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rockinkt
QUOTE(lookoutman7 @ Dec 18 2005, 07:33 AM)
QUOTE(rockinkt @ Dec 17 2005, 05:47 PM)
I must be missing something.
Absolutely nothing in your post indicates this experience has anything to do with a large hairy bi-pedal creature.
Why do you choose to speculate it could be Sasquatch related when it is far more likely that it was another known animal? 
No offence - but how do you rule in Sasquatch and rule out known animals, ghosts, goblins, space aliens, and the Wicked Witch of the West?
Shouldn't we have some basis for our speculations?

Rockinkt-

Are you missing something - I don't know? Let's try the basis for the
speculations. We'll try the process of elimination.

sierra4
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Re: Strange Happenings In N.W. Montana...
« Reply #7 on Aug 5, 2005, 10:05am »

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Looking at the visual presentation, ...thanks Gerry.... there is no adequate way to block the staircase up to the catwalk that appears to surround the tower from any animal I can think of that has a mind to climb them......

I know of no bear or predator feline that would have a curiosity about the lock on the first-floor door. No bear or cougar is going to negotiate those stairs unless there is a food source there, they follow their noses. You can almost certainly rule them out.

A cougar might be following a game trail of mule deer that goes through the base of the lookout building, but if it was a cougar, I am certain you wouldn't hear it, they stalk with too much stealth. A bear might follow the game trail too, they are clumsy oafs, but I seriously doubt you would hear a bear moving around and if you did, the sniffs, snorts and grunts give its identity away. Same with a wolverine, they do make a racket and they vocalize their displeasure clearly.

If it was a sasquatch, the staircase is no problem. Given the height of some of those reported in that area, and assuming that basement door is about standard height of six and a half feet high, the sasquatch at shortest is probably 7 1/2 to 8 feet tall or better with an arm reach of three and a half to four feet up....if it were to stand on that concrete platform at the base of the building, the sasquatch would have no problem reaching up to the catwalk and hoisting himself up if that were its inclination.

There is no reason to be afraid of them, they aren't going to terrorize the building because you're there, they probably watched it being built anyway and it just another curious intrusion into their domain.

You might borrow or pick up some night vision gear at the local war surplus store just for the berries of it, at least you can see what they look like first hand without disturbing them. In this day and age, I can't imagine anyone being in the woods without some level of nite vision anyway.........military surplus is affordable and it makes sense.

Thanks for an interesting Story Glen, I will add it to the next issue of the bigfoot newsletter online....

Bobbie Short


From Lookoutman-

That being said, there are only a limited amount of things that can tamper with
a padlock on a door that is on a raised concrete walk. In connection with this
alone happening, the following day prints or tracks were looked for in the
immediate area of the Tower. My wife's prints were in the area, as well our son's.
My print was also present. The deer that visited, their tracks were there. But what
hung around during that one night, for almost two hours, there was nothing. It
(or they) seemed to stick to the rocky surfaces mostly. That would take some
thought on their part.

That same night, the beer bottle that I had mentioned in the report was moved
aside. It was picked up, and placed between two rocks. In the same period, what
made that upwards jump of approximately four feet - when it came down, there
was a solid plant of footing, not a staggered shuffling of a number of feet or
hooves. The creature was heavy - heavy enough to cause a slight vibration that
we felt. This ruled out a man in this instance, as it would have taken three or
four of them to perform the jump. I don't think you or I could make that happen.

In the same period of time, something was outside moving rock. They also
moved around the Tower numerous times. But then came the 'whistle.' This was
just after something cleared it's throat or what I called a gargle of sorts. This
was enough as well, to eliminate the possibility of it being a number of creatures
in the forest. That whistle came on a delay of movement.

To make sure it wasn't the human animal, we checked the entire area as I said,
the next morning. There were no prints on the road, and nothing found. You would
think, that in two hours something would leave a track. We left shoe prints just
taking supplies to the stairway from our vehicle. If it was a moose, bear, cat, or
a number of other wilderness creatures, there would have been a possible print.
As for your ghost, goblin, space alien, and wicked witch - we all know the
Investigator who'll gladly endorse such things - I have no interest in that
direction, the paranormal end of it. (There was no anal probe found anywhere in
the vicinity.)

Unless there is a special breed of new animal in the forest, that is why the
Sasquatch is being speculated upon. Even the smell, and the scream of Friday
evening, houses the possibility. And out of curiosity in researching the area
after our visit, there was possible activity in the past, something that can be
pondered as well.

That's all I have...

"I know of no bear or predator feline that would have a curiosity about the lock on the first-floor door. No bear or cougar is going to negotiate those stairs unless there is a food source there, they follow their noses. You can almost certainly rule them out.
A cougar might be following a game trail of mule deer that goes through the base of the lookout building, but if it was a cougar, I am certain you wouldn't hear it, they stalk with too much stealth. A bear might follow the game trail too, they are clumsy oafs, but I seriously doubt you would hear a bear moving around and if you did, the sniffs, snorts and grunts give its identity away. Same with a wolverine, they do make a racket and they vocalize their displeasure clearly."


Absolutely false information.
Bears do not always follow their noses. They are curious and will look everywhere for food. Bears play with locks, door knobs, and door hooks. They also play with chains on gates and wooden bars to open other said gates. Seen it done many times. Also lanterns left hanging, ropes, axes, fire extinguishers on heavy machines. You name it - they will play with it. Are old rubber tires a source of food? What about barrels of diesel??
I have shot bears off of second floor sundecks of abandoned houses in a mining ghost town where the company was getting PO'd with the damage these bears were doing. No food sources for at least 15 years. They did not fly up there.
You can certainly rule bears in as a very possible source of your problem.

Where in the heck do you get the idea that bears are clumsy oafs???????????
Ever see a bear actually stalk something? I have. Me. More than once. I have also interviewed people who have survived predatious bear attacks. If you don't believe me - read Sheldon or Herrero before you go off making such obviously false statements. As to sniffs, snorts and grunts giving it away - you are sorely mistaken if you think you will always hear such things with bears around your camp.

Cougars have been known to break into buildings and certainly they are not using a key - therefore they will make noise. Cats are curious. Shot a cougar on a golf course that was playfully batting at the flag on hole #3.

When was the last time you saw a wolverine in the wild??????
Did you observe it long????
Again - you are wrong.

Disney or the Discovery channel is not the place to get your info.

Due to rarity and other habits - I would not expect a cougar or a wolverine to have caused your noises - but you cannot rule out such animals if they are known to be in your area.

That being said - there are far more likely animals than Sasquatch making the noises you heard.

Heck - I wouldn't even rule out pack-rats or squirrels. There are small - but they make noise that may seem much louder when your senses are heightened by fear.

"There were no prints on the road, and nothing found. You would
think, that in two hours something would leave a track."


Yes I would. So...explain to me why a Sasquatch wouldn't.
Of course - you may have little knowledge or experience in tracking animals and just missed what others would see as obvious signs. I don't know the reason YOU did not see tracks - that does not mean that there were no track marks made.
Of course - you could be experienced and might have expected to see any such sign.
Still, I see no relationship between no tracks and sasquatch.

"But then came the 'whistle.' This was
just after something cleared it's throat or what I called a gargle of sorts. This
was enough as well, to eliminate the possibility of it being a number of creatures
in the forest."


How does it eliminate bear, human, or other animals? You are describing a sound you heard. It may have had absolutely nothing to do with a throat of any animal. Have you the knowledge and experience to eliminate it from a sound a bear might make? What about a deer burping?? Hey - what about a human clearing it's throat? How do you know that the whistle and the other sound came from the same animal - or even the same type of animal??? There are numerous animals out and about at the same time in the bush. Or where they were in relationto each other if you were not observing them. Sounds are sometimes very tricky to accurately locate in the bush.

When using the process of elimination - eliminate using the facts - not using wishfull thinking or false/ill-conceived information.

edited for punctuation and spelling
paysonfear
Here I go, not speaking for LOM7 again...BUT...I don't believe that he is a wildlife biologist. Like he said in the beginning...he went out for some R&R, and experienced some weird stuff. This is a Bigfoot forum, not Discovery Channel. He had obviously had some inclination to believe that it may be one or more Sasquatches. I can appreciate that you, Rockin, are taking a comprehensive approach to saying that it could have easily been another type of animal or whatever. But, I can also see how most people that are familiar with Sasquatch would be led to believe that the possibility was, in fact, a Bigfoot. Call me stupid, and with all due respect, if the overall experience was exactly how LOM7 described, and I was in his shoes at the time, I wouldn't be thinking Wolverines or Pack Rats.
lookoutman7
Rockinkt-

You may like to try speaking for me, but I'm not interested in trying it for
you. -You have another idea of it of course, and some of those things are
exactly why this was posted at a place like this...a Public Forum. You've
been in the woods, so have I, so have others. And if they want to come,
like you and I, and add options and experience into the possibilities, then
that will be respected as well. There were many Researchers that I discussed
this with over time, and the Sasquatch fit into the category as well, it being
one of four creatures that could have made a presence. In fact, it fit near
the top of the list.

I've explained it, exactly how it unfolded those nights. I don't have to use
bold print, and other means, to give the reader the information of our visit.
They will read your posts as well, and make an educated guess on what may
have occurred up there. You've given them something else to think about, as
has others that have tackled uncertain things in the past. I can appreciate
their insight into this as well, experiences that they've shared.

As with most things with the Sasquatch, things are divided on all fronts. I've
got nothing else to add to this. But if you do, you're more than welcome to
highlight the pages with your expertise and ideology.
rockinkt
QUOTE(lookoutman7 @ Dec 19 2005, 07:24 AM)
As with most things with the Sasquatch, things are divided on all fronts. I've
got nothing else to add to this. But if you do, you're more than welcome to
highlight the pages with your expertise and ideology.

The only division I have seen on this board is between the romantic believers seeing Sasquatch in every sound they hear without looking - and those others who are researching with an open mind looking for actual evidence.

What ideology are you referring to?
rockinkt
QUOTE(paysonfear @ Dec 19 2005, 06:34 AM)
Here I go, not speaking for LOM7 again...BUT...I don't believe that he is a wildlife biologist. Like he said in the beginning...he went out for some R&R, and experienced some weird stuff. This is a Bigfoot forum, not Discovery Channel. He had obviously had some inclination to believe that it may be one or more Sasquatches. I can appreciate that you, Rockin, are taking a comprehensive approach to saying that it could have easily been another type of animal or whatever. But, I can also see how most people that are familiar with Sasquatch would be led to believe that the possibility was, in fact, a Bigfoot. Call me stupid, and with all due respect, if the overall experience was exactly how LOM7 described, and I was in his shoes at the time, I wouldn't be thinking Wolverines or Pack Rats.

Not calling anyone stupid.

IMHO - he experienced exactly what kids camping out their backyard experience.
Overactive imagination and a willingness to interpret every natural sound to something unnatural.

Happens all the time.

I know exactly what this forum is.
That is why I am pointing out factual errors and asking for something tangible that could explain why Sasquatch is even considered as a real possiblity for this event.

Wolverines were not brought up originally by me. Why they were brought up I can only speculate - but I would strongly suggest that it was just another straw man argument made to bolster the idea that it was more likely a Sasquatch than any other animal. I certainly have seen woverines in the wild - but they are the last thing I would attribute any sound in this instance based on their inherent shyness and rarity. Any experienced outdoorsman would only think wolverine if there was some physical sign that they were around at that time.
Of course - that is the same I would expect with Sasquatch. If there was something tangible - a track, a fleeting glimpse, a specific history of recent activity in the area - I might be more willing to consider that it could possibly have been a Sasquatch.
Without anything like that - this is just a "bump in the night" story.
Shauni
One thing was for sure in this entire night's event -- it was the same animal in that two-hour visit.
There would not be another creature present at the time, or another taking over. And the same
animal, if just the average creature of the forest was there, could not do all what occurred. This
does eliminate certain forest dwellers. It narrows it down quite a bit. Like others here, many of us
have spent a great deal of time in the wilderness -- some deeper than others. As an example, I'm
interested in this subject, because no tracks were left by the visitor over a two-hour period. Brings
up possibilities. Interesting!
Teresa
Actually, I wouldn't rule out that it may have been two animals such as bears, mother and older cubs out looking for something to eat. When the mother stopped rattling around, the cubs (if that's what it was) could quite conceivably take their mother's initiative and rattle around as she was doing. It's all a learning experience to them. I'm not saying that's what it was, but there are animals that travel in pairs or more and could have been out and about. Also re no food being around, there are some bears who think of humans as food such as those being fed at campsites (Treadwell) et cetera. Because there was no food brought to the tower doesn't mean an animal such as a bear wouldn't see a human as a tasty snack if they could just figure out how to get them out of that box. LOL

I have not read this entire thread, I'm coming in late on it so I won't post more than I have since it would be an uninformed post.
Shauni
Arsquatch-- note taken.

There looks like there were two of the same type of animals there -- could have been is my guess. But
throughout the postings, there is mention, that no other tracks could be found. Almost two hours of
fiddling around, and no indication of a visitor. That's what I found strange. The same animal(s) would
have to have played with the lock on the door, made a huge jump, and also whistled. It's different.
FanofSquatch
Lookoutman, This is one of my favorite reads! I like it because it is heavy on the "fear of the unknown." It is a real experience that you had and are relating it to us,people can speculate as to what it was or was not until they are blue in the face, I just like the story and look forward to reading about your next one.
Shauni
Ole Sarcastic Me-- We'll use a (take a number) process. Not calling anyone stupid!--

wood knocks................A Wood-Pecker
scream........................The New Coyote
smell...........................A Skunk
playing with lock...........A Bear
moving beer bottle........A Pack-Rat
moving rock.................A Deer
jump............................A Cougar
whistle..........................A Bird
sharp shale objects........A Human

--Please feel free to juggle any of the above.

Holy Smokes -- there was a lot of animals up at that location during those times.
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