hello all. we made it back to the "our area" of intrest, and we found the remains of the dead sheep. and how do we know this, it had the same ear tag! the body was stripped of all meat, of course it has been 3 weeks since we last saw it. one thing i found was that one leg was broke. i read in some Ohio reports that farmers were finding dead sheep on their property with a broken neck and one leg broken. a BFRO investigator was contacted and he speculated it was BF related. not sure on the sheep but just putting it out there. the remains were found in the general area of the first sighting(of the sheep) we also drove to some higher ground and i saw a great spot to cross an area, just luck, maybe. i stopped the truck walked into the wood-line and found what we think is one lft foot-print. it measured 15in.X 8in toe to toeX 6in. at the heel. we took pics but of course we were not close enough to the print to see in great detail. we set some bait out for the second time, we are trying to bait an area on a somewhat constant basis. next time we will set up game-cam and mirror. we will also try and make it to the fish hatchery and fish pond that is due north of both sheep and print. once. anyone intrested in going with we could sure use the help. KIDWOLF?????

Oh, yeah. There's a vote of confidence.

The remains were just likely moved to a 'safe' area by a common predator and eaten, then stripped by other, smaller critters.



Post 'em anyway. Maybe someone will catch something you guys missed.

hi nighthunter wow thats a definetly interesting post. yes please post the photos. thanks bill

will post pics. question to the group. is it significant that we found the print near an ass load of berry bushes? the berries arent in season, just wondering. there was water very near that area, and its away from the road. also, we think terrain has alot to do with sasquatch movement. the sheep was nrth of where we 1st found it, the track is nrth of the sheep carcass and the fish hatchery and fish pond are nrth of everything. we think we have stumbled on a route, just guessing. their are some major clear cuts in that area. all signs we have picked up are away from the clear cuts. we will be getting to some higher ground to see if there is a visible route that can be taken in between all the clear cuts. just a thought.

Not really. Not unless you have some way of correalting sasquatch with berry bushes. Like a clear video of a sasquatch...doing something--anything--in berry bushes.

The following would also be potentially helpful:

type of berries
definition of "near"
definition of "ass load"
picture of print! with scalar reference



Very good. Be prepared to document. Just a thought.

Nighthunter, you state you found the remains of the dead sheep. I realize that after 3 weeks there isn't much left, especially since it was stripped, and obviously many different predators made a snack of it.
Was the carcass intact?

Was it a front or hind leg that was broke?
You mentioned other reports of farmers finding dead sheep with broken legs and necks. Predators such as coyotees, even domesticated dogs running in packs will grab onto a hind leg to bring down their prey while another goes for the neck. The pressure of the bite, along with the weight of the predator, yotee, dog, etc. is sufficient enough to snap legs and necks of sheep.

You've gotta watch black bear tracks close. If they are just meandering around when the rear paw hits the front paw track it'll make it look human like!!! Washington has black bears, right???

Crew Chief

A couple of questions related to this post and the last post on this subject.

Did anyone ever contact the owner of the sheep to see where it went missing from and when ? I remember it being said that someone tracked down the tag owner in the last post.

Also how far was it (just guess) from where you seen it the first time ?
I would say most animals that can drag or carry a sheep would just move it to the first location they could find that was safe for them to eat it in peace. If it was much father then that I would start to wonder why it was taken to that location. One of the reasons I can think of to carry it farther is maybe to a den with young to let them feed on it some. Might be worth looking around the area for something like that.

Where is this exact location, so everyone can google it?
Did you find any hair samples? Perhaps you could also take the carcass for DNA analysis, for example, saliva. You could see a specialist about determining what kind of animal/s ate off this carcass, i.e. bite marks can be plaster casted. However, if there's not much left, that may not be possible.

Yes, we do Chief.

I may be interested depending on when and where.

corrections: Ohio posts, were deer not sheep. also the area we found the track was near a road that had berry bushes on both sides of the road from begining of road to about 3 miles up the road. there were berry bushes in multiple areas. i know that an animal that is the prey can recive a broken neck and leg from reg. forest predators, just noticed similarities from what was reported in Ohio. as far as help. let me know when u are avialable. we go on leave soon and will have lots of time off.

Hello all, i am sorry about the delay these pics took but someone thought it was funny to ram their car drunk into the cavle box for the area and take out my tv and internet, let me tell you a boreing 4 days, any ways to hit the points my college made in more detail, the sheeps body was within 100m of the first location, there were not alot of bite marks on the bones and the hind leg was snaped in a clean break. as for hair samples and bite marks and the like nothing was really found, also as it was raining and this was just a day hike we did not linger over long over the sheep. now on to the print, first off this was the first time ever find even a possible print and along with the rain and the location the pics came out horrible looking, i used a small tape measure to show size but the flash washed it out! and then with the flash you can not even tell a print is there, i am truthfully embaresed to put these pics up but i will. as for ass loads of berries it was around 50+ large plants in and going down a intersection. as for why a bf would eat berries you have to think a large animal is always looking for food, and even then it needs different food to get all the minerals and vitamins it would need, like iron and Vit E from a liver and berries provide something i can not remember right now. as for black bears yes they are in the state but the wildlife reports i checked out say they are further to the north then we were. well here goes the pics

I think I'm having a flashback....

ok here are the pics i have been fighting a computer war the last few hours.

Sheep head. see the tag!!

here are the bones

ok here is the foot print remember i am ashamed to post this. if you look up near the top where the edge of the tape is you can see a smashed in mushroom and that is where the left toe imprint is and the foot goes out from there

here is a pic of some bait we left out, we tried to lay it out in a patten hoping for something

Ok. Nevermind defining "assload".

That is one assload of maggots.

Seems like pretty cut and dried predation to me.

Middle predator--coyote?--takes out prey animal, consumes vitals. Scavengers--vultures?--strip remaining carcass. Carcass becomes breeding ground for bottom scavengers--maggots! I get pretty grossed out. :yuck:

Bigfoot remains undiscovered.

edit to add: Thanks for posting the pics.

The thing is this sheep is a high doller breeding sheep also the sheep area we found near there was well protected with big fences and there were not a lot of sheep present, the issue i am having with this is three fold, the sheep is rather large and all of the coytoes i have seen would be smaller then the sheep, the body was found a good ways away from the far and the intional encounter, and again this is a expensive thing to be let eatten by coyotes, and i need to check with nighthunter about this but i dont think coytoes are in that area.

Coyotes are everywhere!

ok. for all who posted on sheep. let me say this again. when we first found the sheep we moved the truck and got more equipment out(game cam) total 10 minutes. when we walked back to the sheep it was gone. we were back in the area 3 weeks later. and NO s**t every little thing in the woods got a taste of the sheep. the simple fact that it was moved with us within 50 meters of it and no one passed us on the road. whatever moved it moved it within minutes of us first finding it. so yeah, maybe a coyote dragged it off, or a bear, wolf, cougar or whatever u can think of. but, whatever moved it did it with us very near and whatever moved it didnt drag it, we would have seen drag marks. everyone is forgetting that importand part of this story. this is not our 1st time in the woods. we have trained for years in the woods. and we use other soldiers to track and find. we are not that dumb. we did find one lft footed print.... the photo sucks, but if u were there u would belive it also. anyone that is intrested in helping us, by getting out there with us plz let me know. we are serious about investigating this area. thank u- two not so stupid soldiers

Emphasis is mine.

That depends on the sheep. If it was one of those "farm" sheep, it likely would not have tried to defend itself, probably just tried to run, and im sure everyone can agree sheep can be pretty low in the intelligence department.

If it was a "wild" sheep maybe the size of it would have daunted the coyotes.

Remember, wolves take on much larger creatures all the time.

Nighthunter I do not think anyone is calling you stupid. Read on for constructive info.

This is a fourm use it for what it is but do not get all pissed off, that's a waste of energy. I also have spent a bit of time in the woods and what follows is simply my opinion/suggestions. Hey, you were there, not me. If what you reason tells you Bigfoot, get on it. Less talk, more action. If you do not like my info, move on to the next post.

There are assloads :rotflmao: of coyote's in that area as well as black bear and just because you do not see them there are many cougar and bobcat as well, there are No wolf.

In 1996 an Initiative was passed that outlawed using dogs/hounds to hunt cougar/bear in Wa. State, since then their populations have skyrocketed. I do believe a pilot program is underway to reinstate the use of hounds in cougar hunting but only on the east side of the mountains. Anyway an assload of berry bushes ( in season or not ) equals bear country in my world and contrary to what most people may think many lowland bear in this state Do Not hibernate, except in hard winters. The bear may go from a den to a tree hollow sleeping for a day or two after a good meal but that's it.

As far as the sheep being moved 50 - 100 meters from the original location a bear or a cougar could easily have picked it up with their mouth/jaws and moved it, both animals can carry an estimated 1/3rd to 1/2 their body weight in their mouth. Odds are a coyote could have drug it there also but then there are all the people that were using the road ( interesting ).

A cougar can have a fairly large top canine separation, 1 and 1/2 to 2 and 1/2 inches ( bob cat 3/4 to an 1 inch ), the lower about 1/2 inch smaller, look for marks on the upper head and neck as well as the larynx area. A bear would seem more likely because they peel away the hide exactly like the picture shows the only problem with this theory is that a bear ( and cat ) generally will cover the carcass with leafs and branches, though not always. With a bear look for bite marks on the face ( 3-4 inch canine separation ) they also kill with blows to the head, especially smaller prey ( look closely at the bones and skull ).

The next thing that comes to mind would be the human equation, since both bear and cougar seasons were open at the time it is possible that someone saw an opportunity to get around the no bait/dog law and moved the carcass to an area were they could sit back and get a clean shot. Was the carcass in an area like that? If so when you go back look around for some sort of blind, anything that says human, probably close to the road, people are lazy ( maybe a tree stand ). I would not put it passed any local down there to throw the carcass in back of truck and come back later to station it.

By no means should you leave out a coyote, they are pretty impressive little dogs. Coyote's love sheep and kill them quite often, they would also have to drag the sheep and are skittish enough that they would bail at the first sign of humans. All coyotes will basically kill sheep the same way, they grab the top side of the neck first to stop the sheep then they will grab the larynx and suffocate it. Again there would be little evidence of this unless closely inspected. Look at the leg bones when you go back for sign of canine teeth marks, this may indicate that it had been dragged. A coyotes upper canines have about an 1 to 1 and1/2 inch separation, lower about 1/2 inch smaller. There is physical evidence of some sort that will give you answers, unfortunately so much time has passed that this evidence will be harder to come by, but it is still there. As always look for scat.

Original post, nighthunter;

original post, nighthunter;

I think you missed your window of opportunity there but if it was a bear or cat you shouldn't even mess around with it at that point. Both will fight you for that food.

I still tend to believe the sheep was originally hit ( not run over ) by a vehicle. There could be no visible sign of the impact what so ever one would have to look internally for evidence of this or at least very closely. Although the drag marks are intriguing I believe a bear or cat would have got the carcass into the brush ( even if spooked by humans ). Could be a coyote though.

Good luck with your hunt. I certainly hope I am wrong with my speculations I was wrong once before.


Now just to get everyone amped up there is a lady about 12-15 miles north of this general location who had a Bigfoot sighting back in June, I'm not sure how many are aware of this one. It goes like this;

" one early afternoon this past June, I saw (and I still have trouble
believing it myself) what I can only say was a Bigfoot or Sasquatch,
whatever, behind my home, in a heavily wooded, rural area. He was
walking the crest of a ridge behind us. He was clearly silhouetted
on the ridge, with no trees or anything behind him as he passed from
one group of trees to another. My Boxer dog saw him too. We were
viewing him from my office window. I waited, along with my dog,
staring at the spot where we last saw him step behind a tree, he
never came out on the other side, so he didn't continue up the ridge,
but rather, turned down and away from the ridge to the small ravine
below, which was logged just two years ago. After about 15 or 20
minutes of just staring out at the area, I finally let the dog out to
the backyard and only then did he begin to bark, as he ran to the
fence and continued to stare up at the ridge. For several days
after, the dog would look to the same spot out the window, every time
he came into my office. Even now I catch him looking up to the spot
where we saw BF when he is out in the yard, and lifting his nose to
catch a scent (it seems to me).

I still can't help staring up at the same area myself, every time I
come in here or when I am in the yard. But two weeks ago, toward
evening, I heard some sounds I have never heard before. I have been
reading up on the web, and what I heard was similar to the hollow
sort of clucking of two bamboo poles, it had a funny echo, sort of,
but it got an answer, and then a sort of a cry out, not a cry of pain
or fear, but rather almost a call of relief. There are no trees from
the area to rub together, or I might have dismissed the sounds to
them, (remember I said it was logged off?) these were sounds from
something alive. From the same area around the ridge that runs
behind our property in the Willapa Hills. The life that could
project a sound such as this had to have some powerful lung or
breathing capacity. "

I will add that I talked to her on a couple of occasions and find her demeanor quite soothing and credible. Never did I lead her with questions I simply let her tell her stories and to be quite honest I personally believe that there has been some serious activity of some sort in that area in the past.

She was not willing to give up her location at the beginning since it happened at her house which she runs a business out of, who can blame her ( Psycho Bigfoot Hunters running around, in general nighthunter, not you ). So I had to do a little bit of detective work. Anyway I dialed it in and gave my guess a shot. Here is a couple of our original private contact e-mails after I found her business webpage ( you gotta love the Internet! ). I will say it's in the Elk Prairie area.

" ( deleted ),

Thank you. I know how it is when something like this happens, it flies in the face of all you know to be true. You start to doubt yourself yet you know what you've seen. I've included a pic for you there is no need to reply if it is close to right area. I realize it has been logged since this photo.
Thanks again and good luck with all. Steve
P.S. Maybe if it returns or you hear any locals mention of it you could give me a heads up? "

" Hi Steve;

Yes, I live on that hill, on the corner of ( deleted ). We are
1 mile south of ( deleted ), toward ( deleted ). We are just north of mile
marker ( deleted ) off of ( deleted ). We are surrounded by big herds of Elk, and
evidently BF too. My husband has heard and seen BF prints up here and
to the north toward the Olympic mountains. Honestly, about 5 years ago,
when we discovered that I have severe osteoporosis, I reassured my
husband that I wasn't ready to die yet, I hadn't seen the BF. If I
really thought I would ever have seen one, I would have told him a
Pterodactyl or something I was more sure of NOT seeing!!!!

Thanks for your interest. "

Nighthunter/callidus if you want to e-mail me I can get more specific with details/location and possibly hook you guys up. Anyway good luck and do not let my analytical/reasoning comments get you down. I'm just a process of elimination kind of guy with Bigfoot being at the far end.

mangler, thanks for the feed-back. understand all, just the simple fact that it was gone in minutes. yeah it was the 1st week of hunting season, but no vehicles passed us when we moved the truck. also NO drag marks. we are looking for the hook up, i think we are SE of that ladies sighting. we are working that area and next trip will go nrth of our area now, and then wst. towards Willapa Hills??? thank u- jacob

Thank you Mangler for your help, i am not totally sure what animals live in the area and my tracking and woods skills are not on the animal varity yet, it is taking time, and any more i just want to take the sheeps skull, hopefully the maggots will have it cleaned for me the next time i return. any ways... from the general area of the bf report we are to the SE of it. but we will be back out there contuining the hunt. now a couple of questions i have is anyone have any idea of a range BF ould have, like ever a estimate of how far they could walk in a day and an area of habatit they live in? also we are having issues with the logging companies up there, all of the roads are gated off and what not, i mean i have blown open and broken locks and gates before but i would rather not here is there any way any one knows about like contacting the company to walk around out there or even getting updated maps with all the roads and area that have been clear cut? we are trying to update our maps as we go but it is not the easiest thing to do it the world. the logging company up there before i foret is the cathalmet(sp?) logging co.

Callidus;

For info. try Mark Oergel who is the area manager ( or at least was last time I checked ) of Pacific West Timber and Cathlamet Timber Co. in Cathamet. His e-mail is; moergel@campbellgroup.com Phone is: (360) 795-3221. There is an outside possibility he may share his access to updated maps. If not I would suggest finding a log crew and become a " good ol boy " most guys would be more than happy to mark what they know on a map, especially around quitting time. Bring cold beer ( cold beer or whiskey has never failed me in the woods ). I strongly advise against screwing with these peoples gates though. They ( the loggers ) have had some heavy issues with tree huggers down there and do not take kindly to outsiders, who mess with them . Remember you are not dealing with Simpson or Weyerhaeuser here, use whiskey and beer at the end of the day and do not bring up Bigfoot till a few beers are down. Been there, done that. Once you get passed the piss and vinegar you may find a wealth of information, most those guys are pretty decent folk.


Nighthunter; check your e-mail or fourm messages.

nevermind

Thanks Mangler, we were thinking about this but were not totally sure it would work, beleive it or not talking is nighthunters area and he is pretty good at it. next time we will have to load up a cooler and see if we can find some loggers and chat them up. we are pretty far from tree huggers so hopefully that will work to our advantage. and for all of you whom didin't know nighthunter and i recently returned from Mosul Iraq a few weeks ago and we are Infantrymen.

From the "For what it's worth" department...
We had a deer we killed with a bow, found by coyotes before we could recover it...the Deer was shot at about 6 pm, but by the following 7 AM(13 hours), it had been drug/carried nearly 300 yards from it's point of death(estimated due to the ammount of blood/fir), and completely(and I mean, completely), dismemberd and devoured by coyotes. The remains were scattered over an area of perhaps an acre.
I am sure that the initial movement/drag did indeed happen in minutes, as with this sheep.

Coyotes are pack hunters. I'm sure two of them together could lift a carcass and carry it off leaving no drag marks. Did ya check for yote tracks?



I sincerely thank you for your service to our country, but I don't see how that's relevant. It pains me to say that--I have tremendous respect for our armed forces.

Nighthunter and Callidus,

I want to thank you guys for sharing this information with us and I hope you continue to tell us what's going on with your investigations. I find your posts very interesting.

I also thank you for your service to our country. I don't know what sort of extensive training you guys went through that may help in your investigation, but the fact you got in and out of Iraq intact is pretty impressive to me.

This is a message board for better or worse and everyone has an opinion. Take of it what you can use and don't worry about the rest.

T

nighthunter+callidus,, Welcome back to the world guys!!! Don't look the same no more does it??? Thanks For Serving Our Country!!!

Crew Chief

To All, us being in the military and doing what we do is not special and does not give us and special powers, we have just spent a good deal of time in the woods and have the ablity to talk to people from all over the country who have hunted everywhere, as for why i posted that a question was asked about going through gates and such and i said we had experience in that sort of thing, no harm no foul. we are all here looking for our big hairy friend no more no less

What about something else - like a coyote, cougar, etc. moving the sheep, but bigfoot being active in the area anyway. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that a bf would have left the sheep alone and observed the situation for a longer period. Another animal could have moved the sheep to prevent you or bf or other animals from stealing it from them. Maybe the print and the sheep are not directly related? Keep working! Thanks for serving our country!

Excerpt from "Wildlife Times":

"While observing the 3 distinctive sets of bear tracks and in which direction they exited, we noticed that two legs of the deer carcass had trauma breaks, most likely from our mamma bear depressing them while feeding..."

A. A possible explanation of the broken leg

B. Are there bear species other than Black bears in that area? (Dunno if a Black bear would be heavy enough to pressure break a leg bone)

C. The specific explanation still doesn't explain the broken neck, most likely, a pressure break to the neck wouldn't happen while a bear was feeding, although a swat would do it...

I'm not trying to trying to dispute anything, just adding my 2 cents.

the question of coyotes killing animials bigger than they are is a perplexing one. they both hunt in packs and alone.we have all seen wolves taking down bull elk. obviously they keyd on the elk probably to age and or illness. they take yearling all the time. coyotes can also take such large animals under the right circumstances. coyotes also are scroungers and opprotunists. if they found a carcus they would eat or drag away. big cats will carry their food also.i have been predator calling and had coyotes come in full blast to the speaker all by them selves and in small groups. it is usually a young or old male alone but any animal can be ran out of the pack.i just want to add as has been said just because the reason isnt hitting you in the face dosent mean its bigfoot. we have to be extreemly carefull to not call things bigfoot related. infact we have to be overly particuler in investigating and ruleing things out. if you cant positively rule stuff out then you cant call it bigfoot either.if you found 16 inch foot prinst leading up to and away than you might be able to say bigfoot.also with the tree breaks and twists you should be looking for other corrobrating evidence. something big and hairy dosent walk up to a tree reach up and twist a lumb off anf not leave hair and such around. maybe they can do it cleanly once and a while but not every time.i add this to say we in this feild have to overly prove our selves. we can banter back and fro all we want but to say its bigfoot related we have to rule out other stuff or its just talk.we live in an uneven playing field. some ass can take a picture and say i saw it and wala they have a previously extinct wood pecker alive and well. this is based on one eye witness and one photo. we have mounds of the same kind of evidence and are laughed at.so become a you have to prove it to me kind of investigator. learn how to interview and collect evidence so when you present stuff your methods dont destroy your message out of the gate. it may not be fair but it is the rules of the game we play and we have to play it or let go of the search.

Totally agree Chris! Great post!

A large black bear(at least here in Michigan), can easily top 500 lbs. We've had a few top 700. So yep...plenty big enough to bread a bone just by stepping on it.
The neighbor to our hunting lease had a smallish (600 lb) whiteface steer taken by coyotes earlier this month....it was as the deer I mentioned, pretty much dismemberd when he found it.