks.
Branch(s)will be stripped either off, or twisted just like a person might, either in play, or boredom. Don't touch the twisted branch, but find another one similar in size and preferably on the same tree that you can try to imitate the process. If you can do it, again its best to rule it out as Bigfoot unless you have a more evidence. So make sure you look for other evidence, check the ground below and see if you can feel or visually see indentions of footprints. If you or any other human can do it bewary of jumping to conclusions for or against Bigfoot activity.
Take note especially if its a strip, such as the whole trunk stripped in two. I have seen a small black locust tree, seven feet in height, which was stripped from the top all the way down almost to the ground in twain. Incredible amount of strength and impossible by human standards, not too mention it was covered by one inch and two inch thorns all over it. I checked it thoroughly for lightning scars, but there were no burn marks, plus there were Bigfoot prints in the near vicinity. Which doesn't mean it was caused by said Bigfoot, but its the best answer to the puzzle.
Twists and strips are often sign markers, from my observance. They can mark a trail entrance, a trail in general, or theoretically a territorial marker. The latter of these I cannot attest to, but its quite possible.
Especially if they have any type of glands on their hands, or wrists to scent mark them. Its possible they might even urinate on their hands to do the same. This is anyone's guess. I have been trying to swab twists to collect pheromone samples, but I have not been able to get to a very fresh twist. Blood, which is very scarce, and hair samples aren't as common as folks believe. In such cases. You need to find a good back scratching tree for such, or set hair traps to collect this evidence yourself.
If you come upon a fresh tree twist, and I mean fresh, please carefully cut it off so it can be finger printed or analyzed for scent markings. BUT, don't just start cutting off tree branches left and right, be aware you might be vandilizing or breaking property regulations if your in a state park, wildlife refuge, on private property, etc. Make sure its okay to do this with a branch that is easy to collect. Risking your neck to get a branch out of your reach isn't smart, so be careful and be respectful of the tree, the property owner, and environmental regulations. If you know its fresh and you have a fingerprinting kit do the work right then without cutting the branch off. Its best to leave it, so any Bigfoot will know where its at and won't figure out your hunting them. Wear gloves in any part of this process, so you don't leave any scent or fingerprints of your own.
I have also collected what appears to be small branches twisted off a fuit tree by Bigfoot child in winter. The initial report, the small tracks in the snow which led directly to the tree and the impossibility of myself or my Bigfooting partner to imitate the process. I found the first twig, which was twisted multiple times like you might playing with a straw, dangling on a branch seven feet up as if someone randomly threw it up in the air torn from a branch at dour feet in height. I found another still attached to the tree also at four feet in height. All branches were broken while still green and either twisted, or pulped as if someone rubbed their fingers together to smash them. And on the pulped branches the bark was not even broken. Nor were they rotten branches when I cut one open to inspect the inside. My partner is quite strong, over 230 lbs. of muscle and he couldn't imitate the process. We had the owners permission to cut small fresh samples to try to imitate the process also. I also found another tree twist in the same tree seven and a half feet up. Possibly done by the adult with it. This report included two to three sets of tracks large and small, in December, in the snow running through a families yard in a rural farm area two nights in a row.
Deduction has its weaknesses, but make your best calculations and realize that without a direct witness or any video or direct physical evidence that all tree/branch breaks, twists or strips are circumstantial evidence. Artistic license aside, in my opinion and experience of investigating its not art but habit for Bigfoot to do such.
Hoped this helps, best of Bigfooting.
Twists and strips are easier to recognize than breaks. They can occur naturally, but are easier to identify as such than breaks. For your best efforts focus on a clean twist or stripping of a tree or branch. Branches from about five to ten feet in height on any size tree, and small trees/saplings up to 8 feet are prime for such activity. If it looks too good to be true then its likely been created with an opposable thumb of either a person or a Bigfoot. Make sure there are no claw or teeth marks from any bears. Anything grabbing the branch in its mouth should leave tell-tale teeth marks.
Branch(s)will be stripped either off, or twisted just like a person might, either in play, or boredom. Don't touch the twisted branch, but find another one similar in size and preferably on the same tree that you can try to imitate the process. If you can do it, again its best to rule it out as Bigfoot unless you have a more evidence. So make sure you look for other evidence, check the ground below and see if you can feel or visually see indentions of footprints. If you or any other human can do it bewary of jumping to conclusions for or against Bigfoot activity.
Take note especially if its a strip, such as the whole trunk stripped in two. I have seen a small black locust tree, seven feet in height, which was stripped from the top all the way down almost to the ground in twain. Incredible amount of strength and impossible by human standards, not too mention it was covered by one inch and two inch thorns all over it. I checked it thoroughly for lightning scars, but there were no burn marks, plus there were Bigfoot prints in the near vicinity. Which doesn't mean it was caused by said Bigfoot, but its the best answer to the puzzle.
Twists and strips are often sign markers, from my observance. They can mark a trail entrance, a trail in general, or theoretically a territorial marker. The latter of these I cannot attest to, but its quite possible.
Especially if they have any type of glands on their hands, or wrists to scent mark them. Its possible they might even urinate on their hands to do the same. This is anyone's guess. I have been trying to swab twists to collect pheromone samples, but I have not been able to get to a very fresh twist. Blood, which is very scarce, and hair samples aren't as common as folks believe. In such cases. You need to find a good back scratching tree for such, or set hair traps to collect this evidence yourself.
If you come upon a fresh tree twist, and I mean fresh, please carefully cut it off so it can be finger printed or analyzed for scent markings. BUT, don't just start cutting off tree branches left and right, be aware you might be vandilizing or breaking property regulations if your in a state park, wildlife refuge, on private property, etc. Make sure its okay to do this with a branch that is easy to collect. Risking your neck to get a branch out of your reach isn't smart, so be careful and be respectful of the tree, the property owner, and environmental regulations. If you know its fresh and you have a fingerprinting kit do the work right then without cutting the branch off. Its best to leave it, so any Bigfoot will know where its at and won't figure out your hunting them. Wear gloves in any part of this process, so you don't leave any scent or fingerprints of your own.
I have also collected what appears to be small branches twisted off a fuit tree by Bigfoot child in winter. The initial report, the small tracks in the snow which led directly to the tree and the impossibility of myself or my Bigfooting partner to imitate the process. I found the first twig, which was twisted multiple times like you might playing with a straw, dangling on a branch seven feet up as if someone randomly threw it up in the air torn from a branch at dour feet in height. I found another still attached to the tree also at four feet in height. All branches were broken while still green and either twisted, or pulped as if someone rubbed their fingers together to smash them. And on the pulped branches the bark was not even broken. Nor were they rotten branches when I cut one open to inspect the inside. My partner is quite strong, over 230 lbs. of muscle and he couldn't imitate the process. We had the owners permission to cut small fresh samples to try to imitate the process also. I also found another tree twist in the same tree seven and a half feet up. Possibly done by the adult with it. This report included two to three sets of tracks large and small, in December, in the snow running through a families yard in a rural farm area two nights in a row.
Deduction has its weaknesses, but make your best calculations and realize that without a direct witness or any video or direct physical evidence that all tree/branch breaks, twists or strips are circumstantial evidence. Artistic license aside, in my opinion and experience of investigating its not art but habit for Bigfoot to do such.
Hoped this helps, best of Bigfooting.
QUOTE(Ranger Tim @ Feb 11 2007, 11:44 AM)
Hoped this helps, best of Bigfooting.
Yes...It helps much, I would like to explore the idea of putting together an online photo album focusing on tree breaks. Good photos of breaks of all different types for educational purposes. It might cut down on misidentification and confusion. Anyone think this might be an idea worth pursuing?
Nice post Ranger Tim.
QUOTE(saycheez @ Feb 11 2007, 12:06 PM)
Yes...It helps much, I would like to explore the idea of putting together an online photo album focusing on tree breaks. Good photos of breaks of all different types for educational purposes. It might cut down on misidentification and confusion. Anyone think this might be an idea worth pursuing?
Start the thread and I will be more than happy to supply treebreak pics from my field work!
QUOTE(ARsquatch @ Feb 11 2007, 12:20 PM)
Nice post Ranger Tim.
Ditto!
QUOTE(socaldave @ Feb 11 2007, 02:06 PM)
Start the thread and I will be more than happy to supply treebreak pics from my field work!
Let's see if we can get it going without another thread. How about this... post your pics of tree breaks here and why you think they may or may not be BF related. Include date,time, location, and whatever evidence you have as to how they occured.
I hope to see some pics of known "non-BF" related breaks... breaks caused by weather, disease,people or other critters.
These pics were taken at Bolan Lake, Oregon last summer in July(I believe). This tree break was found off an old closed logging road about a mile from the dirt road leading to the campground. It was standing by itself and no other trees were damamged. Looked fresh and was right next to a game trail. What made me suspicious that this was NOT a bigfoot related tree break was that it was only about four feet off the ground and could have been twisted and broken by a number of critters . However, it was fresh, and was twisted good, and interesting to see in the middle of nowhere! Of course maybe it was a bigfoot treebreak and I'm wrong!LOL
another shot
3rd shot
another shot
3rd shot
Here is another interesting tree break from Jake and my trip to Bolan Lake OR in July 06. Specs; GPS N 41 degrees 59.632' W 123 degrees 32.012 elev. 4824 ft. Break was 7 feet 7 inches from the ground facing towards road with a circumference of six inches at break. This one was kind of mysterious as it was broken much higher and located next to a game trail that crossed the road w/ a tree break on the other side of the road.
QUOTE(socaldave @ Feb 12 2007, 12:21 AM)
Here is another interesting tree break from Jake and my trip to Bolan Lake OR in July 06. Specs; GPS N 41 degrees 59.632' W 123 degrees 32.012 elev. 4824 ft. Break was 7 feet 7 inches from the ground facing towards road with a circumference of six inches at break. This one was kind of mysterious as it was broken much higher and located next to a game trail that crossed the road w/ a tree break on the other side of the road.
:appl: Thanks for getting us off to a good start, now keep those cards and letters coming folks.... sc :appl:
Great pics socaldave, as usual!
I'd like to add, when documenting tree breaks, note where the top of tree is facing. For example, in the instance of the 7'7" tall break, was it fell toward the road or game trail? Was the tree break/twist on other side of road facing the same direction?
If(and it's a big if) tree twists are used for intimidation, I can see these two breaks both facing the road(or game trail). Or, if they're used for migrating, they might be pointing the same direction. This is just speculation, but if this information is noted, it may make more sense in future when trying to catagorize a tree break. Or conversely, that it doesnt make a darn difference.
I'd like to add, when documenting tree breaks, note where the top of tree is facing. For example, in the instance of the 7'7" tall break, was it fell toward the road or game trail? Was the tree break/twist on other side of road facing the same direction?
If(and it's a big if) tree twists are used for intimidation, I can see these two breaks both facing the road(or game trail). Or, if they're used for migrating, they might be pointing the same direction. This is just speculation, but if this information is noted, it may make more sense in future when trying to catagorize a tree break. Or conversely, that it doesnt make a darn difference.
QUOTE(oregonfooter @ Feb 12 2007, 09:17 AM)
Great pics socaldave, as usual!
I'd like to add, when documenting tree breaks, note where the top of tree is facing. For example, in the instance of the 7'7" tall break, was it fell toward the road or game trail? Was the tree break/twist on other side of road facing the same direction?
If(and it's a big if) tree twists are used for intimidation, I can see these two breaks both facing the road(or game trail). Or, if they're used for migrating, they might be pointing the same direction. This is just speculation, but if this information is noted, it may make more sense in future when trying to catagorize a tree break. Or conversely, that it doesnt make a darn difference.
I'd like to add, when documenting tree breaks, note where the top of tree is facing. For example, in the instance of the 7'7" tall break, was it fell toward the road or game trail? Was the tree break/twist on other side of road facing the same direction?
If(and it's a big if) tree twists are used for intimidation, I can see these two breaks both facing the road(or game trail). Or, if they're used for migrating, they might be pointing the same direction. This is just speculation, but if this information is noted, it may make more sense in future when trying to catagorize a tree break. Or conversely, that it doesnt make a darn difference.
Yes oregonfooter, it is extremely important to document as much as you can when you are there. As I mentioned in my previous post, the treebreak was broken so it faced the road. I found my field notes from last summer and can add this to the pic.
No hair was found around the break,inconclusive impression found on game trail close to break with measuremnets of six inches across at heel, toe distance 8 inches and the impression measured 13 inches toe to heel. No other large impressions found below tree on game trail, rugged extremely sloped terrain w/ a rocky dirt base. Didn't take a pic of the impression as it couldn't be picked up by the camera to share, would have been a blob print at best. Looking over my notes I was wrong about a tree break across the road from this one. I did find two breaks across from each other but that was later on that day. Will refer to my field notes and post those two as soon as I can get all my facts straight and memory refreshed!
PS /notice paved road bottom of pic and break facing towards road .
QUOTE(socaldave @ Feb 12 2007, 01:05 PM)
Yes oregonfooter, it is extremely important to document as much as you can when you are there. As I mentioned in my previous post, the treebreak was broken so it faced the road. I found my field notes from last summer and can add this to the pic.
note to self: never post before first cup of coffee is consumed :smile:
I noticed you had mentioned the direction of the 7'7". My post was just so others could be as observant(and take field notes) as you. I worded it incorrectly; sorry for the confusion.
I am now very curious of the two breaks on opposite sides of the road... I'm thinking you might have even posted that in a different thread... will look for it.
QUOTE(oregonfooter @ Feb 12 2007, 03:15 PM)
note to self: never post before first cup of coffee is consumed :smile:
I noticed you had mentioned the direction of the 7'7". My post was just so others could be as observant(and take field notes) as you. I worded it incorrectly; sorry for the confusion.
I am now very curious of the two breaks on opposite sides of the road... I'm thinking you might have even posted that in a different thread... will look for it.
I noticed you had mentioned the direction of the 7'7". My post was just so others could be as observant(and take field notes) as you. I worded it incorrectly; sorry for the confusion.
I am now very curious of the two breaks on opposite sides of the road... I'm thinking you might have even posted that in a different thread... will look for it.
No prob oregonfooter. It was late enough last night I had to check myself this morning after I read your post. You are right, I posted the pics of the two breaks on opposite sides of the road from my Bolan Lake thread here last summer in the 'in the field' section.
Ok, here are pics and specs from the tree breaks I found on the dirt road to Bolan Lake July of last summer. The treebreaks were across the dirt road from each other and the closest measuring angle was 34 feet. The tallest treebreak was seven feet high with a eight inch diameter. This tree was up slope. The second treebreak was 4 1/2 feet high with an 8 1/2 foot diameter on the down slope. The tall tree break was broken facing the road and the shorter one was broken sideways. Both were by a game trail that crossed the road and seemed to connect on both sides by the treees. GPS location: N 42 degrees 00.819" H 123 degrees 27.889" elev. 5338 feet
A few of mine:
Or on a bigger scale:
The twisting of the grain of the wood is what gets me...
Or on a bigger scale:
The twisting of the grain of the wood is what gets me...
Perhaps taking a look at the break/twist and determining if it has signs within the grain of wind disturbance over time will help answer some questions of lone or multiple tree twists and breaks. For informational purposes.
QUOTE
Foliage tends to be thicker on the south side of the tree because of better sunlight. Prevailing winds, in most of the tree-growing northern hemisphere, are from the west. Combine these factors, and the westerly wind pushing on the thicker south side of the tree, year after year, causes an asymmetrical wind loading which slowly twists the tree around in the observed direction. If you could draw a line straight down a tree, you'd see that the tree isn't exactly alike from one side to the other. Differences in limbs and leaves may cause the tree to have more wind resistance on one side than the other. The tree begins to "twist" (much like a stop sign "twists" in strong winds), if wind speeds are high enough the tree will begin to tear apart in a twisting motion - even though the winds are relatively straight.
The mechanical function of the tree trunk is placed in focus, that is the ability of the trees to withstand external mechanical loads, mainly from wind. Spiral grain is an optimized growth feature when the trees are exposed to combined bending and torsion. Torsion occurs when the crown is asymmetric in the plane perpendicular to the wind direction. Most of the coniferous forests have prevailing westerly winds, which, when combined with the crown asymmetry, leads to a prevailing torque. Although spiral grain is largely under genetic control, trees appear to have a spiral grain especially where needed for distribution of water when root spheres are dry at one side. Compared with straight-grained trees, spiral-grained stems and branches bend and twist more when exposed to strong wind, in this way offering less wind resistance and being less likely to break.
The mechanical function of the tree trunk is placed in focus, that is the ability of the trees to withstand external mechanical loads, mainly from wind. Spiral grain is an optimized growth feature when the trees are exposed to combined bending and torsion. Torsion occurs when the crown is asymmetric in the plane perpendicular to the wind direction. Most of the coniferous forests have prevailing westerly winds, which, when combined with the crown asymmetry, leads to a prevailing torque. Although spiral grain is largely under genetic control, trees appear to have a spiral grain especially where needed for distribution of water when root spheres are dry at one side. Compared with straight-grained trees, spiral-grained stems and branches bend and twist more when exposed to strong wind, in this way offering less wind resistance and being less likely to break.
QUOTE(socaldave @ Feb 12 2007, 01:21 AM)
Here is another interesting tree break from Jake and my trip to Bolan Lake OR in July 06. Specs; GPS N 41 degrees 59.632' W 123 degrees 32.012 elev. 4824 ft. Break was 7 feet 7 inches from the ground facing towards road with a circumference of six inches at break. This one was kind of mysterious as it was broken much higher and located next to a game trail that crossed the road w/ a tree break on the other side of the road.
This is great information and much better pictures than I've found elsewhere. A friend and I were quail hunting, season of 2006 and found something very similar, although our tree was somewhat smaller. Our tree wasn't near a road, but rather what used to possibly be a skid road for logging that had since been overgrown. It had become a game trail with HUGE bear scats every several feet (manzanita/madrone bushes/berries lined the trail).
"Our" tree was similar to these pictures. It was just pulled over or snapped at about 6 - 6.5 feet from the ground. You could see something had "grabbed" it, as there was rubbing above and below the break. What was interesting to us was how high it was, and that the "rub" marks were from something somewhat soft because it didn't scratch the bark.
By the way, I looked up Bolan Lake, and if it's the one near Cave Junction, it's relatively close to the tree break we found, which was somewhat near Applegate/Squaw Lakes.
Where are you located So Cal Dave? Is that the Bolan Lake area you were at, near Cave Junction/Applegate?
QUOTE(VAFooter @ Feb 10 2007, 08:58 PM)
Just wondering if there is any significance to twisting vs. snapping, etc.? Do they mean different things to BF or is it just "artistic license"?
Any opinions?
Any opinions?
I think to the sasquatch of this great country, snaps and twists are 2 very different things! My "belief" on this topic is that the twists and snaps mean two totally different things! I think it could be as simple as things like, when they came through ( as in time of year) or it could be like the size of the group they are traveling in! Those are just my "beliefs" on this very interesting subject! To me it just seems right that if they all meant the same thing, then they would do the same thing every time.
Give me a hoot with what you guys take this for?
Indiana Sasquatch Research - S.B.R.U.
There's a lot of threads on tree breaks, but I believe this is the newest one so I'll report my findings from today here. I took a trip out west of town to see if I could find any "Tree Breaks" in the woods in that area. I've said it before that at least SOME tree breaks can be caused by idiots blasting trees with shotguns.
Before going on let me apologize for the quality of the pictures I'm about to post. When I got there I found the batteries in my digital camera had died, so I had to rely on my camcorder which I also had with me. Taking snapshots from videos doesn't always render the best quality. Here's what I found today in support of my theory about shotguns and trees.
Tree break #1, sapling about 2" in diameter broken approximately 3 feet above the ground...
Click to view attachment
Object found on ground between 15 and 20 feet from tree...
Click to view attachment
Again sorry about the quality. For those of you who may not recognize this, it's a .410 gauge shotgun shell. The tree break looks old and corrosion on the shell brass suggests it's old as well.
Tree break #2, sapling a little smaller maybe 1 1/2" in diameter approximately 35 feet from tree #1
Click to view attachment
Object found between 15 and 20 feet from tree..., yep another shotgun shell, here's a pic of both shell #1 and shell #2 so you know I'm not using the same shell in both pics. Both are same caliber .410 gauge.
Click to view attachment
Tree break #3, another sapling about 2" in diameter... This tree is about 50' from the first and 50' or so from the second off to the south of both trees.
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Object found also between 15 and 20 feet from tree... yet another shotgun shell also .410 gauge in size.
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Could this be a coincidence that shotgun shells, all the same caliber, were found approximately the same distance from each tree exhibiting tree breaks? Was a shotgun actually used, or is this a matter of circumstances with no relationship to each other.
I searched the entire area and only found the three .410 shells, each approximately the same distance from a tree that had a break. Another thing I noticed is that the shell was in direct line with the way the tree fell. It appears that if these shells were used the tree does NOT fall away from the shooter as you may think, but towards the shooter. I can only assume that the force of the blast causes the tree to bend in a way it actually breaks on the opposite side of where it's hit and falls towards the person shooting.
I also notice damage to a tree directly behind tree break #2 about 4 feet away. Here's the pic of that...
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There were areas on this tree that looks like some of the bark has been hit, probably by the pellets in the shotgun shell and exhibits pieces of bark that were blown away. I also found this wound on the same tree...
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There is a perfectly round hole bored into the tree with the outer bark missing. I probed the hole with a piece of wire I had and there is something hard at the base of the hole. I'm guessing it's probably one of the shotgun pellets. Digging it out would most likely require destruction of the tree and since this is not my property I decided against that procedure.
Is this the ONLY explaination for tree breaks? Absolutely not as I'm sure some are caused by wind, snow, possibly flooding, people or animals leaning up against them and a whole lot of other possibilities. The main point is we can not attribute this to bigfoot simply by appearance. Unless someone actually witnesses a bigfoot breaking a tree I think to ASSUME bigfoot did it, will cause more wasted time than accomplishments.
(edited to add)
If you come across a tree break, look in the area directly towards the direction the tree fell for evidence of shotgun shells to see if this may be an explanation in your case.
Before going on let me apologize for the quality of the pictures I'm about to post. When I got there I found the batteries in my digital camera had died, so I had to rely on my camcorder which I also had with me. Taking snapshots from videos doesn't always render the best quality. Here's what I found today in support of my theory about shotguns and trees.
Tree break #1, sapling about 2" in diameter broken approximately 3 feet above the ground...
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Object found on ground between 15 and 20 feet from tree...
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Again sorry about the quality. For those of you who may not recognize this, it's a .410 gauge shotgun shell. The tree break looks old and corrosion on the shell brass suggests it's old as well.
Tree break #2, sapling a little smaller maybe 1 1/2" in diameter approximately 35 feet from tree #1
Click to view attachment
Object found between 15 and 20 feet from tree..., yep another shotgun shell, here's a pic of both shell #1 and shell #2 so you know I'm not using the same shell in both pics. Both are same caliber .410 gauge.
Click to view attachment
Tree break #3, another sapling about 2" in diameter... This tree is about 50' from the first and 50' or so from the second off to the south of both trees.
Click to view attachment
Object found also between 15 and 20 feet from tree... yet another shotgun shell also .410 gauge in size.
Click to view attachment
Could this be a coincidence that shotgun shells, all the same caliber, were found approximately the same distance from each tree exhibiting tree breaks? Was a shotgun actually used, or is this a matter of circumstances with no relationship to each other.
I searched the entire area and only found the three .410 shells, each approximately the same distance from a tree that had a break. Another thing I noticed is that the shell was in direct line with the way the tree fell. It appears that if these shells were used the tree does NOT fall away from the shooter as you may think, but towards the shooter. I can only assume that the force of the blast causes the tree to bend in a way it actually breaks on the opposite side of where it's hit and falls towards the person shooting.
I also notice damage to a tree directly behind tree break #2 about 4 feet away. Here's the pic of that...
Click to view attachment
There were areas on this tree that looks like some of the bark has been hit, probably by the pellets in the shotgun shell and exhibits pieces of bark that were blown away. I also found this wound on the same tree...
Click to view attachment
There is a perfectly round hole bored into the tree with the outer bark missing. I probed the hole with a piece of wire I had and there is something hard at the base of the hole. I'm guessing it's probably one of the shotgun pellets. Digging it out would most likely require destruction of the tree and since this is not my property I decided against that procedure.
Is this the ONLY explaination for tree breaks? Absolutely not as I'm sure some are caused by wind, snow, possibly flooding, people or animals leaning up against them and a whole lot of other possibilities. The main point is we can not attribute this to bigfoot simply by appearance. Unless someone actually witnesses a bigfoot breaking a tree I think to ASSUME bigfoot did it, will cause more wasted time than accomplishments.
(edited to add)
If you come across a tree break, look in the area directly towards the direction the tree fell for evidence of shotgun shells to see if this may be an explanation in your case.
Oh great! Now we have to worry about bigfoot carrying a shotgun around! I keed, I keed 
Moregon, that was good documentation, something to look for when determining why a tree was snapped/twisted. Yes, the tree would fall in the direction it was shot, for that is the weak part of the tree now. Consider when chopping down a tree, making a wedge shape, that is the direction the tree will fall.
Again, good work.
Moregon, that was good documentation, something to look for when determining why a tree was snapped/twisted. Yes, the tree would fall in the direction it was shot, for that is the weak part of the tree now. Consider when chopping down a tree, making a wedge shape, that is the direction the tree will fall.
Again, good work.
QUOTE(Ace! @ Mar 25 2007, 02:41 PM)
QUOTE(socaldave @ Feb 12 2007, 01:21 AM)
Here is another interesting tree break from Jake and my trip to Bolan Lake OR in July 06. Specs; GPS N 41 degrees 59.632' W 123 degrees 32.012 elev. 4824 ft. Break was 7 feet 7 inches from the ground facing towards road with a circumference of six inches at break. This one was kind of mysterious as it was broken much higher and located next to a game trail that crossed the road w/ a tree break on the other side of the road.
This is great information and much better pictures than I've found elsewhere. A friend and I were quail hunting, season of 2006 and found something very similar, although our tree was somewhat smaller. Our tree wasn't near a road, but rather what used to possibly be a skid road for logging that had since been overgrown. It had become a game trail with HUGE bear scats every several feet (manzanita/madrone bushes/berries lined the trail).
"Our" tree was similar to these pictures. It was just pulled over or snapped at about 6 - 6.5 feet from the ground. You could see something had "grabbed" it, as there was rubbing above and below the break. What was interesting to us was how high it was, and that the "rub" marks were from something somewhat soft because it didn't scratch the bark.
By the way, I looked up Bolan Lake, and if it's the one near Cave Junction, it's relatively close to the tree break we found, which was somewhat near Applegate/Squaw Lakes.
Where are you located So Cal Dave? Is that the Bolan Lake area you were at, near Cave Junction/Applegate?
Yes, the breaks were all on the dirt road leading to the lake except for one that was a mile or two down the paved road from the entrance to Bolan Lake.
Edit to add I live in southern California almost halfway between LA and SD.
QUOTE(socaldave @ Apr 23 2007, 10:53 AM)
Yes, the breaks were all on the dirt road leading to the lake except for one that was a mile or two down the paved road from the entrance to Bolan Lake.
I think i need to start paying more attention to tree breaks*editted to remove excess nested quotes
Out of curiosity how did the whole tree twist/break thing get associated with the Big guy anyway? Is there a sighting where someone withnessed one of the critters doing this? I have always wiondered.
I believe from reports and relationships with sightings don't quote me on that
QUOTE(MYM @ Apr 23 2007, 04:57 PM)
Out of curiosity how did the whole tree twist/break thing get associated with the Big guy anyway? Is there a sighting where someone withnessed one of the critters doing this? I have always wiondered.
It has been associated with sasquatch for about as long as there has been sasquatch lore.
QUOTE(socaldave @ Apr 23 2007, 10:53 AM)
Yes, the breaks were all on the dirt road leading to the lake except for one that was a mile or two down the paved road from the entrance to Bolan Lake.
Edit to add I live in southern California almost halfway between LA and SD.
Edit to add I live in southern California almost halfway between LA and SD.
Thanks. There are three or four of us going there in a month or so. I'm somewhat near Medford (nearest city to me near I-5) but spend a lot of time near Ruch/Applegate (if you know where that is). I've found a couple sets of prints and an interesting tree break. I've got a brother working on his masters (biology/teaching credential) and I and a hunting friend have "years and years" of woods experience. Together we've seen a few things that we can't explain in the area east of Bolan Lake.
I lived north and south of you probably, at various times, Chula Vista and Long Beach. I've got family in Mission Viejo. If you find yourself in this area, give me a shout (PM) and maybe we can hit the woods around here.
Ace have you been out to the old "Bigfoot Trap" in the Applegate? Last I heard they were restoring it, after all the graffitti that's been put on there and keep it in shape as a tourist attraction now. If you go to the trap, at the bottom of the hill looking out towards the ravine from the backside of the trap there's a seasonal creek. Later during the year, after all the snowmelt, you'll find small areas of gravel exposed in the creek bed. There was a tree down that's roots were on the top of the ridge on the opposite side of the creek. There was a gravel bed just on the other side of a large boulder, and that's where I found my first track. If you haven't been to the trap and interested let me know and I'll send you directions on how to get there.
QUOTE(Ace! @ Apr 24 2007, 08:59 PM)
QUOTE(socaldave @ Apr 23 2007, 10:53 AM)
Yes, the breaks were all on the dirt road leading to the lake except for one that was a mile or two down the paved road from the entrance to Bolan Lake.
Edit to add I live in southern California almost halfway between LA and SD.
Edit to add I live in southern California almost halfway between LA and SD.
Thanks. There are three or four of us going there in a month or so. I'm somewhat near Medford (nearest city to me near I-5) but spend a lot of time near Ruch/Applegate (if you know where that is). I've found a couple sets of prints and an interesting tree break. I've got a brother working on his masters (biology/teaching credential) and I and a hunting friend have "years and years" of woods experience. Together we've seen a few things that we can't explain in the area east of Bolan Lake.
I lived north and south of you probably, at various times, Chula Vista and Long Beach. I've got family in Mission Viejo. If you find yourself in this area, give me a shout (PM) and maybe we can hit the woods around here.
Hey Ace,
We are planning on heading up that way for a week this summer. Let's stay in touch.
Before this winter I was a believer in tree breaks as a sign of BF activity in an area. But after this winter up here, I can document hundreds/thousands of tree breaks in all sizes of trees and all shapes, heights, lengths, etc. So now I'm on the fence about what it all means.
Absolutely SoCal, we’ll have to stay in touch. I started a new job not too long ago so I don’t have a bunch of vacation time available, but I’d definitely want to meet up and maybe I could spend a couple days out with you guys.
Moregon, I know where it is, but have never been there. I drive by it from time to time because I fish relatively close (Applegate area) and hunt near there too. I found a single, perfect print, in some soft “silt” like dirt next to a creek probably a couple miles due south of there. It was the second time I’ve found prints in that area; the first set being some miles east (not too far from Squaw Lakes, east of Applegate Lake). The first set of prints was three in series that blew me away. Because they were in a series it was so convincing I still to this day can’t believe what I found (I have a very hard time believing in the unexplained). Because they were in series I was able to see the stride and size of right/left feet together and it was just perfect (I don’t mean too perfect to be real, but rather just the opposite).
Xpert4u, I thought the same thing about tree breaks having to be weather/exposure related until hunting last year. A friend and I were hunting grouse/mountain quail and found a fresh break on a tree not too big in diameter. The break was at approximately 6.5” from the ground and still green. It was in a dense area with cover from taller trees and very little wind (due to the other trees “protecting” it). There also was no snowfall at this time. It had marks above and below the break that were not scratches, but the bark was damaged (could have been horns, but really didn’t look like it). I couldn’t break a green tree at that height; trying to reach above my head with both hands and physically “snap” it. Wasn’t physically possible for me, as pulling on any other small trees just bent them over unit the tops touched the ground. There are no elk in the area and it was too tall for deer; there was also no deer or elk sign. We saw at least 100 scats we attributed to black bear and I have to assume it was bear, BUT, it sure was perplexing to see that tree bent/broken the way it was. I assume it was a bear that broke it, but I don’t know exactly how it did it. This was at the end of an old, unused skid road (logging area), and at the end the trees were much more dense and there was a “trail” that we walked a few yards, heard something, and we left. It was probably a bear.
Moregon, I know where it is, but have never been there. I drive by it from time to time because I fish relatively close (Applegate area) and hunt near there too. I found a single, perfect print, in some soft “silt” like dirt next to a creek probably a couple miles due south of there. It was the second time I’ve found prints in that area; the first set being some miles east (not too far from Squaw Lakes, east of Applegate Lake). The first set of prints was three in series that blew me away. Because they were in a series it was so convincing I still to this day can’t believe what I found (I have a very hard time believing in the unexplained). Because they were in series I was able to see the stride and size of right/left feet together and it was just perfect (I don’t mean too perfect to be real, but rather just the opposite).
Xpert4u, I thought the same thing about tree breaks having to be weather/exposure related until hunting last year. A friend and I were hunting grouse/mountain quail and found a fresh break on a tree not too big in diameter. The break was at approximately 6.5” from the ground and still green. It was in a dense area with cover from taller trees and very little wind (due to the other trees “protecting” it). There also was no snowfall at this time. It had marks above and below the break that were not scratches, but the bark was damaged (could have been horns, but really didn’t look like it). I couldn’t break a green tree at that height; trying to reach above my head with both hands and physically “snap” it. Wasn’t physically possible for me, as pulling on any other small trees just bent them over unit the tops touched the ground. There are no elk in the area and it was too tall for deer; there was also no deer or elk sign. We saw at least 100 scats we attributed to black bear and I have to assume it was bear, BUT, it sure was perplexing to see that tree bent/broken the way it was. I assume it was a bear that broke it, but I don’t know exactly how it did it. This was at the end of an old, unused skid road (logging area), and at the end the trees were much more dense and there was a “trail” that we walked a few yards, heard something, and we left. It was probably a bear.
It’s funny because I have a lot of friends who mountain bike. One of the things they do around here is go into the woods, sometimes illegally, and knock down trees and such to build trails or legally do it to maintain trails. When they do this they make quite a few tree twists and breaks and such. I guess I find the whole tree break deal to be almost impossible for me to even relate to sassy. At least around here in New England. I am not doubting that it is a valid point of research or trying to invalidate those who use it as as stepping stone to solid proof but it’s hard, for me anyway, to make the direct correlation between tree twists/breaks and Sassy.
MYM, what would be the point of bending the tree over at 6.5' from the ground? I'm really looking for another reason I've seen them, not trying to be defensive. What would it accomplish at that height, or why not pull the tree out of the ground to clear a trail?
Well, maybe ole Sas is a fan of Robert Frost. I know "Birches" has always been one of my favorites. And, being so heavy, instead of them bending the trees, they end up breaking.
My dad use to do a lot of Big Game hunting all over N. America, including bear, moose, elk etc. He'd spent quite a bit of time in several Canadian Provinces for moose, usually to locations that required a fly-in type camp. During one of these trips, I believe this one was in Northern Ontario he and his hunting partners were on an Island scouting for moose on a very foggy morning. One of his partners had apparently spooked a moose towards my dad's direction and although he couldn't see it, there was no problem hearing it. Now this is his story and whether it's fact or simply something said to make the incident more exciting, he claimed the moose's antlers actually broke a number of saplings in the thicket he'd run through at over six feet above the ground. If this is possible, and the saplings are in moose country, or maybe even elk I assume this could be a possibility as well.
Since we're talking about trees here, I came across this picture today and found it interesting. The picture comes from a
Guide Book for Grizzly Bear Habitat from the government of British Columbia. It's a .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file and can be found HERE
Click to view attachment
This picture is in reference to identifying trees that have had bears rub their backs on. It talks about finding hair, and on conifer trees, as shown in this picture, you'll find the markings much more visible due to the sap (pine tar) from the tree itself. What struck me odd is the obvious area that has been rubbed is quite a bit taller than the bear in the picture. So is this a very small grizzly, or evidence of something else?
Since we're talking about trees here, I came across this picture today and found it interesting. The picture comes from a
Guide Book for Grizzly Bear Habitat from the government of British Columbia. It's a .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file and can be found HERE
Click to view attachment
This picture is in reference to identifying trees that have had bears rub their backs on. It talks about finding hair, and on conifer trees, as shown in this picture, you'll find the markings much more visible due to the sap (pine tar) from the tree itself. What struck me odd is the obvious area that has been rubbed is quite a bit taller than the bear in the picture. So is this a very small grizzly, or evidence of something else?
I don't doubt it Moregon, and would expect something in that situation. In my situation the Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife biologists state that are no elk in this area (it wasn't antler rubs anyway though, I'm familiar enough to know). I sure wish it looked like antler rubs and wasn't quite so high off the ground, then I would have just said, "hey look at that rub over there." I wish it would be that easy to explain some of these things away sometimes.
I wish it would be that easy to explain some of these things away sometimes.
I was just going through the tree break threads and did not find any mention of trees being actually removed from the ground and just layed over. In some of my locations I quite often find trees that you can just get your hands pulled up roots and all, I cannot see any reason or explain the reason for it. I have also discovered trees that have been broken at heights of 5-7feet and above the break there have been birds nests that appear to have been tampered with.
QUOTE(moregon @ Apr 26 2007, 02:52 PM)
My dad use to do a lot of Big Game hunting all over N. America, including bear, moose, elk etc. He'd spent quite a bit of time in several Canadian Provinces for moose, usually to locations that required a fly-in type camp. During one of these trips, I believe this one was in Northern Ontario he and his hunting partners were on an Island scouting for moose on a very foggy morning. One of his partners had apparently spooked a moose towards my dad's direction and although he couldn't see it, there was no problem hearing it. Now this is his story and whether it's fact or simply something said to make the incident more exciting, he claimed the moose's antlers actually broke a number of saplings in the thicket he'd run through at over six feet above the ground. If this is possible, and the saplings are in moose country, or maybe even elk I assume this could be a possibility as well.
Since we're talking about trees here, I came across this picture today and found it interesting. The picture comes from a
Guide Book for Grizzly Bear Habitat from the government of British Columbia. It's a .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file and can be found HERE
Click to view attachment
This picture is in reference to identifying trees that have had bears rub their backs on. It talks about finding hair, and on conifer trees, as shown in this picture, you'll find the markings much more visible due to the sap (pine tar) from the tree itself. What struck me odd is the obvious area that has been rubbed is quite a bit taller than the bear in the picture. So is this a very small grizzly, or evidence of something else?
Since we're talking about trees here, I came across this picture today and found it interesting. The picture comes from a
Guide Book for Grizzly Bear Habitat from the government of British Columbia. It's a .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file and can be found HERE
Click to view attachment
This picture is in reference to identifying trees that have had bears rub their backs on. It talks about finding hair, and on conifer trees, as shown in this picture, you'll find the markings much more visible due to the sap (pine tar) from the tree itself. What struck me odd is the obvious area that has been rubbed is quite a bit taller than the bear in the picture. So is this a very small grizzly, or evidence of something else?
I have seen moose break off saplings while running. This occurred when there was early freezing weather and the moose still had their antlers. The saplings were frozen and therefore much more likely to break rather than bend.
I have also seen moose run and actually let their heads swivel as their antlers came into contact with trees and saplings - therefore not really breaking or bending anything.
As far as the photo of the grizzly and the cedar tree - IMHO - thinking that this is only a "rub" tree for bears is an error. That looks very much like what is known in my area as a "bear tree" or a "scratch tree".
Bears will reach as high as they can and scratch or tear the tree with their claws and sometimes teeth as a way of marking territory and as a warning to others that they are the biggest and baddest. The higher the scratch marks - the bigger the bear. Of course - young grizzly bears sometimes climb these trees (while their claws are still able to dig in) and pull themselves up pretty high and scratch the tree - which is pretty funny to see. The bear leaves its scent while it is rubbing and scratching the tree and may defecate and/or urinate to punctuate his/her statement.
Therefore - I think that the fact that there are high marks on that tree are not indicative of anything other than bear activity.
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