I am a believer in bigfoot,although i have never seen one myself.I investigate and research the creature.I once read that there were a group of people that were advocating hoaxing a bigfoot encounter,and perhaps filming it.The reason? So that more and more people would see and hear about it,and then go out more and be looking for the real creature thus leading to more encounters with the real bigfoot,and possibly leading to hard evidence. I look at this as sort of like setting yourself on fire just to see if your fire extinguisher still works.I am against it-it doesnt make sense.As an investigator,i dont want to be chasing the tooth fairy with my spare time.All this type of nonsense does is,makes skeptics more skeptical and hurts the cause.If there are hoaxers out there,what resons do you have for doing this? To sell it and make money,it better be pretty good quality.Hopefully this is not a widespread belief that hoaxing can be good for the cause in the long run.What does everyone think?

Well, hoax if you want to... Just don't come running back here saying it was all a joke! It's your credibility on the line.

bigfootmorf , please don't take this personally. I don't know you, and haven't checked your previous posts to see. I haven't a clue what you're like personally, or your integrity. This is not directed @ you per se, but to the people on the forum generally...

Here's the bottom line, as far as hoaxing goes...

Yep, you can hoax. Yep, it's probably gonna get at least a little, if not alot of attention. It might end up being your "lifetime's claim to fame"... (That precious special 15 minutes of fame everyone talks about...) All that stuff will eventually pass. But what if you hoaxed something this week, & proclaimed it for all the world to see, and then next week you actually have a real live encounter? Who's gonna believe ya? It's something for everyone out there thinking about hoaxing to consider.

(To everyone: Remember, not singling out bigfootmorf specifically, but just talking about hoaxsters in general. Don't want to shoot him in the foot before he even really gets started around here!)

A hoax isn't just a joke. When ya hoax, ya lay your personal integrity & credibility on the line. The question is, "What's it worth to you?".......

littlefoot,maybe you didnt read my post all the way. I AM AGAINST HOAXING!!!!! I am a researcher,and wouldnt want to be wasting my valuable free time chasing around hoaxers.The reason for my post was to ask peoples opinions as to why one would hoax in the first place,Sorry to upset you,i think you misunderstood.

Somehow I don't think Bigfootmorf was advocating hoaxing in any way....



I'm with Bigfootmorf, I'm against it. There's no such thing as a "good" hoax. Hoaxing is bad for the field, under any circumstance.

So, bigfootmorf, I guess we agree! No chasing tooth-faries. No setting yourself on fire to test the extinguisher. I think sometimes people are frivolous. Sometimes they don't even think about how what they do on an impulse will reflect on their personal integrity or what they do in the future. To me, it's the difference between being a teenager & doing something fun, or being an adult & getting something done!

Thanks volsquatch,i think you understood what i meant.

I believe bigfoot will one day,hopefully sooner than later,be proven to be 100% real.But it wont happen with the help of hoaxers,it will be an 18 wheeler or a logging truck hitting one,or a bear hunter accidentally shooting one.It will be just right place at the right time

That's why I added the next post... Guess I'm not communicating tonight... Sorry, guys. I must have said it wrong.

I do think that hoaxsters don't always think before they do it. I don't think they even think of the implications.

My apologies to bigfootmorf. As I said in the first post, this was not intented to be taken personally.
I'm really sorry if I offended you!

This is a good topic you brought up, BFmorf! When I picture a hoaxster in my mind, I see someone doing whaever they do, whether footprints, sounds, or whatever, then lurking around the area, like a snake in the grass, waiting for all of the "nerdy bigfoot hunters" to descend on the area & turn it into a zoo. Scary thought, isn't it?

I don't think it ever crosses their minds that they might have hurt their own credibility.

Littlefoot,i can see your point of view,the hoaxers can undermine everything we do and strive for within the bigfoot community.Everytime i see fake videos and pics on line or on tv,it makes me scratch my head and throw my hands up in the air.

I'm sure my opinion probably doesn't matter much here, however I will give it to ya anyways. . .Hoaxing may generate publicity in the short term, but when the hoax is discovered, and it will be, it will hurt the Industry in the long term. It may have the opposite effect than what you were saying Bigfootmorf, the negative effect after the hoax is exposed will more than likely damage the public opinion on the subject. In other words, instead of people saying "yeah, it exists, lets study this...", they might now say "hey this is fake like evryone else says, so it's a waste of time." I think Bigfoot generates enough publicity own it's own. Im not saying a little more is a bad thing, but the wrong kind certainly could damage the public's perceptive.

Oh, bigfootmorf,

The whole hoaxing thing is so silly & stupid! I can see teenagers going out & doing (not that I approve) because they generally don't think about consequences & credibility, and they think they have nothing better to do.

But there are adults who do it too! Why? What do they get out of it? Just doesn't make sense, does it!?!

I mentioned it before in this thread... Suppose someone (or plural) plants a hoax & it becomes news. Researchers go take a look-see & decide it is what it is... a hoax. Well, duh, you can pretty well bet they aren't gonna jump at the chance to research a sighting around that particular area again. Would ya blame them? I wouldn't! Why bother... ???

So a few months later after this teen (or teens) has faked tree breaks & footprints and all the publicity has died down, he's out parked in a secluded spot with his girlfriend. Suddenly the car starts to rock. They look up in surprise, and there's this humungous critter staring them in the face through the window. Whoooaaaaaaa!!! (Now wouldn't that be a sight to see?!!). So they hightail it outta there & go to the police to report it. Who's gonna believe it? Who's gonna even bother to investigate it? Yep. Noone. That's over & done with, and nothing was found back then. Police would just consider it another prank.

Not too much help for bigfoot research, but I'll betcha it sure would help in the cause for teen birth control!!

Even if it was good ole boys (that is, adults) out having a good time faking footprints, the same thing could happen. Imagine faking prints in your neighborhood, then a few months later having your mobile home dented by a large creature in the middle of the night!

Consequences, accountability, credibility. That's what it's all about. Think before you act...that's what I've always told my kids. Some adults never learn that. Haoxing is just stupid.


Hey, NATUREBOY, how come I can't sum it up like you can??? I'm jealous!!!

Two Words."Dave Shealy"

glendoor42, you're implying the credibility aspect here, right?

If so, then yes, that's what I mean...

You said it bigfootmorph!
I'm just a newbie, but I feel hoaxing just plain takes away from the credible encounters.
It's like crying wolf.

This is exactly some of the questions on Paul Freeman's photos and videos in the Blue Mountains of Washington State. Supposidly Freeman made some fake feet before moving to Walla Walla. Then a number of people beleive he faked some of the pictures he made. And that has effected peoples openion of him even if he did in fact get legitamate prints or pics. No one will beleive a hoaxer - even if he gets the best cast and the best photos ever. The trust of your peers may be the most important thing you have in the field. Lose it once and it can never be recovered.

3 words Littlefoot, STYLIN' and PROFILIN'! WOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (actually 4)

Just playing!! Thanks for the compliment!. . .that was a compliment, right??

Yup, NATUREBOY, ya got it right!

Unfortunately, I'm mostly toooooooo wordiful!!

For every hoax uncovered, another nail in the coffin for BF research. Only the fakes will be remembered, not any of the true evidence.

Hoaxing: If a person has any belief in Sasquatch whatsoever they'd be letting "themselves" down and giving the Bigfoot world in general a kick in the nuts it does not need...

Credibillity: Simple. Ya'll remember the little boy who cried wolf don't you?

Now I'm off too the baseless lies thread.......Hehe....

PERFECT example billkirbywofb. . .I of course have heard of Freeman and the fact that he faked prints and possibly 'other' things. When watching the IN SEARCH OF Tv show last week, they showed Freeman's footage. The first thing that came to my mind was FAKE.

Weird, was watching that again on LMS last night. Anyone else zoom in on the zoom in? Notice that " Barrel chested " bigfoot" has more a barrel chest in the stomach area ? Or how small the head is in comparrison to the body?

And yup, Bill ,good example.

I'll bet there ain't 5 people in America stupid enough to go out in the woods with a bigfoot costume on,,,0 people at night!!!!! Now I've got to warn ya, iffen you come in to my woodknocking at night in one of those things,, you're gonna get SHOT,,, Period!!!!!

Crew Chief

Thanks for the replies,i am glad to see most everyone on the same page,instead of wasting time, energy,and money on hoaxing ,the same energy should be put into looking for and proving the existance of bigfoot.

LOL! Yep, Freeman was lucky he didn't try his hoax in Powder Springs, GA. That probably would have been his last, for sure!

Yep. Not only did the person in the suit look fake, the whole encounter seemed way too convenient. Way too easy. Then Freeman's first words when he sees it are "Oh, there he goes". Yeah, right. I can promise you, if I ever see a B/F, I'll be looking for a change of Fruit of Da Looms real quick, not making quirky comments.

In my mind, why go through all the time and trouble of hoaxing when 99% of the population won't believe it anyway. Legitimate (in my opinion) visual evidence of Bigfoot is sometimes dismissed by the very people that are supposed to be 'experts'. The media crunch and violation of personal privacy, crank calls, etc, etc. has got to be overwhelming. I've often wondered if I had media-based evidence (photo, movie, audio recording) of Bigfoot, if I would simply use a Bigfoot organization as the presenter for the purpose of contact screening/isolation and just simply remain in the background.

Sam

Good post Sam,,, one more reason for NEEDING A BODY!!!!!!

Crew Chief

With all the trace evidence collected such as footprint casts, body cast, hair, scat, photographs, video, audio, and thousands of eyewitness accounts over the past 50-years, I feel we are no closer to proving the animal's existence than we were then. Sadly, I believe you are correct Crew Chief.

I believe the chance of having a Bigfoot encounter is like getting the winning numbers for Powerball. Walking away from that experience with anything less than a body is like tearing up that winning ticket. Showing people photographs, video, etc. of the encounter after the fact is like going to the Powerball headquarters with a picture of the winning ticket.

Need I say more?

Sam

I hate it Sam,, you know I went No Kill for about 2 months last year and I couldn't get the hang of getting all that camera gear in action fast enough!!! Flip the safety and I'm ready to go now!!!! We've just got to put one down!!!

Crew Chief

I would be curious as to the thoughts of T Biscardi and M Moneymaker on this subject!

[I believe the chance of having a Bigfoot encounter is like getting the winning numbers for Powerball. Walking away from that experience with anything less than a body is like tearing up that winning ticket. Showing people photographs, video, etc. of the encounter after the fact is like going to the Powerball headquarters with a picture of the winning ticket. ]

SEEING a bigfoot is EXACTLY like winning a large sum of money. There's the initial disbelief. "This can't be real" or "I must be dreaming".

Then comes the struggle between the brain and the heart. The brain says," No way". This can't be real. There's no way this is happening to me" or "These things simply don't exist". But the heart says. " It's real ol' hoss and no matter how many times you pinch yourself or blink your eyes, it ain't going away".

Then comes the time you accept the truth for what it is and prepare yourself to shoulder the responsibility of your good fortune. The hardest thing I had to do was to tell my friends and family. But in the case of BF, their saftey comes before my pride.

I'm not against killing one of these animals, I'm just not gonna be the guy that does it. In it's own ironic way, it's probably the best way to get them protected.

And if someone dies in a monkey suit, they should hand a medal to the shooter!

BOOM BOOM---OUT GO THE LIGHTS!!

Crew Chief:


You're right, Chief, not 5, but more likely 5000 people in America. And that's without monetary incentive! 5000 idiots = 100 per state. That's easy! The biggest hurdle would be finding a reasonable-enough looking bigfoot costume to get shot in! Offer to pay a little money, and you might have idiots lining up and you couldn't shoo them away! Just because you're smart & think things through doesn't mean everyone does, or is even capable of doing that. Then you have to consider the teenagers & college students who have the smarts, but don't necessarily consider the ultimate consequences of their actions. Nothin's ever gonna happen to them!! That's how they think.

Irresponsible people are all over the place. The fact remains, if you shot & kill one, it doesn't matter what they thought or why they did it, you are responsible for what you did.

Now on to the point of the whole discussion. I've always told my kids that there is a big difference between "what they want & what they need". I want to know if bigfoot exists. I don't need to know, or prove that bigfoot exists to anyone.

It's a matter of priority. Kill to prove, or let survive. I opt for the preservation of species.

I agree with CrewChief, on both accounts. If you're that stupid to walk around in the woods at night with a monkey suit on, you deserve whatever you get and we get alittle population control. Stupid people shouldn't breed. And I really believe the only way you're going to prove BF's existence is to present a body. Unfortunatly, this is due to all the hoaxes over the years. Bigfoot's in the news (even CNN) from Malayasia and people still look at you funny when you mention it. I think if they catch a hoaxer a good ole-fashioned public flogging is in order no matter what website they "run" or how many people they can con into buying a streaming video of "the great capture".

Hey, one more thing to think about: what if you're running around in your suit and bump into a "lonely" BF? That's an interesting story at the ER.....

Just remember everybody, if you come over to the kill side of this issue you have to have your ducks in a row.. Most states consider coyotes non game and you can hunt em anytime of the year. Except for WMA's any weapon is allowed and most let 6volt lights be used. Hang a preditor call around your neck and don't tell em you're hunting bigfoot if you do meet a game warden out there!!!! YOU'RE COYOTE HUNTING and thats that!!! Also make sure you have a Hunting License, that'll get you busted quicker than anything out there.. If you don't handle it this way,,, you're gonna see the local jail for poaching deer and thats for sure!!!!! Good luck and Shoot straight!!! Here I am stuck at work today,,, can you believe it???

Crew Chief

Why wouldn't it?



Spot on, bud!

`Tis true, `tis a pity. `Tis a pity `tis true.

Again, two words: Darwin Awards.



True, with the possible exception of someone like Jane Goodall having a personal encounter, producing photos maybe. But I get your point. Even with BF's increased media attention, lately, not everyone's reading the stories, or if something's on TV I'll wager more often than not it's simply dismissed as "Oh criminey, not that bigfoot crap again,"



LOL!! It would certainly be a deterent!



I mentioned this very possibility in another thread, here, somewhere. "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!"

My sentiments exactly. At one time I thought I'd go through the "Southern Oregon Bigfoot Society", here, locally,...but then I discovered they're largely para-oriented, so -=PLONK=-, they're out. Next, I figured, okay, the B.F.R.O. then;...not anymore, though. -=PLONK=-, they're out, too. So, in my mind this leaves the BFF and possibly SRI,...with copies of evidence maybe also eventually sent to Jane Goodall (or, her institute anyway) and/or ????

-Sigh- Yeah, I know what you mean,...though I doubt I could actually drop the Big Guy even if I had `im scoped, for three reasons:

(1) My philosophy has always been I ain't droppin' it unless I'm either planning to eat it, or it is planning to eat me or otherwise do me and/or whoever's with me bodily harm (rats don't count).

(2) Would a .30 cal rifle with off-the-rack ammo be weapon enough to do the job, and how many shots would I get (all depending on the circumstances of course)? And even if I could drop the Big Guy with a shot or two, I'd also have to be ready for his/her angry relatives who might have been nearby witnessing the event (an unstrapped .50 cal Desert Eagle comes to mind),...and then I'd have to get the sucker into my FIL's truck somehow,...and then I'd have to cold-store the carcass somewhere (hopefully not in pieces),...and then I'd likely have to deal with the law, the media and everything and everybody else,...and then,...

(3) I probably just wouldn't have the heart/cajones to squeeze the trigger, particularly considering the many reported hunter sightings basically claiming the same. Again, though, unless I felt my life (or someone else's) in jeopardy;...good luck claiming self-defense, even so. - It'd be too much like murder, and in fact might even actually be declared so, legally. Holy catz, I can almost hear P.E.T.A. now...!

While a "type specimen" may well do more good than harm, and I personally would not condemn, necessarily, whomever harvested such a specimen,...odds are that harvester will not be me. - OTOH, if I hit one with a car,...it'd probably do us both in, so I'm not even thinking along those lines. Hell, a few years back my MIL was drivin' home one night when a big ol' whitetail buck ran out and committed suicide into the passenger side of her van. Did HELLACIOUS damage, but her van remained essentially driveable, and since she did have a license-n-tag and was so close to home, she went and got her husband and they retreived-n-hung the luckless animal (later on down the line having my wife and I come out to help cut-n-wrap the sucker, for which effort we of course received a nice little pile o' venison cuts ourselves, including backstrap...YUM!!). Doubt if Mom could entice a BF to do the same thing, though,...or would even remotely want to.



Ain't gonna say you're spot on, here, but reeeeeal close all the same. I mean, I believe you can significantly increase you odds of having an encounter of some sort by camping in a hot spot, say, and maybe using the right baits, calls and behaviors. Any one or a combination of all. Assuming, of course, the veracity of various personal & expedition reports. I wouldn't go with a whole, noisy big buncha people, though. Wouldn't go alone, either, for just general safety reasons.

Crew Chief,...sincerely, if you do ever drop a Sas, absolute best of luck to you in all that comes afterwards!

This thread has gone way beyond the initial “To Hoax or Not to Hoax” idea. Should you hoax? In a word, no. Why? Because it could turn out to be lethal.

Some high school or college kid decides to put on a costume & run around out in the sticks scaring old folk. Kids are young & make errors in judgment. (Those old folk are you, by the way…) Seems harmless enough… One of those old folk gets a gun & shoots em. Who knows, you might be shooting your own kid or one of his friends, or maybe your best friend’s kid… Or maybe your buddy who's had a few too many... Adults do stupid things, too. Doesn't matter if it's a stranger, either...

Some things you just can’t change after it’s happened. It doesn’t really matter what it’s called… An accident, manslaughter, murder… If you did it, you have to live with what you’ve done the rest of your life. You did it, man! Doesn’t even matter @ that point what the consequences are (as in jail or whatever…), ya just plain did it.

Think about it… Then let’s hear ya talk.

That’s my opinion for tonight.
I think a little common sense is required here.


SOFoggy:


Edited to add a line...

Good post littlefoot. One of the other things that everyone seems to forget is that wether its a person hoaxing or in a costume or not. if you feel that they deserve to be shot and you're willing to do the deed. Murder is still murder, and if you're that quick to pull the trigger, then you're about the last person who should be out in the woods looking to "prove" bigfoot exists. You're just as likely to shoot someone such as myself who happenes to wear dark clothingas you are someone who is wearing a costume IMO.
From some of the responses in this thread ,I'd have to say that some are failing to realize the responsibility and consequesnces of these actions. At least for all intents and purposes thats how it reads and I hope I'm wrong. But If I'm not, do me a favor and stay as far the hell away from as you possibly can.

Good post JimF.I can understand why you're are concerned with people in dark clothing and/or in costume getting shot.


http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&...ndpost&p=288964

Is this what you wear when you're hunting Bigfoot or do you just wear this for special occasions?

ROTFLMAO!!!

Sorry,couldn't resist,found that post a fewdays ago while reading old posts. Uhh, cute legs by the way.

OK everybody, Me and my Daughter'll be setting up in the swamp in Paulding Forrest this morning. STAY AWAY.. iffen you know whats good for you!!!! Don't let the game warden see you putin a suit on either cause We've Got Laws Against Harrassng Hunters here in Ole Georgia!!!! We've been hearing some stories from hunters about somthing strange going on in there so we'll see if we can do some damage Today!!! Its about 30,000 Hecktares so I can't say how long it'll take to recon this place out. Anyway,,, wish us Luck!!!! Oh ya for you shutter bugs out there we are going to try to get the shot on video,, that should be cool!!!!

Crew Chief