FINALLY !!!!!!! A man who can appreciate a nice pedicure LMAO

Yes, but you're talking human feet, and I'm talking bigfoot feet. To my knowledge human feet do not exhibit, as Dr. Meldrum claims squatch feet do, "a high degree of midfoot flexibility at the transverse tarsal joint". If bigfoot DOES possess this flexibility, wouldn't their feet have a fold similar to the one observed on gorilla feet? One somewhat similar to this shown on the cast of a gorilla foot, but located closer to the midpoint of the foot:



A fold that seems to show up in gorilla footprints*:



* The original image, found in a Google search, can be viewed here:

http://uniqueartistic.com/3_Browser/catalog/ftprntb.html

The 3D model was created by Unique Artistic Services Inc., and the company,



I assume then, that the 3D mold of the gorilla tracks are an accurate reproduction.

Plus, if bigfoot is lugging around tremendous amounts of weight, like the 1,957 pounds that NASI estimated, on thickly soled feet that flex in the middle, wouldn't the flexibility fold need to be fairly pronounced?



Nope, gorilla will do.



But we humans don't have as Dr. Meldrum says bigfoot do, "evidence of a pronounced flexibility in the midtarsal joint." I'm just curious why this pronounced flexibility doesn't show up in the vast majority of the clearest bigfoot prints.

Any comparisions between human feet (no flexibility) and bigfoot feet (pronounced flexibility) is irrelevant.



Yet no flexibility folds in the midtarsal region in some of the best bigfoot tracks ever found (see post #597)



Nor me, but it is one of the many things that have led me further down the skeptical path.

HarryHenderson, your thoughtful post #600 brings up some further points that lead me further along the skeptical path. For me the possibility door is dangerously close to being closed.

RayG

Ray, I don't follow your reasoning here. You wonder why there are no flexion creases found in the midfoot of alleged sasquatch tracks, then you show the creases in a gorilla's forefoot. Why aren't you noting the lack of creases in the gorilla's midfoot? I believe a gorilla has a midtarsal break (at least I know a chimp's foot does). So where are the creases in the gorilla's midfoot?

Creases are caused by a contraction and folding of the skin, not from stretching the skin over a midtarsus. On the contrary, shouldn't we see a ridge, not a crease form at the midtarsus? And wouldn't this explain why you don't see the midtarsal break in all tracks? I'm not claiming this is why we don't see flexion creases, but a midtarsal break doesn't mean the foot can contract like the palm of your hand. Look at the back of your wrist. No prominent creases there. It appears that sasquatch feet don't grasp objects that would cause them to form creases (likewise for humans). In which case, IMO not seeing flexion creases in their tracks shouldn't take you any farther down the skeptical path.

Lacking a positively identified cast or photograph of an actual squatch foot, I was trying to demonstrate using the next best example (or so I thought). Since humans do not have flexible feet but gorillas do, I was asking why, if bigfoot has a flexible foot as claimed, wouldn't they have a fold in their foot similar to the one observed on gorilla feet, but closer to the midpoint of the foot.

I was neither addressing creases in the midfoot of a gorilla, nor claiming gorillas even have a crease in their midfoot. I was, I hoped, addressing the lack of a crease in the midfoot of a squatch track/cast, if squatch indeed has a high degree of midfoot flexibility.



Some of the best squatch prints show neither a ridge or a crease, and are absolutely flat.



Your back of the wrist analogy is an excellent example of combining a high range of motion with no prominent crease or fold. However, I'm still left with some unanswered questions:

How flexible is this highly flexible foot?
Is the flexibility more pronounced on the top of the foot or the bottom?
We don't have flexible feet and we don't walk on our wrists, so if squatch is bipedal, why does he require such a flexible foot?
Our wrists don't have thick padding. Does squatch have thick padding on the bottom of the foot? If so, how does that interfere with his flexible foot movement?
For something with flexible feet why does squatch have such flat footprints?



If they don't grasp objects, why develop flexible feet?



It's not just the lack of flexion creases. Squatch seems to have a foot that's remarkably flat (yet highly flexible), with no discernable crease or fold on the bottom (except when he utilizes that flexibility), and devoid of any thick padding to interfere with his foot flexibility (yet his poor feet have to support tremendous weight). It just don't seem natural.

RayG

I haven't read this thread before, and at some point, I'll find the time to read the entire thread from the start.

For the time being, I'll weigh in with a few personal observations:

1) Having spent some time on a Scenes of Crime course ran by the police, and had first hand experiencing in casting footprints and tyre-tracks, I can confirm that nearly every video or description I have seen on a website regarding bigfoot shows 'experienced' bigfoot researchers casting incorrectly.

This causes an additional problem in that I suspect that the likes of Mr. Chilcut are used to seeing properly cast prints to evidential standards with proper casting material - ie, not cheap plaster as used by many researchers.


2) Why has no-one sought out another latent fingerprint expert? Anyone wanting to support or disprove Chilcut should do that as a matter of course, and if they are not prepared to do that, then they should question why not.


3) Anyone who has not seen the bottom of a Sasquatch's foot should be very careful about making any kind of statement about what it should look like.

I couldnt agree with you more Paul. Which is why in all my experiments I am throwing in tests with temperature variations to show researchers what can happen when they use water that is too hot or too cold. In one set of experiments I even varied the amount of water and casting agent, to show what happens when the mix is to thick or thin. Bad things do happen when people do not follow the instructions, but I have yet to create the artifacts on temp and mix alone.



My work involved the opinion of more than just one person. If I can actually create the artifacts, then I will take it to that level next. But I need to create the artifacts first... Lord knows Im trying.



And, I agree with you here too. We have no idea what the dermals on this animal (if its out there) would look like. We can only guess at this point. But because this animal (I think, if its out there) would be in the primate family, it should have dermals... We can only make good guesses, and hope they are right. But dermals as you know are very distinctive - and if we find that type of potential evidence, it needs to be preserved.

It is one potential piece of the puzzle, I just hope my work gets researchers to take this part of the field work seriously.

Try what is known to work, pumice or what Seattle Pottery calls Volcanic Ash.

You already know that I am using this very substrate, you have known now for at least a week, so why would you try and yet again bait me on this?

This is so sad.

"And, I agree with you here too. We have no idea what the dermals on this animal (if its out there) would look like. We can only guess at this point"
Why not assume, at least for now, that Mr. Chilcutt found actual dermal ridges on the one he called to Dr. Meldrum's attention? I believe he said they radiated from the sides of the foot, but I could be wrong on that.

You possess it, but haven't used it, which is propbably why you haven't gotten casting artifacts.

Once again, you assume, and dispel any question about your ignorance - or ability to read past the first sentence.

You dont know what I have and have not done, because my work involves more than telling people what to think based on what I tell them - I prefer to document and give people the hard numbers. Telling people "I used water from the hose outside" just isnt giving them enough information.

Spin that as you will - I am done with you and your nonsense, I prefer to play with adults.

He shoots...he SCORES! I don't think I can appreciate your succintness enough Ray.

What I truly don't understand about the 'scientist' aspect on this type of FACTOID (that midtarsal break or not, MOST BF tracks are 'absolutely flat') is their SEEMING lack of serious/worthy discussion/contemplation of how 'opposed' such evidence OFTEN is to the speculation and conjecture they're usually promoting. I'm reminded of that line in Jurassic Park (paraphrasing) "...you guys were so intent on seeing if you COULD do it, you never stopped to think if you SHOULD do it..."

For example, and I'm NOT picking on him, Meldrum has apparently been 'fascinated' by the "midtarsal break theory"...yet actual tracks with such an indication seem to be rare and/or virtually non-existent. Is running with the more 'real life' (based on the evidence) theory that Bigfoot is FLAT FOOTED just too mundane? Is there really NO Bigfoot if he's just gonna be flat footed? He exists only if we can prove there's a midtarsal break? To use a pedestrian term, that's thinking stupidly..or at least illogically. It's wrong headed. I am no investigator (although my curiosity is often on steroids), but I thought 'evaluation of the evidence', in any discipline, scientific/crimminal/et al, is exatly that. ALL the evidence. Especially when ONE KIND of it (however mundane it may be) seems to show up again and again. Unjustly discarding that 99% for the 1%, strictly on the HOPE one might be 'on to something' isn't science, it's 'reaching for glory'. Maybe that's what Bigfoot Inc. is really all about. "The firstest gets the mostest."

I see what looks like a very tired back-and-forth between Wolftrax & Mellissa. I don't know who is at fault, since I haven't been following this thread, but it needs to stop right now.


Perhaps one way of solving the problem of this thread would be to suspend it until Melissa has finished writing a paper on her experiments and findings - once properly presented, then we could open it up again for discussion.

I'll leave it as it is for the time being, and let the followers of this thread weigh in on my suggestion.

I agree with you Paul but don't think this needs to be suspended. The should both be smart and mature enough to have gotten the message at this point- let's hope. But can I kindly suggest they both write a little less here and little more on the documentation they are working on so we can all get on with it?

Apeman