hi all- well trip i planned for a year wasnt all i wanted it to be but we had a couple of things happen that were really weird. We got up there about 11am, changed and started moving on the route i chose. We drove around for 4 hrs before we came across a sheep that was visible along the forest service road. The only thing was, it was dead, chunks of its wool had been pulled out and in two piles(weird) u could see where something had crossed the road(slide marks) on the embankment east of the sheep carcass. I got the tag# of the sheep and we moved the truck(hunters everywhere) so we wouldnt clog up the road. We moved about 80 meters up the road, got the game cameras ready(15mnts total) and walked down to the sheep. When we got to where the sheep was, it was gone. No hunters had traveled on that road when we moved the truck, we would have seen them. We looked for any kind of tracks(bear, cougar,etc..) couldnt find any. We did see where something had made a disturbance in some of the vegetation, so we walked in that general direction. We came to a clearing, so we backtracked and couldnt tell if anything had moved in any direction. So we set up a game cam anyway and drove down to the valleys that are in that area to see if any ranches or homes had sheep, didnt see any so we drove up to an area that had a sighting. We plotted a route from there up nrth to some fish hatcheries and found an area to camp through the night. The area we camped was NW of the sheep carcass. We thought this would be ok, since we were between the sighting and the sheep carcass. That night, something circled the camp when i was cooking chow. Not sure what it was but we heard it on a few occasions. Also before dusk i was chopping kindling for the fire when i caught some movement near a game trail, a branch about 6ft off the ground moved. It was like something brushed by it as it walked by. I didnt see anything for sure, but i kept an eye on that area as i was preparing the fire. There were no incidents that night. We woke up, checked around the vehicle(we raked at the ground before we went to sleep), but found no prints. We ate, and walked to a clearing that looked over the %$*#* Rvr Divide. We had some ponchos that are in some ways like a ghile suit, they can be pulled over ur entire body and camoflauge u entirely(they are great for clear cuts) we spent 3hrs in our hides but saw nothing. The rest of the days were spent breaking brush, and finding hides to spend a few hours in. It was a great time. Lesson learned, when find something questionable(sheep) leave someone there, just in case. We picked up our game cams, no sasquatch. There's allways next time.

No drag marks at all where something dragged the sheep off ?
Also could you tell how long it had been laying there at all ?
Like was a pool of blood left after it was gone ?
Was the hair still there that you had seen before ?
Was the truck out of sight of the sheep at any time when you moved it ?

That is interesting that you seen a sheep but could not find where it came from. Makes you wonder if the sheep had run off and was killed at that spot or if it was killed some place else and carried there and dropped for some reason. Chances are if it was a farmer just getting rid of a dead body they would have at least taken the tag off of it.

A predator will pull the hair out to get it out of the way a lot of times before eating. That could have been the reason for the piles of hair. They pulled a clump out and spit it out in them piles. But I would think that if they carried it off from some place else that they would find a better place to eat it then beside a road. That makes me think what ever killed it left it there and something else came alone and started getting ready to eat it when you scared them off.

michan- no drag marks. and yes, small pool of blood. and we were out of sight of the sheep when we moved the truck. also, not sure why a rancher would haul a sheep all the way up there to dispose of the body(we were 12 to 15 miles from the nearest ranch or farm or home) not sure what took it, just know that whatever did, in my opinion, carried it off. why? no drag marks, we could have followed that.

Interesting to say the least. Do you plan on returning to the area?

DTK

yes i do plan on going back. i am laying some bait in an area that i looked into when i was there, near a marshy area. it is right before the *&%$# Rvr divide and 3 valleys. i think it is a cross over spot or an area to seek shelter. not sure, just a thought. i will also spend parts of my leave down there. sometime in early dec. maybe 4 days total. i have some great cammo i came across in the supply office while i was in iraq i am documenting where all the clear cuts are and what kind of terrain is in between them. i think these clear cuts and the terrain will help me guesstimate a route. will keep everyone informed. thanks

Here are the sheep pics from the trip. As you can see from the eyes there are no maggets or anything else that suggest it was there long, also it looked like its neck was broken. And any info people get on the tag would be welcome, if anyone would like a general area where we were i would be more then happy to help but you have to remember it is kinda like having a good fishing hole you dont just want to go and give it away to anybody.

here is a further out pic of the sheep, you can see the piles of wool, i kinda kicked them around a bit but you can see what we found,

Do you have an after pictures? Where the animal was down?

mel

had it rained? The animal looked uniformly wet like either it had rained or it had been dragged or rolled around on the ground at some point. Since the fern leaf is bent down from the sheep's leg atop it, and from the position of the legs looks like possibly it was carried by the hind legs and the leg landed on the fern frond bending it down. How close did yall get to the sheep? Looks like a couple of mashed down areas of grass near the sheep perhaps from your footprints? The grass is protruding outward from the body at the back of the sheep like it was dropped there either from the fern side or dropped straight down. It doesn't look like it was dragged toward the fern or the grass would be underneath the animal instead of sticking outward. It also doesn't look like it was dragged from the fern side or the fern leaves would be disheveled, or at least that's my opinion with an untrained eye so I'm just speculating here. It does look like the animal spent some time laying or being rolled in the grass somewhere, because there's grass debris on top of the animal. The bottom of the tag is pointing toward the tip of the animal's ear indicating at least to me, that the head was in a downward position having been picked up or dragged by the other end causing the tag to swing toward the tip of the ear which is also in a forward position. Just my two cents. Interesting find.

Here's where your sheep came from. How far was the dead sheep from it's home? http://www.frost-king.com/dorpers.htm Looks like they use Rotts to herd/guard the sheep. It doesn't look like a meat type farm as opposed to raising pedigreed sheep for judging. You might give them a call and see if they've lost any more sheep and if they've seen the culprit. They also might want to know where 505 went and tell you what sort of fencing was used and where the sheep was when it went missing so you can investigate from that end of things as well. I'd be really surprised if the owners of that sheep dumped it where you found it. If by chance they had sold the sheep they should be able to tell you who bought #505 so you can talk to them.

Here's the owner's name and address as listed publicly in the directory of the ADSBS American Dorper Sheep Breeding Society membership directory here: http://www.dorperamerica.org/Membership/nw.asp Since it's in their public directory online I didn't see a problem posting their names and address here.

Pamela Frost & Art King - Frost King
23110 NE Chelatchie Rd., Amboy, WA 98601 USA
Phone: 360.247.6567 Fax:
E-mail: pamela@frost-king.com Web Site: http://www.frost-kingdorpers.com

Let us know what the owners say.

hi teresa arsquatch good morning wow definetly your very welcome for that inportant info im sure it will realy help us all here in this bigfoot forum with our research. those photos of the dead cow mulitlations are very interesting indeed. please keep me posted of any future wa sasquatch activity or evidence etc. maybe you all should show those dead cows photos to animal mulilatation researchers. thanks bill

Thanks Bill. It was really easy to find doing a search for Frost King Sheep and then branching out from there.

It also appears that the Frost King people breed pedigreed Rottweiler's which might explain why they have Rotts working their sheep. As a side note they also have ducks. The font is the same for both the sheep site and the Rott site and both are named Frost King so I'd venture a guess these are the same people.

http://www.frost-king.com/latestandgreatest.htm


Looks like the sheep are kept over by the woodline farthest from their abode, and in their description of the place it sounds like good habitat with Douglas firs, blackberries all the farm animals a predator could want with a creek to boot.

Arsquatch, great job, but you are scaring me.

I'm sure this information is available to everyone... but just how did you find it?

Purty yeller ear tags are helpful.

(Good work T!)

Interesting...

ok first off wow thanksfor the info, from a rough guess it is over 100 miles from their farm, and the roads we are on were nothing but logging roads so it is not too likey that someone bought the sheep and it jumped off or something, and i know from personal experience sheep are dumb so who knows. yeah we did walk around the area a bit first and the prints you see are ours, the weather was rather rainy off and on all day and the location of mr dorper sheep had no over head cover. also you are unable to tell from the pics but it is on a down hill slope going all the way back. and ours guesses at the time were either the sheep was possible fireman carried across the sholders due to the way the tag was and the body postions. this we beleive is because the sheep was rather big, easily 50+ lbs and for a long distance the easiest way to carry something is like that. but i dont think a BF could carry one like that, just the body mechanics of it seem wrong i think it is more likely it was carried under arm and to do that would require alot of upper body strength, i am going to get hold of JT and see what we can out from the owners of the sheep

I googled the name Frost King fom the purty yeller ear tag. since the bottom of the owner's website said they were a member of the ADSBS and had a link at the bottom to their page I just naturally clicked on that too. From there I went to their membership directory and found the owner's name and address. On further looking I found another entry on the google search for "Frost King Rottweiler's" so when I followed that there was another web page that referenced back to the sheep. They even had the map of how the farm was laid out. Even us blondes get lucky every now and then.

Boy..talk about your lost sheep...a hundred miles from home? It might be worth it to you guys to drive that hundred miles and check for tracks from the owner's ranch if they are amicable about it when you talk to them. Sheep are hard on pasture land and you might be able to find a print or two if you're lucky. I can't see a predator not returning to the scene of the crime with it being easy pickings, if the predator indeed took the sheep from the FK ranch. It's also possible the sheep slipped the fence and had wandered quite a ways on its own before a predator grabbed it.

Good luck!

Why would a sheep want to wander off on its own. Sheep like to stay together i.e. the saying 'flock of sheep.'

Sheep don't do things because they want to. They aren't real high on the food chain. I'm guessing you haven't spent much time with herd animals. One of the jobs of the dog is to keep the sheep herded up so none of them wander away. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence and that doesn't just apply to sheep but other domestic livestock too that are thought of as herd animals. They'll go through, over, or under a fence if the opportunity presents itself without consideration to the flock's or herd's whereabouts. Once out being kinda low on the food chain (dumb) they can't figure out how to get back in again most of the time, if getting back in ever crosses their mind.

Aintcha never heard of Little Bo Peep and her lost sheep? There are flocks of birds too but that don't necessarily mean they give a flock about staying together all the time. Your logic is baaaaaaaaad.

two bad jokes and a tired cliche in one post...must be a new record

I disagree with you. A single sheep would not wander off on its own and would stay in relative proximity to the herd unless it's diseased, in which case it wouldn't live long enough to walk the 100 miles to the location it was found in. I don't see it having walked 100 miles on its own.

hi teresa arsquatch your welcome the reply back to me. maybe certain researchers here should go to the location where the mulilated cows were found to see if they can any possible sasquatch evidence.. thanks bill

we found the sheep vic grays river off HW 4 up off one of the valleys around there, and the terrain between the 2 area is as varried as it could be in that part of the state. As for sheep they are dumb, and many a times i have seen one wonder off and get lost for a bit, but i dont think they would go that far and this was up hill in some deep forest, the body was postiond off the road and most likey would not have been found unless you were activly scaning the road sides. i still am unsure totaly what this means.

The sheep may be there on a grazing permit with the forest service. Were there any other sheep that you saw? Or tracks? The forest service issues permits to graze livestock (sheep/cattle) in specific allotments around the forest (except in wilderness areas). Perhaps the Frost King people own one of these permits near the area you were in. The permittee's grazing sheep on the forest in my area (Rockies, W. WY) hire shepherds from S America who ride back into the mountains with a pack string, the herd, and a few dogs and spend all season up there grazing and caring for the sheep. They lose 15 or 20 animals a year to predators like Mountain Lions, Bears, Wolves (yes there are wolves outside of Yellowstone) and Coyotes.

The sheep was sold on 5/31/2005 to someone from Skamokawa which I believe is the same general area as where it was found. The mystery continues. Next!

I also note what looks to be a cardboard box in the photo. Good sign of human activity in the same location. Domestic animals are dumped on forest land all to often. Often dead but manytimes alive. It isn't a surprise to find them. The real question is where did the body go?

This was what I actually said:



I didn't say the sheep wandered 100 miles, in fact in the first sentence When I said talk about your lost sheep, a hundred miles from home? Perhaps I should have added an emoticon like maybe It's also possible somebody could have stolen the sheep. Lots of scenarios I agree unless it was sold to someone from that area or stolen, it's strange for a sheep to get that far from its place of origin. I apologize if it sounded like I meant the sheep strayed a hundred miles. That wasn't my intent.

As to whether sheep wander or not, well one need look only as far as herding dogs for the answer:



However, if that's not sufficient to prove sheep to stray from the flock...

Darned sheep don't know it's against the law to stray: http://www.blaenau-gwent.gov.uk/News/Older...stray_sheep.htm



Not only that but the darned things are a nuisance when they stray:



Lousy straying sheep! http://www.pir.sa.gov.au/pages/agriculture...D=369&tempID=11



Pesky stray sheep ...it's a dirty job but somebody's gotta do it:
http://advance.uri.edu/pacer/may2004/story24.htm



Honest to goodness healthy sheep do wander away from the flock. Hard to believe, I know, but it happens.

I apologize for going off topic to prove a point about sheep behavior.
:surrender:

I can not see why someone who purchesed a breeding sheep would dump it off in the woods. Also we were all around that area and there were no grazing areas, it was nothing but logging roads. no human trails no large game trails or anything like that, addationaly as far as i can tell all of the land all around there is just logging land no national forest or anything like that, so the mystery still remains but it is getting clearer.

I can not see why someone who purchesed a breeding sheep would dump it off in the woods. Also we were all around that area and there were no grazing areas, it was nothing but logging roads. no human trails no large game trails or anything like that, addationaly as far as i can tell all of the land all around there is just logging land no national forest or anything like that, so the mystery still remains but it is getting clearer.

It's definitely interesting Callidus. Maybe the people who bought the sheep could tell you about its disappearance?

At present time with present info I'm going to say that ram was hit by a vehichle and either died on the side of the road or someone laid him there ( or maybe even shot him by mistake ). There is a guy that breeds Black Welsh Mountain Sheep on Oatfield Rd. near Skamokawa Creek 3-4 miles North of town, this is 2-4 miles
( give of take ) South of the Divide. I think odds are that a breeder probably bought that animal and it simply escaped. As far as it not being there after you were set-up the owner, a friend of his or a hunter very possibly could have found him and thrown him in the back of a truck turned around and been out there before your return ( could you see the spot from where you parked? ).

I do not know much about bred/papered ram's of that stock but I do know they are not free ( maybe even insured ). Of course this all speculation on my part. :rolleyes:

Is this the same area Callidus? Alger Truck Rd, Middle Valley Rd, Quarry Creek? Or were you on the North side of the Divide?

How do you know that ?

Has anyone talked to the breeders yet ? or the person who got it from them if someone did ? Without talking to at least the breeder then this story is at a dead end I would say.

I sure hope that the people who started this topic go ahead and finish it up and keep us informed as this is a interesting one :-)

How can it get any clearer?

Of course it was Bigfoot, what the hell else could it be?

Why worry about eliminating every other possibility? If we are true Bigfoot believers we need to assume that everything unusual has to be Bigfoot (Damn them unbelievers ).

That's just the way it has to be...we know it all and why worry about logic or science? That hasn't helped our cause in anyway, so to hell with it.
We know what we know and to hell with clear thinking, (I prefer it a shade of brown anyway it makes me feel better)

We know we're right. All that other stuff has done is muddle our thinking. We need to stick to our guns and make sure that science and logic crap doesn’t get in the way of our beliefs! After all no one is more right than us believers.

Pass the Kool-Aid and Halleluiah!!!

micahn quote;



Micahn I know because I was in contact with the breeder. Here is her reply;





Although I do not know for sure where Callidus and Nighthunter where I have a half assed idea that they were somewhere between Hwy 4 and the Gray's River/Gray River Divide. Which oddly enough puts an American Black Welsh Mountain Sheep Farm half way between Skamokawa/Hwy 4 and the Divide, that is not speculation. Although it is very possible that this is not the farm that bought the Ram there are many, many sheep in that area.

I speculate that it is much more logical to believe that the ram died at the hands of man :blacknblue: rather than The Big Guy. Why you ask? Well I'll give you my opinion. If I was a Bigfoot and had a nice juicy sheep under my arm that I had been packing around with me I sure as s#$t would not set it down by the side of the road no matter what was going on. No way, No how. But hey, who know's. Again it's all speculation on my part.

Mmmmmm, Kool-Aid. :notworthy:

Here is the Skamokawa Breeders info if anyone cares to contact them;

Alcyon Farm
140 Oatfield Road
Skamokawa, WA 98647
(360) 795-8009
aceasp@pacifier.com

If it was found by the road the logical answer to me would be that it was hit by a car and the impact from that either tossed it where it was or it laid down there to die.

The interesting question is where did the body go in the time it took to park the truck and walk back?

arsquatch- thanks for the help we are working on a route now, based on terrain, that shows how the sheep got to that point. of course the route we will be working on is one that would be a walked on foot. if anyone on the forum from washington has some time plz let me know so we can cordinate a larger group search, to cover more ground. thanks again arsquatch for the :help:

to all- we dont think it was hit by a car. the animal wasnt covered in dirt or mud. there were no skid marks, their were no marks on the sheep that indicated it was run over or even hit.

Glad I could help.

one other thing. there were a couple of areas that we wanted to investigate but were turned around because roads were closed off by logging companies. anyone know how to get permission from them, or do we just trespass for the good of the cause?? i am not afraid to bend the rules. also, i am reaching out to all WA. researchers. we need to get togther and cordinate a mass search. i have a large group plan, just need help. if intrested let me know and i will send u my plan. thank u- nighthunter and callidus

NightHunter, I'm in Clark County Washington (Actually I think the Frost's are or at one time were customers of mine) regardless, if you need any manpower go ahead and e-mail me with your plan. I've been doing some poking around in the area for a while but nothing concrete, and just got back on here the past couple days after not having the net for a while and found this. Not sure on the permit thing, I think you could talk to the county and get one. I forget what county Skamokawa is in, but I think it's Lewis right?

-KW
-Humbly embarressed that odd activity is going on in basically his backyard without his knowledge.