Hi folks,

This idea came to me as a result of a discussion where it was observed that a beach scenario might be good for a long sniper shot. Sasquatch has been observed with a fair degree of regularity on remote PNW beaches, also has been seen on lakeshores inland and this method might also work there.

I'm thinking that if you had a fast boat, capable of beaching, with something like a jet drive so you can ram her ashore without worrying about snags. We're thinking of a tough hull here and fairly shallow draft. Then you mounted on it something like a harpoon gun capable of throwing a weighted net a fair distance, and also a high powered spotlight. That you might have a setup capable of getting a live specimen from a beach.

Sasquatch reportedly takes little notice of boats and presumably in season has interest in marine and aquatic food sources. He has also been reported to freeze when spotlighted from a boat at night. I'm thinking one might chug quietly up and down a remote coastline, or inland lake, waiting for sas to appear on the beach, easing the boat as close as possible while he settles down to collect clams or whatever. Then if you froze him with the spot, gunned the engine and headed straight for him, he might be frozen long enough to bring him in range of the net launcher, you attempt to get the net on him and run the boat right up on the beach immediately so your trusty, husky pals can help you hogtie him and subdue him somewhat. Then you might be able to give him shots of tranquiliser, little by little and observe the effect, until he's docile enough. Then you could load him aboard the boat and make your getaway back to civilisation. Of course you'd figure on having a boat capable of taking another 1000lbs or so load besides your equipment.

This plan appeals to me in that it allow for rapid transport into the Sasquatch's vicinity and rapid transport out. Offers a chance of hauling equipment sufficient for a no kill specimen aquisition and has a chance of taking sas completely by surprise.

Don't think I'll ever have the resources to try this, but I thought I'd throw the idea out for discussion to see what you guys thought. Netting is basically not an option in the woods, and tranquing him with darts ain't ideal either. Just wondering if this could be worked up into a plausible strategy for aquiring a live one.

Flash.

Ooooookay.

Take it easy there, Capt. Ahab.

I will agree with you only as far as the observation from water scenario goes Flashman.
This is a pet plan of mine which will be coming together over the winter, hopefully!
but, as for capturing with a beach assault....I think you would have to be the luckiest son of a gun alive..if you could pull that one off!

Yeah, realise it might take quite a while to find a sasquatch in a convenient position to be able to even attempt this. However, I think it's got a lot to recommend it over some schemes like trying to dart and net from a helicopter, or trying to dart it in the woods and get it out, as far as ideas for live capture go.

Even if you screw up the capture you might get some real interesting video out of it with a bow mounted camera.

Flash, I'll agree with you that the idea of trying to get video from a cam mounted to the bow of a boat is a good idea, considered doing that myself.

But the thought of sharing a boat on the water with a big tranquilized monkey kinda freaks me out. I'll leave that one for the pro's.

i dont know if it has been talked about on a previous thread but even monkey are 10 times stronger than a human, so unless you have either the Hulk or some roided up baseball players there is no way you could takedown a sas. but i do think the boat idea is a good idea for observation and video, anyway if you do do thwe beach assualt good luck.

Flashman:

I'll also go along with GC's opinion on the your idea of observing (and possibly filming) Sasquatch from a boat on the water as being a good one. However, as the past owner of a V8-powered jet boat, I'll have to say that I think the engine noise would probably spook Sasquatch long before you got close enough to get your plan into action.

Don't give up on the boat plan, it's a good one for sure.

Bushman

I like the boat idea, but as for storming the beachs of Normandy, I cant see it. Why not just tranquilize from the boat while trying to blind him with a light?, Then you dont need any net, just lots of rope and lots more tranquilizer.


oh, also, I dont think bow mounted cameras work too well. They bob up and down with the boat.

I think such a plan would be too expensive at this point. After discovery there would be many more enthusiastic donors which would make a live capture possible.

Also, anything mounted to a boat (camera, gun, etc) would not likely work well because of the action of the boat maneuvering in the sea. Even long term observation with binoculars from an anchored boat in a protected bay would be more difficult than doing so from shore, with the boat swinging back and forth against the anchor with the tide and/or wind and even small waves/chop from the wind.

By setting up a camp well within the forest, and situating your observation point at the edge of the forest so you can see across and up/down the bay you dramatically reduce the visibility of your movement within the camp. The observation point can be set up as a blind, where you have cover from the weather and your movements there are shielded from view. The wind, which usually moves up and down the bay and not across, wouldn't necessarily be at your disadvantage. Four people would be ideal; each having a 6 hour observation shift, or two three hour shifts. A 50 BMG rifle mounted on a tripod would enable reasonable shots out to 1/2 mile, and would pack enough power so that any hit in the torso would be a killing shot. In such a camp, if you had enough food/supplies, you could literally stay for weeks. A satellite phone would enable communications for emergency, resupply, or extraction by boat.

counterstrike is an AWESOME game, hey?

Paint, I'll row the boat while you hold the monkey. Deal?

You're right it would be expensive. But there are image stabilized cameras on the market. They are often used by news helicopters as well as marine applications and could get great pictures from a boat. It would be a good idea for at least getting some good pictures while floating offshore if someone had the money to fund it.

And they say the military is a good thing.......

There are new (in 2006), propane powered, silent Hummers. While the boat crew was preparing to launch the net, the Hummer crew could come in the back way, armed with self propelled, Titanium Molybdenum Sulfur Dioxide (Tranquilizer) coated composite netting, similar to what the Predator shoots in the "Alien VS. Predator" movie. I saw some for sale at Sportmans Warehouse. Assuming that there were cameras mounted on both front and rear bumpers of the Hummer, if the boat crew or netting from the vehicle failed, at least crystal clear, dead on footage of the Sasquatch, Clam sauce notwithstanding, would be obtained. I am considering an expedition like this for Caddo Lake, Texas. Please keep the location "under wraps" for now.


Netgun:
The netgun is a typically hand-held (optional mounting, see below) device that fires a Titanium-filament netting that expands to ensnare prey. However, the weapon releases the netting with such force that after enmeshing a victim, the victim is thrown back with the force of the blow.  Also attached to the netting are barbed devices which embed themselves into any solid object and serve to pin the quarry against said foundation until a ground crew arrives.
The Netgun can be appropriated to be vehicle, marine, bicycle or equine mounted. The Titanium monofilament netting is available in several application suitable blends and colors, and would be especially suitable for Cryptids, amongst these; large, elusive hominids in particular.


Netgun

I'm worried about this part because the Sasquatch might not like it and proceed to wrap you and buddies up with the boat in the net and swing you out to sea.

Uh, OK.

Gotta dig out the handy dandy duct tape :help:



And the "Depends"

oh really, actually I was gonna ask the navy to borrow their new stealth boat and rent the spiderman suit from the last movie... :rolleyes:

Ummm yeah, realise a net won't hold 1000lb of furious primate very long, it's basically to fill the gap between the spot stunning it and driving the boat up the beach with a bunch of guys jumping out and pulling the net tighter/running ropes around, such that you get it pinned enough a small dose of tranq can be shot in it, dose increased by increments until it's calm. Now you could shoot a well loaded dart from a longer range, but some critters take to tranqs like they're cyanide, and some are barely phased by enough to drown the sucker in, so you play it by ear, little bit at a time, if you really don't want to kill it by accident or have it run off complaining the skeeters are getting bigger round here lately. Also a single dart approach may put enough tranq in it to put it out for 48 hours, but it might be one of the critters that won't succumb to it quick enough, and could be miles away before it dropped otherwise.

If you were real worried about sharing the boat with it on the trip back, you could always bring along a big inflatable raft to tow it back on.

Probably anyone with any boat could make a decent go of getting pictures or film though. Wave motion is fairly regular and can be anticipated, odd wave would catch you out but you'd get half minute or so periods between those I suspect, so you could make a fair go of the pics just hand steadying the cam. Probably would want to be close enough for magnifications under 10x to be effective though. Higher than that are difficult enough to free brace on land.

OMG, that's FUNNY!!!!! :rotflmao:


(OK I have a sick sense of humor )

Reminds me of Gulliver's Travels

ok ok, i was INSPIRED by this idea!!

ive got the team STANDING BY!!!

we gots guns, nets, jetty boats wif dat dere kevelar armor and radar deflecting paint, heliochoppers wif lazer guided tranquizer machineguns!!

we gots tents, stoves, axes, machetes, night camoflauge, humm-v's, tree stands, game cams!!!

we done all got really really GOOD at doin that prissy assault walk wif our M-4's and MP-5's wif so much stuff hung off em we can barely hold up the guns!!!!

we gots ketchup, mustard, sweet relish, hog-maw sauce!

man we is gots EBERTHANG!!!!!!

now yall tell us WHERE th damn biggyfoot critters is, we is RARIN to GO!!!!



hey?


anybody?

*crickets*

How bout' waiting for one to swim....you see his head start bobbing as he leaves the shore, let him get out there a way. Then charge, do a Jaques Cousteau great white kinda net assault tranq. thing.


These things are big and strong! That way it wouldn't be on land.

Well of course he's not here.
It's pretty late for a 12 year old.
Even ones with such active imaginations.

I will say this - This marks the first time I've even heard anyone discussing any kind of a plan to capture a BF live!

Carry on.

Or, you could always mount one of these suckers on that boat.

A Beach Assault on an ol Squatch... why do it yourself? Call in the Marines!

That would be a site, a full scale military beach assault for one lonely squatch.

Ya know, I'm in danger of taking you seriously. I've not seen any reports of them swimming though, and dunno how you'd encourage one to take to the water. "Hey, monkey boy, your momma so dumb she thought Pythagorus was a dinosaur! Yeah! Wanna piece of me!" and then you wouldn't want to do it from a small boat, more like a marine research vessel of the size that can handle killer whales. Thinking about it though, they've been seen on remote islands off the BC coast where the island wouldn't seem big enough to support one for long. So I guess they must swim across. Then you'd want to pick a spot with a fairly deep channel I guess so you could pass a net way underneath him. Figure the guys with the right equipment are more interested in relict whales and sharks, giant squid and trilobytes though.

I have a suspicion that Sasquatch may cross the great lakes when they're frozen over in the winter, allowing migration between the northern ontario sighting areas and the ohio/pennsylvania/new york sighting areas. Now since getting the equipment is about as likely as old Sas knocking on your door and asking if he might come in for a cup of coffee and an interview about how he's so grossly misunderstood, this is all purely theoretical. But if he does cross the frozen lakes, and somehow you got hold of an Arctic/Antarctic marine research vessel with an icebreaking bow, you might be able to cut him off on the ice, and dunk him and fish him out. However if he is crossing the lakes, there's probably as much reason to suppose that he swims across in warmer weather. He's only probably got a month in either season though, one in winter when the ice is fast enough, and one in summer when the water is warm enough.

Anyhoo, really just shootin' the sh!t now, but I think opportunities to catch a squatch when he's not in the thick timber should be considered carefully.

Flash.

Well here's a start:
From BCSCC

A coworker was active in tracking and tranquilizing all kinds of big game here, including brown bears.

One year a pair of 2 year old grizzly littermates were making trouble around here, and they had to be dealt with. A couple of weeks of wild helicopter flights and mad jeep chases with tranquilizer guns eventually resulted in both being tranquilized. Then they were flown by Blackhawk (on different flights) across Cook Inlet (where they probably shortly started raiding cabins).

I asked my friend what would happen if a bear started to awaken during the flight.

He didn't hesitate to say that something was getting pushed out before he jumped.

You know why the little boy pirate couldn't get into the movie?




























It was rated "Yaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr."

What about using a canoe or a kayak?

They are quieter.

A canoe would be better as you can move around more in it and it may be more useful if your trying to snipe from the water.

TKD

I would take a boat close enough to take note of his position, but far enough away as to not to disturb him. A scuba diver would navigate in the general direction of the bigfoot, coming slowly if need be to gauge positioning. A tranquilising gun would be mounted near to the oxygen tank. Appropriate dosage so as to knock him out within seconds. Once a sucessful shot is taken, the boat comes in to net the animal and then pulled onto the boat with a ramp. Or as you say, carry a separate raft for safer travelling.

Ah sir... but how do you determine "appropriate" for an animal that has never been studied* even if it exists .

Edit - *Sorry - forgot Foxx & co....

That would be determined by the apparent size of the animal, whatever is used to knock out a rhino IMO.

I was going to do a full post on this, but here is my idea in short form.

Use a remote controlled boat to search for sasquatch along rivers and streams. The boat is controlled by satellite phone with night vision cameras and a tranq gun. The boat is electric, silent, camouflaged, and solar power rechargeable.

When you shoot sasquach, it includes a phosphorescent die. You have about an hour to come by helicopter to the boat's GPS coordinates and retrieve the live sasquatch via search and rescue helicopter. Sasquatch is taken to a primate center, like in Louisiana, or a zoo, prearranged.

... sell many tickets, get rich, retire (LOL)!

Can I have your boat after the Sasquatch is done with you all?

You should read "The Strangest Story Ever Told".

I thought I did!

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=13603

Actually I've heard stranger than that even

very interesting idea

reminds of a line from a movie:

"We need a bigger boat"

When I first heard that line in the movie I thought -"You guys need a bigger brain".

Flashman I applaud your "thinking outside of the box". Keep up the ideas, you just might come upon on that sounds so crazy it might actually work, but the beach assault needs some work... Unfortunately we have no clue as to how many cc's of tranquilizer it would take to efficiently keep it asleep for a certain period of time. Second, trying to get a 800lb.+/- into a boat/raft would prove to be a chore and a half and if you decided to use flotation devices and just drag it away you have to somehow keep it from rolling over and drowning. Remember this is a constructive critique, keep the ideas coming!

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that tranquilizing animals is actually pretty tricky because it is not entirely a factor of weight. There are apparently large animals - like a rhino - that will be killed if they are drugged at the same dosage used on something smaller - like a pig.

How "hard" a drug effects something is species specific.

Give how differently human beings will react to the same medications, this is not very surprising once you think about it in those terms.

I have a wild vision of a beach-combing sasquatch being captured Steve Irwin style:
One of those police riot netguns being used to slow the beast down and Steve, Wezz and a pile of other guys jumping onto the thing to pin it down. Not sure it would be really practical... pretty sure it would have the potential to be the most-watched Croc Hunter ever broadcast.

Yeah, I've read a lot of Gerald Durrell and David Taylor and similar books, and gathered from those how tricksy tranquilising animals is. I'd want a vet along who had worked on primates and exotics and was very familiar with anesthesiology in large critters. I'd want to at least try and get it sedated, with careful ramping of dose, otherwise you risk it dying of shock. Needs careful monitoring and quick transport out if you're gonna have him trussed as well, otherwise you're starting to worry about aneurisms and thrombosis from it being in one position for too long. Also large creatures have a habit of getting fluid in the lungs and drowning when left on one side too long.

Sometime, somewhere Apeman (who I'm fairly certain has hands-on experience in sedating big animals) has, I'm almost certain - but I can't find it - given his views on this very subject. Mine was a light-hearted comment anyway, 'cus to be honest IMHO it's a pretty light-hearted thread .

Edited: 'cus I thought I sounded a bit p*ssy & that was not my intention.

Love it!

On the tranquilizing scenario, got a question following my comment.
JMO opinion, I would think that "IF" someone had the opportunity to dart one of these creatures, and secure it while under sedation, whether or not it was being transported by boat, it would be an extemely dangerous situation for the humans involved.

As was allready brought up by other posters "we do not know the reccomended dosage" for these animals. We also "do not know" how a sedative would react with the animals biologic makeup.

Presuming a sedative ratio in reference to weight does "NOT" gaurantee the amount of time that the animal will be in a state of la-la land.

The only experience I've had is with horses and a certified vet administering the happy juice by intravanious injection into a vein that takes affect within a minute or two.
"Darting" an animal is "wherever" that dart makes contact. JMO, it's not going to drop the animal into la-la land imediately. Your taking the risk of having one big pissed off monkey and not knowing what kind of destruction it could do to you or how far it could run before the drug takes affect.

How long will the sedation last?
NO ONE KNOWS

I've seen horses come out of sedation in a very mellow state. And I've also witnessed the most docile horses coming out of sedation with wanting to eat the nearest human for breakfast.
It all depends on the animal's genetic make-up.

Do we have any vets that visit this board to give their input?
Sosha, I hope you still visit here, I remember you work with wild animals, would appreciate your comments.

I hope no one ever tries to dart a BF before considering all of the things you bring up. I think many might think a dart "would" work immediately. As you say, there's no telling what a BF would be capable of after getting darted. You can count on there being at least some time before the tranq takes affect - if it takes affect at all. Luck being what it is, you can almost take it to the bank that just when you think you're finally prepared to do something like that - BF won't be anywhere around.

I've pondered different scenarios in my mind of a BF being captured, and I can't see one of them working so far. It is going to take some very serious thought, consideration, coordination and who knows what else, to pull that one off. I am glad to see someone at least discussing it though. Despite Peter Burne being well-funded and having access to some stuff no one else has - I'll bet even he hasn't figured that one out yet. (Not sure he would tell us if he did.) To be sure, even with what he has available - it wouldn't necessarily be available at the moment he needs it. In looking at his involvement and what it is - it is almost unthinkable that he hasn't had a sighting yet.

Fascinating thread. Most of my thoughts have already been covered by others so I will not rehash them. But seriously, how many would volunteer to man a boat with a rather large, potentially lethal creature, that could wake up at any moment in a very bad mood. Call me chicken, but not I. The only sure and safe way to do this would be to use lethal force. Not advocating it, just saying that if you do not, you had better pray that you get the drug dosage correct.

Might be better run as a two boat operation, one to do the amphib and the other to film and as a backup or emergency team.

Finally, on a related note, I saw recently that the Danish government is looking to unload some RPV's that did not work out for them. If one had the money (lots of it ), it might be something to look into. Using one for remote survelliance is something that we have all dreamed about at some point.

First off I want to say that it is much easier to criticize than it is to be creative.

Anyway, just for fun I thought I would play with some numbers and see if I could come up with an ‘educated’ estimate as to how strong these creatures may be. What got me thinking about this was the concept of using a capture net possibly restrained by humans.

I guess the best way to go about this is to use some knowns and extrapolate from there.

From this website comes weight and strength numbers for a chimpanzee.

http://www.projectprimate.org/chimps/naturalhistory.shtml

It shows male chimps weighing 175 pounds, or more, and having a relative strength of seven times that of a human. 175 pounds is certainly well within the neighborhood of the normal weight range for an adult human male, so I thought we could use the 7-times strength ratio directly. In other words, if I were to assume an athletic human male of say a height of 6 feet and a weight of 250 pounds (thinking bodybuilder physique here) could bench press 200 pounds 10-times (should not be a problem), then if this human were as relatively strong as a chimp, he should be able to bench press 1400 pounds 10-times without a problem!

Before we go any further, I want to clarify the reason I selected a male chimp and male human comparison is because that is what I had data on and due to the fact that men generally have a greater upper body strength than women (I’m not trying to leave you ladies out!).

Continuing on with some more numbers…….

Bigfoot have been estimated to weigh anywhere in the range of 400~1000 pounds. Because the numbers we have associate strength with weight, we need a Bigfoot weight to work with to then estimate/calculate its strength. This all assumes of course a Bigfoot is pound-for-pound seven times stronger than a human (which it may not be). Before we simply apply the 7-times rule to an estimated average Bigfoot weight, lets see if these estimated weights ‘ring true’.

Using the athletic male example from above of 6-feet tall at 250 pounds, we should be able to extrapolate a male Bigfoot weight from this (Bigfoot has been described on many occasions as having the physic of a super-athletic human). Eye witness height estimates for male Bigfoot fall somewhere into the 8~9 foot range. These estimates are probably a lot closer than the weight estimates eyewitnesses provide, simply because it is much easier to estimate height, than weight.

For animals of similar proportion, or for that matter any 3-dimensional objects of similar proportion and density, will have a mass (weight) that will vary with the cube of height.
Applying this to our example, we take the ratio of the estimated average Bigfoot height (8.5 feet) in respect to our athletic human example height (6 feet) and cube it.

(8.5 / 6) = 1.416 => 1.416^3 = 2.84

If we now apply the weight multiplication factor (2.84) for an 8.5-foot tall Bigfoot to our athletic human example weight of 250 pounds, we get:

2.84 * 250 pounds = 710 pounds

Just for fun, if we use the top-end of the typical male Bigfoot estimated height of 9 feet; we get a weight scale factor of:

(9 / 6) = 1.5 => 1.5^3 = 3.375

If we apply the weight multiplication factor for a 9-foot Bigfoot, we get:

3.375 * 250 pounds = 844 pounds!

Anyway, it looks like eyewitness weight estimates aren’t too far off the mark. Keep in mind; these are estimates assuming similar proportion and density. Personally, from photographic evidence and educated guesstimate (?), I feel a male Bigfoot has a proportionally larger build than say a 6-foot 250 pound athlete and I suspect has a greater density, largely due to increased muscle density that comes from proportionally greater strength (like the male chimp at 4-foot tall and 175 pounds that does not look ‘fat’). Based upon this, a male Bigfoot 9-feet tall and weighing close to 1000 pounds is not outside the realm of possibility, in my opinion.

OK, getting back to strength estimate, if we use our human example of a 250 pound athlete bench pressing 200 pounds 10-times, this then say the athlete is bench pressing 80% of his body weight. If we apply the 7-times strength rule, we get:

(80% * 7) = 560%

We apply this to our 8.5 foot tall Bigfoot at an estimated 710 pounds, we get:

560% * 710 pounds = 3976 pounds!!

Using this estimate, this say an 8.5 foot tall Bigfoot could bench press a mid-size SUV about 10-times!

I don’t think I would volunteer to be on the other end of that net!

Sam

OMG I loved when they called you AHAB! :rotflmao: Also, I couldn't stop chuckling when you talked about netting the Sasquatch! :rotflmao: and someone said you needed Spider-Man to help. You don't need Spider-Man...just Apache Chief and the Wonder Twins, Wendy and Marvin. "Wonder-Twin Powers activate...form of an ice floor...shape of a wooden bench...C'mon Apache Chief...push the Sasquatch over the bench." Ok, I give up. I'm just having some fun. No offense intended, but netting the Sasquatch is not an option. Dr. Krantz was right. Either you shoot one or the mystery continues. That's unfortunate, but probably the only way this will be resolved.

Oh...just a post-script. I've heard many of my friends say "why hasn't anyone found a dead Sasquatch in the woods?" Um...right. When was the last time you saw putrefication and maggots in dead tissue while in the woods and said "hey, maybe that's a Sasquatch...I'll go check it out." Highly unlikely, and a highly idiotic question.

I think the overall idea of darting has its merits, just remember one thing. Make sure the guy back in the boat never stops filming, especially the part where you are trying to cover BF's eyes with a beach towel and his mate, (the one you didn't see) starts beating you to death with your own leg. :blacknblue: :help:


dav